Oral history interview with Suzette Thompson-Dudley, 2015

LW: My name is Lisa Withers and today is Tuesday, July 7, 2015. I am in the Pender County [North Carolina] Public Library with Mrs. Suzette Thompson-Dudley, Class of 1970, to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG [The University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Greensboro, North Carolina] African American Institutional Memory Project. Thank you, Mrs. Thompson, for participating in this project and for sharing with me your experiences today.

ST: You're welcome.

LW: Thank you. I'd like to start the interview by asking about your childhood. Would you please tell me when and where you were born?

ST: June 14, 1948 in Wilmington, North Carolina.

LW: Okay, would you be willing to share a little bit about your family and your childhood background? What was it like growing up?

ST: I grew up as an only child in a two-parent family with grandparents on each side and aunts and uncles so it was very family oriented kind of childhood. I went to a kind of precursor I suppose to a pre-school with my next door neighbor's grandmother starting from as early as I can remember. So about the time I started school, I could read and write and recite the books of the Bible forwards and backwards and that kind of thing. My mother was a teacher and my 00:02:00father was a mechanic and a long-distance truck driver. I went to elementary school in Pender County at the school where my mother taught for the first three years. She taught me in the second grade and that was the only year in my college career that I didn't get any A's. The next year I got all A's again so she sent me to school here in Burgaw [North Carolina] and her idea was that I was getting some kind of preferential treatment because she worked at that school. So, in tenth grade she was sent to the school here in Burgaw and so I got packed off and sent to Palmer Memorial Institute [Sedalia, North Carolina] 00:03:00and that was a fantastic experience. I guess that, you know, my childhood, as I consider it, was pretty typical at the time. So is there anything that you need me to expound on that?

LW: [Laughter] Well I was going to ask do you remember the name of the school in Burgaw you attended?

ST: Yes, that was C.F. Pope.

LW: Okay. C-F--.

ST: P-o-p-e.

LW: Pope. Is that elementary school?

ST: It was a high school. Actually, it was first through twelfth grade.

LW: Okay. So and you mentioned Palmer which I got very excited because that's one my favorite places. And so what years were you at Palmer?

ST: My junior and senior years so I guess it would have been '64 through '66.

LW: '64 through '66. Okay, so was that still when Miss [Wilhelmina M.] Crosson was there.

ST: Yes, Miss Crosson was there.

LW: Miss Wilhelmina Crosson.

ST: Yes, Miss Crosson was definitely there.

LW: [Laughter] Yes, so would you be willing to tell me a little bit, what was it like to be a student at Palmer? What was your experience like?

ST: It was different in the--to the extent that--first of all, it was a boarding 00:05:00school so I was away from home probably for the first time not with relatives I'll say. It was a great experience because you got to meet people from all over. We had kids from all the Caribbean and--I had a classmate from Africa and lots of kids from Philadelphia [Pennsylvania], [New] Jersey, D.C. [Washington, District of Columbia], some from the South, from Florida and Georgia. It was, I guess, my first real minorly, minorly international experience. But it was--it was quite different going from public school to that kind of environment. It was 00:06:00a very strict social aspect. We were expected to dress a certain way and act a certain way and--. It was not a difficult kind of transition. It was just, I guess it was regimented. I never--if I were going shopping at home would I have 00:07:00thought to dress up and wear a hat and gloves, but that was kind of what--what was expected at Palmer. Academically it was--I found it interesting. I found it more challenging I suppose than public schools. For one thing the classes were very much smaller and the individual attention that was given to each student was a lot greater. There were expectations at home when I was going to school. It was just kind of--family expectations. I knew that when I brought my report 00:08:00card home if I didn't have all A's I needed to have an explanation for why, but it was, you know, just, as I said, a familial thing. At Palmer, I think I became competitive. I guess, to the extent that having been number one in my class in public school, I wanted to be--to maintain that. And it was--it was an interesting situation. At the end of my senior year because in the past, the rule had been that the valedictorian would be the person with the highest academic average but 00:09:00the tradition had been that it would be a person that had been there for at least four years. And, as it turned out, I had the highest average but I had only been there for two years. So, we had co-valedictorians that year. So I thought it was, you know, it was interesting but it was--it was, you know, when I think back on how Miss Crosson always talked about how she was preparing us for what we were going to do in the future and, you know, that kind of thing. It was the best decision that my mother ever made for me, I guess.

