Oral history interview with Briana Brake, 2022

Erin Lawrimore:

Today is Monday, October the 10th, 2022. We are at Spaceway Brewery in Rocky Mount, North Carolina. To start, can you please say and spell your name?

Briana Brake:

Sure. I'm Brianna Brake, B-R-I-A-N-A B-R-A-K-E.

Erin Lawrimore:

Awesome. I'm Erin Lawrimore here, doing an interview for the Well Crafted NC Project. To start, let's track things way back. Tell us a little bit about where you're from and the road that brought you here.

Briana Brake:

Born and raised in Durham, North Carolina. Been brewing. I started out brewing in North Carolina, in Durham, as a hobby, back in ... Gosh, it's been almost 10 00:01:00years ago.

Erin Lawrimore:

Wow.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. At the time, I was laid off from my job, looking for work. I needed something to do with my hands while I was at home. I had been going around and noticing all these craft breweries were popping up in the area, and I thought they were cool. I liked going and tasting the different beers and seeing how each different brewery had their own thing going on, even with their environment, but also just the ... You could tell different brewers from their beers. I was like, "That's cool."

I learned that I could do that at home, myself, and I was like, "Oh, okay. Maybe I can make something that tastes better than what I'm getting out here." I got obsessed with it and ended up ... I was in law school for a while, and decided-

Erin Lawrimore:

In Durham?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, I was going to NCCU during the evening program, and then I was working at Duke Law School during the day. I was like lawyers all around me all the time, and I thought that's what I wanted to do. Then I realized, "Yeah, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be a lawyer." Like I said, I'd become obsessed with the whole brewing thing. My kitchen was just brewing equipment and new stuff I found on Craigslist and all that kind of stuff. I said, "Well maybe I need to find a way to do this thing professionally. Is that even possible?" Then I'm like, "There's nobody out there that looks like me, doing this. Am I crazy? How can I do this?" I start talking to people, and they're like, "Oh that's cool." Trying to get bank loans and stuff like that, and they're like, "Your background is law and computer science. What are you talking about?" I'm like, "No, taste 00:03:00this." They're like, "Yeah, nah."

Fast forward to, I guess, it was 2016, '17, I learned about the Rocky Mount Mills. I was actually at an event in Durham. I'm not sure if you remember the article. I had this idea for a brewery in my head. I got invited to come do a brewing demonstration at ... it was like a brewing class, with Celeste Beatty of Harlem Brewing, at the article. So we did that. At that event, the people from out here, we met with them and they told us about the project and asked if I wanted to come out and do some brewing. I was like, "Yeah, because I've been trying to do this in Durham and I don't have a million dollars," so this is a 00:04:00way to get my foot in the door, be in an area that's like a learning environment, because I'm surrounded by other brewers. It was a no brainer to come out here and start Spaceway.

Erin Lawrimore:

When you first got started, were you starting with just a standard home brew kit?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, just five gallon pots in my backyard and on my stove, and a big 10-gallon cooler. Yeah, that's what I was doing.

Erin Lawrimore:

Do you remember some of the beers you were making then, some of the early ones that you were trying, whether they worked or not?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. The very first thing that I did was awful, and I didn't share it with anybody, but I was proud of it because it was still beer. It just peaked my curiosity, because I'm like, "What did I do wrong, and how can I make it better?" So I did it again and again and again, and then it was what ... Yeah, I 00:05:00have it on draft right now. It's Agent 7 Cream Ale, which is the very first beer that I made, and it's one of my most popular beers now.

Erin Lawrimore:

Wow. That's pretty awesome.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. It's cool to see that people actually enjoy it, like really like it, because I'm like, "Yeah, if you'd been around for that first batch ..."

Erin Lawrimore:

You got to try it all first.

Briana Brake:

Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore:

You mentioned that you were doing the home brewing for a while. Do you remember even before that, how you first got introduced to craft beer, just even as a thing?

Briana Brake:

Like I said, I was going to the breweries. Because, before that, I was drinking Yuengling, and I thought I was doing something different than the people that were drinking in Corona. Then I started going to these breweries, and I'm like, "No, they made this here."

I think the first one that I really started noticing what was going on was 00:06:00Fullsteam in Durham, because you walk in and you see the big tanks and all that stuff. I'm like, "Yo, that's cool. What is that?" I think around at the same time, I was living with one of my best friends. She had a condo. In the back closet where the washing machine and stuff was in the corner, there was this brew kit that a boyfriend had given to her. Of course, it ended up in the closet, because she was like, "What the hell is this?"

But I saw it and I was like, "Ooh, what's that?" So I did do something with that, but it was one of those ... I don't know if you remember seeing it. It's like a little barrel. It's like a clear barrel, and it was disgusting. It was a old kit, too. From that, I started doing my own all grain stuff. Then that first 00:07:00all grain batch was horrible. Like I said, I kept doing it and learning more and more about it. I'm ordering books, watching YouTube videos, doing all that stuff.

I got to the point where I was like, "Oh, this is actually good," and I started sharing it. I noticed friends are coming over two weeks after I told them my brew, because they knew that's about the time it was going to be ready. Maybe one or two would show up on brew day, but most of them was two or three weeks later. They're like, "Hey, what you doing?" But I had five gallons of beer at home that we could drink. I built a kegerator. I'm telling you I got obsessed. I was like, "I want this on draft at home." So I built a kegerator. Bought a little mini fridge off of Craigslist and drill the hole in the top of it. Put 00:08:00some draft lines in there. So we had beer at home. Then from there, I was just like, "Yeah, this is what I want to do. I don't want to go back to law school." Here I am.

