Oral history interview with Dr. Jay Poole, 2016

Brittany H.: My name is Brittany Hedrick and today is Wednesday, November 7, 2016. I'm in Parish Library with Dr. Jay Poole, class of 1984, to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection. Thank you Dr. Poole for participating in this project and sharing your experiences with me. I'd like to start the interview by asking you about your childhood. Could you tell me when and where you were born?

Dr. Jay Poole: Sure. And it's December 7, not November 7.

Brittany H.: Oh goodness.

Dr. Jay Poole: Just to be sure. Pearl Harbor Day actually.

Brittany H.: Can you tell I wrote this a long time ago?

Dr. Jay Poole: I was born in 1962 in High Point, North Carolina. I'm definitely a North Carolinian. Grew up in Archdale, North Carolina which is kind of a suburb community of High Point.

Brittany H.: Okay. Could you tell me about your family and your home life?

Dr. Jay Poole: Sure. My parents were both working class southern folks. My father held a factory job, my mom worked in an office for most of her life. I have a sister who is seven years younger than I am, and we grew up in a very modest little home there in Archdale.

Brittany H.: Okay. And where did you go to high school?

Dr. Jay Poole: I went to Trinity High School, which is a little neighboring community there actually in Randolph County. While I was close to High Point, I was actually over the county line in Randolph County.

Brittany H.: All right. And what year did you graduate from high school?

Dr. Jay Poole: 1980.

Brittany H.: Okay. And what were your favorite subjects?

Dr. Jay Poole: Probably the arts. Band, chorus, they were my favorite things. I 00:02:00also liked history. English and literature are more ... certainly not math or the sciences, they weren't my forte.

Brittany H.: Okay. Did you enjoy school?

Dr. Jay Poole: I did, I did. Although I often say to people I accidentally continued my education because I had no intention of going on to school past high school. That really wasn't part of my cultural framework. My intention was to go to work probably in the factory where my dad worked, which was tied to the furniture manufacturing industries of High Point. Really I didn't think about going to college in high school. That just wasn't part of my vision.

Brittany H.: What changed your mind?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well I was in the marching band programs at Trinity High School, which were actually competitive groups. I just found my place there, and that 00:03:00had a lot to do I think with my sexual identity and coming out at that time. I found kind of a group of people that accepted me and supported me. I went on that summer after I graduated from high school to be in a drum and bugle corps up in Pennsylvania. This is kind of like a professional marching band, if you will. And most of the people there who were my age, 18, 19 years old were going to college. And that really made me think differently about what I should do with myself.

Dr. Jay Poole: When I got home, I talked to my mom and she said, "Well maybe you should go to High Point College." So I went there the day before classes started and they said, "Well we would admit you based on your high school grades, except 00:04:00you never took the SAT," which I've never done to this day, I've never taken the SAT. And the admission person said, "Maybe you should go to Davidson Community College and take some courses there, then you can transfer back to High Point. And I had a neighbor who was at Davidson Community College, and I talked to her and I went over there the next day and classes were starting the next and I got into Davidson Community College. So it was really by accident, by default really.

Brittany H.: Okay. Why did you choose UNCG?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well of course when I started at Davidson, I never thought much about going on to a four year university. I didn't really know that much about higher education. When I was finishing my second year, some of my teachers there said, "You should go on for a higher degree, a bachelor's degree." UNCG was just 00:05:00the closest. I had started with the idea that I might be an art major, and shifted that to psychology when I took my first psychology courses. I knew UNCG had a psychology program. That had a good reputation. I applied as a transfer student and got in for my junior and senior year at UNCG.

Brittany H.: Okay. Could you tell me about your first days on campus?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh gosh. My first day or so on campus, I lived on campus in Phillips Hawkins Dorm. I was assigned a roommate who I did not know whose name happened to be Jay also. Incidentally we remained friends to this day, very close friends. I'm his daughter's god father in fact, and I was in his wedding. Two strangers came together and we've remained fast friends.

Dr. Jay Poole: I was scared to be on campus because I knew my identity was different, and I didn't realize at that time that UNCG had a reputation, even then, of being more gay-friendly campus. As I discovered that more I got a little more comfortable, but also I was very in a personal place of staying kind of closeted and I was afraid that my new roommate who I didn't know that well then would find out about me and the guys on the hall and I was just trying to fit in.

Dr. Jay Poole: I actually wound up starting very quickly dating a girl on campus and kind of living a different life than I was used to, because I had pretty much come out my senior year of high school and had been identifying as a gay 00:07:00male, so it was really kind of an odd time when I first got to the UNCG campus.

Brittany H.: Okay. Did you ever feel discriminated against in any of your years here on campus or maybe outside of campus?

Dr. Jay Poole: I don't think I had any personal incidents of really experiencing discrimination. Probably because I was very careful about hiding who I was. I had heard of other incidents on campus occasionally of someone being picked on or someone being harassed in some way. The guys on my hall tended to like me pretty well, and I did have a friend at the time who was fairly effeminate and he would come to visit occasionally and there would be little mild harassment or 00:08:00picking around him being there. But I didn't find the campus to be hostile really in any way, and would later find out that in fact the campus was known for being fairly friendly. Yeah, that was my experience.

