Oral history interview with Sheila Cunningham Sims, 2012

HT: Today is Thursday, April 12, 2012, and my name is Hermann Trojanowski and I'm at the Alumni House with Sheila Cunningham Sims, Class of 1962, and we're here to conduct an oral history interview for the African American Institutional Memory Project, which is part of the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection. Mrs. Sims, thank you so much for coming all the way from California. It's wonderful to meet you.

SS: Thank you. It's good to be here.

HT: You're so welcome. Well, if you will tell me something about your life; about when and where you were born, and about your family and that sort of thing.

SS: Okay, I was born right here in Greensboro. I was the third child in a family of four, the third girl, and my father worked at A&T College [North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State College]. He was the registrar when I was born, I think, and I think before that he had been a professor in the Bacteriology Department. Before he married my mother, my mother was a teacher in Georgia and 00:01:00my father was at that time working at Albany State College. That's how he met my mother. They married and he got a job at A&T and he moved to A&T and he was part of the staff there for thirty-five years before he retired, so I pretty much grew up playing and riding my bicycle and skating and all of that on A&T College's campus. Bennett College was like two blocks behind us and that was another favorite campus of mine because that's where the library was. It was called the Carnegie Negro Library at the time and I loved going to that library. I just loved to read. I think I read every book in the children's department. So I grew up in a family that was very education-oriented. We had lots of books and magazines and newspapers and we didn't have a television [laughter] until I was-I think I was almost a teenager when we finally got a TV. And we didn't have a car so we didn't travel a lot so I think that experience led to my love of two 00:02:00things: I love to read and I love to travel.

HT: And where did you go to high school?

SS: Well, it's interesting. My schooling from elementary up to high school-Well, I was in the public schools during elementary and then for middle school and high school I went to a Lutheran school. It was Emmanuel Lutheran College; it was called [that] because it was a four-year high school and a two-year college combined. That school was torn down. I think A&T College bought the property.

HT: So that was here in Greensboro?

SS: Yes, right. Right here in Greensboro so my high school is not around anymore; it was torn down, I guess, in the sixties and A&T has the property. So that's where I went to school. It was a very, very small school. I wanted to go to the public school-Dudley-because it was larger and would have had more activities.

HT: So was this a Lutheran-sponsored school?

SS: Yes. Right.

HT: Well, what was your favorite subject in high school?

SS: Oh, I loved school and I loved all my subjects. I loved English; I loved history-everything, pretty much-and I loved the sciences. In fact, I loved biology. That's what I really liked. So I have a love of learning. I guess you could say I'm a life-long learner and I hated to miss school so I really enjoyed going to school.

HT: And when did you graduate from high school?

SS: Oh my goodness; 1958. [laughter] I was very young at the time, too. I graduated from high school at age sixteen and went into college in that September at age sixteen, so I was a little younger than most of my classmates. Yes.

HT: So you must have started first grade very young.

SS: Yes, I started school at age four. As I said, my mother had been a teacher 00:04:00and she taught us all to read so I guess as soon as we could read, she sent us to school. I can't remember not knowing how to read so I did go to school at four when I could read.

HT: Well, I know you transferred to the Woman's College from Spelman [College]. What made you decide to go to Spelman?

SS: Well, you know my mother had gone to Spelman and so that would have been sort of-It's called a "granddaughter legacy." In fact, they had a little club at Spelman called the Granddaughters' Club and, again, I guess it was my sense of adventure. I wanted to go away from home and what happened: I took the exam for-It's called United Negro College Fund exam and you listed the college you wanted to go to and that's the only one I could think of-I listed Spelman, because I knew it was in Atlanta. I won a scholarship so I went to Spelman and I was so excited to get away from home. I took the train down from Greensboro to Atlanta and, of course, Atlanta is a very exciting big city, especially when 00:05:00you're a teenager. It was so much fun living in the dormitory, being away from home and being exposed to, you know, all of the activities that were going on in Atlanta.

HT: Did your parents go with you on the train down to Atlanta?

SS: No, they did not.

HT: Nobody?

SS: No.

HT: You went by yourself?

SS: I went by myself, yes, but by the time you were approaching Atlanta, you would have picked up a lot of other students because Atlanta has about five or six historically black colleges so by then, you know. But it was fun because Spelman had a very nice program. They had a big sister program so before I left home, I had already received a letter from my big sister and she was welcoming me in. She said she would be on campus during the freshman orientation so it was a very friendly; very, very friendly atmosphere.

HT: So, did you enjoy your time at Spelman?

