Oral history interview with Elizabeth Anne Helm-Frazier

WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECT

ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

INTERVIEWEE:Elizabeth Anne Helm-Frazier

INTERVIEWER:Beth Ann Koelsch

DATE: July 9, 2021

[Begin Interview]

BAK:Okay. We're kind of we're recording. So today is July 9th, 2021. My name is Beth Ann Koelsch and I'm conducting an oral history interview with Elizabeth Anne Helm-Frazier via Zoom in her home in Laurel, Maryland.

EH:Here I am.

BAK:Hello. So, the oral history interview is for the Women Veterans Historical Project, the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. So, Elizabeth, if you'd state your name the way you would like it to read on your collection.

EH:Elizabeth Anne Helm-Frazier.

BAK:Okay. So, if you could tell me when you were born and where you were born.

EH:I was born on September 14th, 1961 in St. Petersburg, Florida. And I was raised in Largo, Florida, Ridgecrest community.

BAK:Okay. And can you tell me a little bit about your parents? And if you had siblings a little bit about them, you know what your parents did?

EH:Well, both of my parents are deceased now. My father was Johnie Will Helm Sr. and he was actually in the army. The early fifties, he went to Korea. However, he did not stay in. He was originally from Georgia. And then after he got out of the service, he moved to Florida, Largo because his parents was already there. Then he met my mother. My mother's name is Dolores Evelyn Gooden Helm. She was an only child of Willie Mae Carter and Chester Gooden. Her parents were not married to each other. That's why we have three sets of grandparents. My mother had two sets of parents and then my dad’s parents. My dad’s [family consisted of three sisters and two brothers—EH corrected later.] He had one brother and three sisters. His one brother Lige Helm Sr. was also in the army and he retired from the army.

My mother, like I said, was an only child, but she did have a half-brother because Chester had a son. My mother was born in Ocala, Florida. And then as a child moved to New York City, her and her mother moved to New York City. So, she considered New York City her home. That's where she grew up at. And then when she graduated from high school, she came to Florida. I went to Florida A&M college at the time. And then she married my dad.

I have three brothers and a sister. I did lose one brother, Johnie Will Helm, Jr. He was an army veteran in the 101st at Fort Campbell. He actually went into service two weeks before I did, April 26th of 2018. He lost the fight to Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma at age fifty-four. I am the oldest of the five. So now it is me, Leslie, Patrick, and Bruce. And Patrick was also in the army. He stayed three years. He was an army medic. He and I actually was stationed out at Fort Ord, California together. I was over at the medical activity department, the hospital, and he was across the street at the first of the ninth infantry regiment. And it was that unit in December of 1989, that then President George Bush, the first Bush, ordered a unit to Panama. And that was that unit that deployed to Panama. And Patrick was in that unit. He went and he came back. Thank God. And then he separated. He is now there in Florida with my sister, Leslie, and then my youngest brother, Bruce works for Amtrak. Patrick works for Publix. Leslie works for an insurance company and Bruce works for Amtrak.

BAK:Okay, great. So, what did your parents do for a living?

EH:My dad, Johnie Will Helm Sr., after he got out of the service and came to Florida, he was pretty much self-employed. He owned several different businesses. My mother went back to school and went into the nursing field. And was a nurse, did private duty for a very long time. She also owned her own catering company called Dee and Sons. And she, she was a caterer probably for, I want to say at least thirty years.

BAK:Wow! Okay. Caterer and a nurse. Very busy. Yes. Yeah. So, can you talk a little bit about your childhood and in Florida, where you went to school, what you liked about school, your favorite subject?

EH:Well, I, like I said, I was born in St. Petersburg and grew up in Largo, Florida in the community of Ridgecrest. And at the time Ridgecrest was a pretty much all African American community and it was self-contained. We had a gas station, a dry cleaner. We had churches; we had a laundry mat that my dad actually owned. We had barber shops and beauty shops and we had the corner and the corner was a grocery store that had a cafe, a grocery store on the bottom. The residents were upstairs and they had room and boards. There was an ice cream shop and that piece of property was owned by my grandparents, the late Chester and Corinne Gooden. And that was my foundation. The church that we went to was St. Mary Missionary Baptist church. And my grandparents Chester and Corinne Gooden actually donated the land and helped organize St. Mary Missionary Baptist church. And it is still there.

BAK:Okay. So. your family was kind of a big deal in your community?

EH:Well, they were business people. They were activists. They worked in the community. We went to school in a community, in a neighborhood. It was Ridgecrest Elementary School, which is still there. And the principal at the time was Mr. James C. Rembert and he was a powerhouse. He was a superhero to us. He was a disciplinarian, but he was that very positive black man in the neighborhood. In fact, if you saw his car and, in your yard, you literally did not go home. Because you were like, okay, what is he doing up there? Okay. But he knew everybody in the neighborhood. He knew my grandparents very well. They were very, very good friends. And at one point in time, my mother worked at Ridgecrest in the cafeteria. And so, she became like his daughter literally. Okay.

And in that neighborhood of Ridgecrest, like I said, it was very self-contained. Most of the people there was related to me on my father's side, I had a lot of cousins and [family members—EH corrected later] on my mother's side, we were the only grandchildren, but Ridgecrest was a place where everybody was related. And in fact, when I started hearing this term of village, I was just like, well, that's not a new term. That's what we had in Ridgecrest because everybody knew everybody. And everybody knew everybody kids. And that's how we grew up. In fact, I thought that's how everybody grew up. Okay. We had a volunteer fire department that the Friends of Ridgecrest, which is still an organization going on now that my grandparents, my mother's parents Chester and Corinne Gooden, and my dad's parents Elijah and Trudy Helm, and many others established. And they established and formed a Ridgecrest volunteer fire department. And we had 4th of July parades, we had, I think we had a Thanksgiving Day parade and we had a Christmas parade and it all ended down in the park, Ridgecrest Park, which is still there by the way.

BAK:Sounds like an amazing neighborhood.

EH:It was.

BAK:Did you enjoy school or your favorite parts about? What was your favorite subject?

EH:I liked schools when we went to Ridgecrest we were able to walk. So here we were, these little kids, you know, six and seven years old. We just walked to school. We walked down the road, cut through the woods and the school was right there. Of course, you can't do that now. And then when, let's see, I think it was the third grade. We were told that we were going to be bused out of the neighborhood to a school up in Largo. And that was Largo Central Elementary school. It's no longer there now, but when I spent third grade and fourth grade, when I got in the fourth grade, I met that teacher that I think everybody has had in his or her life. The teacher that just struck a chord with you. And for me, that teacher was Mrs. Versie P. Turner. That was my fourth-grade teacher. That's probably why fourth grade is my favorite grade. She could sing, she could play the piano. And she was a great teacher. And she was also friends with my friends, with my mother. And she was one of those ones that were stern with you, but she was fair. And she impacted my life well into my adulthood. She died in April of 2011, I think, but I was her favorite student and she was my favorite teacher.

BAK:Okay. So. when did you graduate? What year did you graduate?

EH:High school? 1979.

BAK:Okay. So, did you know what you wanted to do next after you graduated?

EH:Well, okay. That's a story. When I was growing up, I wanted to be a clown because you know, there was Ronald McDonald [clown character used by the McDonald's fast-food restaurant chain], there was Bozo [clown character on television] and clowns were at the circus, right. But my mother told me she was not sending me to school to be a clown. So that didn't happen. And then I wanted to be a—I wanted to go in fashion design. Okay. And yeah, we lived in Largo, Florida, so it was not a fashion city, even a fashion state. And so, I think I decided, okay, I'm going to go into some type of business, get a business degree. And I did, I attended, at the time it was called junior college. I did that for about a year. And then I said to her, this is just not working because I wanted to get out on my own. I wanted to be on my own. I wanted to travel. I wanted to just be on my own. And so, two years later, well, in a year later, then I decided to, that I was going to go in the military.

BAK:Okay. And I'm guessing from your family backstory, I mean, did you consider any other branch besides the army or—?

EH:I thought about the air force, but the air force had a longer waiting time. And I had a plan. I wanted to go at a specific time. And so, the army was the one that allowed me to go the time that I wanted to go.

BAK:Okay. And when did, when did you—?

EH:I wanted to go within the year. And so, this was 1980. And at that same time, my brother, who is two years younger than me, Johnie, he was going in right after high school. And so, I was like, okay, well I want to go in 1981, I think it was a ten-month window. And I was able to go that August. So, he went two weeks before I did. And then I went in, I left August of 1981.

BAK:Okay, so you kind of joined because you wanted to be on your own and travel and things like that. That was a big impetus. Okay. How did your families and friends react when you told them that you had [unclear]?

EH:Well, that's a story too. So, like I said, my brother who I am two years older than, okay. He was going in the military right after high school. And my parents were really excited about that. My parents were divorced, but my dad lived down the street and they were really excited about him going; however, when it was time for me to go and I was already, I was over eighteen. So, unlike him, I did not need the signature because I could sign my own paperwork. So, when I told my mother that I had joined the army, that was not a good day, okay. This was 1980. And she must have called twelve people in two minutes on a dial phone, okay. And she called my dad and she says, "You need to come up here and talk to your daughter because she has joined the army."

And I'm still not understanding what the problem is. I'm okay. Well, why are you mad? So, my dad comes up and when he came into the yard, my mother says, because at home they call me Anne and she says, “Anne get out there because your father is out there.” So, I go out there and I'm thinking, my dad is going to be all right with it because he had been in the service and his brother had been in the service and his brother had retired. He was not happy. I mean, he was, why do you want to go in? And the only kind of women that go in the army or women that failed at life and can’t get married or gay. And I was just like, well, I'm none of those. And I really could not understand why they were not happy about that.

BAK:So, you're very surprised I'm hearing.

EH:Yeah. But however, it was my grandparents, my one grandfather, Johnie Davenport, who was my mother's stepfather. They lived in New York. He and my grandmother Willie Mae Davenport lived in New York City. And he was a World War II army veteran. He did not go overseas. However, he was a cook. He stayed here in the state and it was him along with my other two grandfathers that literally came to my defense and kind of kept the wolves off of me, so to speak. And so, my grandfather, Johnie Davenport played a really huge part in my decision about the military. He's the one that sat me down and said, look, number one, you are an adult now. Never mind what your parents saying, or even your grandmother, you are an adult and you have to decide what it is that you want to do.

