Oral history interview with JoAnne Smart Drane, 2008

HT: Today is Thursday, June 5, 2008. My name is Hermann Trojanowski. I'm at the home of JoAnne Smart Drane in Raleigh, North Carolina, and we're here to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection. JoAnne, thank you so much for seeing me this afternoon. If you tell me your name, we will see how you sound on this machine.

JSD: Okay. My name is Elizabeth JoAnne Smart Drane.

HT: I'd like to start the interview today by asking about your background, about when you were born, where you were born and something about your family.

JSD: Okay. I was born here in Raleigh, October 20, 1938 at St. Agnes Hospital. My parents are Cora and Monroe Smart. I am an only child. I never had any brothers or sisters. Spent all of my early childhood in Raleigh, and until I 00:01:00went to school in Greensboro, that's where I was for eighteen or seventeen or eighteen years. We lived in the section of town that was called Fourth Ward. It was largely a black community with fringes of several white families near-very near to where we lived, and growing up I played with some of the little white kids in that area, but for the most part it was a predominantly black neighborhood.

HT: Now, where is the Fourth Ward?

JSD: Fourth Ward is near downtown Raleigh. It's, uh, the street that I grew up on was Saunders Street, and it's within I would say seven or eight blocks from the downtown area near an area that now is called Boylan Heights, and the school for the white children in my neighborhood was within two blocks of where I lived, but instead I walked ten-twelve blocks to the all-black elementary school which was some distance from my home, but it would have been very easy for me to have gone two blocks away to the predominantly - or to the all-white school that was behind us.

HJ: Now, where did you go to high school?

JSD: Went to high school [at] Ligon, John W. Ligon High School, and Ligon was a 00:03:00fairly new school. As a matter of fact, I was in the first sophomore class at Ligon, and that would have been in '53. It was built, I think, in response to the efforts of Southerners to really stand behind the separate but equal provisions, because many of the schools were separate, but certainly not equal, and Ligon was built in the early 1950s. So, when I went it was a brand new school, and my class was the first sophomore class in that facility.

HT: This was not an integrated school, I assume?

JSD: It was not. It was an all-black high school, all-black teachers, all-black 00:04:00students. As a matter of fact it was called a junior senior high school. So, it had grades seven through twelve.

HT: Do you recall what your favorite subjects were in high school?

JSD: I certainly off the top of my head know what my favorite sub-my-the subjects that were not my favorite subjects, and they were math. I did not like math. I was not a particularly good math student. Nor did I really like English, and I think one of the reasons is that we spent a lot of time conjugating verbs, and that is the most interesting things to do.

HT: It's one of the most boring-

JSD: Absolutely, and, so, I thought why would anybody want to study English. I've come to certainly appreciate that over the years, but it certainly was not a class that I looked forward to. I didn't have especially good English 00:05:00teachers, but the other teachers in my school were outstanding, and I am so appreciative to have had the kind of caring, encouraging attitude from most of those teachers who could have been in other times other things, but teaching was a career option that was available to them, while so many others, the doors were closed. So, I think from the standpoint of having some of the best teachers, I was really very blessed to have.

HT: Did you participate in any extracurricular activities?

JSD: I was a cheerleader. I was the president of my class. I participated in student council, glee club, wow. Many of the extracurricular activities in my 00:06:00high school, I was very engaged.

HT: Well, why did you decide to attend Woman's College?

JSD: I think the major reason is, I reflect on this was the Supreme Court decision Brown v. [Board of Education], and the realization that steps had been made to open up opportunities for black students to attend whatever schools they chose to if they were qualified to do so; and, so, once I was aware of Brown v. Board of Education, it just seemed to offer a lot of hope for doing things that 00:07:00had not been done previously; and, so, I realized that, this was an opportunity that could be had. So, why not pursue it?

HT: Do you recall how you first found out that this might be a possibility for you?

JSD: It was very much that once the Supreme Court decision was announced, it was big news in my school. I mean we heard a lot about-about the Supreme Court decision in our classes, by our principal And I think we all had the impression that within the next year we were going to be going to school with white kids, and they were going to be going to school with us. Little did we realize that it would be years and years before this actually transpired. But at that moment, at 00:08:00that particular time we thought that it was going to be something that we needed to prepare for, because it was on the way.

HT: Do you recall if you were encouraged by school counselors or anything like that?

JSD: Not particularly in terms of, making inroads into certain areas, but we were always told that we needed to be prepared because when it occurred. And I don't think we thought that we would have to make those kinds of decisions, that they were being made, and we would certainly be involved in them-the actual.

