Oral history interview with Donggeum Lee, 2016

Lacey: Okay, it's recording now. Today is November the 21st, it's a Monday, 2016. My name is Lacey, and I'm going to be interviewing Donggeum Lee for the 125th Anniversary Oral History's. Can you pronounce your name on the recorder?

Donggeum Lee: Donggeum Lee. But, usually in Korea, we say last name first. And given name after that.

Lacey: Okay.

Donggeum Lee: Lee Donggeum.

Lacey: Lee Donggeum.

Donggeum Lee: Yes.

Lacey: Okay. All right. So we'll just get started and just do the ... start it kind of at the beginning. When were you born?

Donggeum Lee: I was born in 1979. I'm old. In South Korea.

Lacey: Oh, okay.

Donggeum Lee: Yeah.

Lacey: Where in South Korea? Where in South Korea?

Donggeum Lee: Actually, in the Jochiwon, it is located in the midst. In the midst here in North, not North Korea, South Korea.

Lacey: What did your parents do?

Donggeum Lee: Why parents, they are farmer, but my father passed away when I was young. But my parents and grandparents, also, they are farmers. So, when I was little, I remember they are always busy to harvest and sell produce. And they are rich and wealth. We are wealthy family in that area. Not only our families. Actually, our clan lived in that city. So, if I say I'm Lee living in the small town, then many people living in the city, they know our family. Yeah.

Lacey: Oh, that's cool. What do they grow?

Donggeum Lee: We focused on rice. Yeah, so we sell rice, but also we cultivated many thing. Eggplant, pepper, cucumber, apricot, and peach. Many thing.

Lacey: Wow. That's a lot.

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lacey: Do you have brothers and sisters?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. I have five sisters.

Lacey: Wow.

Donggeum Lee: And one brother, so it's like many farmer's family, they have usually lots of children. We are same situation, so I helped my friend parents and parents a lot, so yeah.

Lacey: With the farming? You'd help them with that?

Donggeum Lee: Yes, especially during the harvest, the season, even though my parents, they hire many workers but also, we helped to ... For example, I helped 00:03:00my mom to prepare food because in Korea, usually in ... Not nowadays, but when I was young, there's still some culture. The employers, if they're farmer, they have to prepare meal for their workers.

Lacey: Oh, that's interesting.

Donggeum Lee: So I helped my mom to prepare food.

Lacey: What would you give them?

Donggeum Lee: Rice and soup and stir-fried vegetables and meat and alcohol, a little bit.

Lacey: Okay. What's the school situation like in Korea? Would it be a high school? Is that like ...

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Universal education system it start from kindergarten and 00:04:00elementary school, middle school, high school, and university.

Lacey: So you went to college in Korea first?

Donggeum Lee: Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lacey: What did you major in?

Donggeum Lee: I majored in Horticulture Science. It is kind of field in agriculture because my background is associated, related to that agriculture field. But actually, I got degree from horticulture, but when I entered the college, my major was business administration. But later, I thought that I might need to study agriculture because I wanted to become missionary in the future. 00:05:00So when I saw a movie or TV show, I saw many African countries, many missionaries, they help to develop in the city town using agriculture technology and education, so I thought that would be good.

Lacey: Okay, so you switched from business to agriculture.

Donggeum Lee: Right.

Lacey: That's cool. And you got your degree in what year would you say?

Donggeum Lee: I graduated in 2004.

Lacey: What happened after that?

Donggeum Lee: After then, I began to work in the company which imported agriculture materials from Netherlands, Denmark, Israel, so my job was to deal with kind of everything from import and distribute our clients. So, our clients 00:06:00who were farmers, and I placed an order on behalf of them. And I tracked the transportation and shipping date and delivery date. And if the product is, there's any problem, then I claimed and I replaced the new one. That kind of thing. So, especially there are several divisions in the company, but I focused on the irrigation system, grading system, and bell pepper seeds and tomato seeds.

Lacey: Oh wow.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. And some glasses to build greenhouse.

Lacey: Oh cool. Yeah, so you sort of handled the distribution of all those and transport.

Donggeum Lee: Right. Also, I calculate the commission, and what else? Also, my company, we hired a bell pepper specialist, so they regularly visit South Korea because we didn't have the seeds in Korea. So they taught how to grow bell pepper. So, how we can use the computer system, how we can control temperature, light, and water. That kind of thing. So, I accompanied with the specialist, and I interpreted the things to farmers.

Lacey: So, it was kind of like an education thing?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. I can say it's education. At the time, most of the bell pepper, we exported to Japan. So, the domestic market only 3%, 4% is produced, distributed in the domestic market. That's why we need to grow high-quality bell pepper to export.

Lacey: That makes sense. And were you still in the same town your family was at this time?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. My mom still lives in Jochiwon.

Lacey: Were you still living there when you were working for-?

Donggeum Lee: Yes, in the same house. Actually, my neighbors, they already left that city because at that time, most of the lands are used for agricultural 00:09:00things, farmers and [inaudible 00:09:11]. But nowadays, my hometown became the administrative city. Anyway, that kind of thing, so many new company and apartment were built in that area. My mom, she still lives in there.

Lacey: When did that change occur? Did that occur recently?

Donggeum Lee: In 2007 and 2008, that one new president, he decided Seoul is too big city. So, to prohibit to getting bigger city, Seoul, he announced if I 00:10:00become president, then I will try to relocate some administrative agencies, that kind of organization in the local cities. So, my hometown was one of them. So now several agencies moved to my hometown, and it's now more educated people living there. And then was later ... Most of my neighbors, they lived in that town more than 100 years from their ancestors, grand-grandfather's grandfathers. But nowadays, if I visit there, I can see many new faces. It's like a city.

Lacey: Okay. Lot of generational differences there since people moved?