LW: Yes, so could you tell--what was--did you have much interaction with Miss Crosson? What was it like to interact with her?

ST: We had at least weekly assembly programs, vespers or whatever. Miss Crosson was always in the classroom building if she was on campus. She was so--hardly, hardly a day passed that you didn't get to say "Good morning" or "Good afternoon" or whatever to Miss Crosson. If at no other time than breakfast, lunch, or dinner because we had, we had formal place settings and regular pass the food around and there was no loud talking in the cafeteria and that kind of thing, so, she was always there for most meals and she and the faculty sat on 00:11:00one--at one table at one end and then it was kind of, we got into groups according to what grade we were in. I think the most difficult part about Palmer was getting used to the uniform. We had to wear uniform but that and, as I said, getting accustomed to being away from home. Miss Crosson never missed an opportunity to tell you if you were doing something wrong, very seldom missed an opportunity to tell you if you were doing something right. She had been known to 00:12:00send us, the whole school, back to the dorms if too many people were yawning during vespers or something, yes, but it was--she was very strict but she said that my class was the class that she was meant to leave with, and we were--I think, she was harder on us than she was--had been on any of the other classes or whatever. But, she said that, I don't remember how many of us it was, but the number of students in the senior class matched the number of years she had been 00:13:00president and for a lot of reasons she said that she thought she needed to leave with us so it was--it was very interesting experience. As seniors we had to spend a grading period, it was six weeks. Groups of eight of us stayed in what was called the Senior Cottage and we were there with two ladies who were extremely strict and most of us in the group that I was there with were Sunday School teachers and so it was--it was fun. It was--we were always trying to put one over on Miss Crosson and most of the time we didn't because she tended to say when 00:14:00things went wrong that her seniors would not do that. It had to be those juniors, so.

LW: Okay, so you mentioned the uniform. Can you describe what the uniform looked like?

ST: It was a skirt. I think it was a--I'm not even sure that I remember whether it was a plaid or--but it was--I remember it was a skirt and a blouse, a white blouse, and of course it had to be tucked in and we had to wear lace up shoes with white socks or knee socks and I think it was the shoes that I disliked more than anything [laughter]. But, I hadn't thought about it in years what the 00:15:00uniform was because, I mean, it was the kind of thing where when you were packing to go, you--you know, you had to have the uniforms and you had to have the Sunday stuff and the weekend stuff and so it was just kind of got to be, I guess, the way it is with kids now who have to wear uniforms to school, you know. They--it's just, the norm.

LW: And so I know you just mentioned a little--you had to spend six weeks in the Senior Cottage, in Mass Cottage [Massachusetts Congregational Women's Cottage]. Could you tell me a little bit about what you were expected to do in the 00:16:00cottage? I know it was part of the home economic requirement.

ST: No.

LW: No? Okay.

ST: It was just, I think, the experience of living in a smaller setting with, and I'm not sure whether we got to kind of self-select who was going to be there at the time but it must have been some selection process. I don't remember what, but I do remember that everybody that was there with me was, you know, we were all in the same group. Like I said, most of us were Sunday School teachers and most of us were Honor Roll. Most of us were on the--we did have a yearbook the year that I was there. We were--a lot of us were on the yearbook staff and so it was just that. I mean we stayed there in the Senior Cottage where--instead of 00:17:00being in a dormitory with eighty people, you know, you were in a house setting with eight people and the two house mothers. We, during that time, had to go and have tea on Sundays or special occasions with Miss Crosson at Canary Cottage and that was, of course, a dress up affair where you dressed and you wore your gloves and you sat and you sipped tea and minded your manners [laughter], those 00:18:00kinds of things so it was--it was a great experience academically. It was great socially and I think probably because it was at a--at the time that it was, it was, it was great honor, a personal level, as far as racial identity and pride and history and that kind of thing, you know, to actually attend a school that 00:19:00had been started by a black woman in the South and, you know, to know that being a Palmerite was, you know, it was, it had some weight, let me put it that way.

LW: Yes, that was going to be something I was going to ask before shifting over in the nature of my questions. I know Dr. Charlotte Hawkins Brown started Palmer in the early 1900s and I believe when you were there Dr. Brown may have already passed away?

ST: Yes.