Brittany H.: And you said you had to hide who you really were. When did you stop hiding who you really were?

Dr. Jay Poole: I don't think I really did stop hiding that at UNCG 'till I graduated. Even when I graduated I still had my girlfriend up until I graduated. I was not ever really completely open or out on campus. I knew about the PRIDE 00:09:00organization, I went to maybe one or two meetings, but I wouldn't go to that regularly.

Brittany H.: Okay. Were there any areas on campus that you felt most safe? Any popular social gathering areas you recall?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well ... At that time there was actually a store on Spring Garden Street called the White Rabbit Bookstore, and it was a spot where a lot of gay people in the Greensboro community would come to hang out. They were kind of a gay-friendly bookstore, it was before we had Barnes and Noble and all that. I and several students, there was always students down there, that was kind of a spot for folks.

Dr. Jay Poole: In terms of being right on campus, I don't recall particularly any place that people knew about as being a safe gay-friendly place in particular.

Brittany H.: Okay. Do you recall the incident on campus in 1982 when Kenneth Krump committed suicide?

Dr. Jay Poole: I do very very much so, yes.

Brittany H.: And how did this make you feel?

Dr. Jay Poole: I knew Kenneth a little bit. I didn't really know him well, but I knew him to some extent, I knew who he was. That night actually when he did that, I was coming in with some friends from the gay bar, local gay bar, and we pulled into the area right around the library. The roads are different now and I don't even remember the name, but we could see the library clearly and there were firetrucks all around it, and we knew something had happened. The next day 00:11:00when I heard about what happened I was really upset about that. The campus was upset about that.

Dr. Jay Poole: I think there was a story that ran in the Campus Weekly at the time, or the Carolinian, yeah. It was a very upsetting thing to think about that. And I heard rumors from a few of my gay friends on campus that he had been really harassed on his hall where he lived, and that really was disturbing. I think that probably kept me very concealed. It certainly didn't bode well for being open on campus.

Brittany H.: Were you involved in any extra-curricular activities? I know you said you weren't really involved that much in PRIDE.

Dr. Jay Poole: Right.

Brittany H.: Any extracurricular activities you were involved in?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes. I participated a lot in the choral programs here at UNCG, and of course there were a lot of gay males and probably females and gay friendly people there in the arts areas. I was also involved with a dance team here. At the time there was a professor in I think it was in recreation or kinesiology maybe, and he was from Brigham Young University, and he was on their folk dance team. He started a small folk dance team here and I participated in that. There were just a few of us, and the girl I was dating was actually involved in that too, so that was kind of our thing that we did.

Brittany H.: Cool. What was your favorite class or your favorite subjects here at UNCG when you first started?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh gosh. You know the very first thing that comes to my mind, 00:13:00interestingly, is animal behavior with Dr. Cheryl Logan who's now retired, she was just such an intriguing person and professor. She was fairly new to UNCG at the time and I was fascinated by the whole notion of animal psychology and actually got really fired up to do some kind of Jane Goodall work and that kind of thing, which I didn't follow through with. That was really an influential thing for me here. And the arts programming. The choral programs, I was involved with a couple of different groups including the show choir. My senior year was Dr. Bill Carroll's first year here. He had come in place of Dr. David Pegg who I had had before. Actually David didn't have his doctorate I don't think at the 00:14:00time, but anyway, they had started a show choir and I was involved in that. Those were really meaningful experiences for me.

Brittany H.: Okay. And what was your major?

Dr. Jay Poole: Psychology.

Brittany H.: Psychology, yes okay. Did you ever change majors while you were here?

Dr. Jay Poole: I didn't.

Brittany H.: Okay. And what did you do for fun? I know you were involved. Anything else that you did?

Dr. Jay Poole: You know interestingly and I guess relative to sexual identity this is important, I was sitting here thinking about it. During the week, I would be involved in the choral stuff and the dance thing and I would hang with some friends and guys on my hall, we were all friendly and we would go to the caf together and all that. But on the weekends, I would sort of disappear, and I would disappear to my gay life, if you will. Because my girlfriend was on 00:15:00campus, remember. I would "go home" and I would be out at the club or wherever on the weekend, so kind of my alter identity if you will, was during that time. I actually was seeing a guy also during this time, and I would see him a lot on the weekends.

Brittany H.: Okay.

Dr. Jay Poole: This was the '80s.

Brittany H.: What were some of the clubs that were in Greensboro that you would go to?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well interestingly, the office here on campus where financial aid just moved out of, and I think human resources just moved into right over on Spring Garden, I don't remember the name of that building, that was a gay bar in the 1970s and early-1980s.

Brittany H.: The financial aid office?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes. Was a gay bar, yes.