Donggeum Lee: Right.

Lacey: Yeah? Okay. Is it more urban now, too?

Donggeum Lee: It's still suburban, but a little bit more. They have now swimming pool, but when I was little, we don't have that one. I have to visit other city, and ice rink. That kind of thing.

Lacey: That's cool. When did you transition to the United States?

Donggeum Lee: I came here in 2008. In 2007, I married with my husband. He's Korean, too. But he wanted just to be in the United States. Many Koreans, they prefer studying in the United States than any other country.

Lacey: Why do you think that is?

Donggeum Lee: Because America is very familiar to us. We have a very good image 00:12:00to USA. Because we have experience of a civil war in 1950, Korean War. People still ... Not still, yes, it's true. Because of UN, the soldiers, they helped us. That's why we live in freedom in South Korea. But North Korea is very horrible. That's why we always have the thankful heart to American and our friend countries. So people afraid of if America does not help South Korea, the North Korea will attack us. So, many people still live in the kind of worry under Kim Jong-un regime. Actually, we have more information about the US than 00:13:00any other country.

Lacey: Really?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah.

Lacey: Did not know that.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Actually, when I was in middle school, my social studies teacher, she gave us one blank paper that's the map of United States. I memorized the 50 states when I was in high school. And also, I had to answer the mountain ranges in the United States. What is it? Ohio, there's potato, that kinds of ... Corn, Iowa. I also learned that kind of thing.

Lacey: That's cool. That's cool.

Donggeum Lee: Even Americans, they did not learn that.

Lacey: There are definitely Americans today who do not know that.

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lacey: So you got married in 2007?

Donggeum Lee: Yes, 2007, and I moved here in 2008.

Lacey: You moved to Greensboro?

Donggeum Lee: Not here. We settled down in Hatfield. It is in Philadelphia. 00:14:00There is a seminary, so my husband, he's now a minister.

Lacey: He was studying to be a minister?

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. There was a good seminary.

Lacey: What was the school called?

Donggeum Lee: Biblical Seminary.

Lacey: I'm gonna write it down.

Donggeum Lee: There are two seminary in Philadelphia. There's one, it's Westminster. Yes, this is very popular.

Lacey: The one on the-

Donggeum Lee: Everybody knows that. Biblical is few people heard about the name. But Korean's-

Lacey: How do you spell it?

Donggeum Lee: Biblical. Biblical Seminary.

Lacey: Thank you.

Donggeum Lee: Westminster is more academic field and Biblical is more seminary 00:15:00and pastorship. That kind of thing.

Lacey: So you moved to Pennsylvania.

Donggeum Lee: Pennsylvania. Yeah, in Hatfield.

Lacey: Hatfield. What was that like?

Donggeum Lee: I had very good image in that city because people were in the city, they were very nice. I think they are still very nice to foreigners. Most of white domesticated city, actually I feel ... I saw only few African-Americans in that area. They were kind. People that I met in that time, they already know about the Asian culture, and they know how to use chopstick. They can speak some simple sentences. Japanese and Chinese, also. They know about Asian things.

Lacey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, what did you do while he was studying?

Donggeum Lee: I just stay at home, and I hang out with other wives, with other girls studying there. And most of time, I took care of my baby. I was pregnant, I gave birth to my first son in the city. Also, my husband, he began to work in small Korean church. Not actually worked, he just helped when we were in there. My life just had the new turning point as just woman that ... a lady become a pastor's wife.

Donggeum Lee: But it was very hard to me because people's expectation was too high. I was about only 29 years old. I just pregnant, I'm busy, but they wanted me to do anything. So I worked in the kitchen, I cleaned the floor, I also took care of the church members, their kids. I did many thing. But the senior pastor, he was not satisfied with me. He was complaining, "You are not ready to become a pastor's wife."

Donggeum Lee: That's Korean's culture. So, the seniority is very strong. And if somebody's older than me, then they think they have some authority to teach somebody. And they want to alter, change their attitude and their mindset. So, I 00:18:00did not like that way because even my senior pastor's wife, she worked. So she did not engage much in any church event. But actually, it was very small church. In United States, the Korean culture in the Korean church, that has many problems. Yeah.

Lacey: Seniority being one of them?

Donggeum Lee: Seniority. And in Korean culture in Korea, usually believers and if somebody say that they have faith, they attend the church. But in United States, Korean Church, everybody just gather. Because they need Korean food, 00:19:00they want to stay Korean, korean politics. It's kind of community, not church. That's why it's a little bit different, and many times, they fight each other and blame each other. It's not church, it's kind of community.

Lacey: That's interesting. So, they would do kind of community events though at the church? Sort of like that to give opportunities to people who wanted that kind of a community as opposed to just a church?

Donggeum Lee: Actually, Koreans like to eat together, share food. That's one of the problem because Korean food is just slow food. It takes lots of time to cook. So if there's any event, for example, yesterday, we had turkey at church. 00:20:00But to prepare the food for more than about 250 congregation, several ladies, they spent two or three days to prepare the food. So it is very stressful, and they were not happy. But that's our culture. We had to dedicate, and ladies, they still are responsible for preparing food. The men, they just help to set up table, but that's it. But the process of preparing food is not easy. Because some people, "Oh, you have to add pepper thi minute," but the other lady, "No. 00:21:00You have to add the paper later." They have different opinion. "This is better way to enhance the taste." "No, this is better." They fight each other. That's not easy.

Lacey: No. It's not. Then you end up with two different kinds of recipes?

Donggeum Lee: I don't know, but actually, the outcome is same taste. There's nothing different.

Lacey: It's just a different process.

