Oral history interview with Odra Onate

WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECT

ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

INTERVIEWEE:Odra Ornella Oñate

INTERVIEWER:Beth Ann Koelsch

DATE: 14 December 2022

[Begin Interview]

OO:No.

BAK:Okay. Well, we can certainly think about it.

OO:Okay.

BAK:All right, so I think we're recording. Okay. All right. And we decided to say it's the 14th. Okay, great.

OO:Yes.

BAK:All right. Hello.

OO: Hi.

BAK:Today is December 14th, 2022. My name is Beth Ann Koelsch. And I'm here in Jackson Library in Greensboro, North Carolina to conduct an oral history interview for the Women Veterans Historical Project at UNCG [University of North Carolina at Greensboro]. Odra, if you could state the name, the way you would like it to read on your collection.

OO:Yes, Odra Ornella Oñate.

BAK:Okay. Can you tell me when and where you were born?

OO:Yes. I was born in Guayaquil, Ecuador, and I was born in 1980.

BAK:Okay. And tell me about your family, your folks, your siblings.

OO:I have, so it's my mom and dad, and I have a brother that I grew up with, but I also have a half-brother.

BAK:Okay.

OO:That I always knew about, so I don't deny him. And we lived in Ecuador. I was seven when we finally moved to the United States.

BAK:Okay.

OO:My aunt who lived here in New York, she requested us to move here when I was born.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And it took seven years for that to be approved through the lawyers and everything.

BAK:Right.

OO:So when I was seven, we moved here, but a little bit backtrack, so I was born in my grandparents' house in Ecuador.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And we lived with my grandparents until I was seven, and we moved here.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And we moved to the Bronx, New York. Well, we went to Brooklyn first where my aunt lived, and we stayed there for a few months until my parents worked and got on their feet. And then we moved to the Bronx. And so I grew up in the Bronx the rest of the time. I went back to Ecuador once when I was eleven, and I went to school in New York, graduated from Evander Childs High School in the Bronx.

BAK:Were you excited to move to New York? I mean, what did you remember when you were, I mean, that's crazy. Big change.

OO:Yes. I didn't know what was going to happen honestly, so it was weird. I remember having dreams about flying because they would tell me we were going on a plane.

BAK:Right.

OO:I remember having dreams about flying, and I didn't know. I remember I thought—We had a bench. We had a bench, and for some reason, I was seven, I thought we were going to go in the bench.

BAK:Oh, I like it.

OO:It's weird. But when you're a kid.

BAK:If you liked you got to keep the bench.

OO:When you're a kid, you don't know.

BAK:No.

OO:I remember having dreams about it, and it was a struggle once I got here because of the language. Even though in New York, there are a lot of people that speak Spanish. In school, I had to learn English, and so that was tough.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Did your folks speak English at all?

OO:No ma'am, no.

BAK:Wow!

OO:We all spoke Spanish.

BAK:That's a lot to put on a kid, but yeah.

OO:Yes, it is.

BAK:So you stayed in the Bronx through high school and graduated?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay. Did you like school?

OO:I did, I loved school. Yes.

BAK:Okay, what was your—

OO:And I loved reading.

BAK:Okay. What was your favorite subject?

OO:English.

BAK:English.

OO:English was my favorite subject.

BAK:And would you like to read just?

OO:I liked Shakespeare a lot, I loved poetry. I still love poetry. And I used to write poetry back then, and then I stopped.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And you know life, you get busy. But actually being here at UNCG, one of my classes I took last semester, we had to write poetry, and it brought back that love for me for poetry.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:So I've written like five.

BAK:That's great.

OO:Yeah, yes, so I was so grateful to my professor. I was like, oh my God, I used to love poetry and it's back.

BAK:Oh, that's very nice.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Well, this might want to take this out of the transcript, but we do have a lot of very old books and probably some very old, old additions of Shakespeare amongst other things, we have artist books.

OO:That's awesome. Thank you.

BAK:You can certainly come up and look at those. Okay, so back to the veterans here.

OO:Yes.

BAK:What year did you graduate?

OO:1998.

BAK:1998. Okay, so graduate high school. Did you know what you wanted to do next?

OO:Okay, so in high school I wanted to go to college because I love school. But I have an older brother, and he was already in college. He was going to Fashion Institute of Technology, and he was studying illustration. And while I was in high school, one of my friends, she tried to join the army, and so I was going to go with her as the buddy system. But at the time, I was seventeen, and the army recruiters came to my house because my parents had to sign the paper that I could join the army. And my parents refused in front of the guy. They were like, no, we're not going to let you go, so I ended up not joining the army.

BAK:Did you want to join the army?

OO:I did with my friend.

BAK:Oh, you wanted to go with your friend, okay.

OO:Yes, we were doing the buddy system.

BAK:And what is the buddy system in terms of enlisting?

OO:I think they gave us, you could go up in rank instead of a coming in as a E-1, if you brought a buddy with you, you could go to rank of E-2.

BAK:Interesting.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:I did not know that. Okay.

OO:Yeah. And then you get to go to bootcamp together and you get to do all that stuff together. Yes, my best friend in the navy, she joined in the buddy system and her best friend went in together.

BAK:And they the same, they get a bonus rank there, skip a rank?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I'm pretty sure that's what it was, the incentive, yes.

BAK:Okay. And did you say your friend wanted to go and you just wanted to be a good friend, or did you really want to join the army?

OO:Okay. I wanted to join.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:I wanted to join. Since my brother was already in school, I didn't want to put that burden on my parents of me staying at home and going to school as well. And I had actually been accepted to about three colleges because I had applied to college.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I had good, I can't remember the tests, what it's called.

BAK:SAT [Scholastic Assessment Test]?

OO:Yes. I had good SAT scores, and I had been accepted to a few colleges, and I knew that I didn't want to put a financial burden on them, so that's why I was going to join the army so that I could use the GI Bill, because that's what they told us.

BAK:Right, right.

OO:But since they didn't sign my papers, and this was one of the little kind of hard things that I did, is my English class, which was my favorite English class, English was my favorite subject. And that teacher, Mr. Levine? Yes. He had two navy recruiters come to class one day. And so they talked about the navy and that white uniform they had, it was really nice. And I started speaking with the recruiters for the navy. And at the time, I didn't know exactly what rank I wanted to be or anything, but I decided to join the navy. And at this point, it was April, so it had already passed my birth, my 18th birthday had come, so I was able to sign up without my parents’ permission.

BAK:What were your parents, did they give you specific reasons they didn't want to sign?

OO:They didn't, I was just their little girl. I was their only girl, so they did not want me to leave. They didn't give me a reason. They just—I guess they couldn't stand for me to leave.

BAK:So if you had joined the Peace Corps or something, it would've been the same thing?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:It wasn't specifically about the military. Okay.

OO:Right, right.

BAK:Okay.

OO:It was not about that.

BAK:And they wanted you just to stay with them?

OO:Yes, ma'am. Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And as I explained earlier, I grew up in my grandparents' house.

BAK:Right.

OO:And my dad and my uncle lived there, so I guess it's just partially the culture, you know, you kind of stay home until you get married or something like that, so I think that was a big role in that.

BAK:Okay, so you signed the papers and came home?

OO:Yes, so my brother went with me to Brooklyn to do the physical, and it was a eight hour thing, and my parents didn't know.

BAK:What did they do for eight hours?

OO:Actually, it was a weekend, and I think they were working, both my parents worked.

BAK:No, just the physical took eight hours?

OO:Oh, yes, yes. Because they do everything. They do every inspection, and then there's a lot of paperwork too. And there are a lot of people, so I think a lot of waiting, waiting for the doctor to see you, the ears, the eyes, everything.

BAK:Okay.

