Oral history interview with Esther M. Shelton, 2015

LW: My name is Lisa Withers and today is Sunday, July 26, 2015. I am in the home of Ms. Esther M. Shelton, Class of 1973, to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG [The University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Greensboro, North Carolina] African American Institutional Memory Project. Thank you, Ms. Shelton, for participating in this project and for sharing with me your experiences today. I'd like to start the interview by asking about your childhood. If you would be willing to share with me when and where you were born?

ES: I was born in 1951 in Durham County, North Carolina. I grew up a rural community. The town is Rougemont, North Carolina. R-o-u-g-e-m-o-n-t.

LW: And that's a new one on me. I have not heard of Rougemont.

ES: Yes.

LW: Okay. So, would you mind sharing a little bit about your family?

ES: My--I grew up in--and I hesitate to describe it because it wasn't this way. Single parent household for a number of years. Early on, because we lived so far out, this was remember, back in the 50s. So, mass transportation was a tough thing and not everybody had vehicles. So, my mother actually worked in Durham and, you know, she didn't drive for a number of years. So, she depended on other people for transportation. So, some of the time, I lived with my great-grandmother. And, that was a large household with my great-grandmother, 00:02:00her sister, my uncle's family, and I think there were ten or eleven of them, mostly boys, so. And their primary, and we just lived across the street from each other, so it was like, you know, I just walked over. I had a place there to sleep as well as at home. But, their primary source of income was farming although my uncle also worked in Durham as well.

LW: Okay.

ES: So.

LW: So, what was it like growing up in the 1950s and into the '60s?

ES: I mean I was just a kid out in rural North Carolina who played, you know, out on the farm, tobacco fields, you know. Played with the other kids. Not traveling around much. Radio was a big thing.

LW: What were some of the popular shows that would come on the radio?

ES: Well, not so much of that. It was the music, and I do remember the one thing that got everybody's attention was they liked the fights. And so, they would broadcast the boxing matches, yes. And so with that, you know, we would sit around and I remember when we got--I don't remember the year we got a TV, but I remember by the time I started elementary school, we had a TV. You know, one 00:04:00of the--my favorite shows was Diver Dan and looking back on that, that was just one of the stupidest things [chuckles]. It was just this, sort of, animated little thing, but Diver Dan was one of the shows and, you know, you look forward to coming back. But, you know, TV wasn't the big thing back then that it is now.

LW: Okay.

ES: There was one TV. It was black and white, you know.

LW: [Chuckles].

ES: So. But, yes. But, you know, not a lot of--I mean, you learned to play outside. Or, I say learned, that was the only way to play, you know. Baseball, that was probably, you had to buy a ball. But, we did do this really silly thing 00:05:00because we farmed. We could also make balls out of twine and, you know, I mean you look at me like that but that was like, yes, so. Everybody did that you know, no big thing. But that's the kind of thing you did. You just, figured out what you had. No one had a sense of poverty, you know, because we could always buy groceries plus, you know, things that were grown as well. And raised, you know, chicken, hogs, you know, had a couple of horses, and so. That was, you know, everything was fine. You know. Nobody wanted for anything or knew to want for anything, you know. So, it was good.

LW: Yes, well could you share with me where you went to school growing up?

ES: Right, so I went to the same school from the first grade through the twelfth grade, right. Went to Little River School and I did not go to kindergarten because we did not have one at the time there. So, you just went to first grade. No Head Start, you know, at the time either. And, I was in the last graduating class of that school because integration forced the closing of the high school and it merged into the high school down the road, yes.

LW: Okay, well I would like to ask, so before integration--.

ES: Yes.

LW: What was, what was it like to be in class at Little River? What was that 00:07:00going to school experience? How would you describe it?

ES: Like being with your family. You know, you grew up with everybody. You went to church with them. And you have to understand, like, I mean you knew everybody. I mean, even to this day, you know, people have, you know, younger than me moved away and they come back, they may recognize me. I mean, because it was really like a family school and the teachers knew everybody and they were like an extension of your parents and they basically could say to you, "Look, we know your parents don't have time to deal with your misbehavior" or "you're not doing your work." So, you know, and you know, you just understood that. I'm in trouble starting here [chuckle] you know, so, I mean. It's hard for me to compare it to what kids experience today because it's so different. I mean in 00:08:00some ways if you want to compare now, and it may have been more like a private school than--simply because you knew everybody. Everybody seemed to have invested interest in you, you know, and my graduating class, there were eighteen of us.