HT: To your knowledge, did your high school class mates-do something similar to what you did?

JSD: Oh, yes, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. As a matter of fact one of my classmates also applied to the Woman's College, and then two of my classmates were the-were two 00:09:00of the first blacks admitted to North Carolina State University undergraduate. And we all with the exception of the other student who applied to the Woman's College, we all entered into the previously all-white universities at the same time. The two young men going to State, and I think they may have enrolled in summer school so they would have entered during the summer session, and I didn't enter into the fall session. But the other young woman did not finish, did not complete her admission requirements. So, therefore, was not admitted. But I expect would have been had she done all of the things that she would have needed to do.

HT: Did you apply to any other colleges other than [Woman's College].

JSD: I did. I did. I applied specifically to North Carolina Central in Durham. I wanted to apply to Fisk in Nashville, Tennessee because I had heard a lot about Fisk and the outstanding program. And, also, knew some of my teachers who had gone to Fisk. But did not because it was outside the realm of financial possibilities.

HT: Fisk is a private institution?

JSD: It is a private institution in Tennessee, and even though it would have been a wonderful experience, my parents would not have been able to afford it, the tuition. And there wasn't really, to my knowledge that much difference in the tuition for public institutions in North Carolina at that time whether they be historically black or not. So, it was more reasonable for me to think about 00:11:00going to a public institution in the state. I knew I didn't want to go-I knew I didn't want to stay at home and go to school at home. I wanted the experience of going, getting away from home and going to school, so.

HT: What had you planned to major-what was your major going to be?

JSD: Well, largely in the field of education. I didn't know, I know I wanted to be some kind of a teacher. I didn't know what I wanted to be an elementary teacher or a high school teacher, but I was more inclined towards high school, I think, than elementary, but it was in the teaching profession.

HT: Well, tell me your thoughts about attending an all-white college?

JSD: Um, boy, that's a that's a very broad question. I don't know, Hermann that 00:12:00I really gave a lot of thought to what it was going to be like. I've always been very adventuresome and curious. And my expectations, I think, were that this was going to be an interesting experience, and we'll just see where it takes us. The idea intrigued me of being amongst the first of the black students to attend this school. And I knew that would be a possibility. I didn't know how many of us would be there or what that might entail. But I had-as I look back over my life, I had a number of experiences that I did not realize at the time that perhaps paved the way for me having the kind of experience I had at Woman's 00:13:00College. We talked earlier about the fact that my acceptance letter was sent to Blowing Rock. Well, from the time I was nine years old, I accompanied my mother each summer to Blowing Rock. And she worked for a wealthy family who owned a summer home up in Blowing Rock. And for the most part I never saw any other black kids in Blowing Rock at that particularly time. So, the kids that I played with during those summers were either grandchildren or children of wealthy families who had summer homes there. The-one of the ladies that my mother worked 00:14:00for arranged for me to go to the library after library hours were over, because blacks were not allowed to go to the libraries and there weren't that many black people in that particular part of the state anyway in particular after the summer season-the summer season was over. But at any rate, she arranged for me to go to the library, check out books, and then be able to return them. I don't remember the librarian's name. But she would stay a few minutes afterwards so I could come and go. I went to each day there was a-there was a theater downtown-not-well Blowing Rock, the village of Blowing Rock. But at any rate, 00:15:00there was this theater, and it only opened in the afternoon for the matinee, and then it opened again at night, maybe at 7 o'clock or so for the two evening features. And after a certain period of time the box office closed because people who were coming to the movie would be there. I would sneak upstairs in the section where-which was reserved for blacks. So, I saw all these movies. I never told my mother that I was sneaking upstairs. I never had to pay, because I was sneaking upstairs to watch all these-and this was the era of all the musicals and all that. So, as I think about these various experiences that I had as a young child, and the impressions, that some of those barriers that may have 00:16:00been more prominent for some kids didn't seem to be as much as a barrier for me. So, I really believed that when they said that black people could go to other schools that somebody meant that. So, that was a privilege and an opportunity for me to take advantage of. I mean, it wasn't a scary kind of thought at all. I was just looking forward to what the next thing was going-what the next thing was going to be, so.

HT: Well, how did your parents prepare you for all of this?