Brittany H.: Wow. Is this before they had put up the-

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes, UNCG didn't own it at the time. The campus didn't even extend out that far at the time. I would come in high school to that bar and sit in the parking lot with a couple of my friends from high school so we could see other gay people. There was such a novel thing in that at the time. That bar actually had shut down by the time I was on campus here at UNCG, so the local bar was called Wham, which was later called Encore and then Warehouse 29, which just recently closed. That's kind of where the gay community gathered. The Q Lounge which is still down on West Market Street across from Greensboro college was actually a bar at the time, but then it shifted, it wasn't that popular so 00:17:00really where we went was Wham or later Warehouse 29.

Brittany H.: Okay.

Dr. Jay Poole: And on the weekends I would go to South Carolina a lot to Colombia because there was a big gay bar there.

Brittany H.: Oh okay. You were talking about the residence halls. Could you elaborate a little about that? Where you lived and if you ever moved and what it was like to live in the residence halls.

Dr. Jay Poole: Well I was assigned to Phillips Hawkins Dorm, which is kind of down at the end of the row of dorms, past where the quad is. It's been redone of course since I lived there. At the time it probably needed to be redone, so it was fairly basic. I lived on a floor with all males. In fact the whole side of 00:18:00our building was male, and then the other side was co-ed I think by floor. There was a real sense of a masculine identity there in the dorm, which I think is part of my being secretive. Although I got along well with my suite mates and my roommates of course, and the hall mates I guess you would say. For me, it was a positive experience. I know some people have very negative experiences in dorms, but I lived there my junior and senior year, same room, same roommate, same guys. We all sort of stuck together and really became our own little community. It was a really positive experience for me. Nothing elaborate of course, but very positive.

Brittany H.: Okay. And what did you think about the dining hall food?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh gosh. Back then the dining hall food was hit and miss for sure. The dining hall, it's funny for me to go in there now because I see just the remnants of how it used to be. There used to be four halls that were all connected by kind of a central hub, and I can't remember what the names were but everybody kind of went back to the same one and occasionally you would change. There was one, this is very interesting, from a race perspective. There was one that was mainly frequented by people of color, mostly African American students at the time, and that was kind of avoided by many of the Caucasian or white students. It was interesting, there was some segregation that was evident as I really think about it back in the day. For all I know, it may be that way now. 00:20:00It wasn't the open space that we see now with all the remodeling there, it was very kind of separated into four halls. And the food was like I say, kind of hit and miss.

Brittany H.: Are there any social or academic events that stand out in your mind during your time with UNCG?

Dr. Jay Poole: Speaking of Jane Goodall, she actually came to campus I believe it was my senior year, and was awarded an honorary doctorate. She had started doing work with the North Carolina zoo, which was still fairly new at the time, with the chimpanzee exhibit section. I remember going to a presentation that she gave, and oh my gosh I was just mezmerized. She was just awesome. If you've 00:21:00never heard her speak, you should hear her speak. That really stands out to me.

Dr. Jay Poole: Also, there was a university concert lecture series was going strong at the time. Don't even know if we still have that now, but we had some great performing artists come to campus. One was Itzhak Perlman. I remember going to see him, the violinist. Oh it was just awesome and it was just a packed house in formerly Aycock Auditorium. I guess arts events kind of things. Some of those lectures. Yeah, those would be the two mainly that stand out for me.

Brittany H.: Were these events open to the public? I know I've heard that the music department is becoming more inclusive with the greater Greensboro community.

Dr. Jay Poole: Right. The concert lecture series were, yes. Now the music 00:22:00concerts, I'm not sure they were closed to the public, but I don't remember the public really participating a lot when we would do a fall concert or a spring concert or whatever in some of the choral stuff I was in. I don't remember that being particularly billed as a public event. It may not have been closed to the public.

Brittany H.: Yeah, okay. Are there any other professors that made an impression on you that you'd like to talk about?

Dr. Jay Poole: Let's see, well Anthony DeCasper over in psychology was really a great teacher and a great researcher. I think he was a pioneer at the time in a lot of work around prenatal psychological development and breastfeeding issues. 00:23:00So he was really great. And then Dr. Harter, Russell Harter I believe was his first name, there's a tree planted for him over there at Eberhart building. He was a great psychology teacher as well. I remember really learning a lot from him and enjoying being in his classes.

Dr. Jay Poole: Probably the most influential person honestly, even though I didn't know her very much, but our interactions led to me going on to be a social worker, is Dr. Yolanda Burwell, who I think is now retired. She left UNCG at some point and went to East Carolina. But she was in the new social work department at the time, the bachelor's program. And my senior year I just stumbled into introduction to social work as a course, and she told me at the 00:24:00time that I was going to become a social worker and that I needed to come back and get my master's degree in social work. I thought, "Uh, right, I'm not coming back to school. This is it." I didn't even plan to go to school to start with, much less come back. Low and behold, 14 years after she told me that, I did come back to school and got my master's in social work and now am a social work professor. It was really foreboding, her words to me and her influence with me.

Brittany H.: That's awesome. What year did you graduate with your bachelor's in psychology?

Dr. Jay Poole: 1984 I graduated in psychology, yep.

Brittany H.: Then what year did you come back to get your master's?