Don't decide it based off of them. Because if you do, you will regret that. He says, but I will guarantee you this. If you go in the army, three things will happen. You will learn every single thing that you can, because you'll be smarter. You will be a better person than you were when you went in there. And if you stay at least twenty years, you will get a government check for life. He says, I will guarantee those three things. And that's what I did. I learned every single thing I could. I got three degrees while I was in the army. I looked back and yes, I was a better person than I was when I first came into the military. And yeah, I got a government check for life. How about that?

BAK:Did your parents eventually accept your decision?

EH:Well, I'll tell you, my mother came to my first re-enlistment. I had been in about four years, I think, maybe a little over four years—

BAK:For four? And when you enlisted, you listed for four years?

EH:When I enlisted, what did I enlisted for, let's see, I think it was about four years, I think four or five years. I'm trying to remember. But when I did my first reenlistment, I was at Eisenhower Army Medical Center at Fort Gordon, which is Augusta, Georgia. And I had asked my mother to come up. Well, actually I'd asked both of them. I asked my parents to come up for my reenlistment, for my first reenlistment. I was excited about that. My mother did come to Augusta and she came to my first reenlistment. And after it was over with, she turned to me and said, this is one of the best things that you have ever done. And I am glad that you did not let me influence you.

BAK:Wow!

EH:And at that point, I was like, okay, I'm good.

But my dad never came around. And I spent a lot of years wanting him to say that I just did all right. Not even for the fact that I'm making rank and coming up to him just to say that I did all right. And he died in April of 1998. And never, never said that, hey, you did all right. But I was okay. I made my peace with it because my grandparents all supported me and my mother had come around and said, hey, this was a good decision. And I'm glad you did not listen to me or let me influence you.

BAK:Okay. So where did you enlist? And do you remember what date?

EH:So, I, my first enlistment, I mean my first reenlistment-

BAK:No, when you first enlisted, do you remember?

EH:So, oh, my enlistment. So, I enlisted, I was at home in Florida and we had to then go up to Jacksonville because that's where the MEPS [Military Entrance Processing Station] station was at the time, Jacksonville, Florida. And so I went up there that I think it was around November of 1980. And then I was going to go on active duty August 1981.

BAK:Okay. When you signed for a certain MOS [Military Occupational Specialty] or—?

EH:My initial MOS was then 75 Echo, which was personnel actions, specialist. It was in the personnel field and I stayed a 75 Echo until 1988, when I then reclassified into double O R [OOR], which then became 79 Sierra, which is the retention and recruiting MOS. And then we changed the name to career counseling, which does a great job. I think it is still a great job.

BAK:Yeah, you wrote down, it was the best job in the army.

EH:Best job in the army.

BAK:So now we know, now we know that. So, did you want the [unclear]? I mean, when you signed up, were you happy to get the 75 E plus?

EH:Yes, I was. Now I didn't like Fort Jackson, South Carolina, where I had to go and do that [advanced] training because it was too hot. First of all, I didn't know it got that hot in South Carolina, but I did not like Fort Jackson, South Carolina, no offense to anybody, but I just did not like it okay. I had basic training at Fort Dix, New Jersey, and I couldn't believe there was so much sand there at Fort Dix, but the good part about it was I was only like an hour from New York City. So, I got to, when we got the passes, I could get on the bus and go into port authority and my grandfather would meet me there. And so, I could see them on those breaks. And then my dad's brother, my uncle Lige, he lived, at the time, he and his wife lived in a place called Wrightstown, which is right outside of Fort Dix. And he had retired from Fort Dix, New Jersey.

BAK:Oh, wow! Okay. That's great. So, this was, was this the first time you were this far from home?

EH:No, like I said, my mother called New York City home. And so, when we were kids, this is the reason why we love trains. We would get on the train and go to New York at least twice a year in the summertime. And then in December for Christmas. And so, traveling was already in our blood because we would go and see them. And then when we would get to New York City, my grandfather, Johnie Davenport, because at the time it was only Leslie, Johnie and I, he would take us on day trips. We would go to the World Trade Centers. We would go to the Empire State Building. He took us to all of the museums. And even one time we got back on the train and came back to Washington to look at the monuments. And of course, when you're a kid, it just didn't really matter then. Okay. And then he would talk, tell us about it. He would tell us the history behind all of these monuments. And of course, when you're a kid, you not really paying attention. We were just glad to be with granddaddy. That's about it for us. But yeah, we were already traveling people when we were kids.

BAK:So, how was basic training for you?

EH:Well, like I said, I got to Fort Dix. I was kind of glad cause I was in the north and Fort Dix was only an hour from New York City, but I could not believe there was so much sand. I was just like, well, what did they do? Go get the sand from Florida and bring it up here and dump it?

BAK:So, you were looking forward to some dirt, I guess then?

EH:Then I was in a company where, because again, this was 1981, there was only one female platoon. There were three male platoons and one female platoon. And of course, they put us there in front and men naturally walk faster than women. So, we just burn it up the sand just to keep the guys off of us. And it was thirty-three of us. And we only out of the thirty-three, we only lost three.

We had the senior drills, one of the senior drill sergeants at the time was a man by the name of Sergeant First Class Martin Pate III and one night our drill Sergeant was mad at all of us. So, he put all of us outside and told us we were going to sleep outside. And Sergeant Pate, someone called him, and he came to the barracks and he got us out of the field that we were in and put us in the day room at the time. And it's a big open space. And it was just the females. It was just the female platoon. And he said to us, he says, the only person that stops you from achieving is you. All of you in here have the capability, the competency, the qualifications to do and be whatever you want to do in the military.

The only person that would stop you is you. He said the army is changing. He says, so don't let what anybody tells you do not let that stop you. You can be whatever it is that you want to be. And I'm sitting there and listening, okay, I can be whatever I want to be. And that always stayed in my mind, along with what my father told me and how disappointing that was. Those two things always stayed in my mind and was kind of like my driving force of, okay, I can't fail. I got to do this because I got to keep going. And Sergeant Pate who is now Command Sergeant Major retired Martin Pate III actually lives down there in Aberdeen, North Carolina.

BAK:Wow! Wow! How do you spell his last name?

EH:It's P-A-T-E and he's the third. He's the third. I still call him drill sergeant, even though he's a retired now. I still call him drill sergeant because the drill sergeant was like the parents. So, I still call him drill sergeant and he still calls me his favorite soldier. So yeah, it's great. You know, I talked to him probably about four or five times a year and he was one of those ones that kind of saw me come up through the rank. And, every single time he would see me, he would always say “I'm proud of you.” And even now he says that, so.

BAK:It's great. So, you basically, there was no—So, he's, I mean, now it's like anyone really well, some people I've talked to enjoy--I mean I don't think anyone really well, some people I've talked to enjoyed basic [training], but you didn't necessarily have any huge problems would you say? Or like, well the hard, what was the hardest thing to basic for?

EH:Push-ups that was the hardest thing.

BAK:Okay

EH:And it was Sergeant Pate that took those who were failing the physical fitness tests and whatever area, he's the one that came and took the time to give us that extra training. Now I could run like the wind, running was not a problem, sit ups was not a problem. It was the pushups. And so, he taught me and a few other ones that the technique to doing pushups and he says, all you have to do, you get down there and you straighten up your back. And when you hear your number, then get up. And so, I think we had, I think I had to do about, I don't know, eleven or twelve. So, as soon as I heard the number I got up, because I was good.

BAK:Okay. Wow! All right. So, anything else about basic, do you want to mention, or?

EH:The fact that it was close to New York City was really good.

BAK:Okay. So then, then we went to our AIT [Advance Individual Training], in not quite as fun at Fort Jackson.

EH:Yeah Fort Jackson.

BAK:Yeah so, a few months, is there anything you want to mention about Fort Jackson?

EH:No, I just didn't like Fort Jackson.

BAK:All right

EH:Just did not like South Carolina and the drill Sergeant, there was a female and this lady could run, and I was not going to let her outrun me.

BAK:Oh my.

EH:I spent the entire time at Fort Jackson running. because I was not going to let this woman out run me. And at the time now, because you know, I'm twenty and she had to be probably about thirty-one [or] thirty-two. So that was old to me, okay. So, I was not going to let some thirty-year old out run me. Okay. And we ran all over Fort Jackson. That's probably why I don't like Fort Jackson.

And I was out there in front with her because I was just not going to let her outrun me and she would look around and see me. And she just would start running even faster. And I'm like right there. And we were at the time running in boots, in coop boots. That's what we call them because the army had not come up with the policy that you could run in sneakers. So, we were running in boots. Okay. And I'm right there, we run up and down hills through the sand. I was not going to let her outrun me. Okay. So, I spend a lot of time running.

BAK:Okay. So, it was hot, you're running. But besides that, did the training go okay?

EH:Yes.

BAK:Okay. So, your first duty station was in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. And you're there, I have that somewhere. That's on your bio, which I didn't printout. So how long were you there?

EH:Probably about a year and a half. Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, we called it fort lost in the woods. They probably still call it that.

BAK:Probably so pretty rural or pretty isolated.

EH:It is pretty, Okay. So, there was a little, there was a strip, that's what we called it. The street that led into Fort Leonard Wood, that little area was called St. Roberts. Then they had a little town that was a little bit bigger. That was Waynesville and Fort Leonard Wood sat between St. Louis and Kansas City. And that was my first duty assignment. It was cold, the cold didn't bother me. What did bother me was the place did not have any trees. And I had never seen a place that did not have trees, where the trees at? Okay. And then they had these hills, but they are not hills they're called Ozarks. So, I thought they were hills and people was always correcting me saying, oh no, those are the Ozarks. Okay, well what's the Ozark? Never did really get a good answer on what the Ozark was, but it was not a hill.

I did get that part straight. It was not a hill. It was not a mountain. It was an Ozark. But I will tell you that it was a very, very good assignment. That's where I learned about the military ID card system, because I was taught by a civilian lady who's now deceased. And her name was Margarite Elizabeth Williams. And she had been a DA [Department of the Army], a civilian at that point, I think, twenty years. And she taught me about the military ID card system and customer service. She and I stayed in contact. She died January of last year. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. January of last year she passed away. She had been married for over sixty years to Mr. Williams and Margarite was a great, great supporter of whatever I did. And like Mrs. Turner watched me and my career in the military. And even after I got out, she was always cheering me on. And when I lost my mother, she sent me a really nice card and called me.