OO:It was a while, plus the commute there from the Bronx. So anyways, my parents didn't know I was there, and I signed up, I signed the contract, and I did not tell them that I had done that. And my brother, I remember, he still feels bad about it, but he left me because he was hungry, and we were there for so long. He was in the waiting area. He's like, what are you doing? Why are they keeping you for so long? And he left me, and he recently apologized again for leaving me because he felt so bad. But I'm like, it's okay, I made it home. But Beth Ann, what I did is I came home, and I have my contract, my signed contract, and I remember I threw it on the table and I said, I signed up to the navy, I'm leaving August 4th and you cannot stop me.

BAK:Wow!

OO:And it was very hard on them, yes. Once I left, apparently, they didn't talk very much because they just felt like a part of them was gone.

BAK:Oh gosh!

OO:Yes. It was hard. My mom said, "It took us five months to like be okay." I was like, wow! I never knew.

BAK:Wow!

OO:Because she told me that recently, about three years ago, she had finally admitted that she's like, we used to cry, we were very sad. And I was like, I'm sorry, but they're proud of me now.

BAK:Yeah, yeah.

OO:But at that time, it was difficult on them. But I said, I have to do what I have to do to make my own life. And I didn't want to be a burden to them. And I don't think at the time they understood that. And probably I didn't explain it, but I wanted to be on my own. I didn't want to stay in New York.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Did you have an idea; did you have a certain dream college you wanted to go to?

OO:I wanted to go to [Cornell University in] Ithaca.

BAK:Ithaca, okay.

OO:Yes, so that was my dream college.

BAK:So you wanted to stay in New York State?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Just out the city, okay. And I forgot to ask, what did your folks do for work?

OO: Oh, my dad, he worked at Citibank for the longest time. It's one of the buildings in Queens. It's like fifty floors. Yes, he worked in like food services.

BAK: Okay.

OO: Then my mom at the time, where does she work? She has had several jobs, so I think at the time she worked for this lady, Joan Fagan is fashion design.

BAK:Okay.

OO:She worked in Manhattan.

BAK:So kind of fashion. Your family's into fashion and so in some way or another?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay. All right, cool. All right, so when you signed up, did you talk about with your recruiter what you wanted to do and where he or she put you?

OO:I don't remember. I came in un-designated.

BAK:Okay.

OO:So we did not talk about it. I came in as a non-designated seaman, so I went to Seaman ATD School, which was about three weeks. It was right after bootcamp, and it was in [Naval Station] Great Lakes [near Chicago, Illinois].

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay, and what did you learn there?

OO:It's basics about the ship and navy Life.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay, so it's sort of bonus instruction about the navy.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay, so how was your bootcamp experience?

OO:It was good, I loved it. I loved the working out. I know at the time it was hard, but I lost like twenty-eight pounds in bootcamp. My best friend and I, we always joked, she was in bootcamp with me. We always joked that we wanted to go to bootcamp again, so we can lose the weight, but I don't know, I liked the leadership. And it was tough because they would do RDC [recruit division commanders] parties. RDC is what they used to call the drill instructors back when I went, that's what we used to call them, I can't remember the RDC. Recruit drill, I can't recall. But we called them RDCs. They would come in the middle of the night and make us push our beds, our bunk beds to the wall. And then we had to do pushups and sit ups, and they'd be eating popcorn, I remember that.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:But I liked it. And we had a brother division, and I thought it was a good experience. I don't think I knew what it would be like, but we had to stencil our uniforms. We had to iron, we had to sew, we had to do different things. For the service week, I got to work in the administration building.

BAK:Okay.

OO:So I was one of the watches. I didn't get to work in the galley or the gym, some people got the gym. It was overall, even though at the time while you're going through it's like, wow, this is horrible. What did I get myself into? After the fact it's like, wow, that was a good experience because I learned so many things. We folded, we had to learn how to fold a certain way. I still fold that way. Even my sheets and things like that and making the lines on your bed and making your bed real nice. I think it taught me a lot of good, valuable lessons for life, so I didn't see it as a negative thing.

BAK:Were the physical parts challenging at all?

OO:They were challenging, but like I said, I've lost twenty-eight pounds, so that was excellent.

BAK:Right.

OO:And actually, I have a funny story. I didn't know how to swim when I joined the navy.

BAK:Okay

OO:And so this is funny because they make you do the swim qualifications, and they put me in the remedial section to where somebody teaches you how to swim, and I still didn't learn. And there's an event where you have to jump off the diving board. I can't remember how high it is, but I was so scared.

BAK:Sure.

OO:Because I still wasn't a good swimmer.

BAK:Right.

OO:And the instructor, he pushed me. And because he pushed me, they made me do it again. And I was so scared. It was scary, I'm afraid of heights.

BAK:Oh gosh, so a combination of things.

OO:Yes, yes. So the second time I went, this time, I jumped on my own. I made that first step, but I could feel his fingertips about to push me again. And then in the water, they had the safety guys, I think they were like SEALs [ United States Navy's primary special operations force and a component of the Naval Special Warfare Command] or something, I don't know. But they were in like scuba gear, and they were in there to help us do our swim qualifications. And the guy was like just move your legs, you're swimming. And he helped me, he was underneath, so once I was on the ship, I never did swim quals on the ship because I was not a good swimmer. But people used to make fun of me. He's like, how can you be in the navy, and you don't know how to swim? There are a lot of people who don't know how to swim actually in the navy.

BAK:You're just all optimists that the ship's not going to go down.

OO:I just wear a life jacket or something.

BAK:Right. Wow!

OO:No, but that was funny.

BAK:So that was the hardest. Yeah, hardest thing.

OO:Yeah, that was hard for me. The swimming, yes.

BAK:You said you also learned leadership skills there?

OO:A little bit, yes, yes. Because we had to, when I was in the during service week, I had to be in charge of the quarter deck, and we had to do the logbooks, and we had to be responsible, make sure we got everywhere fifteen minutes early, so we did the learn some leadership and delegating, telling others what to do.

BAK:Right.

OO:Yes, we did learn a little bit of that as well.

BAK:Okay. Anything else about bootcamp you want to talk about?

OO:No.

BAK:Okay. Did they give, give you a dream sheet or is it, or?

OO:They do.

BAK:Okay.

OO:They do.

BAK:Did you know? And how long is bootcamp? Six—

OO:It was nine weeks.

BAK:Nine weeks, okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:So when did you find out what was going to happen next to you?

OO:Well, I went to, it was right after graduation. I went to Seaman ATD School. And in that school, that's when they give us our orders.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And so I got orders to Naval Station Mayport [Jacksonville, Florida].

BAK:Okay.

OO:And my best friend, Sherry, who was in bootcamp with me, she also got Naval Station Mayport. And we were also in Seaman ATD School, so that helped that my first TDE station, I had someone that I knew.

BAK:Right.

OO:Yes.

BAK:And what was your billet?

OO:I was, well, I was un-designated seaman.

BAK:Okay.

OO:So I went, and I got lucky, I didn't go on a ship. I was on shore duty.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, so I worked with supply.

BAK:Okay.

OO:They sent me to supply, and we provided gear and items to the helo [helicopter] squadrons.

BAK:Okay.

OO:There were five helo squadrons there, forty, forty-two, forty-four, forty-six, and forty- eight. And we worked for them. And the supply had two buildings, and then the squadrons were back here.

BAK:That's quartermaster, or is that an army thing?

OO:It was SK, which is—?

BAK:Storekeeper?

OO:Storekeeper.

BAK:Right.

OO:But I was in the aviation side, and so I became an aviation storekeeper.

BAK:Got it, okay.

OO:Yes. And I struck for the rate, which means you request it, you request to strike for that and start studying the books.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And so then you get to take the exam. And because I was an un-designated seaman, I could go to any rate, since I was working in supply and I was learning about the gear for the helo squadrons and all that stuff, I decided to go the AK [aviation storekeeper] route because I was not sure what I wanted to do in the navy at the time, and that's what I did.

BAK:And then when you're saying you're studying, you're studying for that specific job?