Dr. Jay Poole: The rumor was even when I graduated, and Dr. Burwell actually said, "We're getting ready to start a master's in social work program and you 00:25:00need to think about that in the next few years." And actually it took about 14 years for them to get that program started, because it's a joint program between North Carolina A&T, and UNCG. It's very unique in that way. Actually I applied for admission in 1996 and the program was supposed to start, but actually it was delayed for a year, so 1997 was when I started and graduated in 1999, it was a two year program.

Brittany H.: Okay. During that waiting period, did you think to maybe go get your master's in social work somewhere else?

Dr. Jay Poole: No I really didn't. I had actually gone to work about six months after I graduated with my psychology degree, I found a job at the Public Mental Health Center down in Randolph County, which is where I'm from. And I was 00:26:00working in the substance abuse treatment area at the time, that was my introduction to human services. And at that point in time in North Carolina we did not have social work licensure, so I through the years moved up into social work positions, they were classified as social work positions, but they didn't really require a degree, and there wasn't any licensure that had come about until 1993. And actually when the licensure laws passed in North Carolina for clinical social workers, I was grand parented in under those laws, so I became a LCSW, a licensed clinical social worker, before I had a master's degree. Now to get that credential you have to have a master's degree.

Dr. Jay Poole: My supervisor about 1994, '95 my supervisor at the time said to 00:27:00me, "You need to go back and get a master's in social work." And I said, "I'm not going back to school, why? There's no need for that." She said, "If you don't go back, I'm going to demote you and I'm going to reduce your salary." And I said, "You're kidding." We were friends, and she said, "No I'm not kidding, I'm very serious." So low and behold again, I was forced into going into school, and I'm so glad she did that. To this day I thank her for that, because I don't know that I would have tried to pursue a master's in social work, and I think had I not I would really have been left behind professionally, knowing what I know now.

Brittany H.: Yeah. What did you do after you obtained that master's degree in 1999?

Dr. Jay Poole: I had done an internship, part of that program was doing 00:28:00internships, and I had done one with Randolph County Mental Health where I had worked all those years. My area director at the time had told me, "Once you get your master's, we'll put you into an administrative position here." So I went back to work for them as a quality improvement specialist and did administrate kinds of work. However, in the year 2000, North Carolina started reform process, they called it, for mental health. And without getting too into the weeds with that, the public mental health system in North Carolina was transformed into a privatized system. And my job was not going to be kept, so I was trying to figure out what was next for me. I actually took a leave of absence, I went to Charleston South Carolina and did interior design with a friend of mine for the 00:29:00summer. But that was such hard work I came back and I worked on contracts. The mental health system was transforming, and that led to an invitation to come and teach adjunct in 2003 for the master's in social work program, the joint master's in social work program between UNCG and A&T.

Brittany H.: Okay. Did you ever get a doctorate degree?

Dr. Jay Poole: I did. I taught starting in 2003 as an adjunct and actually there was a faculty member, a fairly newly hired faculty member who left at the end of 2003, and I was offered a full-time contract for one year in 2004 to teach in the social work department to cover the courses. That led to an effort on the 00:30:00faculty's part to try to get me into a tenure track position, but the dean at the time said I needed a PhD. Once again, I was forced back into school to get a higher level degree, and I started that PhD in 2005.

Brittany H.: Okay. And who was the dean that pushed you to get a PhD?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh I probably shouldn't ... well yes, it was actually a good thing. It was Laurie Sims at the time, yeah.

Brittany H.: Okay, all right. You started the PhD in 2005 or you-

Dr. Jay Poole: Yeah, I started that. I had shopped around to kind of feel out what was going on with programs, did I want a PhD in social work, did I want something different. I opted for a different program. I actually had a friend 00:31:00who was a social worker who had started this program, and I had a mentor in the social work department who advised me to look into the ELC program with school of education here. That's what I decided to do. My PhD is in educational leadership cultural foundations. That's the program I did and I worked very closely with Steve Shapiro and the other faculty there.

Brittany H.: When did you finish that degree?

Dr. Jay Poole: I graduated in December of 2009.

Brittany H.: Okay. And then you just came right back to the campus to work?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yeah. What had happened was while I was working on that degree, I remained under contract with the social work department as a visiting assistant professor. And I was teaching, and I had started actually a research agenda even though that wasn't a requirement, but I had done that. And I worked on the PhD 00:32:00and when I got the degree in hand, they opened up a search and of course it was a national search, very competitive, and I was part of a pool of 15 applicants for that position and was selected ultimately to be the candidate for that tenure track position, so I started that.

Brittany H.: Okay. Was it hard working towards a degree and teaching at the same time?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh yes. I look back on that sometimes and I think, "I don't know how exactly I did that." But yeah, it was. It was a lot. Because I was teaching basically three classes a semester, and then going to class myself two classes a semester, and of course all the writing and the reading that went along with the PhD courses. And then I would go to summer school as well. It was quite a heavy load, yes it was.

Brittany H.: Okay.

Dr. Jay Poole: I'm not going to do it again, I can tell you that.

Brittany H.: Well I guess you don't have to. You're done.

Dr. Jay Poole: I don't have to, that's right.

