00:00:00HT: Today is Friday, June 7, 2013, and I'm in Jackson Library with Dorothy
Moore-Duncan, Class of '69, and we're here to conduct an oral history interview
for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection's African American Institutional
Memory Project. Thank you so much for coming all the way from Philadelphia to
visit us today, and we're glad to have you are on campus again.
DM: Well, thank you.
HT: Let's get the interview started by my asking you something about your
childhood: when and where you were born, and a little bit about your family.
DM: I was born in 1948 in a small town called Rowland, North Carolina, near the
South Carolina border. That's in Robeson County. I am the third of four
children. I have two older sisters, and a younger brother. My parents were
schoolteachers, and they both taught in the public school system, initially in
00:01:00Robeson County, and we moved when I was a third-grader, I think, to Montgomery
County where my mother taught school, and my father taught school in Wadesboro,
North Carolina, and I graduated from high school at Peabody High School in Troy,
North Carolina. And of course undergraduate school here at UNCG.
HT: What did your parents teach? High school, elementary.
DM: My father taught high school, and my mother taught elementary school. My
mother ended up being the superintendent of the elementary schools for
Montgomery County. As a matter of fact, my mother was one of the first teachers
00:02:00that desegregated the teaching staff at the schools. She was moved from Peabody
Elementary School over to what then was the predominantly white elementary
school in Troy. She taught reading and some other special [topics] that I don't
remember, and thereafter she became the superintendent of the elementary
education center.
HT: I assume that education was always very important to your family.
DM: Absolutely. As I've said before, my parents' philosophy was: it wasn't a
question of if you went to college; it was which college were you going to
attend. Yes, so it was very important.
HT: And when you chose UNCG, what did they think about that?
DM: You know, they didn't say anything much about the selection of UNCG. One
00:03:00back-story is my father attended A&T, and when he was a student there, he used
to work at what was Woman's College at the time. He used to work here. Now doing
what-I'm sure he probably told me, I just don't remember what it was now-but I
think he was happy I was attending here. And I think my mom didn't express any
view one way or the other as long as it was a school that I was happy with the choice.
HT: And what were the circumstances around why you chose to come here as opposed
to A&T perhaps, or Bennett College, or Shaw [University], or a historically
black school?
DM: It didn't surprise me when you mentioned Bennett. I attended Bennett during
high school. They had what was called the "Saturday School," and you would take
the regular college courses at Bennett, and if you chose to attend Bennett, they
00:04:00would give you credit for those courses taken at the Saturday School. And I had
attended the Saturday School for at least two, maybe three years. I'm not quite
sure how many years now. But by the time I finished high school, I think I had
been at Bennett long enough; at least that's the perception of a seventeen year
old, and I didn't want to go to Bennett. I didn't want to go to A&T because my
dad had gone to A&T-all kinds of superficial things that a seventeen-year-old
thinks about. And it was close to home, and when I expressed a desire to go
someplace further from home, my dad said, "Yes, well okay, that's fine, but you
come home once a year." And so I don't know whether I can say it was UNCG by
default. It was also the era when schools were becoming desegregated and it was
00:05:00at a time when you were looking for what we deemed, at that moment, a quality
education, and this was one of the very good schools in the area.
HT: Now when you got here, it had already been integrated a few years, and men
were accepted and came in the fall of '64, but it still had a lot of the
traditions of Woman's College, I assume, by the time you got here.
DM: Well, yes. I came in 1965, and, yes, there were still a lot of traditions. I
think there were very few males on campus. They were, by and large, town
students, I guess is what we used to designate that, and they didn't have any-I
don't think they had dorms available for male students at the time.
HT: I think they had one.
DM: Maybe so.
HT: But very few.
DM: Very few, and I can only remember three African American men at the time who
00:06:00were here.
HT: Charles Cole [Class of 1969].
DM: Yes.