OO:Right.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, we studied for that rate, and I made it on the first try.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I think it was a hundred percent though. It was like for me, E-3 to E-4, I'm pretty sure it was a hundred percent, so as long as you put your name, you kind of could make rank.

BAK:Right, so what kind of questions are on this?

OO:About the job.

BAK:About the job, okay.

OO:Yes, about the programs we used. I remember we used to use NALCOMIS, which was a computer system—

BAK:Okay.

OO:—that we used to use to enter the gear and things like that.

BAK:Okay, so it was not like math problems or?

OO:No, not really.

BAK:Okay. You told me how your parents reacted when you joined. What about your friends back in high school, how did they react?

OO:I think they were okay because my one friend was joining the army, and she did go to the army, and they were supportive. They didn't have a problem. I mean, they probably thought it was crazy that I went into the military. They probably didn't think that would be my choice, but they supported me.

BAK:Okay. And when you enlisted, for how long did you enlist for?

OO:Four years.

BAK:Four years, okay. All right, so how long, all right. So you went to AK, is that what you said?

OO:AK, yes.

BAK:AK school.

OO:Aviation storekeeper.

BAK:All right. And how long did you do that was still in Florida?

OO:Wait, I didn't go to the school.

BAK:You didn't go to the school?

OO:No, because I struck for that rate.

BAK:Right.

OO:And so when I took the exam, I became an AK.

BAK:Okay. And you still were in Florida?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay

.

OO:Yes.

BAK:And how long were you there?

OO:I was there for three years.

BAK:Okay. Did you like it? How was Florida?

OO:It was nice. I liked it. I got to go to St. Augustine, and I actually went to Mexico while I was stationed there with my best friend Sherry. We went to Mexico for a trip, Cancun, so it was a good duty. I met a lot of people and became friends with a lot of people. It was a good base, I didn't have a car, I didn't know how to drive. Coming from New York, I didn't know how to drive. But Sherry, she had a truck, so we used to just try to go everywhere together. And I would help her with gas and things like that and help her clean her truck.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:And the other sailors or superiors, how was your relationship with them?

OO:I'm a rule follower.

BAK:Okay. And they like that?

OO:Yes. And I did not have any issues. And you asked me earlier about bootcamp. I think I had a good time because I'm a rule follower, I do not like to break the rules, so when I was, and I didn't get in trouble. No, I didn't get in trouble. I mean, if anything, I was always like let's behave.

BAK:Right, right.

OOAnd later I became a military police or master-at-arms—

BAK:Yeah, so now you have a gun.

OO:That kind of goes hand in hand with that.

BAK:Right.

OO:But actually, while I was in Florida, they have this program called ASF, which is Auxiliary Security Force.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And even though I was in AK, basically they need people in the military police community, so what the bases do is they take people from all the commands, like one to two sailors. They put them in the ASF school, which they teach them military police work. And then those people augment the guys on the gate whenever they need people on watch, checking IDs or patrolling and things like that, so I was put in that program.

BAK:Did you volunteer for it, or did they just?

OO:I don't remember.

BAK:You were voluntold [slang combining volunteer with told, as in being told what to do]?

OO:I think I was voluntold.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I think I was voluntold, so I went to that over the summer of 2001. And I got qualified ASF to stand gate and carry a gun and be at the gate. And at the time we had nine millimeters.

BAK:I guess you had to learn how to shoot those—?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:Marksman, okay.

OO:Yes, we had to go shoot and everything. And we did OC, that was tough. OC spray.

BAK:Oh, is that like going through the tear gas tent?

OO:No, it's the OC spray like the cops spray you if you're doing something that you're not supposed to.

BAK:Oh, like pepper spray.

OO:Pepper spray, yes, yes. Pepper spray.

BAK:They just test that let you know what it felt like.

OO:Huh?

BAK:They just wanted you to know what it felt like?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And everybody in the class has to do it. You can't get out of it. All of us had to get sprayed. And I was the first one and they videoed it and it was bad.

BAK:I'm sorry, I just didn't see that coming. Is it on YouTube? Could I link to your—

OO:No.

BAK:No, okay.

OO:It's not on YouTube. Because it wasn't, it was 2001.

BAK:Okay.

OO:It was VHS [consumer-level analog video recording on tape cassettes], yes. It was not people having phones. It wasn't like that.

BAK:That's probably good.

OO:I think the VHS is somewhere in my house in the attic.

BAK:So they gave it to you?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay, wow!

OO:But that was really tough, the OC. Shooting and the rest of the class was not. But then 9/11 happened, right?

[On the morning of September 11, 2001, nineteen members of the Islamic terrorists group Al-Qaeda hijacked four passenger airplanes. The terrorists took control planes and flew two of the planes into New York City’s Twin Towers and a third plane into the Pentagon. The fourth attack, aimed at Washington, D.C. did not work and the plane crashed in a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. The attacks killed almost 3,000 people, including the nineteen attackers and caused more than $10 billion in damage to infrastructure.]

BAK:And you were in Florida then?

OO:Yes ma'am. I had just gotten the qualification that summer.

BAK:Oh gosh!

OO:Like June, July, because it was a long course, about four to five weeks I would think.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:Maybe less, but I can't recall. Sorry, my memory's not the best.

BAK:It's okay, so when you're just doing that training, you weren't doing your AK training?

OO:Right, I was not.

BAK:Okay. All right, okay. So you do, oh gosh! And then 9/11 happened.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Tell me about that.

OO:Okay, so I was working in the warehouse and the John F. Kennedy battle group was about to leave the next day. And we were doing the face kits for the helicopters. And I remember I was working, and it was like a warehouse, and it had the gate, you know those gates, the fence. It had the fence, but it was covered. And then our offices were on this side. And I remember working on the face kits, because it was like the battle group is leaving tomorrow, we got to get these out. Because, they got the order to us late, so I'm trying to get those done. And somebody from the offices comes out and they're like, AK3 come inside.

They were watching the news and I was like, no, I have to get this work done, so I refused to go inside. And then they asked me again to come inside. They were like, it's serious. You need to stop working. You have to come inside. And I was like, they're leaving tomorrow, and I have to be done by four o'clock. And so I think somebody pulled me. I think one of my coworkers finally pulled me, because I was working by myself at the time. I don't know where my E-5 was, I don't recall. Maybe he was already inside watching the news. And so then we go inside, and we see the buildings. And I'm from New York, so that was really hard.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:And my dad, he worked, like I said, he worked for Citibank. He worked in that big building in Queens. And it's a tall building. It's like the only tall building at the edge of Queens.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And he could see what happened.

BAK:Oh gosh!

OO:Because it was glass, their building was all glass.

BAK:All right.

OO:And we watched that, and it was just in disbelief. Like I thought it was a movie, I thought it was fake you know. And because I had just done the ASF program, they told me to go home and go to sleep because I was going to be working the night shift for ASF. And I couldn't sleep because I couldn't get ahold of my parents.

BAK:Right.

OO:Yeah, because everybody was calling New York, so all the lines were busy. I couldn't get ahold of my parents, and I was crying. And I didn't know where my brother was or my dad. My mom, she didn't really cry. And she was crying once I finally got ahold of them.

BAK:Oh, God!

OO:So I didn't sleep. And then I had to report to the security building and get armed up. And we were seventeen days straight without a day off.

BAK:Did the JFK [battle group], did they go?

OO:I mean, I think they left that day.

BAK:Okay.

OO:They ended up leaving early.

BAK:And you had all the masks. All the masks were ready?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, yes. They ended up leaving. I'm pretty sure they ended up leaving that day.

BAK:Gosh.

OO:Instead of going the next day, because I think they went to New York to help.

BAK:Right.

OO:They didn't go on the battle group that they were going, they didn't. We were activated, we could not leave the base. The people that were working with the military police, they had to hot rack. Have you ever heard of that term?