LW: And by that time--. But I've heard from, speaking with other alumni of Palmer how Dr. [Miss] Crosson was carrying on in Dr.--. I just wanted to know if you could speak to that, did you see any evidence as to how that--how Dr. Brown may still have had a presence even though she was no longer with them.

ST: We had a--Dr. Brown wrote a book called The Correct Thing [to Do, to Say, to Wear, 1941] it was required reading and it was--it was kind of our guide in this, 00:20:00all of the things that she talked about in her book were the things that we were expected to do--the people we were expected to be, so yes, Dr. Brown was never out of the room, you know, it was like we were there because of her struggles and it was our duty to live up to the standards that she had set and Miss 00:21:00Crosson always talked about preparing us for 1984 and I'm not sure exactly what that was all about but it was--it was the preparation. It was the situation where you learned how to be comfortable talking to your friends at home when you came home and you know the 'hood vernacular and at the same time you felt that if you were to meet the president you would know exactly how you were to act and what 00:22:00to say and what to do so, yes, it was--we had a lot of connection with Bennett College [Greensboro, North Carolina] there. We went there for a lot of social events and it was kind of--Bennett was kind of like the big sister, you know, for Palmer, at least for the girls [laughter].

LW: I know that I often have heard other alumni mention whenever they went to downtown Greensboro, people would always say, "This either got to be a Palmer girl or a Bennett Girl." They would have the blazers and the gloves and the hats, so.

ST: Right.

LW: Yes ma'am. Alright, well thank you much for sharing a little bit about your time at Palmer and I know a lot of students who went to Palmer, they ended up going to colleges such as Fisk University [Nashville, Tennessee] or Howard [University, Washington, District of Columbia] or even Central [North Carolina Central University] in Durham [North Carolina], so what led you decide to go to UNCG?

ST: The guidance counselors, or counselor, it was one, was trying to find 00:23:00candidates to integrate the schools, the college, universities, and so we were asked to apply to non-traditionally black colleges. It was a part of integrating them and it was--the way it was presented to us was, I guess, kind of like a challenge. It's, they say, "You can't compete and so if you take the SAT 00:24:00[Scholastic Aptitude Test] and your scores are high enough to meet their standards and your grades are good enough to meet their standards, then we want you to apply and want to hold them accountable if you aren't admitted." So it was, it was that, more than anything. I did receive a full year, offered a full ride scholarship at a college in Ohio and my mother used the excuse that it 00:25:00would cost her more to pay for my transportation back and forth on holidays et cetera if I took that free ride than, you know, it would cost for me to go to UNCG. So, that is basically how I ended up at UNCG. I was a part of the push to integrate, I guess.

LW: And so was this push and this was led by the guidance counselor at Palmer? Or was that some student initiative?

ST: It was the teachers and the counselors. It was not that they were not telling us that traditionally black schools were not places that we should go. 00:26:00It was just that, at the time, the tone of the conversation was that--I, let me see if I can--. It was not that they wanted those schools, those traditionally white schools, all-white schools, to lower their standards to accept black kids. It was that they wanted them to accept the ones that could meet the standards that they required for the white kids. So, if your scores on the SAT were significantly higher than the average and your grades were good and you were 00:27:00graduating from Palmer, then you ought not have trouble getting admitted to these schools. So, it was, if I had my druthers, I probably would have gone to Central. My next door neighbor and best friend for life went to Central but I felt--I felt compelled I guess to do my part and it was like, "Okay, somebody's got to do it." And so, I was, I was one of those that chose to try it.

LW: And so I guess I know you mentioned the "we" and "one of those" so there were other students as well who made the decision to--that it was a group?

ST: Well, there were, at the time that I went to UNCG, there were at least two, I believe, two other Palmer graduates who were there and so that was, that was one of the--that school was one of the ones that they were targeting for.

LW: Do you--I'm sorry. I was going to ask if you remembered who they were.

ST: Oh. I don't. I really don't. If I can find my old--my old yearbook from 00:29:00freshman year or something and look I probably could find out but I don't off the top of my head remember who they were because actually I would not have known them personally because, like I said, I was only there for two years. So, there was, there was not a lot of interaction between the grades.

LW: At Palmer.

ST: Right.

LW: Not a lot of interaction. I just find it really interesting the fact there were also two other Palmer alumni at UNCG when you attended--decided to go. And you also mentioned there was a school in Ohio you applied to?