HT: Larry McAdoo [Class of 1968] and I think-
DM: Jon-and I can't remember his last name. [Jon McKinley Brawner, Class of 1970]
HT: I think it was Reginald. I'm not sure. But yes, there were very few white
guys on campus and even fewer African American guys. It was just almost unheard
of. Well, what was it like growing up in the late 1950s and early 1960s in North Carolina.
DM: It was very segregated. I grew up in small rural communities. In Robeson
County, it was primarily made up of African Americans, whites, and Indians, and
it was a farming community, and so it wasn't-in that sense-very prosperous. I
00:07:00have to-Now it's really a poor community because a lot of the farming is not
done there anymore. And so I think, when I go back to Robeson County, it's very
sad that there's nothing, no industry there, and no jobs there for people.
Growing up in Troy, which was a little more populated, but the population of the
town probably might be thirty-five hundred people or maybe a little more than
that. Again, it's a segregated community: Black folk lived on one side of town;
white folk lived on the other side of town and never the twain should meet. It
seems to be different now, and you have not only African Americans and whites:
you have an Asian population, and you also have a Hispanic population, and
00:08:00that's very different from what it was when I grew up. If I can go back for a
minute: When I was a child in Robeson County, we used to have a lot of-because
it was such a large farming community-a lot of migrant labor coming through
Rowland. I don't know when that migrant labor stopped coming through there, but,
you know, maybe it was when the industry-the farming industry-started to slow
down, because then there was no need for a lot of migrant labor. But you know my
parents owned a farm so we worked on the farm even though they taught school. We
worked on the farm and so we did things like harvesting tobacco, picking cotton,
picking tomatoes, those kind of thing, and they used migrant labor also but,
again, I don't know when all that stopped.
HT: Let's see, you mentioned that there's very little or no industry down there
so I'm assuming it's still very rural and agricultural.
00:09:00
DM: In Rowland it is still rural and it's still agricultural, but it seems to be
a combination of farms now, and unless you have, I think, a contract with a
tobacco company, I don't know that tobacco is planted in such great numbers
anymore. It see soybeans when I go down there but I get down there infrequently
and so I'm not down there in the summer when most of the growing would happen,
so I'm not quite sure what they do in that area anymore. I just know when I look
around at people, they don't seem to have employment. Around the Troy area,
there used to be a lot of textile places, and those are no longer there either.
There used to be furniture places, of course, in the High Point area. That seems
00:10:00not to be there anymore. All of those things seem to have gone offshore.
HT: We have lost so much of that in the last ten to fifteen years. Textiles have
moved overseas. Furniture-well, some furniture is still made, but a lots of
that's gone.
DM: A lot of it has gone offshore too. And in Troy it looks like it's a lot of,
you know, service industry. There's some healthcare institutions around there,
like some nursing homes, and hospitals, so you have that, but I don't see a lot
else around that area.
HT: I notice so many of the rural areas here in North Carolina have really
suffered. There's a lot of poverty and that sort of thing.
DM: Yes, I think so.
HT: It's a shame.
DM: It truly is.
HT: It truly is, yes, and it's particularly in the eastern part of North
Carolina, southeastern. It's terrible. Well, when you were in high school, do
you recall what your favorite subjects were?
00:11:00
DM: Yes, it was probably biology, chemistry, math.
HT: And were you going to major in anything specific in high school-I mean, I'm
sorry-in college when you got here?
DM: Yes, as a matter of fact, I started off as biology major and took the basic
biology courses and [changes tone of voice] I don't think so. I switched my
major to political science.
HT: Very quickly.
DM: It didn't take long.
HT: So was it just political science or political science and history?
DM: I think it was just political science.
HT: Political science.
DM: I didn't do a double major or a-If I did a minor, I don't remember, okay.
HT: Well, what do you recall about your first days on campus in, I guess, the
fall, or '65, you said?
DM: Yes. It was a little bit scary, but I guess it is for anybody who's starting
00:12:00out on a new path.
HT: Had you been to campus prior to that?