BAK:I have, and I can't remember what it means.

OO:Yes, so basically the person that works the day shift goes to work, and the person that works night shift has to sleep in that bed that the day shift person slept on.

BAK:Right, yes.

OO:And so that's what we had to do because nobody could leave the base. I remember people—In the beginning, they locked the base down so nobody could come in or go out.

BAK:Right.

OO:But then once we were allowing people in, only essential personnel could come in.

BAK:Civilian personnel, was that?

OO:No, only military.

BAK:Only military.

OO:Only essential like required to be there to work. I remember they would bring us stuff like cookies and water and just try to make us feel better because our shifts were like fifteen hours.

BAK:God!

OO:Which we'd never had to work like that before.

BAK:Is it just because they wanted to double up?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:Security?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, because we didn't know if somebody was going to attack us. And I actually volunteered to go to New York and help, but they wouldn't let me. They said no, because you're from there, so they sent some other people. I was kind of upset that they didn't let me go, but maybe it was for the best, so we did that. And after that, life really changed for us in the military, because from then on, there are different levels for security and for our procedures at the gate and on the base. And there's Normal, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, and I don't think we've ever gone back to normal since then. Yeah, it's either we stay in Bravo, but after that is when I decided to cross right to master-at-arms working in the rate working as master-at-arms for 9/11. I decided to cross rate to master-at-arms.

BAK:Because—Like what was your reason?

OO:Well, when I was a kid, one of the things I wanted to be was a cop. Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I think I found more passion in doing that than being an AK. It was a lot of computer work, and it was fine. But being active, being on the gate, having my weapon, I just felt like I was doing something more to protect our country.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:And I decided to cross rate. And so from Florida, I went to Master-at-Arms School.

BAK:Okay. Now, how many women compared to, I mean, what was the percentage of women to men in that?

OO:There were probably three of us females in like a thirty-person class. Yes.

BAK:Did you get any pushback for wanting that specific job?

OO:No.

BAK:No, okay.

OO:No, I did not.

BAK:You felt respected?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay. All right. Wow! All right. And I'm sorry, where was this school?

OO:It's Lackland Air Force Base in Texas.

BAK:Lackland in Texas, okay.

OO:I went there for two months, a little over two months.

BAK:Okay. And you learned, I guess, different firearm, different like self-defense, or what kind of stuff did you learn?

OO:Yes ma'am, so we had to do the self-defense, like tactical movements, like to defend ourselves, we had to do weapons, we had to clearing rooms.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:Entering rooms and clearing rooms. We had to learn a little bit about the military working dog. We learned a little bit about that. Even though not everybody works with military working dogs, but they still teach us the basics. We learned about handcuffing techniques.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:It was extensive, yes. And we did OC [oleoresin capsicum] as well, they sprayed me again.

BAK:Were you like yeah, whatever?

OO:I lost my paper. I couldn't find my paper. If you have your paper, your certificate, then you're good. But I didn't have my certificate, so they had to spray me again.

BAK:Ouch. Ouch. This job—is it just, but I realize I've never thought this one through. Is it just you're policing other navy personnel? Or is this also for outside, other people, civilians, intruders, just anyone?

OO:No, it's mainly just military personnel. We are on the base, we do gate watches, we do patrolling in the vehicles, but we mainly only have jurisdiction over military personnel.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Now, when we were overseas in Italy, we had a joint jurisdiction in some areas.

BAK:Got it.

OO:And in Italy, we used to patrol the whole base, the civilian side, because naval support activity La Maddalena was so small.

BAK:Got it. Yeah, I've never heard that one.

OO:It only had a few buildings. It was small. You couldn't even park on the base because it was very small. It was just like the administrative building where the CO [commanding officer] is. We had a little place to eat. There was actually a theater there also. And then the Seabees [United States Naval Construction Battalions, better known as the Navy Seabees] had a building as well.

BAK:Okay. And where in Italy is that? I don't—

OO:It's a small island off [of] Sardinia.

BAK:Okay. And that's on the—?

OO:It's at the end of the boot.

BAK:End of the boot?

OO:Yes. It's like at the tip of the boot. Sardinia kind of looks like a little ball that the boot is kicking.

BAK:Oh, that's the one. Okay, that makes sense why the navy would be there.

OO:Sardinia is a big island, and then La Maddalena is a tiny island. And we were also in

Palau, which was another island. We had to take the ferry and we had to patrol that as well.

BAK:That's interesting. Is that still open?

OO:No, ma'am it's no longer open. I think it closed in 2007.

BAK:Okay. Is there any other, do you know navy or other military presence in Italy?

OO:There was a ship there. We had a ship. The [USS] Emory S. Land was there, yes.

BAK:Okay. I just realized I've never, I mean, I certainly know tons of military in Germany and yeah, I didn't know Italy. Okay.

OO:We had navy in Naples as well.

BAK:Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. All right, so we're still then, are you happy you made that cross? What do you call it? Cross—

OO:Cross-rate [change jobs].

BAK:Cross-rate.

OO:I cross-rated

.

BAK:Did you like that job?

OO:I did.

BAK:Okay. And you said it was how long of a training?

OO:I went to boot, not bootcamp. I went to MA [Master-at-Arms] School January through, wait, did I start in January? I probably, you know what, I think I started October until January.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:October of, what year are we now, 2000?

OO:October of 2001. I'll have to confirm the dates and send you the actual dates because it'll be in my record. And then I graduated in January, and then I took some leave, and then I reported to La Maddalena, Italy on Valentine's Day.

BAK:Okay. And how did you get that job? I mean, did you ask for it or?

OO:I did not. Honestly, I did not. I just felt so lucky.

BAK:Yeah, seriously.

OO:Because I do not remember asking for Italy. I just knew they were going to send me to a ship because my first duty station was shore duty, so while I was in MA school, they gave us our assignments and they gave me Italy.

BAK:Wow!

OO:I know, I was so lucky. And it was basically shore duty.

BAK:Okay, so you took a ship over to Italy. What'd you do on the—?

OO:We flew.

BAK:Oh, you flew?

OO:Yes, we flew because I took leave. I went home to New York after my school, and then from New York we got to fly up there. I did a pack out and everything and shipped all my things over there.

BAK:Okay. And how long were you in Italy?

OO:I was there for two years.

BAK:Nice.

OO:I was there from 2002 to 2004.

BAK:And you said it was a pretty small installation?

OO:It was very small base. And the barracks were outside in the city because like I said, that base was so small, it was in a building for us to have barracks.

BAK:Wow!

OO:Yes.

BAK:Did anyone speak English out there or?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:They did?

OO:Yes. And because I knew Spanish, it's a little bit similar to Italian.

BAK:Right, yes.

OO:And I took Italian while I was there, but I don't remember much of it now because you have to practice it.

BAK:Right.

OO:But it was an interesting experience.

BAK:You were doing security-ish stuff there?

OO:Yes, I was doing security, and we did patrols on the whole island, which I think took us less than thirty minutes to drive around the whole island, it was so small.

BAK:Wow!

OO:But we got to patrol, there we were able to work off base, for example, if there were any sailors at the bars and things like that, we were able to do that.

BAK:That's probably a good place to.

OO:And monitor them and make sure that they weren't getting in trouble and things like that when we were working.

BAK:Did you have sailors that gave you a hard time?

OO:Not really. And I used to always have a partner. You always have a partner with you, so there's always two people, so not really, we didn't have a lot of people. And I'm friendly, so I try to get along with everybody and just have good camaraderie, so no, I don't recall us having any.

BAK:And how did you get along with the Italian civilians?

OO:They used to upset me at first because they would stare at us weirdly, I didn't like it. So at first it took some adjustment, and I think it's because we're American and we act different, we dress different. It took me some adjustment at first it was, what is that? Not culture shock, maybe? Culture shock.

BAK:Culture shock, yeah.