BAK:Wow! Sounds like you really had some good mentors in your life.

EH:I did. I did. I was very fortunate. Very fortunate.

BAK:So, what were your main responsibilities there?

EH:Where?

BAK:Well, I guess so you did ID cards there.

EH:Oh, at Fort Leonard Wood. Yeah, I did ID cards. Yeah.

BAK:Okay. And what about, what did you do, what was a typical day like for you? Well did you work nine to five, Monday through Friday or.

EH:We worked, we lived up in of course, I'm like twenty-one or something like that. So, you lived in the barracks. I was single. We lived up in the barracks. Our barracks was called Specker barracks. And it was this new concept. You had your bathroom in the room and there were only three people in a room. So that was kind of cool. So, the work, the duty hours was between, I think it was a 7:30 [a.m.] to 4:30 [p.m.] or 5:00 [p.m.] maybe. And then you would go back and if there was any military duties such as guard duty or charge quarters or whatever the duties was, you did those. So, it was like living on your own. We lived in a really nice barracks area.

The dining facility was probably about a hundred yards away. Great friends, even now I'm still in contact with some of those people that I met. And we went to the church. I think the church was called Libra Heights Gospel Service. We went there on Sundays. So, it was nice. And even went to back to St. Louis a couple of times and went up to Kansas City a couple of times. So, it was, and like I said it called it "fort lost in the woods," but it was one of my best assignments.

BAK:Okay. So, you were there for about a year. And how'd you get from there to Western Hannah wall, I've actually not heard of that one.

EH:Okay, so I came down on assignment, my second assignment and I got an assignment to Hanau, West Germany.

BAK:Hanau, Okay. Now, go ahead.

EH:Because it was still East and West.

BAK:Right.

EH:I got an assignment to the 574 Personnel Service Company there in Hanau, West Germany.

BAK:Okay. Did you put in a request that or just?

EH:No, I came down on assignment for it.

BAK:Okay. All right. So, what was that like? That's a big change.

EH:Well, yeah, because I was going to be overseas. I was going to be out of the country for the first time.

BAK:Right.

EH:But I was excited because I was going to go and live in another country. And I was excited about that. I left Fort Leonard Wood, I went home to Florida to see my mother and family there. And then I got on the train and went to New York and my grandparents, Johnie and Willie Mae Davenport, went back to Philadelphia with me because that's where I flew out of. And that was the first time I saw my grandfather not happy, okay. I was going overseas. And so, I just remember, and this was the time that you could actually go to the gate with someone who was leaving.

BAK:I reminder that one a lot.

EH:Just in case some people out there think it was always like it is. No, you could actually go to the gate with the person.

BAK:Good old days.

EH:So, they walk me to the gate and then my grandfather hugged me and walked away, and I was like, well, why did he do that? And so, my grandmother said, "He's just sad that you're going, but he'll be fine." She says, but I want to tell you something. I want you to get on the plane, she says. But I want to tell you that wherever you go in the army, okay, you do three things before you do anything else. The first thing is, you find you a place to stay. The second thing is you find a place to do your hair and you find a place to pray. She says, now you don't have to do them in that order. But to do those three things first and everything else will fall in behind it. And so, I was like, okay.

So, find a place to stay, find a beauty shop and find a place to pray. And she says, because if I'm not able to get to you or your granddaddy or your parents, if you find that place to pray, you will always have someone there. And so that's what I did. Every time I moved to a duty assignment; those were the first three things that I found. Well, of course the army kind of took care of that first one for you. Okay. So, when I got to Hanau, the unique thing about Hanau was we lived and worked in the same building. We lived upstairs on the, because it had five levels, five floors. The top two floors were where you live, the single people live. And then the floors one through three were the actual company, the personnel company. So, that was pretty unique that we lived and worked in the same building. I thought that was kind of cool.

BAK:Yeah. So, a pretty small place then? pretty small.

EH:So, I was in Hanau and I was on Pioneer Kaserne [former U.S.military base in Germany.] So, I was on that military installation, Pioneer military installation. And then there were other smaller installations throughout Hanau. It's not like here where you have like Fort Meade or like Fort Bragg, the military installations all kind of spread out. So, I was at Pioneer Kaserne which was really the nice kaserne [barracks] because we had a really nice PX [post exchange], we had the really nice club. We had the really nice church. Okay? We had the really nice dining facility, we call it the mess hall. But the great thing about it was across the street, was a Kentucky Fried Chicken place. I was in heaven because if nothing else, I was going to be able to eat Kentucky Fried Chicken.

BAK:Right. So, did you like Hanau? I mean, did you get to go

EH:Yeah, I did I liked Hanau, we could get on the train and go to Frankfurt. It was kind of centrally located. So, I got to do a lot of traveling. So, I got there in May of 1983 and I took my first trip like a month later.

I was sailing down the Rhine River, because I realized where I was, I was in Europe and all of those postcards that my Godparents, the late Sidney and Louise Reese, because he was a consultant for the [United States Army] Corps of Engineers. Mr. Reese had been in the army, they, wherever they traveled, they would send us postcards when I was a kid. And I always kept the postcards because I'm like, oh yeah, I'm going to Paris, I'm going to the Eiffel Tower, I'm going to London to Buckingham Palace. I'm going to the Czech [Republic]. Oh yeah. I had a list. So, I had figured out that where I was in Hanau was basically centrally located. And there was, at the time they called it the ITT (Information, Tickets, and Travel) office tours and travel office, kind of like a travel agency. And that's where you went to check out the tours. And so, there was a tour going somewhere every weekend just about.

BAK:So, the army was the one conducting the tours?

EH:Well, this tours and travel office, which was kind of like a travel agency I noticed.

BAK:Yeah.

EH:Yeah, and it wasn't run by the army. It was just on a military installation in that was the name of it. It was the recreational center for the military, for the army.

BAK:So, the people that were on the tours were all soldiers.

EH:No, the people, well yeah. They were soldiers and family members.

BAK:Okay.

EH:Yeah. Yeah.

BAK:All right. So, you spent most of your weekends traveling then?

EH:Not most of my weekend, because I was an E-4, I didn't really have that much money. So, I had to kind of plan it out. So at least once a month I went on a trip.

BAK:Okay.

EH:Because you could put it on layaway. I know people don't know what that means. So, layaway means you pay overtime.

BAK:No. Yeah. Okay. Did you get to Oktoberfest?

EH:Yes, I did. I went to Munich. I did a lot of touring when I was over there. Like I said, it just because I was over there a total of two years. So, I went to Paris, France. So, the first time I went to Paris, France, I think it was that September. It was raining. And all I wanted to do was get off the bus and go take a picture in front of the Eiffel Tower. Because I had that postcard that Mrs. Reese had sent me—and I had this person to go and take this picture of me standing in front of the Eiffel Tower. And then I was good.

BAK:So, you didn't go up it or anything?

EH:And then so I did Paris, I did Munich, the Oktoberfest. I also did the concentration camps, Dachau, which is just heart-wrenching. I did almost all of Germany because like I said, we were kind of centrally located.

BAK:Yes, did you go to West Berlin or East Berlin?

EH:Yeah. That now, that was a unique little trip.

BAK:That's the cold war was pretty hot then. [both speaking]

EH:What was unique about that was okay, so I'm in Hanau, West Germany. I mean, it's still East and West and we were going to West Berlin. And West Berlin is in West Germany, which is in East [Germany] behind the iron curtain.

BAK:Right.

EH:And so, we had to have all of your paperwork, everything had to match. All your records, because when you got on the train, we got on the train in Frankfurt, and then you rode from Frankfurt to the border, to the East Germany border. And then the East German guards got on. They checked everybody's— now they probably didn't know English from, I don't know, Adam, but you had to have your ID card and they held up the ID card to your orders because you had to have orders to go. And then I think because it was night, I'm thinking, that's why they did it. They put the blinds down and then the train went on. And when you woke up that morning, you were pulling into the West Berlin train station in West Germany in behind the Iron Curtain [the concept of separation between Western countries and the Soviet bloc during the Cold War.]

BAK:Did you get to East Germany or East Berlin at all? You go through Checkpoint Charlie?

EH:Not that time because it was still communist. We did go back Checkpoint Charlie. Okay. Which was, at the time, was the most famous checkpoint I think in the world. Other than the DMZ [demilitarized zone separating North and South Korea].

BAK:Yeah.

EH:Yeah. It was I only stayed there like four days and then of course, then we did the same thing going back, but I just thought that was really unique.

BAK:What was your experience with the German civilians?

EH:There or just—?

BAK:Just in general.

EH:Well the first time, because I was an E-4, there were Germans that worked in our building. And so, I got to know them because they just worked in our building. Didn't really get to know them on a personal basis. Not that tour anyway, but you know, it was a friendly relationship. They would speak their broken English with us and then we would speak, I would speak my broken German with them. So, yeah.

BAK:Okay. So, anything else you want to talk about your first time in Germany?

EH:That it was really a good tour. I liked that tour. Yeah.

BAK:All right. So that ended and you went to Georgia next. You went to Fort—

EH:I went to Eisenhower Army Medical Center, Fort Gordon, Augusta, Georgia. And I did not know that Augusta got that hot. I did not know that.

BAK:You went from nice crisp Germany to, wow. Okay. So yeah, the Southeast is all pretty hot.

EH:In fact, I can tell you that the day that I arrived, it was ninety-seven degrees. And I was just like, oh my God, it's hot. [But] great things happened at Georgia. One of the great things that happened was I was able to buy a car because in Germany I didn't drive. And so, I really miss driving. And I said, as soon as I got back to the world, ‘cause that's what they called America.

BAK:Right, right.

EH:I'm going to buy a car because I want to drive. So, I bought a 1984 Chevrolet hatchback Chevette at a Toyota dealership. Yeah. That was kind of cool. A Chevrolet at a Toyota dealership.

BAK:What color was it?

EH:It was light blue.

BAK:Okay.

EH:Yeah.

BAK:You like it?