DM: I don't think I did. I don't think I came to campus before that. So my first
day was my first day. My roommate freshman year was-Is it okay to use names?
HT: Oh, yes.
DM: Alice McCollum [Class of 1969] and so when I walked in the room that day,
she introduced herself, and she was crying because her parents had dropped her
off at college and left. It's funny, and maybe one of your prior interviewees
has told you that there were five of us during the course of that time who
bonded and have remained friends from 1965 to this day. And Alice is one of
00:13:00those people that I bonded with, or one of the five that I bonded with during
that time period. We were roommates our freshman year; we weren't roommates
after that, but the friendship has lasted. She's now a probate court judge in
Dayton, Ohio.
HT: And which dorm were you in, and were all the black students in one dorm? How
did that work?
DM: No, all the black students were not in one dorm, but the university seemed
to have gone to great pains to make sure that the black students were rooming
together so that there was one student whose-and there were [unclear] required
to submit photos with your application-and one of the young women's photo, she
was very fair, and so I think they thought she was not African American, so she
was put in the room with two other young women who happened to have been white.
00:14:00And when they discovered the error, it was, "Oops, the computer made a mistake,"
and she was moved into a room with two African American freshmen. I didn't have
that problem because I was paired with Alice but, as I said, I think that there
was malice aforethought in whom to put as roommates, but we were not all in the
same dorm.
HT: So you just had one roommate, and there were not two other students.
DM: No, I had just one roommate, and I was in Coit Hall.
HT: I guess you've heard that Coit has been-Well, all the Quad has been renovated?
DM: I'd heard that.
HT: Maybe you'll get a chance to see that afterwards if it's not raining too
much. They've done a beautiful job.
DM: Oh, great.
HT: Very nice. So, who was your roommate in subsequent years; sophomore.
00:15:00
DM: My sophomore year was Thomasine Oliver [Class of 1969], and my junior year
and senior year was Cynthia Inman [Class of 1969]-well, it was Farrell at the
time, Cynthia Farrell.
HT: And did you enjoy having these roommates?
DM: Oh, yes. They were-And it's just like roommates. Every now and then we had a
little tiff, but it's like sisters.
HT: That's right.
DM: You have an argument and you get over it.
HT: Well, was it much of a transition for you from high school in southeastern
North Carolina to, sort of, an urban school like UNCG?
DM: No, it wasn't because I had gone to Bennett. My mom would-or my dad, one of
00:16:00the two, mostly my mom, I think-would bring me up on Saturday mornings, and I'd
be here all day. There were summer programs that my parents insisted that we
attend some sort of summer program. They gave us a choice: either you worked, or
you found a summer program to attend so-But my sisters and my brother and I,
too, used to attend things like the National Science Foundation Institute.
Bennett would have a summer program. I think I probably attended a Bennett
program, so in those programs you would have to live in the dorm for either six
weeks or four weeks. So we attended programs like that. My parents one summer
sent my-One of my older sisters and me to Cincinnati, and we took summer school
courses at a high school in Cincinnati with my aunt. So we would do things like
that so it wasn't that big a transition.
00:17:00
HT: Well, you said that biology was your favorite program when you were in high
school, and you sort of changed your mind, once you got here, to political science.
DM: Yes.
HT: How did you discover political science?
DM: Oh, you ask a good question there. I have not a clue. I don't know how I
discovered political science. I can only remember that my advisor was a
political science professor, and that was-I don't know whether she's still here
or not?-was Margaret Hunt [political science faculty].
HT: I've heard the name.
DM: Yes.
HT: Well, maybe she influenced you.
DM: I wish I could say I remember. I honestly do not, but that's altogether possible.
HT: So did you take a political science course in your freshman year, or was
that something you started in your sophomore? Do you recall?
DM: Oh, you test my memory.
00:18:00
HT: Somewhere along the way.
DM: I'm sure I may have. I just really don't remember.
HT: So that must have piqued your interest once you got into this particular field.