Donggeum Lee: Different process, and people believe this is better way, no, this is better than that one. Yeah. Because people's life is very stressful. Many Koreans, they have small business. And that's why they want some ... I don't know why they act like that way, but many times, they just fight and blame to 00:22:00each other. Maybe because many immigrants, if they have good stable job in Korea, they do not leave the country.

Lacey: Sure.

Donggeum Lee: But they hope to have the second chance in the United States for the American dream still. That's why many people, they move here. But when I was in Korea, my friend and the people that I get along with, spend time, they are kind of more, they have more stable jobs. And they're well educated, they lived in Seoul. So, their attitude and these people's attitude are very different. They don't know how to respect other people. They are very ... Yeah, so it's 00:23:00difficult how to react if somebody says something or their behavior, even though we are same Korean, but it's pretty different. So, Korean community, the church is the place when share the love and fight. It takes lots of roles.

Lacey: Sure.

Donggeum Lee: It is very hard to explain all of them, but because different culture ... Yeah.

Lacey: So, there was like a group of wives at the seminary who just kept a little community of their own during the day while the husbands would study?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. Since because the school is seminary, most of the wives, not most of, every wives, they are Christian, too. So we regularly visit, once a week, and we share our prayer request and we read Bible, and we share information, where we can buy food with reasonable price for the good quality. Especially, we are very ... Eating is very important in Korean culture, so we want to buy good quality of meat, fresh vegetables like that with good price. 00:25:00I'm still struggling to find good meat even though my family's, our income is not good, but I prefer buying meat in Whole Food or Fresh Market meat.

Lacey: Good, better quality.

Donggeum Lee: It's very important because we do not eat much. Asians, we are small, but quality is important. That's why even though it is expensive and small size, but we prefer to buy from that store.

Lacey: It makes sense. You had had a baby.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Two sons.

Lacey: The first one in 2008?

Donggeum Lee: 2010.

Lacey: 2010?

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative). The second one was born in 2012.

Lacey: Was this both up in Pennsylvania?

Donggeum Lee: One born in Pennsylvania and the other one born in the Greensboro.

Lacey: How is it raising a child while your husband's at seminary?

Donggeum Lee: Because he was student, he helped me a lot to raise children. The first one.

Lacey: Then you guys moved to Greensboro in what year?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. After my husband, he graduated in 2012? Not 2012, 2011. Then after his graduation, we moved to Texas, Fort Hood city, Killeen.

Lacey: Killeen?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Killeen. There is a big army base, Fort Hood. So. We spend there about six months, then we moved to here, Greensboro, from 2012 so far.

Lacey: What brought you guys to Greensboro, specifically?

Donggeum Lee: Before we move here, we was in Texas. Texas, especially the city, Fort Hood, I was shocked when I arrived the city. It looked like abandoned city. And many people do tattoo, the whole arm.

Lacey: Full sleeve.

Donggeum Lee: Yeah, whole sleeve, whole arm, whole legs. I never seen such things because maybe because my background is more in Christian, that kind of culture. Many people, the old guys, also they had long hair. And many people liked to ride ... What is that?

Lacey: Motorcycles?

Donggeum Lee: Motorcycle. Yeah.

Lacey: It's very different from-

Donggeum Lee: Yeah, different culture. And they liked to, what is it? Put the flag, American flag on the back side of their motorcycle and they race the street. So it was very odd, and I didn't like that city.

Lacey: What had brought you guys to Texas? Did he get a job there?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. We got a job, but it was hard to get used to that kind of culture. And also, the people in the city we met were very different because most of the congregation, they are family of international marriage, Korean lady and American soldiers while they stay in Korea. So, that's why I married with 00:29:00Korean guy. Maybe that's why it hard to understand their life. They have different issue in their family, so when we moved to Texas, it was hard to memorize congregation's name. Because one father and mother, but the children, they have different faces because they married, divorced, married, divorced several time. That's why their siblings have all different faces even though they live together. Their last name was different. So, it was hard to memorize, but not because of that kind of situation. I don't know. Maybe God has some plan for us. Not because of that, with other reason, we had to move to Greensboro.

Lacey: You got another job here?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. We got a job offer here. But this church offered better condition. And since we have student debit.

Lacey: Debt.

Donggeum Lee: It's hard to pronounce debt. Yeah.

Lacey: Student debt.

Donggeum Lee: Debt. Yes.

Lacey: Debt. Yeah.

Donggeum Lee: Student debt. So, we have to paid of debt, student debt. So, we moved to here.

Lacey: What was the job that got him here? Is he ... What's the church?

Donggeum Lee: [foreign language 00:30:51], the First Korean Presbyterian Church.

Lacey: First Korean Presbyterian Church.

Donggeum Lee: It's one of the Korean church. Yeah, so my husband, he's a pastor of the children's ministry. There are several ministries, English ministry, youth ministry, children's ministry, Korean ministry.

Lacey: Okay.

Donggeum Lee: So, we are in children's ministry.

Lacey: What are you in charge ... Is it just like children under the age of 12?

Donggeum Lee: From two years old until 5th grade, elementary school.

Lacey: So like, 10 or 11, I think? No, nine. I think nine. So, you do Bible study and stuff with them?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah, Bible study and [inaudible 00:31:50] and summer camp. What else? And book club and National Geographic things and [inaudible 00:32:00]. We 00:32:00have many programs.

Lacey: That's a lot, yeah.

Donggeum Lee: And Halloween. Picture Day, Pajama Day kind of things.

Lacey: And you are liking this congregation better? It's not as much of a culture difference as it was in Texas?

Donggeum Lee: Yes, because this church is bigger than the previous one, and thr people's, the level of education is it a little bit much higher than previous church. Because the previous church, most of congregations, their average age was around the 15 and 16. And some of them, they could not read and write Korean. The generation, the older generation, about 80, 70, they experienced in 00:33:00Korean War, so they could not get any chance to learn, to go to school. But this church is more people, they have college education, and they have a professional job, they can speak and read English, too. That's why more people are actively engaged in teach Bible. So, many peoples are bilingual, English and Korean. We have more human resources here and financial, too. This church is bigger, and so church spend more money to kids. We have a budget for kids.