JSD: As I think about it, my-my preparation largely came not so much from my parents as through my teachers once they realized and once they knew that I was 00:17:00going to be going to this previously all-white school. Then they were the ones who talked to me about what kinds of things I might expect, what kind of experiences I might have. And, boosted my courage and that kind of thing. I also had encouragement from a source that might not have expected, and that was a woman who was a friend-who was a friend of the Thompsons, or the ladies that my mother worked for. And she lived in New York. And her last name was Cannon. She was a Mrs. Cannon-I don't know what the relationship was between-how the Thompsons knew her or whether or not she was of the Cannon family of North 00:18:00Carolina or not. But she said to me that I should-she advised me that I should be very natural that I should not necessarily try to insinuate myself or put myself in places where I may not be wanted or accepted. And one of the things that I remembered-and she said that a smile does much. You don't have to be grinning and laughing and overly emotional, but just a smile is sufficient. And I found out that that was very good advice, because it worked very well in my experiences as I recall. And I think the reason that stood out so much to me 00:19:00because there was that caricature of black people always grinning and overreacting. And I certainly did not want that to be the impression that people got from me, but I do remember her thinking that important enough to share with me. And I remembered it. I have all these many years.

HT: Well, what did your extended family and your friends think after you were accepted?

JSD: Well, you get various reactions. I think some people were extremely pleased and proud and patted you on the back and just encouraged you just were so ecstatic about it, and there were others that were very fearful and who wondered, "Why would you want to do this?" And based on their experiences in 00:20:00other situations, "You know you're not going to be accepted. You know that people are going to be doing bad things." "Why would you want to put yourself in this?" But for the most part I think people were very accepting and curious. And my mother would say that when she would be going back and forth to work she could hardly get to where she was going because people were stopping her and finding out, "How is JoAnne doing? What's going on with her?" And some who had given the most negative reactions to it my mother really enjoyed saying that, "She is doing well. She is getting along fine," and just really showing that this situation could be very different that what people might have expected.

HT: How did your dad accept all this?

JSD: My dad was very, very, um, he didn't display his emotions very much about this. I think he was rather fearful, probably more fearful than he let on. Neither one of my parents really kind of let on that they were fearful about the situation. But I knew they were. And I ended up doing a lot more reassuring to them, which I think was important, because they heard it from me, and they knew I was okay. As the situation progressed that maybe some of their fears also were not-

HT: You sound like you were a very mature seventeen-year-old.

JSD: I don't know that I was, Hermann. But for example, when we talk about my parents role in all this, I told my-I told my mother that I was going to-I 00:22:00didn't really ask how she felt about it, or my dad. I just simply said, "This is something I wanted to do." And I don't think they ever really thought that anything was going to come of this. I think they were really kind of surprised. And when it did happen, I think they were resigned to the fact that this is something that I said I wanted to do. So, they were supportive, but probably would have preferred that I had gone to Central like my-.

HT: A more safe route?

JSD: Right, exactly. And I never-and this is selfishness on my part. I guess being an only child even though we were poor and did not have a lot by comparison, but by comparison by the people I knew in my community and my 00:23:00neighborhood, we were okay. But I never really thought about the impact of this on my parents, say, from the standpoint of losing their jobs, or having things said or done that would have been injurious and harmful to them. I just didn't-I couldn't conceive of it, so I didn't, that was naivety on my part. And while to my knowledge none of that actually happened, in hindsight I realize in terms of some things I learned from other people, that all of those were possibilities that could have occurred. And thank God they did not, as I said, as to my awareness. But in talking to some of the other students, I understand that jobs were threatened. And my parents were not educated. So, there weren't a lot of 00:24:00things that they could have done, other than what they were doing. And my dad was a chauffeur, and worked for one family all of his working life until he died. And my mother worked for the same family for, oh, I'm saying forty-five - fifty years. So, but you just kind of wonder.

HT: This family, did they ever say anything to you, the Thompsons?