DM: Yes, I did because I graduated with a BA in political science, and then
after that law school.
HT: Well, that was a good course to take, it sounds like.
DM: Well, you know now that I have practiced for the number of years that I
have, I would-if I could step back with the knowledge I have now-I would not
have majored in political science, because I now conclude that the better path
if you wanted to go to law school would be courses in logic, or math, even music
because it teaches your brain to think in a different manner, and so I think
that's-and even the sciences, I think, would have been a good course of study if
00:19:00you wanted to go to law school. Now Alice said that when I walked into the room
that first day, I said I wanted to go to law school. I don't remember that, but
she says I did, and so I have no reason to doubt her. And so maybe that was the
path I was thinking about to begin with. I really don't know.
HT: We've already touched on this a little bit: living in the dorm. What was it
like, living in the dorm in the mid-1960s? This is in relationship to rules and
regulations and things like that.
DM: We had curfews. I guess I didn't find any problem with living in the dorms
during the '60s, as a matter of fact. I guess I'm conservative in the sense that
00:20:00I think rules are a good thing for youngsters, because I think sometimes when
you have a little too much freedom and you don't know how to control that, you
get out of control.
HT: Did you have rules and regulations at home?
DM: Oh, absolutely. No, you were not free to do what you wanted, when you
wanted, where you wanted. Not if you wanted to live to see the next day.
HT: And what about the dining hall food? What are your recollections of the
dining hall food?
DM: I just remember that the food in the dining hall was wonderful. It
was-Whoever was in the back cooking was doing a tremendous job.
HT: So you always got enough food.
DM: Always got enough food, and despite what people might say about
institutional food, the institutional food at the time that I was here was great.
00:21:00
HT: Now what about social activities? Did you participate in social activities
on campus, or did you have to go over to A&T to participate, or to Bennett to participate?
DM: We went over to A&T to participate in social activities. I mean there were
some things that I remember that-only one thing in particular. Dionne Warwick
used to come do a concert here every-annually-and I would go to that concert,
and there were one or two other things. Sometime the Neo-Black Society might
then have sponsored something. I probably attended that, but by and large, we
went over to A&T.
HT: Well, speaking of the Neo-Black Society, were you a founding member by any chance?
DM: No, I wasn't. I was here when it got started because it was in its infancy
at the time.
HT: Right, in '68, 1968.
DM: Yes, so I attended functions but in terms of any role; in terms of being an
officer, or anything: I don't recall that I did any of that, but-
00:22:00
HT: But you actually joined.
DM: Yes, I was a member, but not in any leadership capacity.
HT: Do you remember Betty Cheek [Class of 1968]?
DM: I do remember Betty and her sister-
HT: Yvonne [Cheek, Class of 1967].
DM: Yvonne, because they were upperclassmen at the time we were here. But I'm
sure I haven't seen either one of them since I was here.
HT: They both live in Minneapolis. I interviewed them about a year ago. And they
promised me-There's going to be a forty-fifth anniversary for the Neo-Black
Society celebration this fall, and they promised they would come back. Of course
this is all gearing up for the fiftieth anniversary which is coming up in about
five years, so anyway.
DM: That's very nice.
HT: Hopefully they will be able to make it, because they're still working
part-time, consulting and that sort of thing. Well, what about extra-curricular
00:23:00activities on campus: intramurals and-?
DM: I don't think I did-
HT: Sports and that sort of thing.
DM: No, I, you know, it was just class.
HT: Now did you work on campus by any chance?
DM: No, I did not have to work during the time I was an undergraduate. I was fortunate.
HT: Well, school is a fulltime job.
DM: Yes, it is, and I was fortunate enough that my parents could-And I'm sure
they struggled-but they could pay tuition and give me spending money.
HT: What do you recall about campus traditions such as Rat Day, Jacket Day, Ring Day-?
DM: I remember Jacket Day. As a matter of fact, I still have my jacket. I found
it in a closet.