EH:I loved it. I loved it. I was buying it on my own. The sad part was my grandfather, Johnie Davenport, had died May 19th, 1985. That same year he died from lung cancer. And so, I had a new—

BAK:And you were still in Germany, so you didn't get the—

EH:Yeah. So, I had come home. I came to New York. I'd actually, I'd obviously went to New York City that April to see him. And that's actually, when I found out that he had at the time, I think it was stage four lung cancer. He did not want anybody to tell me that he had lung cancer. He was at Mount Sinai [Hospital] and Mount Sinai did an outstanding job in caring for him. And it was there that his doctor at the time, which I thought was a really old age at sixty-five, he is the one that told me that cancer will be cured, not in Mr. Davenport's lifetime and not in my lifetime, but in your lifetime cancer can and will be cured. The key to it is research, but research costs money. And that stuck with me. And then, like I said, my grandfather died May 19th, 1985.

I had planned to get out and I was going to move back to New York City and just help my grandpa, help my grandmother with him for however long he had. And I told him, and he was like, oh no, no, don't get out. No, he did not like that idea at all. And I said, well, my mind's made up. I'm going to go to Georgia. I'm going to ETS [expiration-term of service] out of the army. And then I'm going to move here to New York City and help grandma with you for as long as possible. And he was like, no, I don't want you to do that. And he died May 19th, 1985. So, I guess he did get his way. Okay. But like I said, then I got back to the states in June 1985, I think. And I bought my car. I bought this Chevette.

BAK:Okay. And you changed your MOS during that.

EH:So, I was there 1988. Yeah. I changed; I was already working in the reenlistment office—

BAK:Okay.

EH:—and a career counselor at the time. His name was Robert Anderson.

BAK:Okay.

EH:And I tell you, he believed in me, he pushed me. He says, “You're going to be in a career counselor.” Just like, what, what? S Now he's probably going to tell this story a little bit different, but it's not, that's not what happened. Okay.

BAK:I won’t be talking to him. So, yours is going to be the one on the record.

EH:He was coming, I think from Germany. And he was going to be the new senior career counselors at Eisenhower. And he walks in, I don't even think he was there five minutes. And he says, so you've been running this office for like three months. And I'm yeah. He's like, "Okay, we're going to send you to the career counselors’ school because that's where you need to be." And I didn't even think about becoming a career counselor until he put it in my head. Okay. And he says, "Yeah, we're going to get you trained up. And you're going to be a career counselor." And two years later I was a career counselor. So, you see who won that one? Yes?

BAK:Wow, okay. So that's where you got your training, there?

EH:Yeah. I had to go to, at the time it was Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana. That's where we went to go and get trained. And Bob, Sergeant Anderson, I mean, he was right there with me every step of the way he and his wife Connie. And they are great friends of mines now. They still live there in Martinez, Georgia, just outside of Augusta. And he was another one that just was right there watching my career and celebrating and talking and doing all those things that mentors do. You know, he just happened to be my friend too.

BAK:Okay. That was pretty good. So, you were there three years and again, if there's any notable stories that, just jump in and then you went to Monterey, Fort Ord.

EH:Fort Ord, yeah. So, I will tell you at Fort Gordon, I was working for Bob and it was apparent that I was going to be a career counselor. I had made E-5, Sergeant and he was getting me ready. And he said, "One of the things that you have to be able to do as a career counselor and a NCO [noncommissioned officer] is you have to be able to speak," well, he said, straddle the fence. I didn't know what that meant at the time. He said, "You have to be able to talk to the lowest ranking person in the room, as well as the highest-ranking person in the room." And so, he made me do this briefing at the time to the hospital commander, who was a one-star general. And I did not want to do it. Nope, I don't want to do it.

“You do it, you're the career counselor”. No, he would not take no for an answer and made me get up there and do it. And of course, I was like horrified because I did not like speaking in front of people. And so, when it was all over with, he came back to the office and he says, "Okay, here's what you're going to do." The hospital had a Toastmasters club. He says, "You are going to go to Toastmasters for six months. But every week after." I think they met on either Wednesday or Thursday. He said, "Well, whatever that is the next day you come in and tell me what you learned." And I was like, "What? " He was like, "Oh, yeah." I was like, "Just give me a counseling statement. I'm good. Just give me—" He would not do that. He would not give me that counselor statement. "No, I'm not giving you a council statement. Because that's the easy way out. You're going to go to Toastmasters and every week, come back and tell me what you did."

BAK:I've actually never met anyone that's gone to Toastmasters. What was that like?

EH:And it was torture probably for the first three months. But what I did not see happening was I started learning how to line up the butterflies so that no one knew that I was scared to speak,

EH:t I was scared to speak to not only a general, but anyone. No one knew it. And I often tell people that that was the best punishment I ever received because I am still in Toastmasters today because of that punishment.

BAK:Wow!

EH:Yeah.

BAK:That's amazing. Okay. Toastmasters. Props to Toastmasters. So now you're across the country. Do you want to talk about Monterey? That seems like a nice place to-

EH:Oh yeah. Monterey was great. Bob kicked me out of the nest. Okay. [both speaking] After I went to career counselor school, he kicked me out of the nest. He was like, “No, you need to go. You need to go establish yourself. You need to get out of here, get from underneath me.” And he sent me, I went all the way to California to Fort Ord, to the United States Medical Activity Department, the hospital where I was the career counselor. And I tell you—and that's Northern California. That's not Southern California. That is Monterey, Salinas, Pacific Grove. Most people know Carmel, where Clint Eastwood lives. Okay. It's that part of California. And the temperature does not get above seventy-five, at least then it didn't. Okay. And then there's always fog. And the Pacific Ocean is right there. It was a beautiful place. Okay. And then San Francisco was to your north, L.A. [Los Angles], San Diego was to the south. Okay. Fort Ord was home to the Seventh Infantry Division Light. And it was there that I started establishing myself as a career counselor.

BAK:What does a career counselor do?

EH:They are the ones that help service members decide [if] they want to stay in the army. But let's face it. Not everybody's going to stay. But we are just what it says, “career counseling”. We help them make those decisions about career counseling, whether they going to re-enlist. And if they re-enlist, do you want to try to change your job. But we also have to do the other thing is if a service member decides that he or she wants to get out, because it's just not working for them or they have other plans, then we try and get them to still keep serving their country by going into the reserves or national guard.

BAK:Okay. So, what was your first, most memorable career counseling case or experience?

EH:There at Fort Ord?

BAK:Or just before Fort Ord. I mean, you can jump. [both speaking]

EH:Oh God. I don't know. Let's see. God, that was an unexpected question. Could I think about that one?

BAK:Yeah, sure. I'm just getting details. Because you're the first career counselor that I've spoke—

EH:Come back to that question.

BAK:Okay. So, let's let me pull up your bio again. So, you're having to make new friends every time. But I guess you kind of get used to that. So, four years, wow. Long stint.

EH:Well at Fort Ord, one of the best things about being at Fort Ord was that my brother, Patrick, who had graduated from high school in 1988, he had come on active duty as a army medic. And after his training was completed there at Fort Sam Houston, his first duty assignment was Fort Ord. And I was stationed out there. I had gotten married and-

BAK:Whoa. We're going to have to go back to that. But okay, go ahead.

EH:Okay.

BAK:No, no. We can talk about that. I just was surprised at the married thing, but anyway.

EH:Yeah, I got married while I was out there at Fort Ord. His name was Cary at the time. He was also stationed at the hospital. He was a nutritionist, a hospital nutritionist. And so, we got married December 30th, 1989. We are now divorced. But Patrick was stationed out there at Fort Ord with us. And like I said, it was his unit that the first President Bush had ordered to Panama because the Panamanian dictator was just crazy.

BAK:Was that [Manuel] Noriega?

EH:Yeah. Yeah. And it was at that point—and Patrick was eighteen at the time. So, I am nine years older than Patrick. So even now he's still a kid to me. I call him kid a lot of the times. And I was looking at the news. And when the president said it, I was like, oh my God.

So, I grabbed my keys, I'm running across the street. Because our units were across the street from each other. And we kind of met halfway because he was coming over to see me and I'm going over to see him. And we met halfway. And I just looked at him like, it's true, you're going. And he says, yeah. And he handed me his keys, his will, and some other paperwork. And he says, "Take care of these papers and tell mama that I'm going to be all right." You know? And then he hugged me. He said, I'm going to be all right. And then he walked away. And all I could see was this little kid walking away because he was eighteen. You know? And so, I went over to his unit and I talked to his platoon sergeant at the time. His name was Sergeant First Class Sampson Rush.

And he saw the look on my face. Because by now I'm a staff sergeant. And I said, I just want you to promise me that you're going to bring my brother home. And he looked at me and he said, soldier to soldier, I'm going to not only bring your brother home, he says, but I'm taking thirty-two men with me and I'm going to bring all thirty-two of them back. And I said, "I am going to hold you to that." And he says, "I am." And he did. He brought all of them back. And when Patrick came back, it was at that point I saw him as a man. I saw him as a young man. And he had done this. He had been deployed. And he came back with this more disciplined— he just came back a changed person.

But it was at that point that I saw him not only as a soldier, but I saw him as a young man. Okay? And that was very touching for me. When I had to tell my mother that he was going to Panama, that was not a good phone call. Okay. At the time her parents were living. So, when I called home, Bruce, the youngest brother, he answered the phone and I said, "Is mama there? "And he said, "Yeah." And he put her on the phone. And then I figured if I said it real fast, she wouldn't hear me. But she heard me. All she heard was deployed, Panama. That's all she heard. She didn't hear anything else. But it was those same people there in Ridgecrest, her parents were still living at the time, they all rallied around her and got her through that difficult time. Because she was a mother seeing her kid go off. That was pretty tough.

BAK:Okay. So, you're married when you then went next to Korea? Did your husband go with you? Where you guys assigned—?

EH:No.

BAK:You weren't assigned?

EH:So, we were going in two different directions. He was going to Fort Sam Houston because he got selected for instructor duty. And so, he was going on to Fort Sam Houston. And I did a tour to Korea. That was the first time. So, I went to Seoul. I was stationed in Seoul for a year. And then I came to Fort Sam Houston.

BAK:Okay. Were you both NCOs?

EH:Yes. We were both NCOs at the time. We were both staff sergeants at the time.

BAK:Okay. What was Seoul like? Was it hard to leave him?