Erin Lawrimore:

You mentioned your background before the law school was computer science. Do you see or do you think there was anything from that career that impacted you as you were moving into this new one?

Briana Brake:

Probably. I think I've always been interested in science. I got into computers just because I wanted to know ... I wanted to know how, like is this? But I've always been curious. Before I picked computer science, I think I was going to go into biology. It was going to be some kind of science something. Then I was also interested in law. I find myself, I guess, using that background more now than 00:09:00the computer science stuff, because with computer science, I was doing programming, that type of stuff. I haven't done that in years, but I have to read contracts way more than I thought I would have to.

Erin Lawrimore:

Then you ever thought you were going to have to.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. I was like, "I was trying to get away from this," but now I appreciate that I did go through that, because I learned what to look for and that kind of stuff.

Erin Lawrimore:

Let's talk a little bit about how you got to the point of opening Spaceway. You talked about the Rocky Mount Mill folks approaching you. Can you talk a little bit more about how that went? What was Rocky Mount Mills like when they first were pitching things to you?

Briana Brake:

None of this was here. The mill was here, obviously, because it's been here 00:10:00since 1818, but it was just a shell of a place. It was just a big empty old dusty mill with nothing in it. They're like, "Yeah, we're going to do this here and this." I'm like, "That's sounds cool and I want to be a part of it," because these are the same people that did the American Underground in Durham, and they turned the whole Durham Bulls around, its tobacco warehouses and all that. So I was like, "Okay, I see where you guys are going, and I think this is cool opportunity."

Like I said, they were saying it's an Incubator space, so there's other breweries out here and opportunity to get feedback from other brewers and learn about stuff that I was trying to learn on my own. But to have feedback, that's just been everything. I really like this place. I'm glad I made the decision to 00:11:00come out here and stay out here.

Erin Lawrimore:

When you first got started, was ... Have you always landed on the name Spaceway or did you have other names you went through before you got to this name?

Briana Brake:

When I was in Durham, when I was trying to do it in Durham, it was East Durham Brewing Company, because I was trying to go in the East Durham area. That's where my mom grew up over there. There's not a brewery over there, still not yet. So I was like ... But like I said, I didn't have a million dollars or half a million dollars, so that didn't work out. Then they said come to the Incubator space out here, and I'm like, "Okay, I got to come up with another name," because I'm not going to be in Rocky Mount, talking about East Durham Brewing Company.

Erin Lawrimore:

It's far East Durham.

Briana Brake:

Yeah, very far East Durham. I've always been into music. I love to read. I love poetry. Really, at the time, was into Sun Ra, the musician and composer. He has 00:12:00a song, We Travel the Space Wave. I was always just listening to his music, and he was just in my head all the time. I was at Beer Study in Durham, just walking through the eyes, looking at the different labels, looking at beers. I think, I guess, I was subconsciously thinking about, "Okay, I got to come up with a new name." Then it just hit me while I'm looking at all the beers in Beer Study. It was like, "Oh, Spaceway." It makes sense because Sun Ra is the father of Afro futurism. Afro futurism is about black and brown people seeing themselves as leaders in spaces where we're typically not seen as leaders. I was like, "Well, this industry, you don't typically see somebody that ... a black woman in this 00:13:00space, actually owning and running the operation." So I was like, "Duh. Yeah, Spaceway." It was a way to give a shout out to Sun Ra, because a lot of people come to me now and they're like, "I never heard of Sun Ra, but now I'm going, I'm listening to his music. This guy was amazing." It's because of some beer.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah, that's awesome. If somebody was completely unfamiliar with Spaceway and just saw you wearing that sweatshirt out in public somewhere and said, "What's Spaceway," how would you describe the brewery to them?

Briana Brake:

I guess, I'd say it's a minority-owned woman-owned brewery. We do try to do different stuff. I have a cardamom stout. Most people don't put cardamom in 00:14:00anything, let alone a beer. I'd say if you visit the place, it's a laid back spot, but you might come in and there's a party going on. There might be a band out playing jazz music, or we might have a rap musician out here. We might have a blues funk band. It's going to be, I guess, different from your typical brewery tap room experience. I guess, the games that we'll play, the ... I haven't done a trivia night yet, but if I do, it would probably definitely be different than the typical trivia night. Yeah, I'd say that just the music and the vibe is different. You might come in and the conversation is different than what you're going to get at a typical tap room. People get really political in here sometimes. It's really interesting to just sit back and hear people talk.

Erin Lawrimore:

Interesting. That ties in with another similar question which is, what do you see as the main mission for Spaceway?

Briana Brake:

I guess, to bring awareness of this industry to more women and minorities, that this is something that they could do, to bring more awareness to the big people in the industry, to maybe do a little bit more to attract the minority, the black and brown people, to their establishments. Because I think, before ... and we're still trying to get rid of that myth that black people don't drink craft beer. I'm like, "Well, we do if we can come to a place and where we could find it relatable," because a lot of us just want to go somewhere and feel 00:16:00comfortable and not like you're looking over your shoulder or just not ... to feel welcome, I guess. Just be aware that black people, brown people, do drink beer. We don't just drink malt liquor or Corona or Heineken. We like to try different stuff. I think that's it.