SS: I loved it; loved it, yes. I was away from home for the first time. I could date if I wanted to. I could go to all the school dances because I didn't do any 00:06:00of that in high school. I have to mention that my parents were sort of on the over-protective side so I didn't do those things in high school. I didn't date; I didn't go to dances or parties or that kind of thing. I could go to one football game, maybe one basketball game, but, you know, it was really nice. I had freedom. So I had a good time. [laughter] I went to every dance, which I think is typical of many freshman. You socialize a lot. So, it was great. And then to be in a big city; that was great, too.

HT: Do you have any vivid memories of your time at Spelman? Anything in particular happened?

SS: Oh, so much; so many. I do know that the civil rights marches, once they started-you know the sit-ins and all of that-that really spread like wildfire throughout the South.

HT: So you were at Spelman during the Greensboro Sit-ins?

SS: Right, that is correct and I got a letter-I had friends at A&T who told me about it and we were writing letters and so of course that movement spread to Atlanta. I know I was in some marches. You know King [Martin Luther King, Jr.] 00:07:00had moved back. He was in Atlanta at that time and I don't know if they had any sit-ins at the Woolworth's in Atlanta, but I know they did a lot of picketing and boycotts. They would say, "Don't shop here" because, you know-but that would have been downtown. You know at that time there was a lot of strict segregation; therefore, you would have to leave the African American community to go to the downtown community for your activism. So you would have to go there to do the picketing and the boycotting. So that was my first taste of being in a social justice program which I continue to do to this day.

HT: Well what made you decide to leave Spelman after two years?

SS: I think it was my mother [who] had something to do with that. She figured I was having too good a time or getting too serious about my boyfriend which I wasn't, of course, but, you know, it wasn't-I was very upset at first but it 00:08:00wasn't a bad decision because I was coming from a very small school-Spelman was very small-and then to come to a very large university of three or four thousand; I think it was a good growth experience. But it was my mother's decision; it was not mine. [laughter]

HT: Did you fight it along the way?

SS: Oh, yes, but that was a losing battle. [laughing] I learned that very, very early. It's hard to win an argument with your parents.

HT: Was there any kind of special process that you had to go through in order to transfer from one school to another?

SS: No, it was so fast. I just sent for the application and filled it out and next thing, I got a letter of acceptance.

HT: So you would have come here in the fall of '60 as a junior.

SS: Yes, as a junior. That is correct. Yes. Now I can tell you that I had a lot of apprehension about coming here. In my head, I feared I would come here to this campus and people would call me names, throw tomatoes at me, and I would be 00:09:00mistreated because I had heard all these horror stories and you'd seen them on television. You saw what was happening at the University of Georgia or the University of Mississippi and I don't know why I thought that was going to happen to me. I thought that no one would speak to me; that I would spend the next two years, you know, not communicating with anybody. I just didn't know how I was going to be treated so I was really very pleasantly surprised when I got on this campus and, just walking around, people would speak to me. These were the professors and teachers so I thought, "Oh, maybe they're glad to see me." So it was not like my fear; it was not like my apprehension. I think when you grow up in a strictly segregated society like Greensboro was at that time; you don't know people as people. You just read about them in the newspaper and you think that everybody is going to act like that. But it was not the case, I'm happy to say.

HT: And did your parents bring you to campus the first time or-

SS: No.

HT: You just came by yourself?

SS: Yes.

HT: And did you have a car by that time?

SS: No, we did not have a car. We still did not have a car and at least, I would have caught the bus. So it was quite an interesting experience. I literally had one foot in one world-the African American community, which, like I said was strictly segregated-but then one foot out here as a campus. So this was my, I would say, student life and it was pleasant.

HT: You were a town student.

SS: I was a town student so I would catch the bus every morning. I'd get on the bus stop about 7:30 in the morning; catch the bus on Market Street; and I think I changed busses somewhere-downtown Greensboro-and then the bus would drop me off somewhere here and then I would-

HT: Well, being a town student, were you able to be involved with campus life very much?

SS: Somewhat, as long as the bus schedule was agreeable. So I did come out here-I can recall coming to a dance. I came with my only date; I think he was a 00:11:00student at A&T and we came to a school dance. And I think I once came to a concert; there was some group that was here from Chapel Hill and they put on a program. I did come to programs, I remember, at Aycock [Auditorium]; I did come to several programs or lectures there. We had a student lounge, a day-student lounge, and I spent a lot of time there. That's where we could hang out and we could relax, put your books down between classes. That's where I got to know many of the other students.

HT: Do you recall where that lounge was?

SS: It was near here; it was near the Alumni House, on the other side. No, it was downstairs so maybe it was-what's the name? Elliott?

HT: Elliott University Center.

SS: Yes, so it would have been downstairs. I remember that. But I thought the alumni office was upstairs at that time in that building. Maybe it wasn't.

HT: It's always been in this building.

SS: Okay, maybe it was another office that I'm-but I guess we had lockers and, 00:12:00you know. That's where I got to know many of the students. We could sit around and talk and relax and talk about your test, talk about-

HT: Did you want to stay on campus, by any chance?