LW: Just eighteen?

ES: I think there were just eighteen of us in my graduating class.

LW: Wow, that's small.

ES: Yes, that's why I seriously, you know.

LW: Very different when you have classes even from two hundred to five hundred students.

ES: Right.

LW: Wow.

ES: Right.

LW: Okay, and so you were mentioning the school closed when they were, I'm 00:09:00assuming the county was forced to integrate?

ES: Right.

LW: So, could you--.

ES: Integration became a big thing, and so, yes.

LW: Could you share with me what that process looked like in your area or what happened?

ES: Well, actually they had started to do some integration before that year and students were able to elect to go.

LW: Okay.

ES: To the other high school.

LW: Okay.

ES: And--that opportunity wasn't actually given to my class. But it was given to the classes before us and they also had--I can't remember. It's been a long time ago now. I do remember that they integrated some of the elementary school 00:10:00faculty early on. And, then they offered that opportunity and just a couple of students switched schools. I mean they knew it was coming, so, they decided to go ahead and do that, bu I remember it must have been disturbing for someone because we, we came to school one day after the weekend and they burned, someone had burned a cross in the school yard out in front of the school. Yes.

LW: In front of Little River?

ES: Yes, yes. So, that was, you know, like a message, "We're not happy, you know, about this." Well, we weren't happy either, so, you know. But anyway, that was what it was like, but, you know, I grew up in a time where the message from the adults was you go along and get along and don't start anything. Don't go get in trouble. You know, so that was really pretty clear.

LW: Okay.

ES: So, we really, we were not radicals.

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: We were not radicals at all. Wouldn't have been tolerated, so.

LW: Okay, okay. If, you wouldn't mind me asking, what was the school that was integrated into down the road?

ES: Northern High School.

LW: Northern? Okay, high school.

[Dog panting, door opens to let dog outside, and door closes]

LW: And so I was wondering if you willing to share with me what were some of your favorite subjects that you remember enjoying while you were in school?

ES: Oh, in elementary and high school?

LW: Yes.

ES: Oh, math and science.

LW: Math and science.

ES: Oh yes.

LW: Okay. Were there really good teachers you had for those subjects or anything about the material--.

ES: I had good teachers.

LW: That you liked?

ES: I just liked math and science more than English. I didn't really care about diagramming sentences or reading the stories, you know. But I liked the processes. And math and science seemed to be easier for me. So, I liked, I liked that best.

LW: Okay. So how did you come to UNCG? What was that--how did it come that you would eventually attend the university?

ES: As an option? Well, okay. I graduated second in my class, which was not a big deal. There were eighteen of us.

LW: Gotcha.

ES: Okay [chuckles] and my SAT [Scholastic Aptitude Test] scores weren't bad given that, you know. And so my choices were UNCG--I initially wanted to be a 00:13:00physical therapist, and so, then UNCG was an option because when I applied to, I actually applied to Carolina [The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, North Carolina] to get into the school of physical therapy, not to go into the general, you know, education track. But, you were actually admitted into the school of physical therapy as a freshman. So, I applied to Carolina and UNCG thinking that I would transfer to Carolina. But, I really wanted to go to [The] Ohio State [University, Columbus, Ohio] and was accepted at Ohio State.

LW: Okay.

ES: But, my mom sad, "That's too far." Too far, can't put my hands on you in a day. And she didn't really, you know, she drove some but that would have been a stretch. And so, I was waitlisted to the School of Physical Therapy. I was like second or third on the list and I was ready to be done with all that so there was a program, and I don't remember what it was called back then, but we--the person that was first in our senior class and I both had applied to UNCG. And so we went up and spent the night, you know, walked around the campus. And I went, "Oh, this looks pretty good." So, UNCG was, you know, where I was going to go, so.