OO:But as I got to learn more about them and their culture and how they speak and how they act and behave, I started to embrace that a little bit more.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I became friends with them.

BAK:Oh, wow!

OO:One of the guys, he was our landlord, Italian. He was super, nicest guy ever. I still have him on my Facebook. And the lady that worked at the restaurant on the base, she was so sweet. I—Ursula, I still remember her name. She was so sweet. And one of my coworkers, navy, his wife is Italian, and he'd been there for a while, and they invited us over for dinner one time. And so I got to learn more about the culture and accept the culture more. And I got to understand they're staring because they just haven't seen an American like you. But at first it was a little bit of a struggle, but I loved, that was my favorite duty station.

BAK:Like you said.

OO:Yes. The water was so pretty and blue.

BAK:Wow!

OO:You could see through it.

BAK:Wow!

OO:Not like the beach in New York.

BAK:No, no. I know my Jersey shore beaches and you cannot see the bottom.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Wow! Okay, so that must have been hard to leave.

OO:It was.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:And then that's where I met my husband.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Tell me about him and how you all met?

OO:Well, he was going through BUD/S to become a SEAL, and he didn't make it, so they sent him, his rate was hull technician, and they sent him to Italy because he didn't finish the SEAL program.

[Basic Underwater Demolition/Seal (BUD/S) is a twenty-four-week training course that develops the SEAL candidates' mental and physical stamina and leadership skills. Each BUD/S phase includes timed physical condition tests, with the time requirements becoming more demanding each week. BUD/S consists of a three-week orientation followed by three phases, covering physical conditioning (seven weeks), combat diving (seven weeks), and land warfare (seven weeks) respectively. Officer and enlisted personnel go through the same training program. It is designed to develop and test their stamina, leadership, and ability to work as a team. BUD/S has been controversial due to candidates' use of performance-enhancing drugs and a number of candidate deaths.]

BAK:And what is CO?

OO:SEAL, like the—

BAK:Oh, SEAL, SEAL.

OO:The BUD/S—

BAK:Oh, sorry. SEAL.

OO:SEAL, yes.

BAK:Yeah. Wow—He's trying—Okay, that's hard.

OO:All right. But they sent him to Italy, and I was like, well, Italy is a beautiful place.

BAK:Right.

OO:We got to Italy.

BAK:And did you already know him before?

OO:No, no.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:No, I didn't know him. Actually, he came in March. I got there in February, and he got there in March. And I remember meeting him, and I thought he was someone else's boyfriend that was there, so I didn't pay much attention to him. But he liked me and pursued me. He says I pursued him, and I say he pursued me.

BAK:Wow, so you need a tie breaker.

OO:We disagree.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:It's funny, but we started riding bikes together and things like that, like became friends first.

BAK:Sure.

OO:And then eventually we started dating. And what happened is he had to leave early, and we decided to get married because if he left early, and we wouldn't know where I would get stationed, so we would be apart.

BAK:Right.

OO:Hey, you know what's crazy? We had to do a [Special] Request Chit [form] to get married. I don't know why. I don't know if they make everyone do that, but we both worked in the security department, so we had to put in a Request Chit and route it up the chain of command in order to get married. Yeah, I don't know if that's a normal thing or if it's because we were both in the same security unit. Although when we started dating, we did let our supervisors know and they put us in different squads so that we wouldn't work together.

BAK:And he wasn't an officer, right?

OO:No, no, no. He was enlisted like I was.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Wow! And how long had you been together when you got married?

OO:We'd been together about a year and three months when we got married.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes ma'am. And so we got married in New York. His family came to New York, and my parents were there. We got married there.

BAK:The in-laws met each other on your wedding day, right?

OO:Yes, yes.

BAK:Yeah, okay.

OO:Yes. I think they had traveled up there before. I'm not sure.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I can't remember, but yes, yes, so that was nice. And then because we got married early, normally I always thought I would be with someone five years before I marry them. But we did it so we could get stationed together.

BAK:And when was that?

OO:That was 2004.

BAK:Okay.

OO:So in 2004? No, he left in 2003. He left in 2003 because like I said, he had to leave early.

BAK:So you got married in 2003?

OO:We got married in 2003, sorry.

BAK:That's okay.

OO:But I left there in 2004.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And he left in 2003, so he got stationed in San Diego.

BAK:So you were assigned there too?

OO:Yes. He was at naval station at 32nd Street, and I was at Naval Medical Center, San

Diego. And I worked military master-at-arms there.

BAK:And you wanted to stay with master-at-arms?

OO:I did. I stayed with it. I'm still a master-at-arms.

BAK: Okay, so you do like it.

OO:Yes.

BAK:But San Diego's not too shabby either.

OO:No. And short duty, again, Beth Ann I was so lucky when I was on active duty. Yes, so I was at Balboa Hospital, so 2004 until 2005.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Because I got out in 2005 and went reserves.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:And then that's when you were, okay. Why did you choose to not re-up, and chose to go reserves because you had kids?

OO:No, at the time, not yet. I wanted to go to school. I wanted to finish school, and I probably should have just gone to school while in the military and used the TA. But I wanted to focus on something different, and I decided to get out. I was on the ship as well, this being in Naval Medical Center, San Diego, that's when I went on the ship, the USNS Mercy.

BAK:For five months to help the people in—?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:In Banda Aceh [Indonesia]?

OO:Banda Aceh.

BAK:Aceh. Okay, I'll have to look that up. Okay, wow! All right, so you became watch commander, so let's go back to that. What is watch commander?

OO:In the master-at-arms community, once you become a watch commander, you're in charge of the group.

BAK:So you're the captain.

OO:So we have twelve-hour shifts, so each shift has a watch commander. And so that's the person that assigns people to the watch, to patrol. And any incidents that happened, you're pretty much the person in charge that makes a decision as to what to do for that period.

BAK:And what was the naval medical center like? I mean, was that a challenging place, or not so much?

OO:It was a bit challenging. And it was different because in Italy it was just people, sailors and things like that. And going outside of the base. But at the hospital we had to, we had sometimes crazy patients and different things like that. The majority of the things is like traffic tickets, accidents, fender benders between other people driving on base, things like that. We had incidents with sailors like getting things stolen from work, so it, it was a different than Italy, and it was challenging in a different way, but also it was a good experience for me to learn. And I also got to go on my first ship since all I have was shore duty. I got to go on my first ship. Although the Mercy is a hospital ship, it's not a gray hull, so it was run by civilians.

BAK:Oh, I didn't know that.

OO:It was really different, I'm sure, than what I would've experienced if I'd gone on a navy ship, ran by navy.

BAK:Right.

OO:Yes, but it was still a good experience.

BAK:Now, did you cross a—?

OO:Yes.

BAK:You didn't cross the equator, but you crossed something?

OO:We did.

BAK:You crossed the equator?

OO:We did, because I got my, what is it called? Oh my goodness.

BAK:Something Neptune? No, the—

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Turtle, Tortoise. Tortoise shell, Turtles—

OO:Shellback I got my Shellback on that deployment, so we did, we did cross.

[A Shellback is the recipient of a line-crossing ceremony. Popular in the American, British, Dutch, Australian, and Russian Navies, it marks the moment when a sailor crosses the equator.]

BAK:What was it like to get Shellback on a civilian ship?

OO:I don't think it was as bad as it would've been on a navy ship.

BAK:Right.

OO:But they did make us eat the weird food, the green stuff. Yeah.

BAK:The green stuff?

OO:Yeah. I guess they put food coloring in everything.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:Yes, yes. It looked green, and like porridge and different things like that. And they made us crawl through the ship. They did a lot of things, but I don't think it was as bad as it would've been.

BAK:No.

OO:Yeah. Like I've heard other stories from people. I'm like, oh, okay. I didn't do that. I had to wear a funny shirt. Somebody drew on my shirt, and I had to wear it inside out. I had to wear my pants like backwards. It was silly stuff.