Lacey: Okay. And when did you start going to UNCG?

Donggeum Lee: After give birth to my second son, I took TOEFL test, then I 00:34:00applied. Actually, I wanted to apply graduate school, so I visit the office, graduate school program in the Curry Building. I was interested in the area of public things, so I felt maybe whether I stay here in the United States or go back to Korea, maybe if I study that kind of public administration, public policy, it would be good opportunity to study and get a job later. But the director of the graduate school, she recommend me to take several courses in 00:35:00undergraduate school, because my major is horticulture. That's why it's a different center. So, after the conversation, I applied undergraduate program.

Lacey: How are you liking it?

Donggeum Lee: Before I visit the UNCG, I visited Wake Forest, because I heard that school is good school. UNC Chapel Hill was too far from here, so when I visit the Wake Forest, one professor, she told me try to visit UNCG because it is more diverse and there are many adult students like me. She also said that maybe the class, the ratio and student and professor is lower than Wake Forest. 00:36:00So then I visit here, Curry Building, and I applied.

Lacey: And you're liking doing political science here?

Donggeum Lee: Initially, I did not plan to major political science because I want to just take several courses, so economics, math, and geography and political science related courses because I want to prepare graduate school. Like a general study major. But when I look up the general study, the curriculum is different. So I did not have any option to do it. I had to choose one major if I want to study here as a second degree seeking student. So, I just took one 00:37:00course, whether this is fun or not, that was the American Politics 100. So it was good to understand American culture, political system.

Donggeum Lee: Actually, before I take the course, I did not know the differences between Senate and House of Representative. It was always ... I didn't know why there are two chamber, because this is federal system and one country. But now I understand, and after then, I thought this would be good if I have another second degree in political science. Then I registered more course, more courses.

Lacey: Do you have any favorite classes that you've taken here?

Donggeum Lee: I like the American Politics 100. Because it taught me everything 00:38:00about the America's political system and people's behavior, role of media and party, public opinion, and Supreme Court. Many things happening in the society. So, I always say to my husband, "This is ..." What is that? "Every student, they should take this course if they want to stay in the United States." I like that course very much. I learned many things.

Lacey: When did you take that? That was 2000 ...

Donggeum Lee: '14.

Lacey: 2014?

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lacey: Did they prepare you for this upcoming election at all?

Donggeum Lee: I don't have American citizenship, but now I can analyze any 00:39:00election, the campaign things with my own idea. Yeah.

Lacey: That makes sense. Let's see. What do you think are some of the differences between getting an undergraduate in the United States as opposed to Korea?

Donggeum Lee: Actually, I could see many students, they complain about the tuition and they joined the rally to protest about the tuition things. But when I was in Korea, I paid around $270,000 per semester.

Lacey: Wow.

Donggeum Lee: It's confusing. Yes, $270,000.

Lacey: Wow. So it's way more expensive.

Donggeum Lee: It's confusing. Let me write that. Can I use this?

Lacey: Yeah. Go on the back there. That's fine.

Donggeum Lee: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, two hundred-seven hundred. It's cheaper than now. $2,700. $2,700. But nowadays, students, they pay about $6,000 or $7,000.

Lacey: In Korea?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Per semester.

Lacey: Okay.

Donggeum Lee: That's why UNCG is very much cheaper than Korea. But Koreans, we do not have any national FAFSA, that kind of financial aid, we do not have that 00:41:00kind of program.

Lacey: So that's difficult.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. However, people do not complain. They kind of things about tuition. So many student, they register one or two semester then take a break to earn money.

Lacey: And then go back?

Donggeum Lee: Then go back. They repeat that kind of thing.

Lacey: Okay. That's one way to do it. Are there any differences in terms of the actual teaching? Like in classes? Is classes different? I mean, they're different subjects, so there's that.

Donggeum Lee: I felt the professors in the United States, they are very kind. As I told you, Korean, Asian culture, we have some seniority. We always respect the older people. That's why we do not eat food in the class, we do not ask too 00:42:00much, and we do not complain. For example, when I was in Korea, if professor say one time, we remember. And so this syllabus will go this, this, this ways. But later, one or two more times, we just check.

Donggeum Lee: But here in the experience of UNCG, students, they keep asking the same question again, again, again, again. But the professors, they always answered with good manner. For example, a professor, she posted all the reading materials in the Canvas. But student just complained, "We cannot find where they are." But she said, "It is on the Canvas." Because I used to ...

Donggeum Lee: The Korean culture, I look up the Canvas and print the reading material out and read. But other students, they want the professor showed where it is exactly, so she demonstrate. That's different. More very kind. Also, professors, they spend more time to advise students. But in Korea, not really. And also, in the UNCG, the community and campus provide many good programs. For example, SSS, SSP, TASP, and career center and writing center, speaking center. 00:44:00But in Korea, for example, many students, they failed about math course. We do not have a math center. Very competitive country in Korea, so if you can do it well, you can succeed, but we do not have any assistant program for kind of failure. Losers, for example, we do not give a second chance.

Lacey: We have options here available.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Many good programs and math center, there are PhD student sitting in the math center. They help the students, but now in Korea, we cannot imagine such things.

Lacey: Can you describe for me your first day at UNCG? Do you remember?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah, first day was the day that I visit the Curry Building.

Lacey: Okay, so the first day then you had class then?