ST: Yes.

LW: Do you remember which school?

ST: I do not remember the name of the school. It might have been--it was something strange. I want to say Defiance but then I could be mixing that up with a television program. It was not, you know, a big name school. It was not 00:30:00something, you know, a school that I had even heard about, but--.

LW: So when you got your acceptance letter and you decided to go, what was the reaction of family and friends to go to UNCG?

ST: It was mixed I guess. A lot of my friends, you know, thought I guess it was kind of a "better you than me." My mother's attitude was that you need to go and 00:31:00you need to show that you can do what you need to do to be there and stay there and graduate. My attitude kind of was, you know, one place was as good as another, I guess. I've got to go. But I've never regretted the experience. Not in hindsight anyway.

LW: I was wondering, how would you describe the transition or your experience transitioning from a school like Palmer to UNCG?

ST: Well, it was, it was, it was different. We had, at that time, what was 00:32:00called the Freshman Quad. And they were these dorms that were only for freshman and there were very few male students at that time. I'm not even sure they had a male dorm my freshman year. But, in my dorm, I was one of eight blacks and there were--was my room and one other room on my hall, excuse me, third floor hall with black students and then there was room on the second floor. We, even though we were in an integrated situation, we were still assigned black roommates and there were three of us in each room. So we had a bunk bed and a regular bed. And 00:33:00there was not, at first, I'd say most of my freshman year, there was not a lot of interaction between us and them. It was kind of like, you know, we sat together at lunch and dinner and we kind of congregated together. We went shopping together because usually we would take the bus and then get a cab back to campus. There was a group of us so cab fare was a lot cheaper if you split it, but dances and that kind of thing, you know, it was kind of like we were 00:34:00wall flowers because there were no black guys there to, you know, to dance or to interact with. But I think probably the hardest thing was being the only black student in most of my classes and so you felt, you felt like--I don't know. I guess most people, some people would say a token except that I was too militant to feel like a token, you know. It was, I guess, "I'm here and, you know, you have to deal with me being here." So it was, you know, it was, it was an 00:35:00interesting experience. I thought that one of the things that I found unique about that experience was the honor system. That we had the must, must, may. Yes, and that was to say you must turn yourself in for some rule violation. You saw somebody else breaking a rule or whatever you must tell them that you saw them and ask them to turn themselves in. And then, if they do not, you may turn them in. So, it was--I was kind of shocked that it worked. You know, and it was like--I know that once first semester freshman year, I left my purse hanging on 00:36:00the back a chair in a class and didn't realize it until the next morning and I went back to that classroom and it was still there and, you know, hadn't been touched. It was still hanging right where I left it. I noticed that during finals, you know, you saw some people cheating and before grades came out, you heard that they had been suspended for a semester or whatever, you know. And it's like, you don't know did they turn themselves in or did somebody else turn them in. But it was, you know, it was just that kind of thing that I found--I 00:37:00appreciated I guess. I liked that kind of responsibility I guess and it was--it was at the end of freshman year, of the eight people that I knew--black kids that I knew--only three of us came back. And so, I lived, after that, my roommate was a girl from another dorm that, you know, I knew because we hung out together because both of my roommates were put on academic probation and suspended for a year. So, you got, you got the best and the brightest but, they couldn't--they 00:38:00couldn't all cope and I'm not sure in some cases it was the whole freedom thing. Not being able to deal with the lack of supervision and, you know, the somebody to keep you on task and other cases I think it was just the pressure of being the only one. And so I know that I could write a paper for instance and know that it was at least a B+ paper. But I was not going to get anything above a C. So, it was okay. You can keep the grade from me but you can't keep the learning 00:39:00from me. So, you know, it was that kind of thing, having to come to terms with knowing you were not going to be treated equally and you know in all instances. I remember during orientation, we had to take a speech test, and I have no idea to this day why, but the person that was giving the test asked me, at some point, "Where are you from?" And I said, "Wilmington." "Wilmington, what?" I said, "Wilmington, North Carolina." Didn't say Burgaw because nobody knew where 00:40:00Burgaw was. She said, "You're not from North Carolina." I said, "I'm not?" "No, you don't have a Southern accent. You're not from North Carolina." And I said, "Oh, okay. Strange thing, I was born and lived here all my life, so whatever." You know, I mean, and I mean she had the real Southern thing going on and it was like, okay, I'm supposed to speak in dialect maybe or I'm supposed to have an accent. I never did come to terms with what she was--where she was going with that but it was just little ways that or little things that were said that, you know, made you feel special and not always in a good way. But I think that those 00:41:00of us that stuck it out and got through it appreciated the education that we got.