Erin Lawrimore:

Let's talk a little bit about opening Spaceway, like when you first got started. What were some of the challenges that you faced? You talked about the financial part of Durham. Durham's just so expensive everywhere, that I could totally see that. But even once you were here, what were some of the challenges or 00:17:00experiences you faced in opening, that stand out to you?

Briana Brake:

Definitely still the financial thing, because it wasn't free to get out here. It was easier. But, I guess, finding help has been the biggest thing, even now. But in the beginning, finding skilled help at the budget that I'm working at and trying to ... That's been the big challenge, finding skilled, reliable help. Even from the beginning, even before COVID, that's just been difficult just finding people that are ... I have people that come out and they say, "Oh, I'm interested in brewing. I want to do this. I want to do that." Then they come in, and they just want to take selfies next to the tanks. I'm like, "That's cool, 00:18:00but if you don't watch that, the beer is going to boil over and you're going to burn yourself. Or if you don't ..." You can't come in here and take selfies. You can really hurt yourself here doing this.

Erin Lawrimore:

It's an industrial work environment.

Briana Brake:

Yes, this is an industrial work environment. I'm just getting my workers comp set up. Please, don't do that.

Erin Lawrimore:

When you first opened, I know ... and we'll talk a little bit more about this newer space in a bit, but I know when you first got started, you weren't in this space, right?

Briana Brake:

No, I was on the other side of the building, in the actual Incubator space where the brewing equipment and all that stuff is. I had just a little tiny spot where I had draft lines set up and was selling there. But like I said, it was on the other side of the building. It was difficult to get traffic back there. Then 00:19:00COVID hit, so ended up actually moving the tap room to downtown Rocky Mount. I guess, this was 20 ... yes, it was the end of 2021, maybe. No, the end of 2020. That was cool. It was a little small spot at the Bel Air Art Center, but it was really, really tiny. Like I said, COVID was still going on, so people were hesitant to come in because it's a little tight space, and people were already just weary of coming out. I wasn't getting a lot of foot traffic downtown, so I was offered this space. I said, "Well, yeah." It's a much bigger space. There's already the foot traffic at the Rocky Mount Mills, because of everything else that's going on out here. It just made sense to pack it up and bring it back 00:20:00over here. Here I am. I like this spot. It's really, really nice.

Erin Lawrimore:

Even when you were downtown, where you still doing production out here?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, I was still doing production out here.

Erin Lawrimore:

What were some of the beers that you brewed at the beginning? Are a lot of them ... You mentioned the Cream Ale already.

Briana Brake:

Yeah, the Cream Ale, the Agent 7 Cream Ale. That's one of my staples. Then Don Dada Cardamom Stout, that's actually the second beer I brewed. Then I'm got-

Erin Lawrimore:

With the Cardamom?

Briana Brake:

Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore:

Wow.

Briana Brake:

That one actually turned out really good the first time I did it. I was just like, "Okay. I'm going to ..." I did have to scale it up for moving from five gallons to 10 barrels, but that one has always worked out. Then I had the Pirate 00:21:00Jenny Double IPA. Those are the three that I try to keep in rotation always. Then I have a few that I've recently done, that are probably going to make it to the regular rotation. People seem to really like them.

Erin Lawrimore:

We'll talk a little bit more about the beer in a second and making the beer. You mentioned COVID, and it ties in with another question of evolution. How did COVID impact your operations and your production? How does it continue? How did your business evolve through that?

Briana Brake:

Big, almost devastating, almost business-ending impact. Everything was shut down, so I couldn't have customers in and sell them draft beer, which is where 00:22:00you make the most money from selling beer by the pint. I had to shut down and try to figure out, "Okay, well I've got all this beer sitting here. We got to get it out." So I started doing curbside sales of packaged beer to go. Then I was doing online sales for a while. That-

Erin Lawrimore:

Were you packaging anything before that?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, I had just started getting some stuff in some cans. Thank goodness for that. But still, I had all this beer in kegs that was just sitting for months and months, and months, and months. That hurt, because I ended up having to dump a lot of that, because it's old beer. Myself and all my friends could not drink all of that. We tried, and there was just no way. Sadly, I had ... That was a 00:23:00sad day. The beer dumping day, that still hurts just thinking about it.

So that, and then I also had just started hiring people to work in the tap room, and had to let everybody go because there was no tap room. I couldn't afford to pay them, because there was no income coming in. Just had to hold on. Like I said, being able to have that package stuff to go and being able to make some sales online definitely, at least, helped keep it afloat a little bit. Then they had all the government stuff, the PPP and all that stuff. Those things definitely, definitely helped. Because if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you. You might be calling me on the phone like, "I heard 00:24:00you used to have a ..."

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah. I think that's true for a lot of people.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. COVID messed up a lot of businesses, a lot of small business, not just this industry, but restaurants, bars. People just had to shut down. I think a lot of small businesses ... I know myself, we're still recovering from that, still trying to ... But it's way better than ... Things seem more hopeful than they did a year ago, two years ago.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah.