Donggeum Lee: Class. Yeah. I arrived a little bit late, the class. Many student was sitting, already sitting on the chair, and I could not find any empty seat. So I sat next to one young man, and since I didn't know the American culture well, I just introduced myself, I tried to talk with him. But now that's a ... I do not do like that way, but at the time, I didn't know anything about American culture. So I asked him, "My name is blah, blah, blah. What is your major? What year are you in?" I asked that kind of things. And American government, that 00:46:00professor, she explained about the curriculum. Not curriculum, syllabus and she teach. Yes, that's my memory about the first class.

Lacey: Okay. Do you have time to any extracurricular activities as a student who has children and stuff?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. I did many things. I'm very curious American culture. I had kind of goal while I study in UNCG. One of them was to actively participate in any activity in campus, but I couldn't do it. But instead of that, in the student government organization, I could get a tutor job in SSS TASP. So I'm a tutor, I tutor at introduction, probability, elementary statistic. Anyway, it is 00:47:00a Statistics 108, the first one. And American Government Comparative Politics. I help the student who study that courses. Then except that, I try to participate in many actives. For example, career centers, their event, how to manage your LinkedIn, that kind of things. Not really any student organization.

Lacey: How do you like tutoring?

Donggeum Lee: It's very good. I can learn about the education system in United States, and different cultures' education system. For example, as a statistic 00:48:00tutor, many student, they do not even know how to solve a problems even the middle school level. That's why I could see the differences in Korean student and American student.

Donggeum Lee: American politic courses, I could see the chart, the length of the national reading and writing and math rank. USA, about 57, 58. But Japan, Taiwan, and Korea, and Hong Kong, those countries are top five countries. And I could see we are example why I have the tutoring session. And about the 00:49:00different culture and learning, I have one tutee, she's from different country. She does not know much about America. Because Korea, we have many chance to study about America because we are friend country. But she's, kind of country is from, many Americans hate that country. That's why she did not know anything about tea party, she did not know even USA was once colonized ...

Lacey: Colony.

Donggeum Lee: Colony of England, Great Britain. She did not know that.

Lacey: What country is she from?

Donggeum Lee: China. She said she never learned such things when she was in that country. But I'm familiar about Bill of Rights, even though before I came to the United States, culture, language, many things. So I can see differences between the people's, sometimes their knowledge is related to their country's education system. But education system is also related to the international relationship and that kind of things. I'm able to see.

Donggeum Lee: Also, I thought Americans, they are all rich. Because America, USA is a rich country. That's our thought. But since I joined, since I study in the 00:51:00UNCG, I could see the real life of American. Some peoples are rich, but some peoples are not rich. Especially this Greensboro city is, even though it is a medium sized city, many people's, their income is not so high. If I look up the income of Greensboro city, it's half of national GDP. So, I learned that every country has the same problem. Some peoples are rich, some peoples are not rich. Some peoples are well-educated, some peoples are not. Every human people's life are same in every country. I realized that.

Donggeum Lee: I have only good and brilliant and good image of USA. But peoples are still live in the area, there is no ... And some people, they do not have car. Yeah, many, some of them, they depend on their food. And the canned food obesity problem. And I learned that sort of things in the UNCG about the hidden ... Not hidden, any social issues and problems that USA have encountered.

Lacey: Do you get along with fellow students and stuff?

Donggeum Lee: No.

Lacey: No?

Donggeum Lee: Because I'm older than them. My generation is very different than 00:53:00their generation. I'm busy, I have to work five hours and seven hours of tutoring and I have to study, I have to take care of my kids, so no.

Lacey: How old are your kids?

Donggeum Lee: First one is six years old, and second one is four years old. They are male, yeah?

Lacey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And they're going to school here?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. First one attend Colfax Elementary School, and the second one, too. Now he's in pre-k program.

Lacey: How are you seeing education system from that end?

Donggeum Lee: Actually, since I did not actively involved in any volunteer position, actually, I cannot see any differences between. Because even though I 00:54:00experienced in the elementary school when I was in Korea, but nowadays they are totally different education system. But since I did not have experience in new system, I cannot compare. Actually, I don't know.

Lacey: Sure. Do you go back and visit Korea at all?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. After graduation, I'm going to visit Korea to see my mom because she's old. She's now 74, 75. A little different. Calculate different way.

Lacey: Really?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. I was born in 1979 in December 29th. After two days later I became two years old. Can you see the differences?

Lacey: Yeah.

Donggeum Lee: I was born in 1979, but after that, 1980, from January 1st, I 00:55:00became two years old.

Lacey: Oh, okay. So, you counted that as a year?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Because we also calculate the months in mother's womb. Babies, they spend nine months. But in Korea, we say 10 months. Instead of nine months, 10 months. Also, we calculate that period.

Lacey: That's interesting. I did not know that. When are you going to graduate?

Donggeum Lee: This December.

Lacey: This December?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah.

Lacey: Congratulations.

Donggeum Lee: Thank you.

Lacey: No, it's a accomplishment. You're going to go back to Korea to visit your mom?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Then I will go back to United States.

Lacey: Are you going to bring your kids?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah.

Lacey: They've never been to Korea?

Donggeum Lee: My first one visited when he was one-year-old, but he cannot remember. The second one is, he's a first time to visit after he was born.

Lacey: That's cool because you'll get to show them Korea.

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. They will love. I think so because Korea is very dynamic, energetic. Yeah.

Lacey: For sure. You're doing political science. Do they discuss Korea in any of your classes?

Donggeum Lee: No, because Korea is very small country. For the class, the comparative politics, the professor mention and teach about Chinese system. And international relation study, that course, a student mention about Japan and ... Oh yes. So few, few students, they mentioned about North Korea's, about their human rights issue but not South Korea. Nobody.

Lacey: Keep going. Do you have any favorite professors here?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. I love all professors. They are very energetic. They have very passion to teach. I like most of them. All of them, I can say all of them. They help me in different ways with different, their characteristic, their personality, and their specialty. However, I like that professor who taught me first. I like her most.