LW: Well, I just wanted to ask some follow up questions to some of the things you've already talked about thus far. Do you remember the names of the dorms that you stayed in while you were on campus?

ST: Bailey [Residence] Hall freshman year and Reynolds [Residence Hall] the last three years.

LW: Okay and you talked about shopping. I don't want to assume it was downtown Greensboro.

ST: It was.

LW: It was downtown Greensboro. Any stores in particular that ya'll would go to to go shopping?

ST: I can remember a Thalheimers. We used to shop there and that--that one stands out in my mind because I remember when I was a senior at Palmer and we went shopping one day and we were in Thalheimers and we were looking at the fragrances, bath salts and stuff, and this lady came in and kind of pushed us aside and she said to the sales clerk, "I want a bottle of that Jean Natty." And, you know, we just kind of started laughing and she, you know, and my friend said, "You think she means Jean Nat--?" "No, it's Jean Natty [laughter]." And it, you know, it was just stuff like that, that I remember, you know, but that still 00:43:00makes me smile [laughter].

LW: So you were mentioning, talking a little bit about the dances and how at times you felt like wall flowers. Could you describe a little bit more about what these dances--were they just general social events--?

ST: Yes.

LW: On campus?

ST: Yes.

LW: Where were they held?

ST: At the student center.

LW: Elliott Hall [Elliott University Center].

ST: Yes. I believe so.

LW: Okay and did they have dances frequently?

ST: Sometimes they had--yes. Well, not, not real frequently or they might have, I don't know. I don't remember going to but one or two but they, they did have concerts and those kinds of things and they were usually pretty multicultural, 00:44:00even, you know, even then so. We hung out a lot, now what they called, at the time, The Corner. And there was a place there that sold cider and can't remember if it was The Apple Cellar or The Rat Cellar or whatever but we used to spend a lot of time, you know, there illegally drinking beer and you know--all the stuff that college students do.

LW: Do you remember where The Corner was located?

ST: It was kind of adjacent to Aycock Auditorium. It's a little shopping area. 00:45:00There were--there was a little grocery store and couple of other stores. About two blocks from--is the Yum-Yum's still there?

LW: It's moved locations but it's still on--it's on Spring Garden Street.

ST: Yes, it's about two blocks from there. It was--I think it was also on Spring Garden.

LW: Yes, I think where Yum-Yum's used to be is where they put the Mossman Administration Building.

ST: Okay.

LW: In later years. Yes ma'am. Okay, so, you know, you talked about the dances that they would have multicultural events in Elliott Hall. What were some other things that you and your peers would do for fun on campus or off campus?

ST: We would go to homecoming games at A&T [North Carolina Agricultural & Technical State University, Greensboro, North Carolina]. Sometimes we'd go over 00:46:00to A&T for, you know, just for a football game or whatever just to be surrounded by other black folks. We--freshman year, we had Monday through--I can't remember if it was Monday through Thursday or Monday through Friday, we had a--we were supposed to be in the dorm from like six till ten and everybody had to be in at ten. I mean, you know, even upperclassmen but it was if you weren't in the dorm you were supposed to be in the library. It was supposed to be a study time. You were supposed to be doing schoolwork. So, there was, you know, it was really not 00:47:00a lot that you could do socially during the week. I had an aunt who taught in Greensboro and lived in Reidsville [North Carolina], and so a lot of weekends I was with her or came home, you know, down here with her. So, I was--I didn't spend a lot of weekends there. The tennis courts were right across from our dorm freshman year. We used to go over there and hit balls or, you know, whatever. Swing at balls anyhow. But it was, yes, just, I guess the usual thing. I guess what college students do, just get together--well we did a lot of cards, we played a lot of cards [laughter].

LW: I've heard about the card games.

ST: Oh, we played a lot Bridge.

LW: Bridge? Okay.

ST: Bridge.

LW: That's what--most time I heard there was a lot of Bid Whist and Pinochle.