EH:Not really. I mean, we were both military people. It's just something that you know that you've got to do. And so, it was only for a year anyway. And while I was at Fort Ord, I had come out on the promotion list to sergeant first class, E-7. And so, I knew I couldn't go to Fort Sam Houston at the same time. So, I had to go to Korea and then come back to the States and get Fort Sam Houston. And that's what happened. And by the time I got back, I got promoted while I was there in Seoul to sergeant first class. And then when I came back to the States and got Fort Sam Houston, I was a sergeant first class, E-7.

BAK:Anything about Seoul that you wanted to mention?

EH:Seoul was interesting.

BAK:You were [unclear] maintenance battalion.

EH:Yeah. South Korea was interesting. Yeah. Not one of those places that I say, “Oh, I want to go back there”. No. Nothing like that. I did get up to the military zone, the DMZ. I did get there, that divides North and South. At the time it was mostly men that served on the DMZ. Very disciplined men, very dedicated and committed soldiers, because that was the line that was divided North Korea, which was communist and South Korea. And the young men that guarded that line, just truly dedicated young men, very honored to go up there and do a re-enlistment one time.

BAK:Wow! So, anything else about your assignment? You were given a Retention NCO. So, is that the same job you were doing or?

EH:Yeah. So, they kept changing the names. Sometimes at one point we were Retention NCO and another point we were career counselors. I really just like career counselors better.

BAK:Right. Yeah. Retention NCOs is kind of tipping your hand there. Okay. So that was September 1992 to September 1993. And you said you came back and you went to Sam Houston.

EH:Sam Houston, San Antonio.

BAK:Right. Were you living off base with your husband or on base?

EH:In San Antonio we had actually bought a house there.

BAK:Okay.

EH:Yeah. Yeah. We bought a house there in San Antonio. I love San Antonio. The Alamo city. Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay. Fort Sam Houston was good too, but I loved San Antonio. Okay. We bought a house. The great thing about being there at Fort Sam Houston, I met really great people. But my mother and my grandfather, because my grandmother Corrine Gooden had died. But my grandfather Chester Gooden came out to San Antonio. And it was such a delight to have him to come out because he came out there and when he got to the house, he says, so this is your house? You know, it was two stories set right there on the corner. I said, yeah, granddaddy. And he gets on the telephone and called back to Largo to tell people, you got to see my granddaughter's house.

He says, this is a really nice house, you know. And so there again, got that feeling that I had made it because my mother had already been out there. So, this was her second or third time out there. But to hear my grandfather say, my granddaughter and grandson are doing pretty good out here-

BAK:Calling home to brag on you. That is good.

EH:Yeah. So that was really good to hear that. And again, got that feeling of, okay, I'm doing good here. You know? And just really had a great time in San Antonio. Met some great friends there. I have a friend out there now, Janice Franklin, she is retired, US Army Reserves. It was also out there that I got involved in the mentors program. Fort Sam Houston was hosting a volunteer mentors program for the schools there on that side of San Antonio. I think that was the east side. And it was there that I got involved with the mentors program. And one of the mentorees, she was in the second grade at the time, her name Whitney Blackwell. And Whitney is now thirty-five or thirty-six or something like that. And so, we're still in contact. She sees me on Facebook, I see her on Facebook. And so for me to see her just come through and now she she's a young lady, I'm just like, wow, I'm really getting old here. You know?

BAK:So, what inspired you to become part of that program?

EH:Service. I often tell people that if you take a sample of our blood, me, Leslie, Patrick, Bruce, and even Johnie when he was living, if you take a sample of our DNA, it'll come back "service" because that's what we grew up with. That's what we always saw. My mother, my grandparents, the neighborhood, it was always service. You always volunteered. And so when I got to San Antonio and heard about this mentoring program in this school, it was an elementary school, I said, that's what I wanted to do. Because my plan was when I retired from the military, I was going to be a fourth-grade teacher. [both speaking]

BAK:Fourth grade, the best grade.

EH:The best grade. And so, I got involved with the mentoring program and got involved with Whitney, and actually her family, her mother and her sister. Got to meet, got to know all of them. Okay? And then actually fast forward, when Whitney graduated from high school, I came for her high school graduation because I told her in second grade. You graduate from high school, I need you to do your best, keep trying, don't let anybody tell you you're a failure, you graduate from high school, I'm going to come to your graduation, wherever I'm at in the world. And she held me to that. She remembered. There was a lot of other things I told her to remember, but she remembered that one because when she got to the twelfth grade, we were talking and she said, now you are coming to my graduation, right? Because you told me that. I said, oh yeah. I'm coming. And I was there.

BAK:Okay. Wow! That's amazing. So, what else did you do in your free time? Or I guess you've been there–you had such a long career. I would assume that changed to?

EH:At Fort Sam Houston?

BAK:Yeah. Fort Sam Houston or—?

EH:Like I said, I did a lot of volunteering work, worked at the church. We traveled. So, at age six I started doing piano lessons. And so, my mother, piano lessons at the time when I was age six was two dollars an hour. Okay. They're not two dollars an hour now. Okay? And I played the piano off and on until I was about age twelve. And then because you're a teenager, you do other things. But then when I came on active duty, I would periodically take piano lessons. So, I think when I was at Fort Sam Houston, I periodically took piano lessons. And then I had already completed my two-year degree from Monterey Peninsula College [public community college in Monterey, California] while I was out at Fort Ord. And when I got to Fort Sam Houston, I started my bachelor's work with Wayland Baptist University [private university in Plainview, Texas], a great school. Not simply because I graduated from there, but because this was a school that now we have all this online stuff.

Well, Wayland was doing online. It wasn't online. Wayland was doing distant learning way before everybody else. Because I love the school so much and military people move all the time, a lot of times when you move, you got to move and then you got to go to a new school and start all over. Wayland was one of the schools that were saying, hey, you can stay with us. And so, your credits and everything was stay with us. And that's what they did. They really worked with me when I would go to different assignments. They worked with me. I had to go to the education center and set all of that stuff up so I could stay with Wayland and graduate with Wayland. And I tell you, the military department out there at Wayland really worked with me.

BAK:Okay, great. And what did you graduate with a bachelor of?

EH:I graduated with a bachelor's degree in business administration and management.

BAK:Got it. Okay. So, after your assignment, you are career counseling, and then are moved to oh, back to Fort Gordon, hot Fort Gordon.

EH:So, I was at Fort Sam Houston. Then I went back to Korea again.

BAK:You went back to Korea. Okay.

EH:Yeah. And I was up north. I was at Camp Red Cloud, Second Infantry Division for a year. Again, I'm not really that fond of Korea. So, then I left Korea and went back to Fort Gordon to 15th Signal Brigade. I was on the signal side of the house this time.

BAK:Okay. Do you have any say in anything, where you're going, a wish list?

EH:Sometimes. I did want to go back to Fort Gordon, so I guess you could say I did get what I wanted in that one. But by that time, I was a sergeant first class. So, I'm getting up in rank now.

BAK:And why did you want to get back to Fort Gordon?

EH:Well, it was closer to home. I could drive home to Florida. And I had really great friends there. In fact, the first–one of my mentors, who I'm still in contact now with, the first African American female first sergeant I met while I was at Fort Gordon the first time at the hospital. And like I said, Augusta was hot. And I'm a little E-4, I'm walking across the street, it's hot, and I see this person coming. And I'm thinking this person is an officer because I'm getting ready to salute her. And as she got closer to me, I think I even did a salute. And she was like, soldier don't salute me. And she was a first sergeant, a black female first sergeant. And I was like awestruck.

And so, I found out where she was and actually, she was in the same command that I was in, in Eisenhower. And I went over to her office. And I said, first Sergeant, I told her who I was, and I want to be just like you. And she says, I'm honored that you want to be like me, but I want you to be better than me. The army is changing and you're going to be a part of that change. She says, now I'm old soldier. But you are going to be able to do so much more than I was able to do. So, you be better than me. And I took that advice and that is the person that I modeled my own career after. And her name was First Sergeant Retired Theola Melton.

She still lives there in Augusta. We still talk monthly.And she was another one of those people that along the way in Theola was still there. So that was pretty good. Theola was there. Bob was there. So, a lot of people that was there the first time I was there, they were still there. So that was good. And this time, because I was a sergeant first class, I actually lived off post in Augusta. So that was pretty cool.

BAK:Okay. Wow! Was your husband with you or were you divorced?

EH:No, we were separated at the time.

BAK:Okay. All right. So, Fort Gordon. I want to make sure I didn't. So, it takes us to March

1999. Oh, then you went back to Germany.

EH:Yeah. March of 1999. So that year started off really bad. My grandmother, Willie Mae Davenport died January 30th, 1999. That was my mother's mother. So that was a tough time for us. I was already on assignment because I had gotten promoted. Yeah. I got promoted to E-8. And so, I was on my way back to Germany. This time I was an E-8, master sergeant. And Germany was now unified. So, I was excited about that because I already had all of these places I was going to go to. Okay? And then I was going to the 21st Theater Support Command there in Kaiserslautern, Germany. And Kaiserslautern is kind of the southwestern part of Germany. It was about forty minutes from the northern French border, which the northern part of Francis that Champagne region.

So, then I was an E-8t. And I was going to be working for another really positive person in my life. And his name was Sergeant Major John Anderson. He was the senior career counselor. He was another one of those people pushing me. While I was at Fort Gordon that second time, I won the TRADOC [United States Army Training Doctrine Command] command career counselor of the year. And TRADOC is one of the army major commands. So, I won the career counselor of the year award.

BAK:Wow!

EH:Yeah. Yeah. And John was one of those people that was right there cheering me on and encouraging me. So when I got promoted to E-8—and oh, by the way, when I got promoted to E-8, my mother, my grandfather, my two brothers, Patrick and Bruce and my nephew at the time, I think he was like four, they all came up for my promotion. So that was kind of cool.

So, I was on orders to go to Germany to actually work for John Anderson at the 21st Theater Support Command as his operational career counselor. Great assignment. You asked me a question about one of the best re-enlistments I'd ever done. When I think about Kaiserslautern, one of the best re-enlistments that we had ever done. We had an open house one year there in Kaiserslautern. And we had invited all of these vendors just to have an open house, almost like a job fair. Okay? But the highlight was going to be, we were going to—because we were 21st Theater Support Command. We were going to re-enlist twenty-one soldiers. Okay? We had a couple of them who was actually getting out of the service that was going into the reserves. So, we had those. So, we had twenty-one service members. This was a great day.