LW: Because they had the program that you were looking for.

ES: They--I could do the preliminary work and then transfer.

LW: Transfers. Okay. So, what was the reaction of your family and friends at your decision to go the UNCG?

ES: That was fine. They were happy with that, you know.

LW: Okay, okay.

ES: And I just remember my uncle saying, "Don't go up there and get into any trouble." Okay.

LW: [Chuckles] So do you recall your first days on campus?

ES: Sort of, you know. My roommate for the first two years was the person that 00:16:00was the valedictorian and we grew up together. We'd known each other from first through twelfth grade, I mean, it was no big deal, you know, so.

LW: Okay.

ES: So we had each other. And it was a matter of getting to know other students. That was the first time I had lived in close proximity to people who were not African American, you know. And so, that was still during a time when racial tensions were heightened shall we say. So, that was kind of tough. You know, trying to figure out what was okay and what was not okay. And, at the time, I had a part-time job back here.

LW: In Durham County?

ES: In Chapel Hill.

LW: Oh, in Chapel Hill, okay.

ES: Right, and so, I just--most of my time at UNCG, I didn't spend a lot of weekends there because I worked on the weekends. I came back here. So, it was like I'd be in and out of that life, you know. I came here, I worked, and then I went back so.

LW: Okay, so how would you describe your transition from high school to college at UNCG. How would you describe that process?

ES: It was difficult.

LW: Okay.

ES: You mean in terms of the class material and just all of that?

LW: All of that. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing about that process.

ES: Well, it was difficult. First of all, I was in a classroom where everybody 00:18:00was really, should have been able to perform at the same level. I mean, hence the selection process, you know, for being there. But, I think I was distracted a lot by just this whole difference, you know, of the lecturing process. I mean that whole classroom lecturing. I can't remember the guy's name that was my history professor. I mean but I saw more of his back than his face because he'd be--he'd talk a little bit then he turned, you know. So, the whole idea of 00:19:00learning to study, take notes, prep for tests, I was a fish out of water. Right, because I didn't have to do all of that when I was in high school, you know. I could just sit, listen. The only class that I would really took notes were the science and math classes, you know, and then I knew, you know, the kind of stuff, you know, but you know, history, French, you know. I liked my French class. She was, I don't remember her name either. I remember her face but not her name, but she was quite expressive, you know, with the language and she would speak to us in French and, you know, I actually felt like I got, you know, something out of that. That I enjoyed but English, history, even the classes I 00:20:00thought would be better, the whole delivery method was difficult.

LW: So, just the traditional, the professor might say a few words, then turn around, write on the chalkboard.

ES: Yes.

LW: And then turn back for the duration of the class.

ES: Yes.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes, not as interactive as it had been in high school, you know, so. And the art of studying was not a tool in my bag, you know, so, anyway. So there.

LW: Okay.

ES: So, it was difficult.

LW: Yes.

ES: And I was gone on the weekends, you know, so.

LW: Okay. So, what did you end up choosing as your major?

ES: Well that evolved over time and finally I became a psychology major.

LW: Okay. Well what led to that decision? Was there anything like, there was 00:21:00class you took and it, you loved it?

ES: I just thought it was more suited me and what I wanted to do.

LW: Okay.

ES: And probably in hindsight, well, definitely in hindsight, the program at UNCG was not really geared to what I thought that I wanted to do at the time.

LW: The psychology program?

ES: Right. Yes.

LW: Okay, so are there any professors that you really do remember or that stand out to you when you think about your time at UNCG or classes that really stand out in your mind as memorable classes or professors?

ES: I can't. It's been over forty years. I can't remember.

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: I had this one summer I took a math class and we didn't use a book. It was really cool.

LW: Like at all during the while class?

ES: The idea was that we had to define everything and then based on the definitions, you know, then we could solve the problems. And, he actually, oh gosh, I can't remember much about him but it was really an awesome class. I did extremely well. Because it was interactive.

LW: Okay, I see.

ES: Yes, it wasn't [mimics talking sounds]. It was really interactive. You were thinking as you were working through it. You know so, yes. So that was really cool. I'm trying to think. I'm just totally drawing a blank. Liked the French teacher.