When things first started opening back up again, do you remember? Can you talk a little bit about that and how that felt to know that things were actually starting to open back up again? Was it more of a fear of things opening back up again or just-

Briana Brake:

It was all of that. It was like, "Okay, how do I do this safely? Do people come 00:25:00in and wear a mask, and then they pull the mask up, take sip, pull the ...?" What do you do? Because I don't want to seem like all I care about is making money or whatever, but we got to make money in order to keep the business going. It was just a lot of trying to figure out. It was excitement, because I was like, "Yay, we're finally open," but then you start thinking about it and it's like, no, now you got to figure out how to not get people sick and how to not get yourself sick, and are people even going to come out? For a long time, people still were like, "No," but I did start seeing eventually people would at least come in and grab a four pack to go, or when I was at the downtown spot, they might come in and grab a beer and stand outside and drink it or something 00:26:00like that. But it took a while for things to start feeling, I guess, normal again. That was a weird, scary, scary time.

Erin Lawrimore:

I believe it was May of this year is when the new tap room opened. Is that right?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, I think it was early May.

Erin Lawrimore:

Can you talk a little bit about that? What went into this space? With a little bit of chaos still going on, how did it feel to move into a new space?

Briana Brake:

It felt good because I was like, "Okay, well it's a bigger space, more open." People feel more comfortable coming in. I can do more things in here. I've got books and games. I think the tap room I was in last was about the size of the 00:27:00width of this desk. Like I said, being at the Mill, coming out here knowing that there's already foot traffic and that there's already people that are looking for me because they knew when I was here before, on the other side, so they're ... I'll bring those customers back. It felt good to just be able to get in here and do some stuff that I wouldn't have been able to do downtown.

Erin Lawrimore:

Being here at the Mill, I know there are other breweries here too, and you talked a little bit about that. Can you talk about how that benefits you and what it's like to be in a space where it's like a brewery cluster?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. It's cool, I think. Like I said, I like the fact that I've got access to so many brewers. I can get second, third, and fourth opinions about stuff. Just 00:28:00watching other brewers and how everybody does the same thing differently helps to hone your own skills, and just learning new techniques, new ... Everybody's always like, "Here, tastes this," or, "Smell this." That, I just think it's cool. The guys out here are really helpful. I think I'm older than everybody, so I feel like ... I don't want to say everybody's mom, but like an auntie or something. They're very respectable but funny. I like these guys. It's like little brothers or something, but they all know how to make beer. Sometimes there's that teasing each other like, "I'm going to make a better beer than 00:29:00you." "Nah, this is way better than that crap you just made." I think it's very beneficial to be out here and have that. If something breaks down or if I'm working on the canning line and something happens, and I can't get it going, there's always somebody here that's like, "Oh, I had that same problem. This is what you do." It's definitely been helpful. Learned a lot more than I would have out on my own.

Erin Lawrimore:

That makes sense. In addition to the other folks who are here, can you talk a little bit about some of the resources you've drawn on to grow both as a business owner and a brewer, some of the people or organizations that you lean on?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. I guess, definitely, the Rocky Mount Mills and the whole Incubator and all the help that comes with that, being a tenant out here. But I guess also just my 00:30:00mentors, people that are really believing in what I'm doing. My mom. Yeah, wow. Just advisors. I collect mentors. I collect advisors, anybody that has some insight into any aspect of this. Because I came out here thinking that I was just going to be making beer and I wasn't ... No, dummy. You're running a business now. There's 10,000 parts to that, that I hadn't even considered. So just people out there that are willing to lend a hand or say, "Hey, have you thought about doing it this way? Or have you talked to these people?" It's just a lot of connections that I've been able to make because of being out here, 00:31:00doing what I'm doing, and the attention that I've been getting from the fact that people actually seem to like my beer. People like it, and they want to see me succeed. That's been amazing.

Erin Lawrimore:

You mentioned earlier that one of the folks you worked with very early on was Celeste Beatty. Can you talk a little bit about her and how she impacted you, especially towards those early years?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. I met Celeste in 2016, I think. Like I said, I was a home brewer. A buddy of mine was doing ... she was working with some business school students out at Shaw University. They were doing a program, like a shark tank type thing for the kids. The kids were pitching business ideas to a panel, and I just mentioned to my friend that, "Oh, I heard about this lady, Celeste Beatty. She's a brewer. 00:32:00That's what I want to do. I think she's awesome." I think I said, "I think she went to Shaw." She was like, "What? She went to Shaw? I'm going to call her and ask her to be on this panel." I'm like whatever, just not thinking anything of it.

A month or two later, my buddy hits me up and she's like, "Yo, the panel is today, and Celeste Beatty is here. She's on the panel. Get your ass out here." I'm like, "What? Okay." I hightailed it the Shaw University, met Celeste. It was awesome. A day or two later, she was at my house helping me brew beer.

Erin Lawrimore:

Wow.

Briana Brake:

It was just inspiring getting to know her, knowing that she's one of the only ones in the industry doing this. She was a great inspiration to see, "Okay, yeah. I'm not crazy. There's somebody else out here doing this, and you can do 00:33:00it too." That was awesome.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah. It's a fun story of how to meet somebody in person, too.

Briana Brake:

Right? Yeah. That never happens.