Brittany H.: Did you ever come out to the faculty in your department?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes, yes. In fact when I came for my MSW program, I was fully out. In my personal statement I talked about that. That was never ... it wasn't hidden at that point at all. I definitely have been out on campus through my graduate school time. And the same in the PhD program, in fact my dissertation is based on examining internalized shame for males who identify as gay. I really actually used my own identity as part of my scholarship.

Brittany H.: What was the environment like for LGBTQ faculty members here at UNCG?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well I would say back in the early-'80s I know there were LGBTQ 00:34:00faculty members here. I don't remember his name, but I remember there was a guy in anthropology that was kind of known around campus as being out. There were of course my choral professors and arts people and who knows how many other folks, but it wasn't discussed. It wasn't talked about, there wasn't an open forum for it at all.

Dr. Jay Poole: In the '90s when I came back for my MSW, there was more of a sense of openness on campus I think. I think there was ... I don't think there's ever been a faculty organization for LGBTQ faculty, but there were certainly people who were very much out and visible on campus including me ultimately as I 00:35:00moved on.

Brittany H.: Do you ever feel that you were defined by others solely by your sexuality?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes sometimes, sometimes. I would say that would only be though for people that know me at a fairly surface level or who believe that I can offer something to a discussion around identity issues and I can sometimes be a token gay male. There's some tokenism there, but I don't really have a strong sense of that. That's not how I totally see how things are. I know that exists and I understand why, but most of the time as people get to know me more, they see that I'm a much more well-rounded person and that sexuality is just a part 00:36:00of my identity.

Brittany H.: Okay. In what ways has the environment changed since your arrival?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well oh gosh, the UNCG campus in the early-1980s was not the place it is now. The campus I would say has doubled if not more in size, in terms of property acquisition and that kind of stuff. The aesthetic of the campus is really remarkably more improved, beautiful. I think we have a beautiful campus now here at UNCG, and I wouldn't say that was so much the case in the early-1980s. It wasn't ugly, but that just wasn't emphasized, campus aesthetics.

Dr. Jay Poole: I think environmentally the whole sense of openness and 00:37:00inclusivity at UNCG's campus has improved. There is a great diversity of people here on campus, that's evident as you walk around and as you start to know people it's even more evident in terms of all kinds of differences, not just race or sexual identity or that kind of thing. Much more subtle and nuanced identity issues.

Dr. Jay Poole: I think to me, there's a real sense of positive progressive motion with UNCG, with a few setbacks now and again. Over time I really feel like the campus is a very welcoming open kind of place.

Brittany H.: Okay. And that was actually my next question I was gonna ask you, if you thought UNCG was inclusive and accepting.

Dr. Jay Poole: Yeah, I do. Now, could we do a better job of that? Yes, always I think. Because identities are so deep and there are so many facets to that. But yes, I would say as we start to ... especially if we compare to other campuses or other communities even, this community, UNCG's community is very inclusive and open and makes an attempt to be that in a challenging geographic space. We're in the south, we're in the heart of North Carolina, we have some real challenges with being a progressive open campus. And I think in light of those challenges, we've done a really good job overall as a campus.

Brittany H.: I wanted to ask you a little bit about politics. What was the 00:39:00political atmosphere on campus like in the '80s and '90s?

Dr. Jay Poole: Hmm ... well I think there was ... I don't have a sense that in any of those times in the '80s and '90s there was this notion that UNCG was some ultra liberal hotbed place. I think there was a mix of conservative and maybe more liberal ideas at the time that kind of floated around. It certainly wasn't viewed as conservative by any stretch of the means, but it felt like there was more a mix up of things, a mixture of political ideals. Compared to say now when 00:40:00I feel like UNCG is probably more politically progressive than some of the other UNC campuses, and certainly regionally maybe a leader in the region in that regard, despite some of those challenges.

Dr. Jay Poole: It's interesting though when I think about that, the PRIDE organization on campus is believed to be one of the oldest in the country, established somewhere around 1978 or so. Or '68. '68, '78, I can't remember exactly. '78 I think it was. You know, so there's always been this vein of 00:41:00openness around sexual identity on campus, and it certainly was there in the '80s. I was aware of it, it was not hidden at all. PRIDE was never an underground organization, it was always very much open. So I think maybe there was more of an openness or a progressiveness than I was really tuned into back in the '80s and '90s.

Brittany H.: Okay. I'm glad you mentioned politics on campus today, because I wanted to ask you about the larger issues in the nation like the supreme court ruling in favor of same sex marriage, the passage of HB2 in North Carolina and this most recent election. How has that affected the campus as a whole, and how has it affected you personally?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh gosh. Well in my PhD program, I was exposed to a lot of very 00:42:00progressive philosophers, got to read some progressive philosophers, so I'm intellectually stimulated by the back and forth that we're seeing in the politics of America these days. You know, we just saw something really remarkable in this presidential election cycle where we had a huge number of people energized and charged up about a radical candidate, Bernie Sanders, and we had a huge number of people charged up and energized around a very reactionary candidate, Donald Trump. So those are kind of at two opposite ends 00:43:00of the spectrum, and I think if you look at the energy around both of those candidates and where it cross-pollinated, because there were a lot of people I think that would maybe have gone for one or the other, you know? And found common ground between those two. That to me, if you look at Foucault for instance, as a progressive marker for society, I have a sense that we're grinding forward as a society with where we're headed. Will it be painful and arduous? Yes, I think it will be. And I think that's what we're experiencing now. We've got kind of a reactionary voice that is out in the lead right this minute, but I don't think that other voice is going away. I don't think the 00:44:00radical idea, the radical way of looking at things is disappearing anytime soon.