BAK:All right.

OO:Yes.

BAK:And how long does that last?

OO:It lasted—I feel like it lasted for twenty-four hours.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah, it was like a twenty-four-hour thing when we crossed the equator.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I got my Shellback.

BAK:All right. Got to make sure you got your Shellback. Okay.

OO:Thank you. I kind of forgot about that.

BAK:Okay, so gosh, this is very different. How long did it take you to get from San Diego to Banda Aceh?

OO:Aceh?

BAK:Aceh, Aceh.

OO:Yes, so it took us a month to get there. We left January 5th, and it took us a month. We stopped once in Hawaii and—

BAK:Did you get off the ship in Hawaii?

OO:I did, all I got to do was buy uniform items and get McDonald's [fast food] and I had to get back because I had duty.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:I didn't get to see anything. And we didn't stay.

BAK:Right.

OO:It was kind of a stop for fuel and gear and things like that, and then we left. Yes. So it took us a month to get to Banda Aceh. By the time we got there, the Australians were there already. And so they had helped a lot. But the way we helped is because it was a hospital ship and there were a lot of people that were sick on land, so we brought them to the ship because we had beds, we had all the corpsmen.

BAK:Right.

OO:Because I worked at Naval Medical Center, San Diego, so all the corpsmen from the hospital, well, not all of them, right. But several of them plus us, the master-at-arms, we got deployed.

BAK:Right, okay.

OO:We were attached to the ship, and we got deployed. We also stopped, I can't, we stopped somewhere else, I feel like, and we picked up more sailors because I remember on my route there, it was kind of empty, the berthing [sleeping area].

BAK:Right.

OO:And then we stopped, and we picked up more corpsmen. I can't remember where we stopped. And that's when I became friends with a few corpsmen.

BAK:Guam?

OO:No, I don't think it was Guam, maybe it was Singapore. It was Singapore we stopped, but we picked up a few more people. I think they flew them there.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:Yes. They flew them there. It wasn't that they were stationed there. They flew them there and we picked them up.

BAK:What was it like being on a ship? That was the first time, right?

OO:It was my first. Oh, the movement. Oh, that took some getting used to.

BAK:Were you seasick?

OO:Yes, yes. And I took Dramamine and things like that. Was it Dramamine?

BAK:Dramamine?

OO:But it didn't help. I mean, it was something you just had to get used to, just let your body adjust, so that was different. And then the sleeping quarters, so we had three beds stacked and not very much room. I remember one of my friends, the people that we picked up, the corpsman we picked up, she slept on the other side of me, and she said that I was always kicking her. She used to complain, she's like, stop, you move too much. And like, I can't help it. It's so small. It's probably this big [measuring with her hands]. Yeah, it's very small, so it was interesting. But we had good food because the civilians ran the ship. We had good food.

BAK:Better than navy food?

OO:Yes ma'am. I feel like we had air force food. And also because it was a hospital, so

BAK:Sorry I just love that the air force was always considered the Ivy League. Oh, they get everything.

OO:Yes, yes.

BAK:They're the rich kids of the military.

OO:I remember we had steak and shrimp one time too. And we had a lot of recreational things, we had Zumba on the ship like once a week. I think they did that for morale.

[Zumba is an aerobic fitness program featuring movements inspired by various styles of Latin American dance and performed primarily to Latin American dance music.]

BAK:Yeah.

OO:We had one night they did salsa dancing. And I remember one night the captain in the mess deck, we had, I think it was a Friday night or something, we had a karaoke night, and he sang "Sweet Caroline." And I just thought that was crazy because you never think you would see your CO [commanding officer] singing karaoke.

BAK:Kissing up.

OO:It was actually kind of a fun tour; I'm not going to lie. Yes. And I made friends. I became friends with these four corpsmen on the ship, and I'm still friends with them, yes.

BAK:Now, were you having to do rounds?

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:Security rounds as you're nauseous?

OO:Yes. Yes. And with our weapons and everything, yes. We had to do rounds on the whole ship and check all the rooms. Also, there were a lot of beds and a lot of gurneys and things for sick people, so we had to make sure we inspect everything. And that people weren't doing things that they weren't supposed to.

BAK:Yes, I would imagine somebody was doing something they weren't supposed to.

OO:Yes, yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I got to go on land as well. When we got to go on land, I got to work with some of the Australian, I got to take a helicopter from the ship to Banda Aceh.

BAK:Nice.

OO:And by the time we got there, because it took us a month, the water had receded, but you could see the water line on the walls.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I remember seeing moms with their babies and just in poor conditions from the tsunami hitting. And they needed medical care.

BAK:A lot of disease, I would guess.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Like dysentery kind of stuff. Oh, gosh!

OO:Well, I think by the time we got there it was better. But they did make us, once we came back, they made us take a whole bunch of shots.

BAK:Right.

OO:I don't know why didn't make us take it before. But yes, we had to take a lot of shots when we got back.

BAK:And anything else you remember about that?

OO:I remember one of the Australians that I worked with, he gave me a Bible and I still have it. And it's become my son's Bible. Yes, I still have that. We got to go to Singapore, and that was our liberty. And because unfortunately, because we only had two female master-at-arms, one always had to stay on the ship, so I never got to go on liberty with her, so I had to go with all the guys. And that was not cool.

BAK:Tell me about it.

OO:That was not cool. That was uncomfortable with them because they just wanted to do guy things, I guess. But it was interesting. It was interesting seeing the culture, and the way they dress, and the way they behave, and the food. It was very interesting. But I only got to go out once, and since I didn't have, at the time, I didn't have other females. This was, I think before I met the corpsman female friends. It was kind of hard for me being the only female and going out with the guys, that was—

BAK:Were they giving you a hard time or just what they were doing?

OO:It's what they were doing. Yeah.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Were you treated as one of the guys? Or they ignored you a little bit or?

OO:They actually protected me.

BAK:Okay.

OO:They did, even on the ship, they did try to always protect me, like their little sister. Yeah.

BAK:Okay.

OO:But I didn't feel mistreated by them. Yeah.

BAK:Okay. But your friends all were other females pretty much.

OO:Afterwards, yes.

BAK:Yeah.

OO:Thankfully yeah, because I needed that. I needed that. Yeah.

BAK:Okay. All right, so you were there five months and then it took you five months to get back. And then you decided that you wanted to go to college, so you didn't re-up, you went reserve.

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:And you were married?

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay, so you went reserve in 2005.

OO:2005.

BAK:In October, right?

OO:Yes.

BAK:I see that right in front of me. Tell me, what were they encouraging you to re-sign or re-enlist?

OO:Well, it was, a lot of my friends tried to get me to stay active, but I was over it by that point. I was like, no, I'm done. I'm ready. I want to have another life.

BAK:Okay.

OO:But I was still able to stay in the reserve, so it was just a switch really.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And I got to get out.

BAK:And you lived in San Diego?

OO:Yes. We got to stay San Diego because he was still active duty.

BAK:And where'd you go UC [University of California at] San Diego, or?

OO:I went to San Diego City College at first.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I was going there for, and I started working at Ross Dress For Less. And I started going to school for nursing.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I was doing the pre-reqs for nursing.

BAK:And then why nursing? Where'd that come from?

OO:Where did that come from? I think maybe my corpsman friends, maybe being around them so much. And I wanted to do that. And yeah, I think it was their influence.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes. But then anatomy and physiology, I did it. I think I got a C or something in that class. And you needed a B, so it wasn't enough for the prerequisites to go into the nursing program, so I decided to switch.

BAK:Right.

OO:And I started going to University of Phoenix for a degree in business administration.

BAK:Okay.

OO:So I started doing that, and also was working and going to school. And then my ex-husband, he decided to do the blue to green program. So he went from the navy to the army. The navy didn't want to let him do all the special things he wanted.

BAK:Oh, okay.