LW: It's okay.

ES: It was a long time ago.

LW: [Chuckles] It's alright. It's one of the questions we always like to ask and there is another variation of, more in general. How would you describe the interactions between students and faculty, students with other students in the classroom, or even students with the university administration at the time you were at UNCG?

ES: So, by the time I was at UNCG it was later sixties, right.

LW: Okay.

ES: And those were turbulent times in many places. My freshman year at UNCG was the year that Kent State [University, Kent, Ohio] exploded.

LW: Okay.

ES: And there had been those shootings on campus. So--.

LW: At Kent State.

ES: Yes, and the year before in Greensboro, at A&T [North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University, Greensboro, North Carolina] there had been a shooting on campus. And we were, probably a week or so, before finals and I 00:24:00remember across town the schools had made a decision to close early before finals.

LW: In Greensboro?

ES: Right.

LW: Okay.

ES: And so, all of the schools, they were just really nervous because of what had happened. And so they instituted pass/fail because it hadn't existed before. They instituted pass/fail and finals were done over a couple of days. Based on what had been taught, boom, boom, boom and schools were shut down. Everybody went home. I remember that, yes.

LW: So this was after the shooting at A&T?

ES: The following year. But the precipitating factor was Kent State.

LW: Gotcha.

ES: And so they shut all schools down. All the colleges were just shut down, yes.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes.

LW: So, how did you--do think that it had an after effect in the following school year as far as the relationships with students with other students, faculty, administration, or did these kind of change as more time passed?

ES: I--you know, when you say students, what do you mean? Do you mean African American students? Do you mean student body as a whole? What are you thinking when you ask that question?

LW: A lot times I think it's generally interpreted to be, you know, the African 00:26:00American and the white students being that we have so few African American students who were there, but it doesn't have to be that. It can be, you know, with the student body or any--whatever was your perception or memories so how the different students interacted with each other and with other elements of the campus community.

ES: Well, so, I remember getting--this memory just flashed to me. I remember getting to campus and I saw pockets of African American students, you know, just in little groups. And they were clearly upperclassmen who had been there. Afros, like, huge, you know, Afros. And so, coming from rural North Carolina, I think, "Oh boy, they're militant and I've been told to stay away." Okay, so, I didn't get to know--and I was fairly shy at the time as well. I didn't mingle a lot with other people. I started slowly getting to know people in my dorm. I clearly did 00:27:00not have close friends at the time, you know, other than the person that was, you know, my roommate and she was very much more outgoing that me. And so, she really got to know a lot of other people. Relationships with professors? I didn't even know how that was done. You know, so, that's--I'm in a very different place today than I was then in terms of knowing, you know--what do you mean relationships with professors, administration, you know. Now, you know, I was just shy, you know.

LW: It is interesting because we're finding out that students didn't have a lot of interaction with administration [chuckles].

ES: Well, you know, what were you supposed to do with them? I mean I don't think that's what people felt, you know. We're in this place, we're here, we came to get this education, you know, you know.

LW: I understand.

ES: Yes.

LW: I understand. It's just something I always ask, trying to get a better understanding of what the campus dynamic, campus community was like at the time.

ES: Yes, yes.

LW: Alright, so I know you mentioned that you went away on weekends a lot so you weren't there--.

ES: Yes, I was working.

LW: When you were on campus during the week, were you able to be involved in other campus activities at the time or was it time mostly dictated by studying and academics?

ES: I got another job working at the Student Union [Elliott Hall now Elliott 00:29:00University Center] so I worked at the Student Union--.

LW: Okay.

ES: For two or three years.

LW: And was it in Elliott Hall?

ES: Yes, different from what it is today, yes, yes.

LW: Okay, so what kind of things were you doing at the--on your job at the Student Union?

ES: You know, you'd check people into the listening rooms and sometimes I'd work down at the pool area. Yes, or, you know, if there was an event, go unlock one of the, you know, conference rooms that they had.

LW: Okay.

ES: That kind of thing. Basically, manning the desk there, yes.