ST: Okay, what well, you have to remember there were very few of us there at the time. So, you couldn't find anybody--you couldn't find four people to play Bid Whist. So you learned how to play Bridge. And you could always find a Bridge game.

LW: Okay. Okay, so yes. You had Bridge. Yes I was also going to say--you mentioned going over to A&T for homecoming. Would you say there was a lot of interaction among the African American students at UNCG with the students at A&T or at Bennett, especially with you association with Bennett being a Palmerite?

ST: No. I don't--the girls at A&T and Bennett resented us, very much so. You know you didn't wear a UNCG tee shirt over there. You know, it was like, I guess we were over there hunting or whatever. You know it was--and the same thing with the Bennett girls. It was like we--I don't know if it was that we were sell outs or we just didn't belong. We were from the other side of the tracks and I didn't 00:50:00understand why they felt that way until Martin Luther King, [Jr.] got assassinated and they had some rioting over at A&T and the National Guard came and protected us and they didn't go on that side of town. So, you know, I--that kind of helped me understand the resentment because there was absolutely nothing going on at UNCG and the rioting, the brick throwing, the whatever was all going on on the other side of town but the National Guard was over there protecting us, so--.

LW: So you had the Guard, the National Guard was somewhat protecting UNCG's campus.

ST: Yes.

LW: As if shielding that part of Greensboro from whatever was happening on the other side of Greensboro.

ST: Yes, they were actually on campus like, you know, if you were walking to class you might pass by a solider or--yes.

LW: Okay. Could you tell me a little bit more--your memories of when Dr. King was assassinated? Or maybe what was the reaction amongst the African American students who were on UNCG's campus when that happened?

ST: I think that we were--we were all shocked and hurt and I personally was mad. And, we had--we had friends obviously that were white and they were, in some 00:52:00cases, they could be our friends until their parents came to visit. And then, they couldn't knock on our door and introduce us as their friends or if we passed by in the hall, you know, it was kind of like, you know, I don't really know them. So, it was, you know, that kind of thing and when Dr. King was killed it was kind of-- just tense. As I said, it was more what are they going to do at A&T than what's going on at, you know, at UNCG. It was more like, it was a fear of the folks at A&T coming over and doing something to the white girls at UNCG 00:53:00than anything--I mean that was, that was the feeling that I got. More, let's protect, let's keep the peace over here and if they want to demonstrate or whatever, then okay. Just let them do it and we'll just keep everything calm here. And it was kind of like for a while, you know, people kind of tipped around you. Whites, like they're careful with what they said and how they reacted with you and that kind of thing.

LW: Well, I think it's interesting because--didn't Robert F. Kennedy was also 00:54:00assassinated that year? So was there, maybe, a different response or reaction when his assassination occurred?

ST: Not, not that I can remember. I don't remember very much of a reaction with Kennedy's assassination. There was, you know, the shock and the, "I can't believe this happened." But it was not like--when, it's like when Dr. King was killed it was, it was, it was kind of like a--you could sense a fear of, you know, like anticipation of something bad is going to happen. And it was not--it was not, you know, it wasn't a good time. It was a time when, as I said, I 00:55:00guess, and I and most of the people that I know were just angry. We were--if you didn't have an afro, you wanted to grow one or, you know, it was just--I don't know. It was like--I guess probably kind of like the thing in Charleston [South Carolina], you know, where there were some people who believed that Dr. King knew that that was where he was headed and it was, you know, it was inevitable.1 And, you know, that we needed to accept it and go on with--and then there were other people that felt like, you know, it's time to stop turning the other cheek 00:56:00and--. So, it was just kind of something that you had to deal with on a personal level, you know, and reach your own inner peace with it.

LW: Okay, okay. I guess kind of going along that train of thought in our conversation. So were there--would you say was there any evidence of a political atmosphere on campus or anyone whether white or black protesting about anything that was going on nationally at the time or even within, in the community?