HT: Is it still in good shape?
DM: Surprisingly, it was, and I had it cleaned just because I found it that day
so I could show it to my daughter. And I remember Rat Day, and I remember Ring Day.
00:24:00
HT: Do you recall any specific things about those days that stick in your mind?
DM: No just-The only ones, the only thing I really do remember is-and I'm not
sure with what precision-is Jacket Day because our jackets were navy blue and
others were camel and, I think, green, and I know there was another color.
HT: Red.
DM: Yes, okay.
HT: And it rotated every four years.
DM: Yes, that I remember, and there was a ceremony associated with Jacket Day,
but that's about all. Rat Day, I think, was just kind of fun.
HT: It was a hazing event. Incoming freshmen were required to put on a little
rat ears, and they had to obey any kind of rules sophomores would tell them. And
00:25:00they had something kind of like, Bow down to me. I understand if you met a male
professor on campus, you had to, sometimes, ask the male professor to marry you,
or something like that.
DM: And I remember some of the activities took place on the Quad, but that's
about all. It's been too many years.
HT: Now what about the Junior Show? Did you participate in that when you were a junior?
DM: I doubt it. At least if I did, I have no memory of it.
HT: And do you recall the Daisy Chain when you graduated, where they had two
lines of-I think they were juniors or sophomore-who would hold this huge chain
of daisies and ivy, and seniors would march through them in the commencement ceremony?
DM: I do not. I remember on graduation day, it was hot, and that George McGovern
was the speaker, and that's all I remember. I don't-You know, that was a haze. I
00:26:00got through that day, and then my-you know, my parents were there, and right
after graduation exercises, we left and went back home because I-That summer I
was going to a program at Wayne State University in Detroit that was recruiting
law students, and so I left. I went home that day, and I left shortly after that
to go to Wayne State, so that day was a haze.
HT: And you probably said, "Whew, I've finished all that."
DM: That's exactly-That was exactly what it was. That phase is over with; now on
to the next thing.
HT: Well, tell me about this program at Wayne State.
DM: That was called the CLEO program-
HT: How do you spell that?
DM: C-L-E O: It's an acronym for Council on Legal Education Opportunity. And I
00:27:00think that program still exists. It's to recruit minority students to go to law
school, and so we were-And Alice also. I went to Wayne State, and Alice went to
the University of Cincinnati in the same program, because these programs were
all over the country.
HT: And how did you find out about this?
DM: You know, a young man who was-had gone to Carolina, I think, talked to us
about going to law school, and attending the CLEO program, and I think that's
how I found out about it. He was an African American student at Carolina, and
maybe had finished Carolina, and maybe he had gone to the CLEO program.
HT: So he came to campus and spoke?
DM: I don't know whether he was at campus and spoke or whether he was a friend
00:28:00of some of the women on campus and he just happened to be talking about it. He
might have been from Durham, which is where Alice is from, and maybe he talked
to Alice about it, and the two of us-You know, I don't remember the particulars,
but I think that's how we found out about CLEO.
HT: When did you realize that you wanted to become a lawyer?
DM: Well, Alice said I said it my freshman year.
HT: But you didn't know about it.
DM: I didn't. I didn't know about it until I probably got close to my senior
year, and I didn't know whether I wanted to go immediately or not, but after
undergraduate school, I had done some interviewing, and I'd gotten a job offer
to work in New York. And I was going to be sharing an apartment with someone in
00:29:00Yonkers. And going to New York absolutely scared me to death, and when I got
accepted in the CLEO program, I said, "Well, that's it. I'm not going to Yonkers
because I'm going to the CLEO program."
HT: And was this CLEO program all summer long?
DM: Yes, it was six or eight weeks.
HT: And what did you learn there?
DM: It was kind of a precursor to law school, so you would take multiple
courses. You'd take exams, and so it was to kind of introduce you to what law
school would be all about; teach you study habits; how to brief a case; those
kind of things that you don't know until you walk through a law school door.