LW: Okay, so you did that. Were there other things that come to your mind about, were you able to do outside of class?

ES: I didn't really do anything else outside of class.

LW: [Chuckles].

ES: No, no.

LW: Okay.

ES: I didn't join any organizations or do anything.

LW: Okay. Not even the Neo-Black Society? We always ask about that one.

ES: Okay, so I was told when I left home don't get involved in these things.

LW: [Laughter] Okay.

ES: Don't get involved. Now, by the time my senior year had come around, it was quite clear to me that the Neo-Black Society wasn't a militant organization that anybody should be afraid of, but, you know, but, you know, yes.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes.

LW: And so you mentioned you lived with a friend from home the first two years. Do you remember the name of the dorm you were in those first two years?

ES: I was in Mary Foust [Residence Hall].

LW: Okay.

ES: And we were in Phillips-Hawkins [Residence Hall].

LW: Okay.

ES: For the duration.

LW: That's another popular dorm I hear a lot. So, do you remember what dorm life was like when you were at UNCG? Or what was it like being in the dorms at 00:31:00the time? What kind of things did you have in your rooms or what were some of the things that you would do while you were hanging out in the dorms?

ES: Well, at Phillips-Hawkins, they would have like parties like, you know.

LW: Okay.

ES: It was the male dorm on one side and, you know, women on the other so, downstairs we had beer blasts. Yes, we ordered some kegs of beer and it was loud.

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: And so we had music and, you know, that was fun. And, would hang out some with the other, you know, African American students when I was around.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes, so. You know, you date a little bit. Go out and get something to eat.

LW: Well, that is one of our questions is what was the dining hall like?

ES: Lousy.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: Lousy, it was terrible.

LW: It was terrible?

ES: It was terrible food, it was.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: It was terrible food. If you had to, you ate there, but, I mean, it was the only option you had.

LW: They didn't, I guess, was Tate Street not something that was popular, another popular option to go to?

ES: Well, you could go to Tate Street but you had to have money to go to Tate Street.

LW: That's true.

ES: See, you went to Tate Street when you got your allowance, see, and, you 00:33:00know, I worked to have some money but, you know, like the first year, it was a big deal. I might get five or ten bucks in the mail. That was huge. That's huge.

LW: Okay.

ES: You know. And my mom couldn't afford to send me money so I wanted clothes, books, I had to make a way. And that was cool, you know, but, yes, you couldn't just go hang out on Tate Street.

LW: So it was the dining hall with its lousy food?

ES: Yes, it sucked.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: It was bad. Nobody thought it was really great. I mean it was adequate.

LW: Yes.

ES: You know. It was like hospital food. Would you say hospital food was outstanding? See, like that, it was yuck.

LW: Okay, okay, so on the times that you were on campus, do you remember any 00:34:00campus traditions that they may have still have had or they did at that time?

ES: Yes.

LW: Okay, what were some of those traditions?

ES: Oh, what was that thing called? Oh, they raided--what was it called? They came in the middle of the night, the upper class women. What was it called? Mouse? Getting everybody up in the middle of the night. It was sort of a--I can't remember what it was called. But it was like one of the traditions then.

LW: Okay, could you describe what happened?

ES: The upper class women came in and started--like a sorority would do. You 00:35:00know, banging on the doors, making people get up in the middle of the night and you had to get up and go outside, you know, I don't even remember how much else happened after that but it didn't mean that you really belonged to anything after that point but it was just like razzing the freshman, you know.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: So, you know, it was like one of the things that happened. And they would, I liked that they brought, I remember seeing the 5th Dimension on campus.

LW: Okay, the 5th Dimension.

ES: So, they would do that. I also remember that they bused, this was during the first month or two on campus. They didn't want us to go home for the first two or three--or was it six weeks? I can't remember. But anyway, trying to get you over being homesick. And, then they bused--I don't know how many of us, Trailways, Greyhound, whatever it was, to Carolina for a mixer.

LW: Okay.

ES: And so, I had several friends here.

LW: Okay.

ES: And so I was able to meet up with them and we hung out and had a good time. So, they did that.

LW: Okay.