Erin Lawrimore:

No. Let's talk about some of the other collaborations that you've worked on, formal collaborations. We talked actually before we got started filming about Blacktoberfest that Dirtbag in Fayetteville is doing, as well as other folks. But I know you've worked on a number of collaborations like that in the past. Can you talk about some of those?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. I've done the Blacktoberfest beer. Like I said, I didn't make it out there this year, but the past two years, I've been on that collab. I've collabed with Tarboro Brewing Company. We did a strawberry IPA a few years back. That was 00:34:00really good. I'm working on the collab, right now, with Ponysaurus out of Durham. That beer should be coming soon. That's going to be cool. It's purple. I'm excited.

Erin Lawrimore:

Tell me more about your purple beer.

Briana Brake:

It's a sour butterfly pea flower sour. The butterfly pea flower makes it purple.

Erin Lawrimore:

Interesting.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. That's a really, really good one. It's first sour I've ever done. That was cool though, to work with them on that, because they know a little bit more about sours than I do. So I got to learn something from those guys. Doing a collab, actually, for this year's Blacktoberfest, with Chef Ricky from Saltbox Seafood. He just won the James Beard Award. That beer is done and ready to go, I think.

Erin Lawrimore:

What kind is that one?

Briana Brake:

It's a cold IPA. I've only got it on draft right now, but I will have it available at the Blacktoberfest.

Erin Lawrimore:

And it would go good with seafood?

Briana Brake:

Oh, yeah. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, it's really light. Got a lot of grapefruit pineapple notes in there, so that's going to be really good. Recently did a collab with Standard out of Raleigh. We did a Coffee Baltic Porter. I'm excited about that one. It's not quite ready yet. Then a collab that I've just brewed the third beer in this collaboration with the rap group Run the Jewels.

Erin Lawrimore:

I was going to ask about that one if you didn't talk about it.

Briana Brake:

I've done three beers for them. I did a strong ale called All Due Respect. I did a double IPA called All My Life, and just brewed a Altbier that's going to taste 00:36:00like banana bread. That's Oh My Darling. Its name, it's after songs, Run the Jewels songs.

Erin Lawrimore:

How does that collab usually work when you're working with Run the Jewels?

Briana Brake:

Well, you-

Erin Lawrimore:

Do you come up with the ideas?

Briana Brake:

I've come up with the recipes and all that stuff. Then the first two, I got to name them, which is some of my favorite songs off of their second, the Run the Jewels 2 album. That's been cool. I still haven't met El-P and Killer Mike yet, but I've heard that they like the beer. They've asked me to make a third one, so hopefully that means I'm doing something right.

Erin Lawrimore:

One step closer to meet them.

Briana Brake:

Right, right. At some point, I'm going to look up and they're going to be right there.

Erin Lawrimore:

That'd be awesome.

Briana Brake:

That'd be awesome.

Erin Lawrimore:

I know you did a beer, a Farm Aid beer, didn't you? The Honey it says on it.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. That's the beer that I took to Farm Aid, but it wasn't like a-

Erin Lawrimore:

It wasn't just for Farm Aid?

Briana Brake:

No. But it was Tiny Beekeeper. It's a honey saison. I put mixed peppercorns in there and honey that I got from Kanata, North Carolina, which was harvested by kid beekeepers. There's five year olds out there harvesting honey. That's why I called it Tiny Beekeeper, because-

Erin Lawrimore:

That's adorable.

Briana Brake:

... just the idea, just ... I didn't get to see them doing it, but just the image in my head of a little beekeeper.

Erin Lawrimore:

I think it's cool not just that the kids were getting the honey, but that it's local. It's an emphasis on local. Is that something that's important to you, with some of these partnerships and collabs?

Briana Brake:

Yes, it is. That was why that was the beer that I took to Farm Aid. Because it 00:38:00was like, okay, Farm Aid is about farms and local. So I said, "Well, there's at least local honey in here." I try to source as much as I can locally. It's really harder than I had imagined before getting into this, but I thought it was cool to be able to show that they got some really good honey out in Kanata, North Carolina, and there's babies harvesting it.

Erin Lawrimore:

That's awesome. We talked about you doing collaborations with other folks. Can you talk a little bit about maybe some of the collaborations the brewery does with non-beer groups here in Rocky Mount or elsewhere, some of the either mentorship opportunities or community service types of things that you work on or support?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. We've got the Mill Chill coming up. It's a ... I think it's 5K ... run for 00:39:00MS. We have runners sign up. A lot of breweries from the state come out here to participate, and we have runners come out. It's just a big fundraiser. That's fun. Also, some of the proceeds from the Run the Jewels collabs, I get to pick a charity to donate 15% of the proceeds too. Usually, I've been donating them to Hayti Heritage Center out of Durham, just because Durham is home. I love everything Durham. I love Hayti.

I've tried doing some internships with people that have been expressed interest in brewing. I'm still working on that, just trying to find the right people 00:40:00that, like I said, that actually want to do it and don't just want to take selfies. But that's something I'm still working on actively. Also, have just donated and contributed to local non-profits in the area. Also, looking to work with OIC of Rocky Mount, which they do ... It's a trade school type thing. I'd like to try to get some kind of brewing program going with them. I've talked to different organizations, a couple of HBCUs actually, about trying to get some kind of brewing program going. Because that's the dream, to get something, a school going, and maybe even start some kind of Incubator space, myself, at some 00:41:00point. I think that'd be awesome.