HT: And then I guess you decided, after taking this CLEO program, that you
wanted to go on to law school.
DM: I did, and I applied-I don't know how many law schools I applied to but I
00:30:00got a call from Peter Liacouras, who was a professor at Temple's law school, who
subsequently became dean of Temple Law School, and then the president of the
university, so Peter recruited me to go to Temple, as well as some other
students from CLEO programs, not the one that I attended but in other parts of
the country.
HT: So you went that fall.
DM: Yes, I went to Temple that fall. The spelling of his last name is L-I-A-C-O-U-R-A-S.
HT: Okay, thank you. And what was law school like for you?
DM: I hated law school. I think probably most people do. It was reading; it was
00:31:00analyzing; it consumed the entirety of your life, but you get through it, and so
if you're committed to it, it's like anything else. You don't have to love it;
you have to do it because that's your craft.
HT: And so you did that for three years. Is that correct?
DM: Yes.
HT: And then after you graduated, what was the next step for you?
DM: I started-Well, I took the bar exam in Pennsylvania, and I took a bar review
course before that. And I finished the bar exam on a Thursday, and I started
working for the National Labor Relations Board on that Monday. And I started
there as a field attorney.
00:32:00
HT: In Philadelphia.
DM: In Philadelphia.
HT: So you never had any desire to come back to North Carolina to practice?
DM: No, but I still might do that, because I've now retired. I worked for the
National Labor Relations Board a total of forty and one half years. And the last
fifteen years, I was the regional director for the Philadelphia office of the
National Labor Relations Board, and we covered eastern Pennsylvania, southern
New Jersey, and northern Delaware. That was the geographic area covered by the
Philadelphia regional office. It is, in this eastern megalopolis, one of the
more important offices on the East Coast. You've got difficult cases, big cases,
00:33:00and so it was what I called a labor of love, and I loved working for the
National Labor Relations Board.
HT: Now is that a governmental agency, or-
DM: It's a Federal agency;
HT: A Federal agency, okay.
DM: It regulates relationships between unions, employers, and employees, and
administers one statute: the National Labor Relations Act. I don't want to do
too much philosophizing but it gives employees the right to join unions and
organize on behalf of unions or to refrain doing that, or to engage in
activities for mutual aid and protection, and a lot of employees don't know they
have the rights to do that, and so this statute protects employees' rights to
engage in that activity. Employers have rights and unions have rights, and so my
00:34:00job as regional director was to head that office. We ranged from seventy to
fifty attorneys and field examiners. Our field examiners were not attorneys who
did the same kind of work that our attorneys did, except the formal legal work,
so it was to manage and run that office, and make decisions as to whether people
committed unfair labor practices or not, and to conduct elections to determine
whether employees wanted to have union representation.
HT: So did you appear in court or did you work behind the scenes?
DM: Well, I did both. When I started, I did investigations and litigation; and
when I ended, I headed the office.
00:35:00
HT: So you had quite a few people working for you; you supervised quite a few?
DM: Yes, we had a staff of seventy-It had ranged from seventy to fifty. In times
of budgetary difficulty or if the case intake dropped, then we'd usually lose
people by attrition. Sometimes people just took jobs in the private sector.
HT: You never thought about starting your own law firm?
DM: Nobody ever made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I just-I happened to have
liked being a neutral, and that's what the National Labor Relations Board was;
it's a neutral agency.
HT: Well, if we can backtrack to UNCG for just a minute: I think we've already
touched on this a little bit, but when you came in the mid-sixties, there were
very few men on campus. Do you have a recollections specifically about some of
the African American men on campus? We've already mentioned their names, but did
you ever have any classes with them or-?
00:36:00
DM: I don't think so. I don't think any of them were political science majors,
and I don't think-Well, I think Charles might have been in my class. I think
Larry was ahead of me, and you mentioned-whether it was Jon or Reginald-I don't
remember whether he was in the class of '69 or before or after.