Dr. Jay Poole: I think we're in a really interesting fascinating time. I think we're also in a potentially dangerous time, because it creates volatility, you know? We as a society are really deconstructing what has been our political structure for the last 40 years or so, and we're trying to reimagine what that's going to be. Nothing is permanent, and I think there's gonna be movement. And here's what I base this on, this is tied to state politics, because house bill two, which was mainly crafted around this notion of transgender people not using 00:45:00a bathroom that was different than their birth sex, it really was literally about sexual identity down to sex organs, and our governor was defeated over that issue. And our governor, if you will, former governor now, was a reactionary politician with a very kind of right-wing voice, and that's been defeated by the same people who elected narrowly Donald Trump as President of the United States, also defeated a governor that spoke the same kind of language. And a lot of that had to do with economy.

Dr. Jay Poole: I think there is really a fascinating space there to look at how 00:46:00progressive ideas seem to prevail in the end. People got so energized around house bill two, this campus got energized by it. If you had said to me five years ago, "Oh the thing that's going to impact state politics the most is transgender issues," I would have laughed at you and said you're crazy. Nobody cares about people who are transgender, they're still invisible, you know? Well that rose very quickly to the forefront of political discussion, and ultimately the defeat of the governor of the state, who by the way I just found this out yesterday, is the very first governor in the history of North Carolina to not be reelected as a governor who ran for reelection. There have been governors who 00:47:00only served one term who didn't run for reelection. This is the very first one who's run for reelection that was defeated. That's huge. That is huge. That all gives me hope personally and energizes me to say there's a lot of room for growth and expansion and change and deconstruction here.

Dr. Jay Poole: The fact that people can be legally married who are same sex is something I never believed that I would live to see. I never believed that. I imagined it, but I never believed I would live to see that. And now I've actually done it myself, I've married my partner, and that is just profound, profound that we are at that point so quickly. Because remember, when I first came to this campus I was underground and I was sneaking around in the parking 00:48:00lots of gay bars as a high school student trying to just see another gay person. Now I can actually marry one. That's huge.

Brittany H.: I'm really interested to hear about what you recall from those days. The ruling of same-sex marriage, what do you recall on campus the day that that happened or the passage of HB2, what do you remember about the atmosphere on campus or the most recent election that the next day on campus, what was it like for those three things?

Dr. Jay Poole: Okay. If I'm remembering correctly, the gay marriage supreme court decision, was it handed down during the summer months? I can't remember exactly.

Brittany H.: Yeah it might have been.

Dr. Jay Poole: But regardless, I recall among people that I know on campus who are gay and gay friendly people who are quite numerous on this campus, a real 00:49:00sense of just disbelief and joy that this had happened. Remember two years before, this state, the people of this state elected, voted and passed an amendment to the constitution of the state forbidding gay marriage. By 60% of the people who voted on that, amendment one. So two years later transcend to the Supreme Court saying that's illegal and unconstitutional was profound, it was just a joyous thing and just an unbelievable thing.

Dr. Jay Poole: House bill two, I think there was a real sense of anger and 00:50:00frustration and a real sense of things being exposed. I remember people saying, "Oh, so this is how it operates. A midnight session that got pushed through this legislation in 11 hours." This was just unprecedented kinds of legislative action. And people were outraged about that. And then especially when the fallout started to happen around artists not coming to the state, businesses pulling out of the state, the loss of dollars, the revenue, that was just outrageous for a lot of people obviously, because they didn't elect the governor that enacted this bill. I think there was a sense of anger and frustration and a real sense of the wool being pulled up and seeing clearly what was happening.

Dr. Jay Poole: With the presidential election, and as you and I know because we saw each other that day after the election, the atmosphere on campus was pretty dismal. Which speaks to how progressive this campus actually is. And I think people realized that that voice, that reactionary voice and those ideals represented there are not silent. They're still very much alive and they're still very much in play in terms of power. It was just really hard I think for people. I think it was emotionally hard, there was a lot of fear in our department, there were classes canceled because students were afraid to come to campus. You know, it's been really eye-opening difficult few weeks here. And as 00:52:00we see things unfold with people who are being selected for the cabinet and those kinds of things, I think again we're challenged, we're frustrated. But we're energized. There's a lot of energy around it. Social media is very reflective of that right now. You see a lot of energy around what's happening with this reactionary voice that's in power now.

Brittany H.: I wanted to talk a little bit more about the department of social work. Are there any faculty members that you work with that really stand out to you?