Erin Lawrimore:

Let's talk a little bit about your operations here. Let's talk a little bit about the system that you use, how much you typically brew, what the barrelage is whatnot.

Briana Brake:

It's a 10 barrel system. Then I have a couple of 10 barrel fermentation tanks. Then I have a 20 barrel. I usually do just a 10 barrel batch, but sometimes I do have to do a double, and I'll brew it to that 20 barrel fermentor. I'm doing about 60 to 70 barrels a month right now.

Erin Lawrimore:

With the Incubator space, do you have dedicated barrels and tanks?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, dedicated fermentors.

Erin Lawrimore:

Oh, cool.

Briana Brake:

Everybody has their own fermentor, and then we share the actual brewing system.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah. That's why I was curious as to how that ... if you all have ...

Briana Brake:

There's actually two-

Erin Lawrimore:

It's hard enough to schedule in one brewery. I was wondering if you had to schedule amongst everybody.

Briana Brake:

There's two brewing systems that we can use. Yeah, everybody just gets on the schedule when they can. We all share the same canning line. We have to just schedule it out.

Erin Lawrimore:

We talked briefly about this before we started recording, but speaking of canning, can you talk a little bit about distribution outside of the tap room?

Briana Brake:

Mm-hm.

Erin Lawrimore:

Are you or how far are you doing that now?

Briana Brake:

I'm currently doing self-distribution. I did have a distributor before, but I'm not working with them anymore. I'm just doing it myself right now, which is a lot. I'm like the guy you said that was driving from ... Yeah, I'm that guy. I'm that guy right now.

Erin Lawrimore:

How far out are you going?

Briana Brake:

I think the furthest I've been was Charlotte, but I've had people come from Boone to pick up beer. That's another thing, big thing, that I'm working on is hiring a couple of delivery drivers, getting a couple of delivery vans so I can focus on other stuff and not be in the car all the time.

Erin Lawrimore:

Right now, is it mainly ... How many folks, aside from you, are part of the operation as a whole?

Briana Brake:

Right now, I have four people that help in the ... They help in the tap room, running the register. Outside of that, it's me and I have friends and family that come and help and volunteer when they can. That's the team.

Erin Lawrimore:

You're doing all the brewing? You don't have an assistant? No.

Briana Brake:

No. I'm working on it. Like I said, I've got somebody that recently has been coming and helping out, like a part-time thing or whenever he can, but it's not a regular thing.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah. No, I can see that being a lot while you also have to drive around and do your distribution. If you had your way, where would you see Spaceway going in the future, next few years, short term future?

Briana Brake:

Next few years? I'm working on a project in Durham, actually. I'm trying to open a tap room there.

Erin Lawrimore:

Talk a little bit more about that.

Briana Brake:

Actually, I've been working on that for about two years, just because ...

Erin Lawrimore:

The last few years have been-

Briana Brake:

The past few years have been just ... yeah. So still working on that. Looking to have that going, hopefully, by the summer.

Erin Lawrimore:

Where in Durham are you-

Briana Brake:

The downtown area. Looking forward to that. Not just because it's home and it's where I wanted to be anyway, but I think that that would be a good market for me. Out here is cool, but it's not Durham as far as the traffic that I'd see up there. Like I said, my family's there. My mom's there. I grew up there. Looking forward to that. But it's just going to be a tap room. Then hoping to do some kind of production in that area, in the near future, say the next 4, 3, 4 years. That's what I'm looking forward to doing.

Erin Lawrimore:

That sounds like a very ... I guess, longer term, even thinking beyond that, in 00:46:00your ultimate perfect world, where do you want to see Spaceway going?

Briana Brake:

I'd like to get into distilled spirits. I want to make some whiskey. That's where I'd like to go. I don't know if you've ever been to a Brewstillery where it's a big production place where they brew it on one side and then they're distilling spirits on another side. I'd like to do something like that. I'd like to do more events. I have a ton of events and stuff in my head that I want to do, but I just ... Trying to find the time to do it and the help to bring that about is ... That's another big thing. I'm looking forward to being fully 00:47:00staffed with a team of reliable, dedicated workers that want to help grow this company. I'm starting to slowly get the people that I need, so I'm confident that I'll see that happen.

Erin Lawrimore:

Thinking broader beyond industry wide, what are some of the biggest challenges that you see in the industry, the craft beer industry, today? Challenges you can take as good or bad.

Briana Brake:

I guess, smaller breweries being able to scale up and meet the production needs that they have. Everything is so expensive now. Just the cost of ingredients, 00:48:00the cost of shipping, all of that is just like, "Okay, well how do I balance that out and be able to continue to grow?" I think another one of the big challenges is just, like I said, trying to get more black and brown people in the industry with actual ownership and being the captains of their ships, so to say.

Erin Lawrimore:

Even here in North Carolina, we don't have ... I'm trying to think. Other than here and Dirtbag, is there another open brewery owned by an African American right now?

Briana Brake:

I think there's one in Charlotte. I can't remember the name. I think he recently 00:49:00opened. But I believe that's it. Then same for women-owned and operated. There's ... out of how many? What, 800?

Erin Lawrimore:

It grows every day, I think.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. It's a lot. But women and black and brown people, we don't make up the ... We're a tiny, tiny, tiny drop in the bucket.

Erin Lawrimore:

I think that ties back into something you were talking about earlier, when you were talking about making the tap room an inviting space for everybody. Can you talk a little bit more about that on an industry-wide level and what you do to combat that here?