And we had a commanding general at the time. His name was Major General Hatch. He did the reenlistment. And it was great. We had ordered all of these nice gifts. I mean, it was great. I think it was supposed to be like two hours. It ended up being like a four- or five-hour event. Okay? We had the AFN [American Forces Network] news station there. We invited other career counselors to come. Oh, it was great. And I think the total years of all of those service members was like 280 years.

BAK:Wow!

EH:That was one of the best re-enlistments that we ever pulled off. Because that took some work. We had a great team. The 21st team was—we called us the first team. Because it was some really great career counselors there working. So that probably was one of my favorites. And then I lived in—because I was an E-8, I got to live off post again. And I lived in a little town called Hohnecken [Germany]. And that was the name of the town, Hohnecken.

BAK:[unclear] doesn't it?

EH:But it was a great town. I had a ball. It was a great time. And I lived in a really nice place. I had a two bedroom. I had a garage. Oh, it was great. And then there was this restaurant there, it was an Italian restaurant. And so, every Thursday, I would go—It was an Italian restaurant. And so, every Thursday, I would go eat Italian food at this restaurant in [unclear]. And I got to know the owners really, really good, but Kaiserslautern was a very unique community, because it had army and air force. So, they called it a purple community, because when you mix green for the army and blue for the air force, you get purple. So, it was referred to as a purple community.

BAK:I've never heard that. Wow! Did your German get better? Had your German gotten better?

EH:A little better, okay? It got a little better while stationed there at the 21st, there was a civilian lady. Her name was Mrs. Schroeder. And she was actually German. I think she was married to a military guy, although I think he had retired and was a civilian working over there, but Mrs. Schroeder was that lady like your grandma. She knew all of our birthdays, she made cookies for us. If you needed something translated from German to English, she was that person. She was that person that did that. She was very heartwarming. Christmas time, she bought little gifts for all of us, and just really, really a nice lady. She would explain in detail the German customs to us, okay? So that you had a better understanding of it. And just really, really a nice, nice lady.

BAK:Well, it sounds great. So unfortunately, that had to end. And then your last duty station was Walter Reed, and you were there five years?

EH:I was there, yeah, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

BAK:I have August 1st, August 2001.

EH:2001. Yeah. [unclear]. Yeah.

BAK:So, you were there to, sorry. October 2006. You were there during 9/11. What was that like?

EH:Yeah. Well, I got back in the states August of 2001. I was here getting transition, getting set up, and I had to go get my car, because I didn't take my car to Germany. My car was actually in Texas, so I had to go get that. But I was in the Pentagon the Friday before, because I was going to meet this friend of mine's for lunch, and she had a meeting or something. So, she said, "Well, okay, well, when you get back, just give me a call and we'll get together." So, I was like, "Okay." And so, I was leaving to go get my car in Texas, and I got my car and I was going to Florida. I'm driving across I-10 [United States interstate highway that begins in Jacksonville, Florida and ends in Los Angles, California]. I'm in Florida. I'm driving across I-10, because I'm going home to Florida. And it was so quiet. Well I hadn't been in the states in, what? Two years, two and a half years, something like that. So, I was just like, "Wow, the roads are so clear."

BAK:Not how you remember them.

EH:And it was just so quiet. I was just like, "Wow!" So, I'd gotten to Tallahassee, and I pulled in to get something to eat or something. Anyway, everything was closed. I was like, "Well, is it a holiday? What is going on?" And I had a cell phone, I got a cell phone, finally. Got back in the states, got a cell phone, and my cell phone wasn't working. It kept saying roaming, because you could tell I'm telling my age now. It said roaming, okay?

BAK:I remember it.

EH:I'm like, "Okay, well we're in Tallahassee. Okay." And I had my Sprint phone. So, I go into the mall, and the mall, I was like, "Where's everybody at?" And I'll never forget, it was RadioShack [American electronics retail store]. And if you remember in RadioShack, they would always have all of the televisions in the window, okay? So, everybody's standing around. I said, "Well, what is going on?" So, I go and stand there and look too, and at that point, I see the plane crashing into the World Trade Center, and I'm like, "Wow, what movie is this?" And this guy turns to me and says, "That's not a movie." I'm like, "It's not?" He says, "Where have you been?" I said, "I've been driving." And so, I'm standing there, he's telling me what has happened.

So somehow or another, my phone starts getting signals and I had something like twenty-five calls, and fifteen of them was from my mother, okay? And so, I called her, and she says, "Where are you?" And I said, "I'm in Tallahassee." I said, "What is going on?" She says, "You need to get here as soon as you can." And so, I'm like, "Well, I'm on my way." I get back in my car and I'm driving down US-19 [American highway that begins in Erie, Pennsylvania and ends in Memphis, Florida] and I get home. And I'm like, "What happened?" And then finally, I'm looking at the news and I'm just like, "That that happened today?" It was just so unreal to me. And up here, you couldn't even call back up here because roaming and signal jamming. I mean, it was crazy. So, my friend, she had called and left a message to tell me that she was okay, that she didn't go to work that morning, because something had happened, and she didn't go. And of course, I'm trying to call her and trying the call back up here. It was a mess. It was a mess. It really was. Yeah.

BAK:So, I mean, you kind of knew you weren't going to be deployed into a combat zone, I would imagine, but I mean, everything kind of changed [unclear].

EH:Well, that's when President [George Walker] Bush, the second Bush, gets on television and says, "We are going to war." And so, every military person, when he or she hears that word, I don't know. I think we mentally get ready because we may have to go. My mother just went ballistic because she was like, "You're not going, you're not going, right? You're not going," because by now, both sets of her parents were now deceased. And so, she stayed glued to the television. So, if anything happened, she would be calling me, "Are you going? Are you going?" "Mom, stop looking at," I had to tell her, "Don't look at the television." But what do you do? You sit there, it's all over the television. And I had already made up in my mind that if I had to go, I was going, it wasn't going to be something I was thinking about. If I was going, I was going.

And I already made all of the preparations, I talked to my brothers and said, "Hey, if I have to go, I need you all to come up here and do this, this, this, this, and this." And so, they were ready. They had it in their mind, "Okay, if she has to go, then okay." I said, "I just need you to keep mama cool, calm." Because her parents were not living anymore, but still we still had that Ridgecrest, I knew that the people at Ridgecrest would be there for her. And I was stationed there at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where they were bringing in all of the wounded. And there were days that it was tough to see them, because most of them were eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one-year olds. And it was tough sometimes to see them. It was tough to see the bus and the LAMS [Large Area Maintenance Shelters] pull up and you see them taking out the casualties. That was tough some days.

But I will say that Walter Reed, they were devoted. They were caring. I mean, they did their job there. Those medical personnel, everybody there did their job too. And because when the soldiers were initially injured there in the war zone, it was that emergency care that they got from those medical teams that I believe saved their lives. This was not another Vietnam. Those medical professions had been training for this. They knew what they were doing, and because of their training, they saved a lot of lives. Excuse me, one minute, I've got to dis-alarm my alarm. Sorry about that. And Walter Reed became the focal point for those service members coming back. Many of them had lost limbs, meaning more than one. But the professionalism that all showed there at Walter Reed is one of the reasons I believe that a lot of the service members or former service members walking around now is because of the training that the medical personnel got.

BAK:Well, how did it affect you? I mean, the medical professionals would have been affected. [both speaking]

EH:There were a couple of days, because here I am, I'm seeing kids. These are nineteen-year- olds who have lost limbs, but I will tell you, these kids, it was not a good day. One day I remember it wasn't a good day. And so, I'm sitting in my office, and this kid probably was twenty or twenty-one, had come by my office. And he had lost both his legs, I'm not sure, but he said, "Master Sergeant, can I talk to you?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And anyway, he wanted to stay on active duty. And I'm just kind of like, "You want to do what?" He says, "Oh yeah. I want to stay on active and go back to my job."

And I was just stunned, and I think he had lost both legs. "You don't have no legs," but he was ready. He says, "It happened and I'm ready to still serve." And you had that with those injured that came there, they still wanted to serve. And so, I was glad to see that the army was allowing service members to stay on active duty that had lost limbs, okay? Because if they were in the civilian sector, you would have to make accommodations for them because of the ADA, the American Disability Act. If they were in the civilian sector, you would have to make it. So, I mean, I understand that you probably can't jump out of an airplane, but there's another job that they can do. So why can't we allow them to stay on active duty, okay?

So, I was glad to see that the army was agreeing with me, that yeah, these service members get well enough and they still want to stay in the army, okay. Let's do it. So that's what I saw. And like I said, it was tough some days to see them, these kids, because they like, "Okay, well I'm hurt now, but I'm going to get better. And I'm going to get back on active duty." Most of them wanted to stay. They wanted to stay.

BAK:Wow! Well, you were there a long time until you retired. Was there any other things you want to talk about at Walter Reed or want to go on to your retirement? I guess you had to retire. I'm not ever quite sure.

EH:Well, I actually was ready to retire at twenty years, but I had just come from Germany. So, I had to stay. I had to come and then stay another year. And then when that year was up, my mother was having knee surgery, so I kind of stayed on active duty because she was having knee surgery. And then in 2003, well, no. Yeah. Then I decided that I was going to go and get a master's, and this thing called online education was just coming out. So, I was one of them Guinea pigs. Now, you want to know what's crazy? Starting an online master's degree program, and you go and retire in two years, and you still on active duty. Yeah, that's really crazy, because online was new, and I went to University of Phoenix, so I'm a Phoenix, and they were just starting up this online program.

And I was like, "Okay, this might be pretty interesting because you mean I can go to school, do everything on my laptop, and get a degree? Oh, well, okay. They wheel you in, because they make it seem so easy. And the first couple of classes, yeah, they probably easy, and then when you start getting into it, you got to be like, "Oh my God." And I had decided to retire, so I'm getting ready for that, because I had made up in my mind that I was not going to school when I got out, when I retired, I just was not, okay? So. I'm trying to finish up because I'm not going. And then the army was paying most of my tuition. So, I was just like, "Oh, I got to get this done." And then I'm going through retirement process, and I made it. So, in 2006, May of 2006, I graduated from the University of Phoenix with a master's degree in human resource management, and then couple of months later, I retired from active duty.

BAK:Wow!

EH:That's what I said.

BAK:Wow! And then I guess you napped for a while after you got out?