Dr. Jay Poole: Oh gosh, I work with some great faculty. I really do, that's one reason I love being here. Our chair (Melissa R. Floyd-Pickard) is just great. 00:53:00She is very similar to me being raised in kind of a working class southern family, and so we have some commonalities with that. And being a first-generation college student and that kind of thing. And she is just a real ... Her leadership style has evolved to be very inclusive and transparent and sort of a coaching kind of style. It's just very refreshing.

Dr. Jay Poole: A few years ago the department had some rough couple of years with just some leadership issues and faculty not really finding a good sense of how everybody fit and that kind of thing. I think a lot of that has resolved 00:54:00itself. I think that stands out, our chair.

Dr. Jay Poole: Then there's a long-time faculty member there. I think he's now in his 35th or 36th here at UNCG, and his wisdom and his voice is just really strong. He can be provocative, which is part of what you're supposed to be as an academic, and it's really refreshing to be able to work with people that are like that.

Dr. Jay Poole: Several of the folks that were my teachers in my master's program I now work with as colleagues, and it's really interesting to be on that side of things with them and to know them as a colleague and not just an instructor.

Dr. Jay Poole: The department is really committed to social justice and to 00:55:00issues around social justice and really working with people, communities, individuals, groups, that's a huge commitment. We do a lot of community-engaged work. Our students are very energized around helping other people, working with disenfranchised populations, understanding the dynamics of policies and politics and how that impacts social justice issues and social work issues. It's where my heart is. So it feels really good to be able to do even the tedious work. We're currently in the process of planning a PhD program and I'm involved heavily in that. It's very tedious work but it's also very rewarding to think about how we can take another step and become the second PhD in social work program in North Carolina.

Brittany H.: Would you say that is really the biggest change that you've seen in the department over the years is the adding a PhD program?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes, I would say probably from an academic perspective. And that kind of flows out of the addition of the master's program, which did take an incredibly long time to hammer out, because it is this joint program between the two universities, which is not an easy thing to do and maintain. The master's program has been very successful having run continuously since 1997 when it started, and I was in that first class, and I've seen all these subsequent classes graduate. Now we have alumni all over the world, certainly in North Carolina and regionally we have very important people in the social work 00:57:00profession are alumni of our program. That's really nice to see that.

Dr. Jay Poole: But then now taking that next step in terms of that educational continuum and going into the PhD area I think is a great endeavor for the department.

Brittany H.: Could you tell me about the types of students you've had in the department over the years? Anything you remember.

Dr. Jay Poole: We have an incredibly diverse group of students that come to social work as a major. I would venture to say that we're one of the most diverse departments on campus, even though I know our campus is actually very diverse itself. We have a lot of very well-spoken, well-read committed 00:58:00passionate people that come into social work. They're very much about helping others, and that's great.

Dr. Jay Poole: Social work is a "woman's" profession historically. We have seen more and more men come to the profession, and I'm really happy about that. I think there is a great place for men in the social work profession, and our program has really made an effort to try to be inclusive of men.

Dr. Jay Poole: I'm just thinking of different people who've graduated from the program that are now strong leaders in different ways. We have a person who has been a lobbyist at the legislature and is now the executive director of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill North Carolina chapter, and it won't 00:59:00surprise me if he is not running for office soon. We've just got folks in all different ways of practicing social work.

Brittany H.: Okay. And how have you served beyond UNCG in professional organizations or in the community?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well part of my commitment professionally is to service. I have worked quite a bit with different community agencies over all the years. Currently I am the chair of the board for the Partnership for Community Care, which is an organization that does a lot of healthcare management for complicated and complex cases, particularly around Medicaid health issues and mental health issues. I have been the chair and am still on the board for clients rights, human rights at a large mental health organization here in the 01:00:00triad area. I've been involved with the AIDS organizations in terms of work with the boards, doing volunteering kinds of work. I have done some work with the interactive resource center. One of my grant projects is putting students with community nurses, community-based nurses and they serve people who are homeless, immigrants, refugees. I've got a lot of kind of hands in the community, if you will.

Brittany H.: Okay. What are some of your proudest accomplishments or contributions during your time here at UNCG? Is there any work or project or research that you've done of which you are particularly proud?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well you know I guess the proudest thing I have in my academic 01:01:00time is just the fact that I've done it. Because as I mentioned earlier, I had never set out to become an educated person. Higher education was not part of my culture. So to actually hold the doctorate degree and be part of an academic community is really ... sometimes when I think about I think, "Why am I here? How did I get here?" Because that was not part of my trajectory as a 17-year-old high school student. In terms of specific projects, there is a book that I'm a part of. It's called Queer South Rising, it's an edited book and there's several 01:02:00folks around the county, particularly southern region folks who have strong voices and I was selected to be a part of that book. My chapter in that book is called Redneck Sissy and I really focus a lot on the intersections of being a working class southern white person and a person who identifies as a gay male whose been in some respects identified as sissy. I really feel like that's a piece that's out there that's important for people. Yeah. Just the fact that I'm here is still really interesting to me.

Brittany H.: Okay. How has attending and working at UNCG, how's it impacted and affected your life? What does UNCG mean to you?