ST: I think that there was the--there was still stuff going on with Vietnam and there were, there were the peace protests and we had the hippies and the, you 00:57:00know, the--that whole thing. There were the drug busts. There was--there was a rumor that girls on the third floor burned a red light in the window at the end of the hall for advertising purposes. But, you know, it was just those kinds of things that--it, it's difficult today to even imagine because if a janitor of 00:58:00somebody had a father or brother or something you know, they were yelling, "Man on the hall, man on the hall." And it was just that you weren't supposed to have men on the hall or in the residence area and you could go to certain floors any time of the day or night and, you know, just meet a man walking down the hall. And, so it was just kind of weird. So, I don't know. I think that it was very much a different experience than my best friend was having at Central. They had all the rules and the, you know, somebody's checking on you and--you got to, you know, and it was like we were on the honor system, must, must, may. And it was 00:59:00not, I mean we didn't do bad things as such. We might play cards until three o'clock in the morning and decide that we wanted some Dunkin' Donuts and well the dorm's closed so you get somebody to go and stay at the desk and you go out and get the doughnuts and they let you in and, you know, that kind of stuff. But, you know, we were--I'd say, I think, it was just typical--I assumed that's what everybody did in college. I don't know [laughter].

LW: Okay. Well, I guess to shift a little bit to get a better understanding of the academics while you were there.

ST: Academics.

LW: Yes.

ST: It was different. It was, I think freshman year, I had one class that was like in an auditorium and you went there for the lecture and then two days out of the week you went to lab. And then it was that kind of class I found very impersonal and I couldn't really connect with that. On the other hand, there were, there were classes that I just couldn't get enough of, you know, it's like 01:01:00Western Civilizations. I had a professor that taught religions and, you know, you learned about Buddhism and Hinduism and that kind of stuff and in the context of history and, you know, that was interesting. I was an English major and Shakespeare classes were fantastic. I loved the grammar and composition classes. Did not like American Literature. And I can remember still because it 01:02:00was a final exam and I know that I did well but there was one question about somebody named J. Alfred Prufrock and [laughter] I remember that my answer--it was an essay question. My answer to the question was that he was ugly and his mama dressed him funny. And I remember I got a C on the test even though I figured I should have gotten at least a B because that was the only question that I really messed up on but, you know, it was--I think that it was senior year and by that time it as just kind of over.

LW: Senioritis gets us all [laughter]. I was going to ask, you know, what led 01:03:00you to decide to be an English major?

ST: I think that it was a toss-up between English and history and those were the subjects that I found most interesting, and just as I have a problem with American literature, I have a problem with American history. And, so it just kind of was easier to major in English because I could concentrate on British literature or grammar and composition as opposing to having to take one semester of American lit, so. That was, that was it. However, I got a job teaching English in Fayetteville [North Carolina] before I graduated. And I taught 01:04:00eleventh grade gifted and talented kids and the summer after my first year I started working on my master's in exceptional education at Central with a concentration on mental retardation. So, I did not find teaching English gratifying. I felt kids were--as I said, I was teaching the gifted and talented kids and they knew and liked literature but they didn't know mechanics and grammar and they didn't want to learn it and so I found it frustrating because I 01:05:00thought that that was more important really. Anybody can read a story or read a poem or whatever but can you write a story? Can you write a sentence even? So, you know, it was just not rewarding and, as I said, my mother had been teaching retarded kids. At that time, they were called "retarded." And when I would come home and go to her classroom and, you know, just observe the difference and the kids that I had for study hall or whatever, the ones that were challenged, how much harder they worked and how much more gratification it was to work with 01:06:00them. So, I got my master's in special education and I taught exceptional children for the next twenty-six years.

LW: Okay, and so did you retire as a teacher--.

ST: Yes.

LW: Or end your career as a teacher?

ST: Yes.

LW: Okay. Well, you just answered my question what did you do after you graduated UNCG [laughter]?

ST: Yes.

LW: And so since the time that you graduated have you been involved with the university in any way?

ST: I--I went back a couple of times early on and then no, until my son started 01:07:00talking about college applications. And I suggested he apply to UNCG. And he was like, "Mama, I'm either going to Chapel Hill [The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, North Carolina] or I'm not going." I'm like, "You're going someplace." And so he did and in order to calm me down he did apply to UNCG and to Chapel Hill, only two places he applied and he was accepted immediately, early acceptance at UNCG and offered financial assistance. So he said, "Okay mom, I got my backup." So, he got accepted at Chapel Hill and he went--and he graduated from Chapel Hill but he and his new wife both received 01:08:00their master's at UNCG, so--.

LW: He still went [laughter].

ST: Yes, he still went [laughter].