HT: I can't remember either. He's either '69 or '70.
DM: I don't remember having any class with either of those.
HT: Well, what was the political life or political atmosphere like on campus in
the sixties? Do you have any recollection of that?
DM: I really don't. I must confess, when I came to UNCG, I was seventeen years
old, and through the eyes of a seventeen-year-old-which means I finished here
00:37:00when I was, I had just probably turned-I turned seventeen just before I came, so
by the time I left, I had just-would turn twenty-one that summer-so during that
seventeen to twenty, twenty-one period, I think your vision is not particularly astute.
HT: In the time that you were here, so many of the things like the Greensboro
Sit-ins had already taken place in 1960. There were some protests on Tate Street
in '63 to integrate the theater over there and the shops and that sort of thing,
so you missed all that. And then was an ARA strike on campus. Do you have any
recollection of that? That was in '69, and I can't remember if that was-It might
have been after you left, because I can't remember what time of the year that happened.
DM: I don't remember a strike when I was here. Only-On campus. I do remember a
strike at Gilbarco, and there was a trash strike-trash haulers strike-in
00:38:00Greensboro. That's the first time I had ever heard anything about unions, and
that's-Maybe that might have piqued my interest in unionization when I went to
law school, other than taking a course. There were some riots when Dr. King was
killed, and we got calls-At least some of us got calls, and I don't remember
whether I specifically or word just spread around campus-from A&T saying, "You
guys get out of there because we're coming over that way next." But the
university, because of the riots, I think, shut down and told everybody to go
home, if I remember correctly.
HT: That sounds about right. Of course that happened in '68, and there were so
many assassinations during the sixties, starting with President John F. Kennedy.
It just seemed like it never ended. Do you have any recollections of that series
00:39:00of assassinations, and all the turmoil that was going on in the sixties?
DM: Just the-at least on campus-just the King assassination on campus. I
remember when Kennedy was assassinated. It was before I came.
HT: You were still in high school.
DM: I was still in high school at the time. I, you know, now in hindsight, I do
know. But I perceived McGovern as a pacifist, but I really don't remember the
content of his speech for graduation. So in terms of the political atmosphere,
I, other than just very much generalizations, I can't give you anything specific.
HT: Well, we've already talked about the Neo-Black Society which was founded in
'68, about the time you were getting ready to leave, really. You graduated just
00:40:00a few-Do you have any specific recollections about the Neo-Black Society: what
they were involved in, what they were trying to do at that time when they were
getting started?
DM: No, other than just as a general matter. It was kind of a camaraderie and a
kind of safe place for African American students to promote. I hate to say our
general welfare, because there was an air of discrimination, and there's
nothing specific that I can tell you about except black students were not wanted
on campus, and there were-Some people, I don't' know that anything specifically
happened to me, but for others it was made-It was made very clear sometimes by
professors, sometime by other students, that you were not welcome.
HT: But you never had anything specifically aimed toward you?
00:41:00
DM: Other than this one class that I had where, as I said, a professor made some
remark that was denigrating African Americans, and a white student in class
spoke up and said, "You know that's not right," and whoever she was, looked at
me and said, "Hey, help me out here. You know what he's saying isn't right," and
that's where my memory shuts down. I don't remember what happened after that.
That's the one specific that I can tell you about, but it was a generalized
atmosphere of not wanting African American students here.
HT: Do you recall Ada Fisher, Class of '70, by any chance? Dr. Ada Fisher.
DM: Vaguely, yes, I do.
HT: Because she was a real leader, and I think she talked to the Chancellor
Ferguson about some situations on campus, and I think they worked some things
out, so-She was a very active-a true activist on campus.
00:42:00
DM: You know, I can't dispute it. You know what: it's been forty-some years.
HT: If you were asking me these questions, I'd say, "What."
DM: Well, and that's why I tell you, sometimes I don't have and over the course
of the years you learn not to misstate, and if your memory is vague, it is what
it is. And as I mature, it gets vaguer and vaguer.