Briana Brake:

Somebody told me that they like coming in here because we talk to them, and it 00:50:00was so weird to me, but I thought about it. If you go to a lot of places, it's not everywhere, but a lot of places you go, it's just like, "Take your beer. Get out of my face." No, we'll sit here and have a conversation with you like, "Where are you from?" People like that, just feeling seen and that you care that they exist. That's sad it, isn't it? Yeah, that's sad. But I think that's a big draw. I get people. They say, "I came all the way from Virginia to see you," so how dare me sit here and just, "Take this beer and go over there." No. I'm, "What are you doing in Virginia? What are you drinking up there?" Just talk to people. It makes a huge difference.

Erin Lawrimore:

I know exactly what you're talking about. Again, thinking industry-wide, where 00:51:00do you either see or hope to see the industry in five or six years? Big picture, where are we going or hoping to go?

Briana Brake:

Definitely, like I said before, I'd like to see more women and minority-owned spaces. Maybe spaces collabing more on events and finding ways to make it more welcoming to people. I think that's the big thing for me is just making these spaces seem more welcoming than a lot of them are right now.

Erin Lawrimore:

That makes sense. Again, thinking industry-wide, are there industry-wide trends 00:52:00today, trends in beer and brewing, that you particularly love or that you particularly are never going to touch with a 10 foot pole?

Briana Brake:

Seltzers.

Erin Lawrimore:

Which one is that? Never going to touch?

Briana Brake:

I'm not doing a seltzer. I'm not going to do that. Every now and then, I'm like, "Uh-

Erin Lawrimore:

We got it on film now.

Briana Brake:

Yeah, right. I said it now. That's me trying to hold myself accountable. I think that's the only thing that I've just been like, "No, man. No, I'm not doing that." But everything else, I'm always open to trying something. I'm not really into the super fruity stuff, but I think they're cool. I might collab with somebody on something like that. But other than that, I'm always excited about 00:53:00different things, to hear about the different things that people are trying to just bring out different flavors. I'm always excited about that. Just not seltzers, please.

Erin Lawrimore:

With the not seltzers, where do you get the inspiration when you're developing recipes? Like you said, cardamom's not something people normally throw in a beer.

Briana Brake:

Right. For that one, I was ... And that's where the name comes from, Don Dada. I was eating Jamaican food, and sometimes you're eating and you start dancing because the food is so good and it brings back memories of ... For me anyway, sometimes a song will pop in my head, and I'm dancing, and I'm eating this food. I don't remember what I was eating. Maybe some Oxtails or something like that. There was cardamom in the dish. So I'm thinking, "Oh, what would be a good beer 00:54:00to go with this?" I was like, "Oh, a stout, but with Cardamon maybe." I think I was thinking of a cocktail, old fashioned, so that's kind of smokey. I put sweet orange peel in that beer. For me, that bear is an old fashioned, but it's a beer.

Erin Lawrimore:

A lot of your ideas, do they come from-

Briana Brake:

Music.

Erin Lawrimore:

... a food or a music they just sends you into a rabbit hole?

Briana Brake:

Yeah. That's where the Don Dada ... that's the name of a reggae song I used to listen to when I was a teenager. Then the Agent 7 Cream Ale, that's from a Digable Planets song. They had a song called Agent 7 Creamy Spy. Yeah, a lot of 00:55:00it is just music that I'm thinking about. My Pirate Jenny Double IPA, Pirate Jenny, that's a Nina Simone song. Pirate Jenny is the strongest beer that I make right now. It's nine and a half percent. That song is about a strong female character who's out seeking revenge. A lot of it's inspired by music that I listen to, food that I'm eating, memories of something somebody said somewhere in a book I was reading.

Erin Lawrimore:

For ones like Pirate Jenny, did the name come first, or did the beer come first and then you picked a name for it?

Briana Brake:

I think I had the name first and then I was like, "Yeah, I want something strong and something that's just like, 'Pow, I'm here. Drink me.'"

Erin Lawrimore:

I always just find it interesting. Some people go in one direction and others go-

Briana Brake:

Yeah, I'm all over the place.

Erin Lawrimore:

Nothing bad about that. Here, we've talked a little bit about the Cream Ale and the Stout being standard beers that are on tap. Do you consider those, or even is there one in particular that you consider the flagship beer for Spaceway?

Briana Brake:

Those two, definitely. I think those are the most requested and those have been my biggest sellers.

Erin Lawrimore:

You personally, do you have a favorite? Can you pick a favorite child?

Briana Brake:

That's what I was getting ready to say. It's like telling me, "Pick a baby." I think the Don Dada, just because ... I really love the Agent 7, but it's a beer. 00:57:00It's more flavorful than a Budweiser or whatever, but that's what I give people when they say, "What do you have that's closest to a Budweiser?" I'm like, "Nothing, but drink this." The Don Dada, it's just so much going on with it with the cardamom and then all the ... the memories of listening to that song as a kid. I think that's ... And just the artwork on the label. I love it. I think it's amazing.

Erin Lawrimore:

Talk a little bit more about that artwork. How did that come to be?