Lacey: Sure. Because it was a good class, it was just a really good experience.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Because that was my first class. She helped me a lot because she said her daughter lives in Japan, she knew the Asian culture. Because she's 00:58:00an army kid, so she traveled many countries when she was young. So she has experience in foreign country and different culture. That's why she understood me a lot even though I asked many things about ... Yeah, she helped me a lot to adjust in new environment here in UNCG, in United States.

Donggeum Lee: Also, whenever I have any things I ask her still ... My husband, he's a minister, but he decided to join the army. Because the professor, she is also army family, I ask her about the life of the army family and her mother's life, because I will be also wife of army. Yeah. So, she explained many things 00:59:00of the life of a army and American and many things. Even though I do not have that army's life yet, I can picture the life and what I have to do in the future.

Lacey: What's her name?

Donggeum Lee: It's hard to pronounce it. Elizabeth McNamara.

Lacey: How do you spell her last name?

Donggeum Lee: M-C-Namara.

Lacey: And Elizabeth first?

Donggeum Lee: Yes.

Lacey: Okay. And she's taught Political Science 100. American Government?

Donggeum Lee: Yeah. American Government and she also teach Comparative Politics 01:00:00and International Systems and several courses.

Lacey: Comparative Politics. What was that last one?

Donggeum Lee: International Systems.

Lacey: International System.

Donggeum Lee: But I took only two courses from her.

Lacey: You only took two? Okay.

Donggeum Lee: From her. A different instructor taught me the-

Lacey: Okay. Awesome. So, you're going to graduate at the end of this semester.

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lacey: You're going to go visit Korea to visit your mom.

Donggeum Lee: Yes.

Lacey: And then what are you going to do after that?

Donggeum Lee: I have no idea. Because I wanted to apply graduate school. However, since my husband, he decided to join the army, now he is reserve army chaplain. But he has to have his chaplain school. He has to finish that one. So, 01:01:00I will stay in the United States with my two sons, and after he finish his training school, then he will change to the active army. Then it means we have to travel the city to city, country to country. So, I don't know what I have to do.

Lacey: Wow. That's exciting.

Donggeum Lee: Yeah, it sounds pretty exciting or not because I don't like ... When I was in college, I visited Vladivostok with the medical team. I helped them, their medical service. Also, I spent a year in Kazakhstan when I was in college, too. In Angel Education Center, I taught English, Korean to Kazakh, [inaudible 01:01:58], Tatar. There are many miner try to still living there in 01:02:00country, so I already have experience in that kind of foreign country and different culture, language. And I live in the United States. So it means I already have experience in different cultures, so I wanted to settle down one country. Even whether it is United States or Korea, in one country. But we have to travel city to city, country to country. So I decided not apply graduate school. So, I don't know.

Lacey: All right. We have got a couple more questions. Then we're essentially done. Okay? So, how do you think you serve UNCG in the Greensboro community?

Donggeum Lee: I'm very totally changed since I joined UNCG. One of the reason that I decide to study in UNCG, because my previous college GPA was not so good. I spent many times, many hours to my CCC organization and church, I spent too much time for that. So, my main goal was to get high, very high GPA, so I did that. So my current GPA is 4.0 out of 4.0. But it totally changed my attitude about the American government and community and church because I studied political science. For example, before I study political science and I just 01:04:00followed the senior professors, their direction and their order because I felt that is good attitude toward the senior. And in Korean culture, I believe that is a good way, good manner, good attitude as a believer to respect your boss or your king.

Donggeum Lee: However, nowadays I have a different view. Church is kind of small country, there's a definitely politics. The pastors, also, if they do not get 01:05:00enough supporting rate in Korean church, then congregation, they just abandoned the pastor. Then they request you cannot work as our pastor. We want to hire another one. That's why many Korean pastors, they're transit very frequently. They stay two year one church, three years one church. It is very hard to their minister in one church more than 10 years. But learned political science. I know how to calculate that. So, yeah, so I planned everything, what skills you have to do to survive that in church. There's senior group, younger group, youth group. What you have to do, the general supportive rate. Even though it is 01:06:00different language, but it's the same. The people's behavior is very same.

Donggeum Lee: Then, actually, even though I used that techniques of what politicians use, but we did not use that too manipulate or disguise that kind of bad things. We had very good faith and we are ready to dedicate the church. But peoples do not know that. That cannot satisfy with them. Like the politicians, to accomplish my ideology and my goal, my vision, the politicians should be elected. Then they have to compromise. Pastors are same. Even though he has very 01:07:00good knowledge of the Bible and the kingdom of God and the why and passion and Holy Spirit, however, if peoples do not understand the higher-quality of that kind of spiritual things, they do not understand, and they just abandon the pastor. But things that my knowledge of the political science, we use that skills in our church. Maybe if somebody hear this interview, they will blame me, but that's true. So we could survive here at this church so far. So this for five years.

Donggeum Lee: However, during five years, 10 pastors left for five years. We are the one pastor stay longest there. Even though they had good heart, they have 01:08:00passion, but peoples do not understand it. Their interests are different. And that kind of that voters, they just focus on their self-interest. But we have our very spiritual goal, but we have to also compromise a lot of things. That's why we have opened the book club. The Koreans, their lifestyle is very healthy, they're very dedicated to their kids. But because of our language barrier, they struggle. They want to teach them, they want their kids to enter the ... What is that? Ivy League, that kind of thing.

Donggeum Lee: They spend more than $10,000 per private tutoring, music, piano, 01:09:00violin, and sports and reading, math. Like that way. That's why my husband, he opened the book club, the discussion things. So the reading list [inaudible 01:09:21] the kids, they discuss in church together and after that session, they go back to their school and they become the leader of each schools' book club leader. Peoples like that. They are not interested in any development and spiritual growth. That's why also we have to compromise such things. That's what I, political science study helped us to stay here, one church, longer than any other-

Lacey: Pastors.