JSD: They were very encouraging in my educational foundation and career experiences. Ms.-one of the sisters-there were three sisters: Elizabeth [Thompson], whom I'm named for, Lillian [Thompson], and Daisy [Thompson]. They 00:25:00never married; neither of the three of them had ever married. Their father had been a judge, and my mother began working for them when she was a teenager, like sixteen years of age, and worked for that family for the remainder of her life. I never knew their father. He had died before I was born. Elizabeth, who was the youngest of three was an interior decorator, and she had an interior decorator business here in Raleigh. Daisy, who was the youngest of the three sisters, always seemed very interested in how I was doing in school. I mean I can remember getting quarters or dollars for doing-for making A's or B's in school if I brought my report card. For every A I got a dollar. For every B I got fifty 00:26:00cents. And I never got anything for C's. So, there was that incentive to do well in school. They would do things like subscribe to children's magazines for me. And, so, I was probably the only kid on my block who had a subscription to a magazine coming to my home monthly with stories and games and that kind of-they always gave me books. I don't think, however, that they thought that pouring this interest into me-I really don't think they thought that eventually I was going to end up in an all-white school. But I am very appreciative for the kinds of things they did to encourage me to excel and to achieve in school. I also 00:27:00think about going back to the Blowing Rock experience. I didn't even realize this until much later, but Laura Cone of Greensboro had a home next door to the Thompsons' home, and she had grandchildren and children who would come and spend a portion of their summer with her. And I don't know how this happened. I assume Ms. Daisy was responsible. When they would go on like trips to Linville Falls or Linville Gorge or hike somehow or another they would take me with them. And, so I got to do some things as-I think the fact that there weren't that many children first of all in that area. So, I think they sensed the need for me to 00:28:00have interaction with other children. And, so, but I didn't know who Mrs. Cone was. I just knew that the Cone family lived next door to them, and that occasionally when there were things going on with the children they would involve me and include me. That's the first time I remember hiking down to the Linville Gorge and coming back. I remember that experience quite, quite vividly. But as I said, I didn't know who she was, and I didn't really make the association. I mean she had no-no involvement in my selecting Woman's College as a choice of school. But when I found out who she was I thought, "Wow, that was-that's the same Mrs. Cone that used to live next door to the Thompsons then." So, but anyway. I don't know if I answered that question. I've been going on all over the place at this point.

HT: Well, tell the story about how you found out that you'd been accepted to 00:29:00Woman's College.

JSD: Okay. It was-I believe it was August 11, and it was in the evening. My mother and I were in what were the servant's quarters. And one of the Thompson women came and said I had a long distance phone call which, just boggled my-I wasn't expecting, I really wasn't expecting to be informed this way at all. So, I went to answer the phone. And there was this reporter who identified himself as a reporter with the Associated Press. And he-and the first thing he said was, "How does it feel to be the first black accepted at the Woman's College." So, 00:30:00that hit me like a ton of bricks, because I had not received my acceptance letter. And it was getting fairly close to the beginning of school, because it was mid-August. And I had not heard anything from North Carolina Central, which is where I really thought that, I mean, I would have gotten the acceptance. And, so, I mean I was just-I was-it was mind boggling. And I don't really remember a lot of what I said to the reporter at that time. But I was quoted in the papers as saying how pleased I was that I had been accepted. And when I finished the conversation I could hardly get back to our quarters to share with my mother 00:31:00that I had been accepted. And we were-I mean all kinds of thoughts, feelings and all those kinds of things went through. I don't even know if I slept that night, because it was probably close to about 8:30 or 9 when I got the letter-I don't know. I mean when I got the phone call. I don't know how early it had been before he had gotten that information. It was, yeah.

HT: Do you recall what the reaction was on campus when you first arrived the first day of school in the fall of 1956?

JSD: Well, when I-when I first arrived there was no hoopla. And there wasn't this situation where people were standing around and aggravated and hostile. And 00:32:00none of those kinds of things. We arrived on campus pretty unobtrusively. We-well, I take that-when I say that-when we got-my dad's car overheated somewhere near the campus, and, so, when we drove on campus there was all this smoke billowing out of his vehicle. And, so, I mean that was a very embarrassing moment for me personally. I mean it was a real emergency for my parents. But at any rate some men who were nearby, some black men who were nearby came and helped my dad with the car. It apparently needed some water in the radiator. But 00:33:00while he was taking care of that my mom and I went into McIver and registered, and I don't recall, it was just very calm. I mean there was no-it was just like anybody else might have gone in to get their registration materials and being directed to where they needed to go, and that kind of thing. So, and once we got to the dorm, we were processed through the dorm, told where we needed to go to unload our things. And Bettye [Tillman] was already there. She had gotten there earlier that day. As I recall we were-this was about two or three o'clock in the afternoon when we got there. But unlike the situation with the-in Alabama with the governor standing in the door and blocking the enrollment of the students in 00:34:00Georgia or in some of those other places, there was just none of that. So, for that I am very, very grateful.

HT: Well, tell me about your first days on campus, what was it like, and what did you do?