SS: I knew that was not going to happen because I was at home.

HT: Well, which courses did you take while you were here.

SS: It ended up I majored in education. I don't know why I transferred into that. Maybe it's in the family genes because I would have been like a third-generation educator. Like I said, both my parents were in education and my grandfather on my dad's side had been a teacher so I guess it was in my genes. When I was at Spelman, I had taken a biology major, but again, as I said, I was sixteen. I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. What did I think I wanted to 00:13:00be? A medical technologist. That's what I wanted. And I thought I should major in biology to do that and I did not know anything about medical technology. Somehow or another, I just hooked on to that career and not knowing anything about it. So I took a lot of science courses there and then when I came here, I switched into education and the School of Education was very good here. I don't know where they are located now, but-

HT: They have a brand new building just down the street here.

SS: Okay, I'll probably see that on the tour tomorrow, but it was excellent. I can say that the University of North Carolina-UNCG-had a really good department, better than some other departments of larger universities. They had a demonstration school-the elementary school-where we could go and observe, you know. So they would say, "Okay, this week we're going to observe a math lesson" or "we're going to observe" a social studies lesson or a science lesson or a reading lesson. It was very good. And they also-When I took child psychology, they had a demonstration nursery school because we had to do a case study-we had 00:14:00to choose a student-and the nursery school was right here on campus.

HT: We still have that.

SS: Oh, good. That's good to know; that's good to know, but I think the school is closed.

HT: Yes, the school-the Curry School-closed in 1970.

SS: Okay.

HT: Now did you do your teaching-your student teaching-over at Curry?

SS: Oh, no, we had to go into the community and so they sent me again to the African American community to do my student teaching and it was at Bluford School. That worked out very nicely. That was third grade; I remember that. And when I graduated, the principal hired me. That's where I taught-

HT: That worked real well for you.

SS: A year or two. Right. It was a lovely school, very nice, and I guess I looked so young. I can remember my first year teaching, I wondered why parents would come by and kind of look in the classroom and, you know, I thought, "Why are they looking at me?" not realizing that my second graders-One parent said, "Who's your teacher?" and the little second-grader boy told her, "I don't know. 00:15:00Some girl." [both laughing] I guess I looked so young. But it was a great experience. I remember that; the School of Education organized it very well. I would go-I think you would do student teaching so many days and then they would send a cab to Bluford School to bring me out here and then we would sit around in a seminar and discuss our experiences and what was happening in what we were doing. My advisor in the School of Education, I think, was Dr. Eugenia Hunter. Does that name-

HT: It sounds familiar.

SS: Yes, I think so because I was reading the program and I don't remember the head of the education department but I do remember Dr. Eugenia Hunter. She was very good. I know that; she was very good; she was a good advisor.

HT: What do you recall about the rules and regulations on campus from those days? They may not have affected you since you were a day student.

SS: They did not affect me, no. That's right they did not affect me.

HT: If you were living in a dorm, there were all kinds of rules and regulations and that sort of thing.

SS: It would not have affected me. No.

HT: Well, do you wish you had stayed on campus since you were a town student?

SS: It might have been better socially. I would have met more students that way and had more opportunities to be part of different activities but things were happening so fast, I just didn't have an opportunity to do that. Commuting was kind of difficult, you know, in the rain and in the cold weather so it would have made it better. But my social life was centered around A&T College because I would go to parties over at the A&T College and go to their school dances. And that's where I met a lot of people.

HT: Now, when you came back to Greensboro, did you ever give any thoughts to going to A&T or Bennett College?

SS: No, no, I didn't want to go to A&T because my two sisters were there and my 00:17:00dad worked there. I did not want to go there.

HT: Well, I think I was looking up your page in the annual recently. And-

SS: Oh, good. I haven't seen my annual in a long, long time. HT: I don't know if we have one here or not, but apparently you belonged to an organization called the Canterbury Club. Do you recall what that was?

SS: Yes. The Canterbury Club was an Episcopal organization for college students and I first joined it when I was at Spelman and then when I came here, I joined it. I just went to it when they had some activities so we essentially just got together with other Episcopal [unclear, loud noise in background]. That was kind of fun.

HT: And tell us about SNEA. I haven't got a clue as to what those initials mean.

SS: It must have been a student-Is that the National Education Association?

HT: Maybe that's it. That would make sense.

SS: Right.

HT: So that would have been almost like a professional organization.

SS: That's correct; or the student version of it. Right.

HT: And then you also were on the Elliott Hall Entertainment Committee.

SS: Oh, I hope we planned some good activities. I don't remember but I must have because-What else was I in?

HT: And the Town Student Association. That makes sense.

SS: Yes, right. And I can remember doing some things with the class. I think-I