EH:Well, I took the trip the summer of 2006, because I had a retirement ceremony up here, and then I went home to Florida and had a retirement ceremony there in Largo, because everybody knew I was retiring, but I went on a trip. I had started my quest to see all fifty states, and thanks to the US army, while on active duty, I think I saw twenty-eight, maybe twenty-nine of the fifty states. And so that year in 2006, I think I did five states. I did South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho. Yeah. Five states. Great bus tour. Yeah.

BAK:Okay, cool. So, is there anything you want to talk about the retirement? Because I'm going to go to other questions that are not chronological.

EH:Retirement, I was ready. I had thought about it for a long time. I was ready. I was ready. I prayed about it for a long time and I was ready. I was ready. I have no regrets. When people ask me, do I miss it? No, I don't. "Well, don't you miss the people?" I was like, "Oh no, I keep in contact with all of them." Which I do, and I often say this. I don't know why the post office is in the red because I keep the post office busy. I'm always writing letters and cards. So, I don't know why the post office is in the red, okay?

BAK:Well, we appreciate that because it needs all the help it can get.

EH:Yeah, I keep in contact with everybody, so no, I don't miss it. I don't miss it. And I was ready. I had a great career and it was time to do something else.

BAK:Okay. So, as I said, we're going to non-chronological questions. What was your most memorable decoration or award that you received?

EH:On active duty?

BAK:Yeah. I mean, if you don't have an answer, that's fine. I'm not grading you.

EH:Probably when I was, well, yeah, when I was stationed at Fort Sam Houston, I won the Fort Sam Houston mentor of the year award. And I had Whitney and this other little girl that I was mentoring. Her name was Leticia. I had them with me when I got the award. That was very memorable. And the fact that when I had won TRADOC [United States Army Training and Doctrine Command] “Career Counselor of the Year” award, while I was stationed at Fort Gordon the second time.

BAK:Let's see, [unclear] mentoring we talked about, AIT. Did you experience or witness any discrimination on the job, either being a woman or being African American?

EH:Yeah, but so, okay. So, my parents were very strong people, so I actually blame everything on them.

BAK:Okay. Blame or credit? Okay.

EH:Yeah. I blame everything on them. So even as a kid growing up, we were told, "Don't let anybody push you around, stick up for yourself." So, there were times in the military, now I didn't ever experience any sexual trauma, okay? Never, never, never did that happen. But I experienced discrimination for the fact that I was a woman and I was a black woman, got called the N word a couple of times. And that, to me, be being called the "N" word, you know what? I think I told one guy when he called me that, I just turned around to him and said, "Please don't call me by your mother's first name." And that was the end of that.

BAK:Wow! Now, was he a peer or was he, I guess, a soldier with you or civilian?

EH:I don't even think I knew this guy, and I can't remember exactly where I was, but it was, "You're not supposed to be here," Okay? Yeah, I am. And then there was [both speaking.

BAK:Army? Or in that, wherever particular, the place you were at?

EH:Was it what now?

BAK:According to him, you weren't supposed to be in the army, or you weren't supposed to be in the particular physical place?

EH:Both. Both.

BAK:Oh, wow Okay.

EH:There were times that a man had even said to me, early nineties, that, "Women have no right to be in the army." And It just kind of looked at this guy like, "Really? What do you mean women don't have a right?" Women are supposed to not be, they shouldn't be allowed to be in the army. And some law was changing that was allowing women to, I think, get into the military prep schools or something. I can't remember. But anyway, something major was happening for women. And I looked at this guy and said, "So have you ever heard of Harriet Tubman?" He was like, "Well, she wasn't in the army." I was like, "Really? Boy, you must've failed history then, okay?" I said, "Let me tell you something. Women have been in the military since the very beginning, since the Revolutionary War coming forward. And you're going to say," even some women, because these women weren't on active duty, they didn't think that women belonged in the service. I'm just like, "What?

And I just remember telling this guy, I said, "So if your daughter wanted to go in the army, you would object?" "Oh yeah," and it was almost like hearing my dad all over again, okay? And I just was like, "Man, I hope this guy never becomes president." Wow. But yeah. And this was the early nineties, which is not that far away, So, yeah, there was those those times. But again, having already been told that by my parents, "Don't let anybody push you around, stick up for what you think is right." Yeah. So, I guess I kind of was headstrong on that subject.

[Harriet Tubman was an American abolitionist and social activist. Born into slavery, she escaped and subsequently made some thirteen missions to rescue approximately seventy enslaved people, including family and friends, using the Underground Railroad. During the American Civil War, Tubman served as an armed scout and spy for the Union Army. In her later years, she was an activist in the movement for women's suffrage.]

BAK:Okay. So, you're there a very long time. Is there any notable changes that you saw in the army over the course of your career? You had mentioned a few times that your mentors were like, "The army is changing." Is there anything that stuck out?

EH:Oh yeah. I got to see, well, this was when I was off active duty, but hey, the army started changing. So, when I first came in the army, you didn't wear sneakers for PT, for physical exercise, physical training, you wore your fatigue pants, and you wore boots. And that's what you ran in. That's what you exercise in. And while I was stationed in Hanau, that the army got the policy of, now you could wear sneakers, okay? Well, nobody owns sneakers, because what do you need sneakers for? So, we all had to go buy sneakers. So, I saw that change. I saw the change because single people were kind of treated like dirt. I hate to say that, but single people were kind of treated like dirt. So, I started seeing the improvement with single soldiers. We started getting better living conditions. We started getting better looking barracks. We started getting the more living like we were living on our own. I started seeing that. I started seeing more women, not only come in, but stay in, okay?

I started to, even in my own field of career counseling, I started seeing more women come in to be career counselors. I started seeing more people of color come in to be a career counselor. I started seeing jobs, MOSs opened up to women, okay? And now, combat arms is open up to women, air defense, artillery, I mean, you have women that are in special forces now, okay? I wasn't on active duty. I was retired when I saw my first female four-star [general], Ann E. Dunwoody, get promoted to four-star. How about that? Okay? And she earned it. She earned it. And then a couple of years later, I saw my first female African American four-star. She was in the navy, Michelle Howard. And I was like, "Okay. I mean, the glass ceiling is just breaking up here."

And I just was like, "Wow!" Women, we are chipping away at that glass ceiling, okay? And in the military, it is cracking, okay? You're start seeing, I mean, we now have a female secretary of the army, I think that's what she is, I think, okay? And we have a African-American that's a secretary of defense. I almost went into cardiac arrest after that one, okay? Shoot. And we got a black female vice-president? Oh yeah. I'm just like, "Oh, okay, I can't take all of this right now." But to see that glass ceiling, to see that women coming in now, the opportunities are endless now. And that's because of the women that came before us, like the 6888 Central Postal Directory [Battalion]. The women that endured all of this hardship and only God knows what else they did. They laid the foundation for women like me and the women behind me so that we can have more successful, more job openings, a better career than they did. That's amazing.

BAK:Yes. Is there something, if someone's to ask you, like me, what was the most rewarding aspect about your military experience? Would you have a simple answer or not?

EH:Being able to do what I wanted to do and get promoted in doing it. That's why I say that career counseling is the best job ever, because every day when I went home, I could say, "What did I do today to help better the life of a service member and his or her family?" That was always fulfilling.

BAK:Okay. Now, was, was your impression? I mean, you were in so long. Were there certain political or military leaders that you protect the—Political or military leaders that you protect that had strong feelings about either positive or negative?

EH:I'm sure there was, I just can't think of any right now.

BAK:Well, president, secretary of defense, chiefs, vice presidents.

EH:I'm sure it was.

BAK:Okay. All right. What are your thoughts about the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"? Was that 2013? And if she breaked that down.

EH:Next question.

BAK:Okay. What are your thoughts about Secretary of Defense [Leon] Panetta removing restrictions for women in combat arms in 2013?

EH:Okay. I wouldn't go into combat arms, but that's just me. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea, personally, my own personal opinion of that. It's just not because I don't think women can do it, if you think you can do it, then fine. I just think that combat is hard, because I often remember Vietnam, my uncle was in Vietnam, my dad was in the Korean war. It's hard. Men and women are built differently. I often think not every country obeys the Geneva Conventions. The torture that they could do to women, it's just unbearable to me. That's why I personally do not agree with women going into combat, because I'm thinking more of that, that way. What can happen to women in combat by other countries, because not everybody obeys the Geneva Conventions.

If a woman feels that she can be infantry men, a special force person, the Delta Force. She wants to jump out of airplanes. She wants to go into air defense artillery. If you think that you can do that, then okay. But don't lower the standards. Keep the standards the same, because you are training as if it was real life. If a woman wants to go into those MOSs, it's fine. But don't say every woman wants to go into MOS, to jobs like that, because every woman doesn't want to go into jobs like that. I don't want to go into jobs like that. I thought that way at twenty. I would not jump out of no airplanes. I don't like field duty at all. I'm not a person that likes heat. There are women doing very good things in those fields now.

BAK:Okay. You retired in October 2006. What did you do next, and what was your transition back to civilian life after so many decades?

EH:Yes. Like I said, I had—did a lot of preparing. I prayed a lot, because I certainly is asking God, "Please help me in this," because I had spent all of my twenties, all of my thirties, and halfway through my forties in the military, in a very controlled atmosphere. I never had to go on an interview. I got promoted just by doing the right things. All of my moves were paid for. I got to see a lot of places. Then, every year I got a pay raise, and I didn't even have to ask for a pay raise. Now, I'm getting ready to transition out to the civilian sector. Well, when you're in the—especially the field that I'm in, you get to hear all these horror stories. I was paying attention because I said, "Okay, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. Oh, no. That's not going to happen to me, either." I'm learning from lot of people that came back and told me what they did or didn't do.

I think, one of the things that helped me was the fact that I was a career counselor. I have my hands in just about every little aspect of getting out, transitioning out. I knew people. I was just like, "Oh, okay." And I had a plan. I was going to go, and I had my master’s. I wanted to be a fourth-grade teacher. I was going to go back to school and get a teaching certificate, so I could teach fourth grade, because I was going to do that for like four or five years. Then, I was going to go up the ranks and into the administration, be a vice principal, and then my goal was to be a principal.

Of course, it didn't work like that, but hey. I was ready. Financially, I was ready because I paid off my car, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to buy my own place." Yes, I had a plan. I took that great vacation so that I could separate or depress from active duty to the civilian life. People ask me the one thing that I did that helped, I tell them that I took a vacation and I was gone for about a month.