JSD: As I recall, there were a lot of orientation kinds of activities scheduled. And we were placed in small groups. Interestingly, Bettye and I were never in the same group. I don't know whether that was intentional or it just happened that way. But she was in another group, and I was in-we were kind of split up. And as I recall the orientation consisted of helping us navigate the campus, which was certainly a much smaller campus than it is today. And there were some activities designed for us to meet staff, administrative staff like there was a 00:35:00tea at the president's house and some of those kinds of things. The students were fairly standoffish, in those small groups. But there was one student I remember who I connected with and who seemed very comfortable with another black-with a black student. So, she always, when we went places it was like she would always be very close, very nearby, and that kind of thing. So, I didn't feel that I was isolated totally from all of the others. There were students who didn't really want to-because of the culture of that day, probably, demanded that kind of behavior. But there was always somebody who sensed connected with you on some basis, so that was very important to making things go as smoothly 00:36:00and as well as they did. In my dorm, for example, we were divided up into sections, and even though Bettye and I were the only two students in a wing of that dorm, when the sections met, we were attached to one of those-one of those sections. And there were always one or two girls in those section meetings who you felt you could relate to or they related to you.

HT: Now, exactly what is a section?

JSD: Well, I don't know if you know Shaw [Residence Hall].

HT: Just from the outside.

JSD: Okay. In the interior of the dorm-let's say on the second floor, there would be-they would divide the hall into two parts. One part would be section one, another part would be section two. On the third floor, they would have-they 00:37:00were small groups. And, so, those small groups, then, would have what they call section meetings. And, so, Bettye and I were assigned to one of those small groups for whatever information was shared, whatever planning was done as a part of that group. We were made a part of that particular section. Ordinarily, had we been assigned to the wing of the dorm that we were on, that would have been one section. There were just two of us. So, they had to put us somewhere-into somewhere else.

HT: How long did divisions last like that? How long did you have your own half the dorm?

JSD: Entire year.

HT: The entire year?

JSD: Yes, the entire year. My understanding about how integration came about in 00:38:00the dorms is that-this would have been my junior year. They were still-my junior year they were-there was a freshman dorm, and there were five or six students assigned, black students, assigned to that dorm. Should we stop for a minute?

[recording paused]

HT: I think we were talking about Shaw Hall-how it had been divided in your junior year, and that sort of thing.

JSD: Well, in my junior year I lived in Ragsdale [Residence Hall], and Ragsdale and Mendenhall [Residence Hall] were the two newest dorms at that particular time, but there were an additional five or so black students on campus, and they 00:39:00were assigned to one of the freshman Quad dorms. Edith Wiggins, who was a freshman at that time, shared with me that they-in her dorm the white girls were assigned three and four to a room, and they were aware that there were these empty rooms on the first floor where the black students were housed, and inquired if they could move into some of those rooms because they were two and three-I mean three and four in a room. So, they had gone to the administration, asked permission to move to the lower floor in some of those vacant rooms and were told that they could do so only if their parents would agree, would consent.

HT: So, while you were a junior there was still one room-one floor was set aside-

JSD: For black students, for black students. And there were only five of them. So, you think about-how many students were denied at admission because there wasn't the housing for them? And, then, how many students were stacked three and four to a room just so they could live on campus.

HT: So, how many rooms were there in that half of the dorm floor?

JSD: Now, I don't remember the exact number. I had to go back on-but in Shaw, for example, I think there would have been-I'm thinking, well, I'm thinking there would have been maybe ten rooms on that particular wing. So, if you had 00:41:00ten rooms and two students per room, that would have been like twenty students could have been on that-

HT: For some reason I thought the division was only the first year that you were there, and then after that-

JSD: It was just the first year, but in Shaw [Residence Hall].

HT: In Shaw.

JSD: Okay, the second year I was there, there were only three black students admitted. And instead of them being placed on a dorm, they-one of the black students was my roommate, Margaret Horton, a freshman, was my roommate. The other black student who lived on campus shared a room with Bettye Davis, and we were in Ragsdale and Mendenhall. So, those two students never lived in a freshman dorm. The third student was Claudette [Graves] Burroughs, and she-

HT: Was a town student.

JSD: -a town student. So, there were five students total. Four of us lived on 00:42:00campus. Then my junior year, I believe, there were five students who were residential students. There may have been other black students, but they didn't live on campus. And for those five residential students, they were placed in a freshman dorm and lived on a floor by themselves. Now, I don't know-it wasn't Shaw. They were placed in another dorm. And it was like Coit or Weil or one of those. I really don't know which one of those dorms. But it was that year when the dorms finally became integrated. And that was from the white students requesting that they be allowed to move on those floors.

HT: So, that would have been in-

JSD: That would have been '57-'58.

HT: '57-'58.

JSD: It would have been '56, '57, '58, '58, '59. That would have been my junior 00:43:00year. And that story probably could be verified by Edith Wiggins, who was one of those students.

HT: While you were living in Shaw that first year, can you tell