Donggeum Lee: ... pastors. And we contribute to stabilize our church. Also, 01:10:00since I study political science, I can see, analyze what's the problem in the church. And how my husband should react and work. For example, there is one group who do not like us. Do not support us. This is very political. If some group, they do not like us, then they want to spread some rumor. Then we have to protect like politicians.

Lacey: Right.

Donggeum Lee: Then we have to gather our supporters to protect them because usually they, like politicians, the group, they want to work with other leader. That make some tension, increase tension. But I study political science. I can 01:11:00read that kind of intention.

Lacey: Right. And thus protect your supporters and your family.

Donggeum Lee: Yes. But actually, to survive, thing is help our community more stable. And the kids, they could learn about both academic field and spiritual field. I can give good advice to my husband why people acting like that way? What's their problem? What's church's problem? How you act like that? My study in UNCG contribute the Korea community. Also, my husband, he's very dedicated, very honest person. But since I studied political science, he was more, he's influenced by my knowledge, I shared what I learned in this school and decided 01:12:00to the army. He will help the people who have hard time in the army, lost their family. And also, he has a heart, such a thing so, even though I just dedicated two years, two and a half years studying that UNCG, but around my environment, the circumstance, they get benefited from me. I changed my husband's attitude. Nobody agreed with my argument, but I dedicated to stabilize my church. There's just some very severe problem between the denomination and my church. There's some fight. They are not satisfied with fighting each other. Then denomination, 01:13:00American denomination church, they fight both again.

Donggeum Lee: And also, I work as a tutor in tutoring center. But some tutors, like many other tutors, I like to help the students. So sometimes I spend more extra minutes to help them even though I do not get paid for extra five, 10, 15 minutes. I help them if they send me an email about the question, I answer them. I want to they succeed in the future, successful future. Also, I have a internship in the Office of Sustainability in UNCG. I spread knowledge of the 01:14:00sustainability through the media. And I had information desk in the ... What is that? EUC building. Also, I volunteered at World Relief for Wellness for two, three weeks. So I gave ride to refugees to apply a state ID, and I took them to the ... What is that? Human, company. Yes, to arrange the company to apply the position. I don't know how to say. The company that hire people ...

Lacey: Oh, who then work on ...

Donggeum Lee: No, there is many company, requires this job and ...

Lacey: Temp jobs?

Donggeum Lee: Temp job?

Lacey: Temp.

Donggeum Lee: Temp's job?

Lacey: Yeah. They hire people to go and then do little jobs in other places. Is that what you mean?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. Instead of they have to contract directly, the company in between the employer and employee, they get some commission and they employ, yeah. Also, I took the refugees to that center.

Lacey: To the ...

Donggeum Lee: To them. I helped to write their application form. Also, I volunteer Reading Connection, too. So, actively engaged many.

Lacey: Very engaged.

Donggeum Lee: Yes, very engaged. And tutoring job and take care of kids. During the weekends, I work for the church as a Sunday school teacher. I was very busy, 01:16:00so I slept only six hours. Very busy. This happened after I studied in UNCG.

Lacey: Right. All this came about because of-

Donggeum Lee: Right. If I study in the Wake Forest, maybe I did not know any social problems. Any structural problem in the society. But now I'm taking environmental politics, so the instructor asked why you take this course. Many student, they said they live in some city, county, but because of medical waste, their friends, they have cancer. Some cancer, the water quality, that kind of environmental justice, I never heard that kind of words before. But think of if 01:17:00I study in Wake Forest and High Point University, they might not understand why student, they just sleep five hours, four hours. Why they attend the school and work and many things to survive.

Donggeum Lee: Their student do not just feed good luxurious food. Not good clothes. Just the minimum, the life. I learned such things. There are two side of the USA. The rich side and behind the shadow, the other side. I learned such things in UNCG. So, that's why I think such things influenced my husband, and he will be officer. It means, however, many soldiers just graduated high school. 01:18:00They joined the army to get the college tuition. So, I think we can understand more their life, and we can help them because I already experienced, and my classmates, they are busy and they struggle to survive. Their goal is to just Bachelor's degree, not the PhD degree. But later, they would get PhD, but so far, right now, their goal is to survive just ... So, it was good that I take this UNCG. Tuition is reasonable. I got also scholarship from here after I finished my internship. Yeah, in the sustainability.

Lacey: What were your proudest accomplishments here at UNCG?

Donggeum Lee: Yes. One thing is that I will graduate here.

Lacey: Sure.

Donggeum Lee: That's my second degree. And the other one is that my mindset is totally changed. Watched, listened with new mindset. Because many Koreans still think ... I want ... They do not understand why African-Americans lives in like that situation. Also, all the people, they experience segregation and ... What 01:20:00is it? Kind of fathered in law? I don't know. There's a Southern area, there's some ... What is that? They cannot buy a house in that white area because if their ancestor, ancestors, if they had mixed blood in their race, they cannot buy house. That kind of things because there's structural problem. Then all the people, they experienced.

Donggeum Lee: However, many Koreans, they complain about because the reason of they are uneducated, have low-income, because of their characteristic, their attitude about their life. But there's a reason because they want to help educate their kids, but because they could not get good job, it is connected 01:21:00social problems. But since they did not study political science course, they do not understand. They still live in the prejudice, they are narrow-minded. So I think that's the most successful things, that I have new eyes, new mindset. I did many things like volunteering opportunities in the World Relief, Reading Connection, and internship and scholarship. But that's the byproduct after I changed my mindset. Yeah.