OO:So he decided to join the army, so he went to the army in 2007. We moved from San Diego to Florida where he was going to school—

BAK:Okay.

OO:—for Green Beret [United States Army Special Forces] and then he did well on that, but then he just said something he shouldn't have, and so they kicked him out. And so then he went to EOD School in the army, which is Explosive Ordnance Disposal.

BAK:I was wondering, geez, he likes—

OO:He likes the dangerous stuff.

BAK:Yes.

OO:Yes ma'am, he does.

BAK:EOD.

OO:The SEALs, the Green Berets. And then he went here.

BAK:Did he talk to you about that? Because I'd be pretty—

OO:No, and it was kind of upsetting because I didn't know he did the blue to green program, and he took me out to dinner. He had already signed up and he took me out to dinner, and he was like, I joined the army. And I was like, what this is something we should have.

BAK:But you're in the navy.

OO:We should have talked about, right.

BAK:Right.

OO:Anyways, but because I was in the reserves, I was able to move with him to wherever duty station he went, so in a way, it kind of worked out that I went reserves, because if I had stayed active, it would've been hard for us to get stationed together.

BAK:Right.

OO:We went to Florida, and he went to school for EOD? No, was that ranger school, I can't remember. But anyways, he went to the army. And then after Florida, we went to Tennessee. And that's where we had our children, our twins.

BAK:What are their names?

OO:Adan and Victoria.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And they were IVF [in vitro fertilization] actually, so we always knew that we were going to have twins because they put two—

BAK:Okay.

OO:And we were blessed because sometimes the IVF doesn't work, so we were blessed that it worked on the first try.

BAK:The first try, good.

OO:Yes. And I was sixteen weeks pregnant when he went on his first deployment with the army, so he did not see my whole pregnancy. And I had to do a Red Cross message for him to come back because apparently, I was having contractions and I didn't know I was having contractions, so I had to do a Red Cross message, so that was his first deployment. And it was tough, the pregnancy, and having twins and all that.

BAK:Yeah, and you were in Tennessee, you didn't know anyone.

OO:And I didn't have family. I mean, my neighbors were good to me though. I had good neighbors because I used to have to mow and stuff like that, so one day with my neighbor, he was like, let me mow for you. And I was like, thank you. Because the big belly was hard.

BAK:Yeah. Now were you living on base or off base?

OO:No, ma'am. Off base.

BAK:Off base, okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay. Wow! So that's a lot.

OO:It was.

BAK:So he came in, they flew him back.

OO:They flew him back, and the babies were born about a week after he came back because they had to do an emergency C-section. I think one of them, the umbilical cord. And then my blood pressure kept going down. They also had me on medication because to help their lungs grow faster, they had me on medication because they knew I might be an early—

BAK:Right.

OO:Early—

BAK:Birth?

OO:Early birth. Thank you.

BAK:Right.

OO:And so they said we have to do an emergency. And he had wrote his, because we lived in Clarksville, Tennessee, and I was in Nashville, Tennessee. I was at the women's hospital, and he had just rode his motorcycle there. And they told him that they were going to do an emergency C-section that afternoon. And he had to ride back and get my mom and my grandma. And it was about an hour. And it was raining. It started raining. He didn't know, he didn't know it was going to rain, but it was kind of bad. But anyways, he went and got my mom because my mom and grandma came from New York to be there for me.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And so he got back and then they were born, and they were in the NICU [neonatal intensive care unit] for two weeks.

BAK:Okay.

OO:In the incubator, so we had to drive every day to visit them. Yes. But they're almost taller than me now.

BAK:Wow!

OO:Yes, so they're healthy.

BAK:Wow! And what year were they born?

OO:They were born in 2009.

BAK:2009.

OO:And that was when he went on his first deployment?

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:All right, so you reserve, you have to go, was it training once a month?

OO:Yes, ma'am. Once a month. We do one drill weekend a month, and then two weeks out of the year.

BAK:Right, so what did you do? I guess when you're pregnant, you don't have to, or did you have to go do this while you were pregnant?

OO:I still did my drill weekend, yes. Up until I could, but I didn't do the two weeks AT [annual training], because I was a high-risk pregnancy for being IVF and for being multiple birth, twin birth so I didn't have to go. But at the time, I didn't realize that I had to put in a request, so I didn't put in a request, so I actually have a bad year in the navy in the reserves. And it's like I didn't do a full year for that period, so even though I've been in the navy twenty-four years on paper, the navy says I've been in twenty-three years.

BAK:Oh, that's frustrating. Okay.

OO:It is frustrating. And I didn't know about that at the time. I found out later, I was like, oh, wow! That I was supposed to put a request not to go on those two weeks.

BAK:Right, wow!

OO:Yes, yes.

BAK:When you went back, so when did you start doing reserve duty again? And was your husband back or your mom?

OO:Oh, my mom and grandma stayed.

BAK:They stayed?

OO:For five months to help with the twins because it was two, and he was still working active in the army, so he had to go to work every day. And I think I went back two to three months after giving birth. I didn't take a lot of time off because it's only the one weekend a month.

BAK:Right, but still probably the first time or so it was hard, I would imagine.

OO:Right.

BAK:Wow!

OO:Right. And also, you can't, in the reserves, you can take AAs, which is authorized absence, but you can only do a certain amount. You can't do too many, so I didn't want to have a bad year. And I'm pretty sure I went back pretty fast, yeah.

BAK:And what do you do during the weekends, like drills and things?

OO:During the weekend drills, we do a lot of administrative stuff.

BAK:Okay.

OO:We have to do GMTs, which is General Military Training, we have to do that. We also have to do medical, take care of all our medical things we have to do. We can exercise, do our PT [physical training].

BAK:Right.

OO:But it changes as you go up in rank, so now it's much more different than it was back then for me. But in 2005, no, 2009 was when I had them, so I think in 2010 I became LPO [lead petty officer] of the unit there, the reserve unit, so I was in charge of over thirty people. And we have to do evaluations and things like that, so there's always something mostly administrative. Until you get to go to your unit for your two weeks, that's when you actually get to do your work. Depending on the rate, like for corpsmen they would go to a hospital. But for me, I go to a Navy Security Force unit active, and I work with them, and we have to do our gun qualifications and we have to stay in gate. That's when we get to stand more gate and be armed up. But at the reserve center, we don't get a weapon, we don't get armed up.

BAK:Okay. And what was your, is it rank in the navy?

OO:My rank in the time was E-1, E-6.

BAK:E-6, okay.

OO:Yes. First class petty officer.

BAK:Do you like being in the reserves?

OO:I do like being in the reserves. I do, because it gives me that ability to have the civilian side and also the reserve side.

BAK:Now, were you ever called up to active duty?

OO:Okay. Yes. So in 2015, there was a shooting in Chattanooga at the reserve center.

BAK:Oh, I missed that.

OO:Yeah. 2015, they killed five people. The guy, there was a fence and he drove through the fence, and he came inside, and he started shooting people, it was in 2015.

BAK:On base in—

OO:In Chattanooga.

BAK:Chattanooga, right.

OO:Chattanooga, Tennessee at the reserve center at the navy reserve center. The name recently changed. It used to be NOSC [navy operations support center], but now it's NRC, which is Navy Reserve Center.

BAK:Were you there when they did that?

OO:I was not in Chattanooga. At this point, we have moved to North Carolina. From Tennessee we moved to North Carolina.

BAK:So he got—

OO:Yeah, he [got] Fort Bragg.

BAK:Got it, okay.

OO:From Tennessee, we moved here, and I was at NRC Greensboro when that happened.

BAK:Right.