Briana Brake:

When I was first getting started, I was looking for design artists to, first of all, to come up with just the Spaceway logo. Again, I was at Beer Study, sitting at the bar just having a beer, and got to talking with this guy that was sitting 00:58:00next to me. I was like, "Yeah, I'm looking for a design artist." He's like, "Oh, I do graphic design." Yeah, right? We got to talk and I was like, "This is what I'm doing." He's like, "Oh, yeah. Me and my brother, we have the design studio. Let's get together. Let's talk about it." I told him what I was looking to do.

First of all, they came up with the amazing just the Spaceway logo itself. I was like, "Okay, yeah. I'm working with you guys." Then I was telling them, "Okay, these are the beers that I have. This is what I'm thinking for this beer, for the Don Dada." I was telling them my inspiration behind the beer and what I was thinking. They managed to get that on paper. And same for the Pirate Jenny label.

Erin Lawrimore:

It's the same guys who've done all of them?

Briana Brake:

No. They've done the Don Dada, the Pirate Jenny, the Agent 7, and then two of 00:59:00the Run the Jewels collab beers.

Erin Lawrimore:

That's awesome.

Briana Brake:

Yeah, those guys are dope.

Erin Lawrimore:

What are their names?

Briana Brake:

Ricardo and Pablo Cortes out of Studio Two. Check them out. Those guys know what they're doing.

Erin Lawrimore:

We'll get their names on. We've come to the question that's always my favorite to ask and the least favorite for beer folks to answer. What's your favorite beer from a North Carolina brewery other than yours?

Briana Brake:

Favorite-

Erin Lawrimore:

If you spent time at Beer Study, you've had to have some good stuff.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can say-

Erin Lawrimore:

You don't have to pick one. You can pick more than one if you want.

Briana Brake:

Okay. I'm trying to think. One of my favorites, off the top of my head, it's from Haw River Brewing out of Saxapahaw. They did a black lager. I can't think of the name of it, but just thinking about it, I'm like, "Ah, yeah. I got to go see if I can find that somewhere," because I haven't had it this year. So them. 01:00:00Let's see. Casita, they got some really good stuff. I can't think of the name. They've got a really good IPA that I really like. Gosh, there's so much beer.

Erin Lawrimore:

You mentioned a dark lager and an IPA. Does your own personal taste run the gamut for beer?

Briana Brake:

It just depends on the time of year. Well, I have to say IPAs, I drink them all year round. But now I'm drinking darker beers. That's why I'm looking for that black lager. Stout and porters, right now, that's what I'm typically drinking. Bocks, doppelbocks, stuff like that.

Erin Lawrimore:

Thinking about what we've talked about so far in the story of Spaceway as a 01:01:00whole, is there anything we haven't talked about that you would want to talk about, in terms of getting that full picture and that full story? There's always something left out.

Briana Brake:

I know there's something. As soon I go home tonight, I'll be like, "Ah." You know how that goes, like, "Ah." I guess, beer festivals.

Erin Lawrimore:

Yeah. Especially because you talked about Blacktoberfest as an event, not just the beer.

Briana Brake:

Yeah. That's next weekend. Then I've got another. I'm doing a beer festival in Nashville, called Oktoberfest, on the 15th. Then out here, we've got the Rocky Mount Beer Festival. That's next month. I think it's the 12th.

Erin Lawrimore:

For you, when you're doing beer festivals, how ... I'm going to guess that it 01:02:00ties in with the way you talked about running the tap room, where it's meet and greet.

Briana Brake:

Yeah, just meet and greet. They're fun. It's an opportunity to meet and talk to other brewers that I typically wouldn't be in the same space with. I think that's my favorite part of the beer festivals, because you get to meet people like, "Oh, I had one of your beers before, but I haven't had a chance to make it out to your tap room." I think that's the beauty of beer festivals for me.

Erin Lawrimore:

When you mentioned Blacktoberfest, next weekend, right?

Briana Brake:

Yeah, the 22nd.

Erin Lawrimore:

Either next ... Yeah.

Briana Brake:

So it's a week after.

Erin Lawrimore:

Week after this weekend.

Briana Brake:

Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore:

Let's talk a little bit about that and why that's an important festival.

Briana Brake:

Okay. Blacktoberfest is in Durham. It brings together brewers from across the country, black brewers from across the country. There's not many, so it's 01:03:00awesome to see folks from out of state that ... Yeah, it's like, "I can't get to Chicago right now, but if you come to this festival, we can meet and maybe talk about our stories and relate to one another on our journeys, trying to get these breweries going." Then they always pair each brewer with another, not necessarily a brewery, but my collaboration with Chef Ricky from Saltbox. It's another way to get small business some attention and giving opportunities to be creative with one another. I really think this is going to be a cool festival 01:04:00again, like it has been the past couple of years. And it's just growing, so I'm excited to get to the festival.

Erin Lawrimore:

Is it in Durham every year or does it move around?

Briana Brake:

It's been in Durham the past two years. The first year they did it out here in Rocky Mount. Then also doing ... This year they did Atlanta and St. Louis. I think Atlanta is this weekend, or maybe it was this past weekend, but yeah.

Erin Lawrimore:

That's awesome. Anything else you can think of?

Briana Brake:

Nothing off the top of my head. No.

Erin Lawrimore:

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time.

Briana Brake:

Thank you.

Erin Lawrimore:

I appreciate it.

Briana Brake:

Thank you.

Erin Lawrimore:

Thank you.