ES: There was not much done with the schools that were in Greensboro. And I understand that today, there were like buses where you can hop on a bus on campus and go, you know, to A&T or go to Guilford College go to the mall, you know, that was not possible. No, you had to know somebody with a car. Or catch a bus, you know, so, yes.

LW: Okay, so when you were in school, there wasn't a lot of intermingling, especially with the African American students--because I know A&T is on the other side of town and you had Bennett [College, Greensboro, North Carolina], and you even mentioned Guilford College and I didn't even realize there were a few but not many but, you didn't experience a lot of students or see a lot of students intermingling with those other campuses?

ES: No, now the guys would come on campus, you know.

LW: Okay.

ES: You know, the guys would come on but whenever the freshman showed up. The guys would come, and you know, A&T guys were plentiful, you know, on campus at the time so.

LW: Okay.

ES: You know, and then some of the neighborhood guys would come and, you know, yes, so, yes.

LW: Okay.

ES: So, you know, there were dating opportunities or whatever. So, yes, basketball team was--mostly intramural. I don't even know if they played other schools at the time. I don't remember going to a basketball game. So, sports--.

LW: Yes.

ES: So, nothing there. But I didn't go to A&T's basketball games either, so.

LW: Okay.

ES: I mean when I was there, I mostly stayed on campus, mostly in little, small groups, you know. I didn't venture out to join anything.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes.

LW: Yes, and so--in your small groups, did y'all just hang out and just--?

ES: Yes, talk.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes.

LW: Play cards?

ES: I didn't.

LW: Okay, I didn't--a lot of people talk about playing Bid Whist and Pinochle.

ES: Yes.

LW: So I didn't know if that anything your group did?

ES: No, no, no, no. I didn't, no we talked.

LW: Okay.

ES: Every now and then, we would experiment with drinking because most of us didn't drink prior to coming, you know.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: Yes, so.

LW: Okay.

ES: But we might, you know, go to a movie or something if somebody had enough money or the bigger thing was put the money together and let's go out, you know, go somewhere and get something to eat.

LW: [Laughter]

ES: Off campus, yes.

LW: So when you were able to go and get something to eat, what were some of the restaurants that you would go to? Were there any that you remember?

ES: I was trying to remember? I don't even remember those things. There used to be Joker's, which was on the edge of campus.

LW: That's new.

ES: Did you know where--what is it now? So, what's the street that runs right through where the Yum-Yum's sits now?

LW: Spring Garden.

ES: Right, so, Spring Garden and Tate, there's a little building--is that the police station up on the corner now? Isn't that what?

LW: Yes, yes, yes. There was one.

ES: So, right in that lot, there used to be this, for lack of anything better to call it, a burger joint that was like awesome. And, I guess the university bought it, the property up and it closed them down. But that was like one the 00:40:00big places. And I dated a guy that actually worked there and so I could get food for a while while we I dated. So, that was okay.

LW: And it was called Joker's?

ES: Yes.

LW: Okay.

ES: Yes. And of course, there was always Yum-Yum's.

LW: Yes.

ES: Always Yum-Yum's.

LW: It's a legend.

ES: Yes, whenever I'm up that way and it's daytime and I think they're open, I got to go to Yum-Yum's, yes. Oh yes. Now you--I don't know if I told you this, but, so I graduated in '73, but I went back to UNCG.

LW: Okay, yes, that's one of the--next section I was getting into was what did you do after you graduated?

ES: Yes, I graduated and I said, "I am done with school."

LW: Yes.

ES: And about a year later, I went, "Not so much."

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: I started thinking about it and I went, "I don't want to do this for the rest of my life." So, I--when I left UNCG, I had a bachelor's in Psychology. I worked, I don't remember how many months but, maybe two or three months for the telephone company as an operator and I, you know, applied for a job as a social worker, which is what I really wanted to do. And was hired and worked--how many years did I work there? I forget now. But I was a social worker in Roxboro 00:42:00[North Carolina]. I can't remember now but in total--and then I transferred from Roxboro, because I was doing adult services in Roxboro, and I transferred to Orange County [North Carolina] here and up in Hillsborough [North Carolina] I went from doing adult services in Person County [North Carolina] to adult services in Orange County then subsequently transferred within the department to children's services. So, I was a social worker for thirteen years between the two. And became clear to me that life wasn't going to be quite what I wanted it to be if I remained as a social worker for the rest of my life. I went, "No, I can't do this." And so I actually went back to UNCG and got my MBA [Master's in 00:43:00Business Administration] in 1987 I think it was, when I finished the program but I was still working full-time.