Dr. Jay Poole: It's interesting, this is a joke obviously but sometimes I'll say 01:03:00to people I'm sort of like mold, I just keep coming back to UNCG. You can always find me around here. And it is true. When I was very first on this campus, it was so different and weird to me to be a part of this big institution. And here I am, I'm still a part of this institution. In some ways I feel like I am a part of the community of UNCG, the evolving community. I've been around this campus now for a long time actually, and I think UNCG's unique place in the world is so, so important for a couple of different reasons, and this is why I think UNCG is so unique. It serves a lot of first-generation college students just like me 01:04:00who never really thought much about going to college, but wound up here because it's the local college, and low and behold has turned out some pretty significant folks into the world. And I think UNCG offers a place in the heart of North Carolina for academic exploration.

Dr. Jay Poole: In the south, in a state that has been known for lots of different things, one of which being the state with the largest membership in the Ku Klux Klan, to have UNCG here and to have it the most diverse campus in the system, to have it being known historically as a gay-friendly campus, that's pretty incredible. I'm really proud to be a part of that, and I feel committed 01:05:00to it. I really feel a sense of commitment here at UNCG.

Brittany H.: I did want to ask you about the chancellors and how you feel about the chancellors that we've had over the years. There's been chancellor is it Moran?

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes.

Brittany H.: Then Chancellor Sullivan, Chancellor Brady, and then the new chancellor Franklin Gilliam. What do you think about the chancellors? Do you have any memories of interactions with them? I know the new chancellor is very popular.

Dr. Jay Poole: Yes. I don't have a particular memory of Chancellor Moran. I don't know that I was really tuned in that much to the role of a chancellor as an undergraduate here for just two years finishing my bachelor's. Chancellor 01:06:00Sullivan seemed to have a great mark on UNCG with the expansion of campus, the aesthetic improvements to campus. I hear and I kind of have experienced her hand in all of that, making the campus look like it does today I think was significant. I think Chancellor Brady continued that, and of course Chancellor Brady I would say for the good or bad of it, however you want to look at it, expanded the campus across Lee Street essentially. That is something that she did. I think while there's certainly, like I say, different sides to that story, 01:07:00we're becoming a viable presence out there on Lee Street, UNCG is and I think that's significant, and I think challenging.

Dr. Jay Poole: Then our new chancellor, I think he brings this real sense of charisma and an aura of wanting to really be more progressive and more engaged. He demonstrates engagement I think, so I'm real excited about that, because that's at the heart of what I do too is stay engaged. In fact my pedagogical philosophy is based around engaged pedagogy.

Brittany H.: I know I've been here since 2010, and I do not remember ever getting an email from a chancellor for Thanksgiving, so that was really cool.

Dr. Jay Poole: Yeah it was, it was. I think he's respectful of celebration and 01:08:00of the meaning of celebrating things. I also found his email around the election time very meaningful, to be reflective and respectful and I think that's important.

Brittany H.: Well we're doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary of the university, which is a great opportunity for reflection and it helps us to think about maybe where we're heading in the future. So what do you think the future is for UNCG and where do you see UNCG going as an institution in the next 25 to 50 years?

Dr. Jay Poole: Wow, just imagine that, I won't get to see it 50 years from now. I think UNCG has this real connection to being a teaching institution as well as 01:09:00a scholarly institution, but I hope and I think that UNCG will hold onto that core teaching mission to really educate people. And I don't mean just school people, I mean help expose people to different ideas, different approaches, different ways of thinking and different people. That's such a huge teacher in and of itself. I think the commitment to diversity, the commitment to being inclusive is so important and I hope UNCG and I think UNCG is on a path to continuing that as we move forward.

Dr. Jay Poole: We're gonna see changes in the United States in that time. We're again, if we go back to Foucault, Foucault talks about power as a web and 01:10:00there's this back and forth. Anytime one part of the web is active, so is the other one. This pushback from the right is going to result in a pushback from the left and we're going to continue to see this power back and forth, which is how progression happens. I think UNCG can be a player in that, and I see that the campus will be a player in that.

Dr. Jay Poole: I hope UNCG maintains its accessibility. And what I mean by that is UNCG is small enough that it feels like a connected campus. If you go to some larger institutions, sometimes you don't even go to parts of the campus ever while you're there. Here you tend to get around the entire campus, and I hope 01:11:00that continues for UNCG.

Brittany H.: Okay. I don't think I have anymore formal questions for you, but did you have anything you'd like to add about your time here at UNCG or any other experiences you would like to mention?

Dr. Jay Poole: Well thank you for doing this. I think this is a great endeavor. I think voice is one of the most powerful things we have in our world. Having voice to experience is really important. A lot of people have come to UNCG for their education, and they've left with an education, and I'm one of them. I attribute a lot of my desire and passion for learning and for working with other people and helping other people and watching my own family participate in higher 01:12:00education, I attribute a lot of that to UNCG because it inspired me. So I think that is huge, and I'm very thankful for that, I really am.

Brittany H.: Okay. Alright, if we're done I'm gonna hit the stop button. Thank you so much.

Dr. Jay Poole: Yeah.