HT: Well, I just mentioned Chancellor Ferguson who was the chancellor while you
were here. Do you have any recollection of him; every meeting him.
DM: I would see him around campus, but no.
HT: What about Vice Chancellor Mereb Mossman, or any of the other administrators?
DM: Oh, gee, I remember the name, but-
HT: There's actually a building on campus named in her honor.
DM: Yes, but in terms of meeting her, you know what, I really don't have any
recollection of that.
00:43:00
HT: And there was a very famous dean of students. Her name was Katherine Taylor
who was actually a graduate of the school.
DM: I remember the name, yes, but that's about it.
HT: Well, can you tell me anything about some of your professors that you can
recall? Do you have any specific memories of any of your professors?
DM: Other than Dr. Hunt, that's the only one I can really recall. And I did have
a professor, a male professor, who was a retired attorney, and he taught, I
think maybe, a history course or political science course, but I don't recall
his name. But those are the only two that I can recall. And I guess I was
impressed by the fact that he was a retired attorney, and that he was now
teaching in undergraduate school. I kind of-It was a disconnect. I couldn't
figure it out why, but, you know, I don't think I ever asked the question. I now
00:44:00see that lawyers do all kinds of things, so-
HT: Well, after you graduated, I know you went on to law school, and you worked
for the National Labor Relations Board for all these years. You say you just
retired recently.
DM: Yes.
HT: What are your future plans?
DM: I don't know. I have just finished my last commitment about three weeks ago,
and so now I think I have some time to kind of reflect and figure it out. I
might do some arbitrations; I might do some mediations. I got a-I plan to get
admitted to the North Carolina bar because my family still owns a lot of real
estate here, and I thought that I should probably do that. I'd like to probably
travel some, but I will find something to do because I don't want to do
absolutely nothing; at least, not right now.
HT: That sort of makes sense.
DM: And I still-I teach a course in collective bargaining at Temple Law School,
00:45:00and I will do that again the spring semester, and so maybe I will do some more
teaching. I'm not quite sure yet.
HT: So you think you'll stick around in the Philadelphia area?
DM: That will always be my home base, but I will always come to North Carolina.
You know, this is my roots, and it's also where I get rejuvenated, so I will
always come back.
HT: Well, have you been involved with UNCG since you graduated?
DM: This is-Well, my daughter applied for admission here, and was accepted, but
she decided not to come. And so I came back just that one time to bring her here
when we were doing kind of a college tour. I think we probably stopped at every
college and university between Pennsylvania and North Carolina for her to take a
00:46:00look at to see whether she wanted to apply, and other that one occasion, this is
the first time I have been back on campus since that.
HT: Quite a few changes have occurred.
DM: It's extraordinary.
HT: Well, what do you want people to know about your time at UNCG?
DM: I don't know who to attribute the quote to: "If it doesn't kill you, it will
make you stronger." I didn't kill me; it made me able to survive anything. I
have made some lifelong friends here, and it has made me strong. In the labor
relations field, it's a contentious field, and with decisions that I made as
00:47:00director of the Philadelphia office, somebody was always unhappy with that
decision. If they won, they were happy. If they lost, they were unhappy and so
it taught me an inner strength and a survival that I don't know that you learn
in other ways. And so the strength that I learned-because you have to depend on
yourself-and the friends that I made-to learn how to lean on them when I needed
it, and that they were there-have been the two things that I guess I take away
00:48:00from here. I would hope that other people who attend, not only this university,
but any university, would make the kind of friends that I made.
HT: So it sounds like it had quite an impact on you.
DM: Oh, it did. It did.
HT: Well, I don't have any more formal questions for you. Do you have anything
that you would like to add that we haven't covered this afternoon?
DM: No.
HT: Okay, thank you so much.
DM: You're quite welcome.
HT: I really appreciate you coming all the way from Philadelphia on a rainy day.