OO:And actually I was in New York visiting my family when I did a call from one of the guys that works at the reserve center in Greensboro. And he said, "Hey, we're activating MAs across the whole United States for orders to the reserve center." And I was like, "What?" And he said, "We want you to apply." And I was like, "Okay." But I didn't think I would get selected because several people applied. So my coworker told me about that. And so you had to fill out a bunch of paperwork and tell them about your schooling that you went to the master-at-arms school that I went to? What year? All my qualifications, so I had to do that application. And at the time, oh, I was going through my divorce, that's why he called me. I was going through the separation. And so I was not working full time, actually, I was working two jobs. I was working two jobs, so he knew that separation and working two jobs.

I was working at a golf course and working as security for a gated community, so I was working those two jobs and trying to be a single parent. Anyways, so this opportunity came up and there were three of us that applied, and they selected me to go on active duty, so what the navy did is, because this shooting happened at the reserve center. Reserve centers before this were not armed up, so it wasn't like a base where you always have the master-at-arms in the front of the base. From this incident, they armed up all the navy reserve centers across the United States, so now there is a billet sort of, so that what they do is they take a sailor that's in the reserves and they put them on active duty orders for a year or two years, and they work on base, armed up, protecting the base because of the incident that happened, so I was lucky that I got those orders, so I was there from 2015 to 2017. I actually ended up moving here because I lived in Cameron. I lived close to Fort Bragg—

BAK:Right.

OO:—where he was. And so I moved, they gave me orders and they paid for my move to move here to Greensboro. And that's how I've stayed in Greensboro actually because of these orders, so I worked for two years there as the armed watch standard. And I remember before taking the orders, the commanding officer, he sat me down and because they have to interview and make sure that you want to do the job and that you will do the job.

BAK:Right.

OO:And I remember him asking me, and nobody had ever asked me that before. He sat me down. He said, are you willing to take a shot for us for the staff? And I was like, yes, I am willing to protect you guys and stand in front of an armed terrorist in order to protect the people at my NOSC, so that was a hard question to have to answer, but I was ready.

BAK:I guess you have to make, like write down what if that happens, what happens to your kids, right?

OO:Right, yes. We have a family care plan, so that that's already in place, the military does that.

BAK:Right. Well, that must have been quite a question to answer.

OO:It was, it was. I remember getting choked up answering it, but I was like, yes, I'm willing to protect you guys because that is my job as a master-at-arms.

BAK:Right. And did you have any memorable moments in that?

OO:Ooh, that's when I made chief.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I made chief on that tour. It was in 2016, I made chief and, in the navy, unlike any of the other branches in the military, in the navy, going from E-6 to E-7 is a big deal. And we do the initiation and all that process, so I got to do that while I was on those active-duty orders. And it was amazing. And now I made senior chief last year, so that is also amazing. But that shift from E-6 to E-7 is a big deal, and they pin your anchors. And my kids and my parents came, oh, and my kids and my parents pinned my anchors for the ceremony, and you know, go to the khaki uniform, so it was really special. It was a good experience to have.

BAK:Is E-8 the highest enlisted rank?

OO:E-9 is.

BAK:E-9, okay. And what is that called?

OO:Master chief.

BAK:Master chief. Okay. Do you know Robin Hamilton?

OO:Yes. Yes.

BAK:Okay, so I went to her retirement.

OO:I was there.

BAK:You were there.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah, I read the watch for her.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Yeah, yeah. That was very moving.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay.

OO:She's my good friend.

BAK:Yeah. Okay. And she was E-7 or E-8?

OO:She was E-7.

BAK:E-7, okay, so you guys are the same. All right. And how long do you think you might stay in the reserve?

OO:Right now I'm enlisted until 2024. And that'll put me at twenty-six years, so I think I'm going to just stay and do thirty, because I mean that's four more years to thirty, so why not do thirty?

BAK:What do you get at thirty that you don't get at twenty-six?

OO:Well, it's more a retirement at the end. More retirement pay if you stay longer. And Robin is actually the one, after I got off these orders, I tried to go to school again, but it didn't work out, so she encouraged me to do funerals, military funerals, so that's what I do now. Ever since I got out of the orders in 2017, I started doing funerals and I used to do them with her and other people. And so if I stay longer, I can continue to do funerals and get the extra pay, get the extra points. Because in the reserves it's based on points, so every time you drill, the more points you get, the more retirement amount you get at the end.

BAK:Oh, I didn't know that.

OO:As of now, it says 2024 on my ID. And who knows, maybe I'll change my mind and I'll get out in 2024.

BAK:Okay.

OO:But I think I'm inclined to re-enlist and do thirty [years].

BAK:Okay. And where do your kids live while you're doing your reserve?

OO:Their dad takes them.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah, their dad takes them because he's not too far.

BAK:I just didn't know what you guys relationship was.

OO:Yeah.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yeah, we have an excellent relationship, thankfully.

BAK:Okay. Well, that works out.

OO:Yes.

BAK:Okay. Let me just make sure I've, okay, I didn't leave any questions I wanted to ask.

OO:No problem.

.

BAK:Okay, so when you—Did you communicate with your folks and brother a lot while you're were active duty?

OO:Yes, yes.

BAK:And how was that—like phone or email?

OO:Phone and letters. I actually just found the letter that my mom had written to me back then, when I was in Florida. But they used to send me packages all the time, even though I was in Florida, I wasn't too far. Phone and letters and packages, that's how we stayed in touch. And I would come home for Christmas and things like that.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I would take leave and go home. I always wanted to be with them on my leave.

BAK:Did you get to do it every Christmas or?

OO:I went pretty much every Christmas, yes, when I was, then once I got married it changed because then we would go to his parents' house.

BAK:Okay.

OO:And then we would go to my parents' house the next time or the summer we would switch. But I always tried to go home.

BAK:Okay.

OO:Yes, ma'am.

BAK:Did you have any notably good or bad experiences with supervisors? Or have you mentored other sailors or?

OO:Yes, I have mentored other sailors and I've had good and bad experiences. What specifically do you mean?

BAK:Well, so it's just a question of what was your supervisor experience and then mentor experience?

OO:With supervisors for the most part, it was good. I'm trying to think if I've had any bad experiences, but not really. It's more with the sailors that are at your level that sometimes, you know, have bad experiences with, so I don't think with the supervisors, it's been a negative thing. But I've been lucky to mentor people and help people. Actually, Robin Hamilton, I remember I was a E-6 and I remember seeing her working and helping people and I asked her if she could be my mentor because I never had a mentor for a while. I guess I kind of kept to myself.

BAK:Okay.

OO:I didn't reach out to people much, but I reached out to her once and then she became my mentor, and she helped me a lot. But as a chief, like I was saying we have the chief initiation every year, so every year when we have the new chief selects, we get to mentor them and help them come into this role of becoming a chief, so I've been able to do that since I became a chief in 2016, so I guess 2018 is when I started mentoring and helping the new chiefs, so that's a wonderful experience. And also, I've had some sailors, they're like, chief you're the best. Thank you so much for all that you do. I have one sailor; he went to Germany, and he brought me a little stein as a gift.

BAK:Aww!

OO:He's like, "You're the best. You are always helping us." Because I try to be there for them. That is my purpose, is to be there for them. This one sailor actually, she was going, this happened recently. She's trying to be a firefighter because in the reserves we kind of have a civilian life, so she's trying to be a firefighter. And I was doing a funeral service, and the other sailor, he's a firefighter. And I told him, I was bragging about her. I'm saying, "Hey, she's going to an interview for firefighting." And he was like, "Tell her to call me. I will help her, and she has to do this, and this, and this." And I got them together and she called me, she's like, "Senior, thank you so much for helping me." Because she passed, she passed the interview and they're going to hire her for Greensboro.

BAK:Oh, that's great. That's so great.

OO:Greensboro fire department. She's like, it's been my dream since I was fifteen. And so I mean, the things like that, my parents, at first, they hated me going into the navy, but now they're so proud of me and I feel like I make my kids proud. And I mean, I never thought I would be in twenty-four years. I always thought it was going to be a four-year tour and I would go to college because that's why I joined, so I could do the GI Bill and I feel like—

[End of Interview]