BAK:Okay. Sorry, it seems you did a lot of prep work. What did you do?

EH:When I got out?

BAK:Yes.

EH:Oh, okay. I got off of active duty and I started working at an elementary school here in Greenbelt as a teacher's assistant, because I'm saying, "Okay, so I got to be a teacher's assistant first, then I'm going to get my teaching certificate, so I can teach fourth grade because I ain't going to teach nothing else. I do that for like four or five years. That'll put me on road to be—Because I want to be a vice principal, and then I want to be a principal." That was the plan, and that didn't work though. Because when teachers say they don't make no money, believe them, it's true. Even now that baffles me, because I'm just like, "Well, why don't teachers make money?" Especially now, after what we went though. I'm just like, "Really Teachers need to make a whole lot more money."

After the teaching thing didn't work out and I had to make that tough decision to leave it, it was actually one of my mentors said, "Look." Mrs. Turner, she's the one that told me. She says, "I am not disappointed in you. What I want you to do is I want you to go and do whatever you're going to do." She said, "Because you can always come back to teaching." At that moment, I said, "Okay, she's okay with me not being a fourth-grade teacher yet." I went and I came back to the Federal Government as a contractor at Walter Reed. I was still here in Washington, D.C.

BAK:That was what I was going to ask you, why you were in Maryland, but it makes sense.

EH:I had said in part of this praying that I did, "God, I want to get into the Federal Government. I'm want to give myself five years to get into the federal [service] after retirement." That was 2006 plus five years. I was like, "Okay. So, by 2011, God, I want to be a Federal Government employee." I'm praying. I got to Walter Reed as a contractor, 2007. And 2009, that job was converted into a Federal Government employee. In 2009 December, I became a Federal Government employee.

BAK:Okay. What are you doing with the Federal Government?

EH:What am I doing now?

BAK:Yes.

EH:Now, I work at the Department of Veteran Affairs. I work at an agency that works for veterans. I call myself, "I'm employed, self-employed," because I worked for the Department of Veteran Affairs, and their job is to work for veterans.

BAK:Okay. That's different than the VA?

EH:That is the VA.

BAK:Oh, okay. Veterans Affairs, so you actually work for the VA. All right.

EH:I actually worked for the Department of Veteran Affairs. We have a great secretary now, his name is Secretary [Denis R.] McDonough, and he is just a great guy, he really is.

BAK:Okay, great. Would you recommend the service to young women and men today?

EH:Yes.

BAK:Okay. What does the word patriotism mean to you?

EH:We, the United States of America. After September 11 happened, everybody saw this. Everybody came together. There were flags everywhere. Like I said, I was in Florida, and I drove back up here. I'm driving on the highway, going through towns, every truck, car, motorcycle, went through smaller town, had a flag. To me, that was the first time that I had saw all of America come together, because some group had come into our country and started a war. Every single soul was like— I think if the draft was going on at that time, the whole country would have been drafted, because everybody came together. You saw that they were waving flags. They were proud. They were not going to let someone come in here in our country and do this and get away with it.

One of the most patriotic things that I saw was President Bush got on television that night after there had been threats and they try to blow up the White House. He said, "I'm not leaving." Because they were trying to get him to go in the bunker. He was like, "No, I am not going to be afraid. They are not going to run me out of this White House. I am going to stay right here." I had never been more proud of him than that moment. He says, "I am not going." To see him, here it is, the president of the United States that made everybody else say, "You know what, I'm not going, either. I'm going to stay right here." He got on national television and said that, that to me just had patriotic written all over it. To me, that's probably one of the most patriotic things that I had seen.

BAK:Okay. Is there anything in particular you would want a civilian to know or understand about what it is like to serve in the military that they may not understand or appreciate?

EH:Well, I think now they do understand. They understand the meaning of Memorial Day. They have a better understanding of the meaning of Veterans Day in November.

BAK:When we're post-9/11? Or—

EH:I think because of post-9/11, and what happened after that. Right after that, there was a boom. Everybody wanted to come in and serve. Everybody wanted to come and serve. Everybody wants to do their part, because others had come in and started war on our... This is our country. They're going to start a war on us. I think, now, people understand when you say the sacrifice, the commitment, the devotion, the dedication. I think they have a better understanding of it now than when I first came in 1981. Because I'll tell you, growing up, I don't ever remember staying out of school for Veterans Day. We went to school Veterans Day. Now, it's a national holiday.

You did not see the big parades, and nobody ever said, "Thank you for your service." Maybe that was because of Vietnam, I don't know. But you did. Even those early days in my career, you didn't hear that. Now, I'm not saying, "Should military be worshiped?" No. I'm just saying, you have more people more aware of what the sacrifices that people in the service do. I often tell people, "I missed a lot of birthdays. I missed a lot of weddings. I missed a lot of funerals." Because I was not able to come. And the military is voluntary, there is not a draft. People volunteer. They are volunteering to come on active duty. I think now, people are now more aware and they're teaching their children. I was out in Kentucky last week and one of the staff members introduced me to his two sons. I think they were like six and four, five and four. Anyway, they're kid, and one of them came up to me and said, "Thank you for your service." I tell you, it just kind of took me there for a moment.

You could see, he really meant it. They're teaching their kids that, you know what... I often say this a lot and I would say it when I would go home that we enjoy so many freedoms that other countries don't. One in particular is freedom of religion. I'm a Baptist, you might be a Methodist or Catholic, but it was our choice. Do you know there are people in other countries that get killed for being a certain religion or not being a certain religion? Here we are, we have that right for you, freedom of religion. That is something.

BAK:I don't have any more formal questions about you, but is there anything else that you want to add that I didn't ask you about?

EH:Not that I can think of, right now. I will tell you that my career, the twenty-five years, ten months, and twenty-six days. Someone asked me several years ago, if I could describe it, what would it be? I just simply said, "A fantastic voyage." That's to sum up my career, where there were bad days, there were bad decisions, there were tough times, but it was all of those mentors and having that, my mom, my grandparents, that village of people. That was the foundation that I stood on.

The 6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion. I always remember seeing that picture of Charity Adams inspecting these black women. I would always say, "Well, where's that unit at? Because that's the unit that I want to be in." Because all of those women looked like me. I tell you; it wasn't up until like in the 90's, but I was saying that—Because you always saw the picture. You saw it from Black History Month, Women's Equality Month, and nobody knew the story. Not until this one person said, "You know, I think that's a World War II unit." I was like, "Really?" He was like, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure." I'm like, "Oh, okay." Well, I just kept the picture. It wasn't until I think, it was like 2002 or 2003 January when I learned the death of Charity Adams, who was the commander. Well, Charity Adams Earley had died. One of the ladies handed me this book called One Woman's Army, and it was Charity Adams Early’s autobiography. I've read it.

I was like, "Why didn't somebody give me this book when I was like a E-4? This book needs to be on all reading lists. As a matter of fact, I give that book to my friend. When I was in Kentucky, I gave it to a young E-4 who is in the Kentucky National Guard, going to Eastern Kentucky University on a ROTC scholarship. I gave that book to her. I said, "Read this book. It is going to change your life." She's reading it now, because she wants to be a lawyer. Then, she wants to be a judge, but she wants to go on active duty. I can see her, the Supreme Court. I can see her.

It is ladies like that in the Six Triple Eight that I am forever thankful for. People like Theola, and Bob, and Connie, and of course, Martin Pate, and my mother. Like I said, my dad never came around, but that was okay. I got through that. And my grandparents, they are those shoulders that I stood on, and was able to raise up to the rank, and do, even now, do the things that I want to do because I had that solid foundation. When people ask me, "Can you talk to my child about going into the military?" Or, "Talk him or her to go into the military?" I said, "Well, I won't do that, but I will talk to them about it." Because the military is not for everybody. It's very structured. You got to hurry up and wait sometimes, although, I think, they do less waiting now. But I do believe that going into the military for at least two or three years will do more good than harm. I do believe that.

[Charity Adams Earley (1918-2002) was the first African American woman to be an officer in the Women's Army Auxiliary Corps (later WACS) and was the commanding officer of the first battalion of African-American women to serve overseas during World War II.]

BAK:Okay. Usually, I end here, but I'll just give you even a few more minutes to talk about how you got involved with the Six Triple Eight [6888th Central Postal Directory Battalion] monument project.

EH:That's a whole another interview.

BAK:Okay. Okay. So that can't be. [both speaking]

EH:I will say, I got involved because somebody handed me a piece of paper, a poster that they were raising money to build a monument for the Six Triple Eight. I actually thought they already had a monument. I tell people, do not write a letter asking somebody, "How can I help?" And not expect to get an answer back because that's what I did. I sent him my money for the donation. At the time, a Mr. Carlton Philpot, who is a Commander, United States Navy, Retired, he calls me, and he said—Now he tells the story different— he calls me and he says, "Miss, I got your letter and what I need you to do is, there's another person that lives in Laurel, I need you two to get together and you all can be the East Coast Six Triple Eight project team. That person was Edna Comings. Edna and I live about ten minutes from each other. We met that day over here at Red Hot & Blue, and as they say, the rest is history.

But I got involved because somebody handed me a flyer to build a Six Triple Eight monument. [both speaking] And it just took off.

BAK:All right. Well, thank you very much for your time, unless there's anything else, I'll let you have the rest of the evening there. I'm going to stop recording. Where we're going to go next is, Zoom is going to send—we could send the cloud now. It's going to send me a link to recording. I will send that to you, which you can download if you want to have the video recording. You have to do that within a month.

EH:I may have to call you for that.

BAK:Okay. That's not a problem because we can certainly do it that way, too. We have been doing the transcribing in-house, but I'm actually going to send it out because I have a backlog to a commercial place. Once I get the transcript, I'll send you a copy and you can look it over. You could just correct misspellings. You still there?

EH:Yes. I'm still here

BAK:Okay. Or if there's anything that you're like, "Wow, I shouldn't have said that." We can talk about it because this is not a gotcha thing. Then, you send me some pictures. If you've got any more during your military service, that's great. We'll make you a collection and we'll put that online.

EH:Okay.

BAK:Okay?

EH:Alrighty.

BAK:Well, thank you so very much for your time. All right, bye.

EH:Thank you. All right. Bye.

[End of Interview]