Lacey: That's a really good way to think about it. Okay. So, we're doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary, which is an excellent opportunity for reflection but also helps to think about where we're headed in the future. 01:22:00What is the future for UNCG? Where do you see UNCG going as an institution in the next 25 to 50 years?

Donggeum Lee: I can see many foreign student in UNCG because the curriculum is good, and class size is very small. And many good program, the SSS, SSP and TASP and professors, they are very competitive. So, I expect more foreign students will attend this school.

Donggeum Lee: As I told you, my brother-in-law in Korea, he paid a $6,000 per semester. It means many Korean students, they want to study in USA. If they pay 01:23:00a little bit more, then they can get the high quality, very good education system. So, also, if they get a Bachelor degree here in the USA, when they go back to Korea or their country, it means they have more chance to have a job, more better ... What is that? Better salary because they're bilingual. So, I believe more foreign students, they want to study here.

Donggeum Lee: However, that's why UNCG should prepare for such a student. Even though there are many good programs, only few foreign student, they use that kind of services. So, one day during the tutor training session, one of the 01:24:00staff member of the Office of Accessibility Resources, so he lectured about the Disability Act and learning disability. How the office help such a student. And he introduced the Smartpen and programs they offer for student who is struggling to study. So, I ask him about the cultural disability. So he said, "Yeah, but that's not in the law. In the Act. There's no provision, such things." So, I hope UNCG open up course for foreign students that do not give any grade, just a fail or pass, about the general etiquette and manner of American system and very 01:25:00basic information about American history.

Donggeum Lee: For example, that student did not know that USA was colony. It's very simple. Everybody know that. But some student, they do not know. So, if UNCG have that course for foreign student, it would be very good to student and good for professor. Yes. Professor, they have to explain once again, the basic knowledge. For example, when I meet my advisor first time, I knock the door because it's also same in Korea when we, before enter the door. You know? I knock the door. After I came in the professor's room, I closed the door. Because 01:26:00this is .. Usually, professors, they close the door in Korea. That's why, because he's older than me, I wanted to respect him and only help of him, I closed it because I'm younger than him. But he said, "Okay, just leave it open." "Well, I cannot close the door for you?" He said, "No, no. Leave it open."

Donggeum Lee: I couldn't understand why the door should be open. Because it is heating. So if you close the door, you can save energy. And if I want to talk, if I have a conversation, it's quiet.

Lacey: Private.

Donggeum Lee: Private. I closed the door. I couldn't understand why I should ... I felt a little bit cold. But he said, "Just leave it open." This is very basic. 01:27:00I think Americans, everybody knows that. I could not understand why.

Donggeum Lee: Also, one day, I got return paper from quiz. The instructor wrote the check sign. This one. Check.

Lacey: And you didn't know what that meant?

Donggeum Lee: So I thought, "Oh, all these answers, my answer are wrong." Circle is correct and check is wrong answer. I said, "I could not ..." Yeah. That's very simple.

Lacey: So you propose a course that would be for incoming foreign students to learn basic American history but a lot of it's like American culture stuff?

Donggeum Lee: Culture, manner, etiquette, but kind of just not study hard. Just sit down and listen. Because when I was in Korea, we have that such a course. 01:28:00Not for foreigners. There was the foundation spirit of that college and the student collegiate life. That kind of course. That's just a pass and fail course.

Donggeum Lee: One of professor, he told that if you are college level student, how you should manage your time. You are elite. You should be elite. How elite acts, like that. how you can manage your money. For example, many students, they just have a part-time job to pay their, any food and something they need. But the professor said, "Because college period is not the time you just are 01:29:00studying. You should enlarge your eyes, open. That's why you have to ... a small portion of your money should go to the concert and movie and buy a book to read. So try to expand your narrow mindset. That kind of things, good story, and his experience, how he studied in foreign country.

Donggeum Lee: He studied in Denmark and Israel. And how these things contribute, developed in South Korea. Actually, he was one of adviser, President of Park Jung Hee period. And he suggested new village campaign. So, it was very 01:30:00successful. And could be a ... Then could had a very economic development in that president period. But many people just remember that president but actually, the idea is comes from that, the professor. He said, "Knowledge and that kind of thing's important, but the most important one is the mindset. Then I can overcome this situation that" ... And he said, "That kind of change can be performed by consistent education about class." So that course is kind of that course. That's like that. A student who wants to study in the United States, they should learn about Americans to have a successful, their study. Many 01:31:00students, they just join the Korean Student Association and many, many things. But if they want to decide someday in the future in the United States, they will have some trouble.

Donggeum Lee: For example, my church, we frequently visit the urban ministry, regularly visit, but the youth student, they ask my husband, "Can you sign this voluntary hour?" Then I told him why he should sign this paper. You are going to submit this paper to your school. But he said, "It does not matter who signed this paper," but I told the student, "No, this paper should be signed by one of 01:32:00the staff of urban ministry." It means because their parents does not teach where they should get that signature, my husband, he's just, we are volunteer. But to get that hour, the kids should get it from the staff. Even though they are born in the United States, they do not understand American culture. If they keep doing such a way, they cannot ... It would be not good for them.

Donggeum Lee: That's why many Koreans, second generation, even though they have colleague education, they spend several years in the company and they resign, 01:33:00and they open small business like their parents. They don't know how to interact with Americans. They born in Korean culture, raised in Korean community, their friends are Korean. Yeah. So, I think if UNCG has such course, that would be good for foreigners if somebody who wants to stay in the United State or even though they do not stay in, if they go back to their country, it would be good for them. Yeah. To compare the difference that they experience in the USA and from their country. Whether they work or they're work in the academic field, that will enlarge their students, their mindset and opinion.

Lacey: Okay. That's it.

Donggeum Lee: Mm-hmm (affirmative).