LW: Alright, and so, I do have a few concluding questions but I realize that there are a few. I just want to try to be thorough and go through--. Do you remember anything about the administration at UNCG while you were there? Was there any interaction with the chancellors or anyone?

ST: Not, the only time I remember is, you know, if there was some mix up with the finances or some reason you got a call or a letter to a certain office for something but other than that. And trying to get out of showing up for graduation.

LW: That was mandatory?

ST: Well, not--you had to pay not to come.

LW: Really?

ST: You had to pay to have your diploma or whatever sent to you. So, it was like, "I don't want to go," and my mother was like, "You're going." But, yes, no you know except for things like class rings and school jackets, blazers and those kinds of things, very little contact with the administration.

LW: Okay, I know you just mentioned the class jackets and rings, I know were two very popular traditions that were at UNCG. Were there any other traditions 01:10:00that you remember happening on campus or that were things that happened every year?

ST: Not that I can remember. I remember wishing that we had sororities but we didn't at that time. And well, they had sororities but they were pretty much--I don't, I don't know a single person who was in school with me who might have been a part of a sorority. Ada Fisher [Class of 1970] might have been but I don't know.

LW: Okay and I was going to also ask--I know we talked a lot about the social life on campus. Were any student groups or organizations that you were a part of 01:11:00that you remember? I know the yearbook said, you were in G.U.T.S. [Greensboro United Tutorial Service], which I think was a student mentoring group that was on campus.

ST: Yes.

LW: But I didn't know if you happened to remember about being a part of any particular groups or--.

ST: No.

LW: Okay. I know--I also always like to ask, I know, I think you would have been a junior or senior, but the Neo-Black Society was kind of just getting its start so I didn't know if you were aware or knew the people--?

ST: I was aware. I knew about it. I probably attended a couple of meetings but I was not real into it. I think it was probably most active my senior year and, of course, the spring semester there was student teaching and after that it was 01:12:00over, so.

LW: Yes, so where did you do you student teaching?

ST: At Dudley High School.

LW: Okay, at Dudley High School in Greensboro.

ST: Yes.

LW: Alright, well, we've really gone through the majority of all of my questions. Last thing really to ask, what would you like people to know about your time at UNCG and how would you describe the impact, if any, it may have had for you and what you ended up doing later on in your career?

ST: I think that it was a difficult time. It was a lot of adjusting and I think 01:13:00that if I had gone from public school there, I would not have been as equipped to handle things as I was. I think, I think Palmer was good preparation for that. As far as impact, I guess, as I said I had a job contract ready to be signed as soon as I got my degree. At Seventy-First High School in Fayetteville, teaching English, and I had a job offer for Anne Arundel County in Maryland but 01:14:00my mother did the guilt trip thing with me again so I took the Fayetteville job and I had absolute no problem getting a job. I had--I mean I went to two interviews, I got two job offers. On the other hand, my best friend at Central had no job offers. Ended up moving to Massachusetts to live some relatives and got a job there. So, I think that being black and graduating from UNCG was a door opener, I think. You know that is probably the one time that race and 01:15:00gender worked in my favor because they were looking--you know, they were integrating the schools and they were looking for black teachers and I suppose the thought was that those of us who were graduating from the predominately white colleges were better equipped to deal with the integrated classroom. Don't know that for a fact but, you know, I can just judge by how easy it was for me to get a job as opposed to friends that were graduating from Central because my freshman roommate when she was put on academic probation at UNCG, enrolled at Central and so she graduated along with my best friend at Central and, again, 01:16:00you know, there was the job thing, so. I think it's been, you know, it was an experience that I wasn't particularly thrilled about as it was happening but in hindsight, I think it was, you know, it was, it was a good decision and it was, you know, it was a learning, a real learning experience [laughter]. Not just an academic learning experience. It was a real life learning experience. And I think it was a lot different when my son was there than when I was there so I 01:17:00think that that's a good thing.

LW: Well, Mrs. Thompson, I don't have any more formal questions. Is there anything else you would like to add to the interview?

ST: No, can't think of anything.

LW: Well, alright. Well, I thank you so much for your time. I learned a lot today and I hope that many students who hear this interview, they will learn a lot as well. So thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your memories of being a student at UNCG.

ST: You are quite welcome.

LW: Alright, going to [turn off the recorder].