LW: Okay.

ES: Except for the last year. I just said, "I'm ready to be done with all of this." I took a year off and I finished all of the course work. Got my MBA and I was also taking enough accounting classes and so I was able to sit for the CPA [Certified Public Accountant] exam and now I'm a CPA. Yes, so.

LW: Okay, so when you made your decision to go back to get your MBA, was UNCG your first choice for their program or were there other schools you were considering?

ES: Because they had an evening program.

LW: Okay.

ES: And it worked for me, absolutely. And you have to understand I had also 00:44:00developed a love for UNCG. Yes. So, at first it was, "Yes, this works, okay, yes, it's a good school. It's a good school." But I have a love for UNCG now. Oh yes.

LW: Okay. Well, that's one of the questions I was going to ask if you had an opportunity to be involved with UNCG since you graduated.

ES: Right, yes, so, yes, I got my MBA from UNCG.

LW: Okay. And so were there other opportunities to come back to alumni reunions or been involved in any other capacity with the university?

ES: No.

LW: Okay.

ES: But I always drive through, you know.

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: I also, back in '90, in the early '90s, my job gave me the opportunity to serve as a college professor. And so I taught for two years full time at A&T.

LW: Okay.

ES: In the Accounting Department. So that was kind of cool.

LW: Yes.

ES: Yes, but, you know, because at one point I actually considered getting a doctorate and I went, "What do you do with a doctorate in accounting? What do you do with that?" You know, so, teach really. That's about it. You know, so I decided against that and, but, you know, because at one point I was thinking, "Wow I wonder about teaching at, you know," and while I was on faculty, well adjunct faculty, at A&T, you learn more about how it all works and I went, "Ah, no. Not for me." You know. But, so I got a flavor what it might be and then I 00:46:00had an acquaintance that was on faculty at UNCG and learned a little bit about, you know, that and I went, "No." But I love the school.

LW: Yes.

ES: Yes. Love the school.

LW: Well, you've shared a lot with me about your experiences. I learned about a new establishment and things at UNCG. So I just wanted to ask, you know, for any student who, you know, might hear about your experiences. What is a take away or what's something that you really want people to understand about your experience there, or what would be the take away about your experiences at UNCG?

ES: Take away. I think looking back, I did not immerse myself as I should have 00:47:00in the UNCG community.

LW: Okay.

ES: I think it is an outstanding school. I developed some teacher-student relationships in courses that I took later and in each and every case I found the faculty so approachable and I think in part that was in part they recognized, you know, I really was there to get something, not be just given something, but we actually had an exchange. And I just, just several classes I took. And I really felt good. I felt like, you know, at exam time, I was ready. 00:48:00Because I had taken advantage of those relationships, you know. I would just say any college student, especially undergraduate, immerse yourself in college life. You get it one time. You get that shot one time, you know, and so, play hard but also do--join some of the college organizations on campus. You know, and network and get to know people in that way, and that was an opportunity I think I didn't take advantage of, you know. I didn't develop any life-long relationships from campus that I really didn't have before I went there. So I would say, do that, because you never know, you know. So, I would suggest you highly do that. And if 00:49:00you don't love the school, go somewhere else.

LW: [Chuckles]

ES: Really, I mean, and I mean that about any school. Go somewhere else. Yes.

LW: I understand. Well, Ms. Shelton, I don't have any more formal questions. Is there anything else you would like to add to the interview?

ES: No.

LW: No. Alright, well, thank you so much for speaking with me. I've enjoyed it.

ES: Okay.

LW: I've enjoyed our conversation and I hope that those who listen to it will learn just as much as I did.

ES: Alright.

LW: Thank you so very much.

ES: Thank you.