Oral history interview with Ethan Hutchinson, 2016

Brittany Hedrick: My name is Brittany Hedrick and today is Wednesday, December 21, 2016. I'm in Jackson Library with Ethan Hutchinson, class of 2006, to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection.

Brittany Hedrick: Thank you Ethan for participating in this project and sharing your experiences with me. I'd like to start the interview by asking you about your childhood.

Brittany Hedrick: Could you tell me when and where you were born?

Ethan Hutchinson: Sure. I was born in 1982 in Monroe, North Carolina, which is a little southeast of Charlotte.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay, could you tell me about your family and your home life?

Ethan Hutchinson: Sure. I was born into ... I'm the oldest of two children, I have a sister. Who's a year younger than me and my parents had a house in Monroe, North Carolina. My mom was working for JC Penney, and putting my dad through college at UNC-Charlotte. When I was about seven, we actually ended up moving to Charlotte.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, when I was in middle school, we ended up moving to the triad area. My mother is actually a UNCG graduate also, so we always had some sort of conceptualization of what UNCG was. I remember eating hotdogs at Yum Yum when I was five or six years old, and then when we got a little bit older, she would take us to Tate Street Coffee and let us get coffees and have the college student UNCG experience to get us thinking about going to college.

Brittany Hedrick: Gotcha, and what did your parents do?

Ethan Hutchinson: My mother ... actually both of them ended up being accountants. My mother was taught business for a while when we were really young and my dad was a CPA, and as they've gone through their careers, they both moved into more strictly accounting for particular industries.

Ethan Hutchinson: My dad is an accountant for a company that genetically modifies sunflowers, and my mother ... it's sort of like a regional operation's 00:02:00manager for a local real estate agency.

Ethan Hutchinson: So they've had interesting careers.

Brittany Hedrick: Yeah, and so where did you go to high school?

Ethan Hutchinson: I went to Southwest Guilford High School, right up the street in High Point, North Carolina.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay, and what were your favorite subjects in school?

Ethan Hutchinson: Math. My favorite subject. I was on the math team and went around and did math competitions and things like that, and went all the way through calculus and statistics, because those things were offered at my high school. Then beyond that, physics, which is really math. Those were my favorites in high school.

Brittany Hedrick: Cool, okay. And did you enjoy school?

Ethan Hutchinson: You know at a certain point in high school I stopped enjoying school so much, I started to come out as a lesbian person between my junior and 00:03:00senior years in high school. Probably towards the end of my junior year, a smattering of friends started to know.

Ethan Hutchinson: The faculty at the school and the students at the school had some thoughts about what that meant coming out in the '90s in the South as a lesbian identified person isn't necessarily easy, so I think I experienced some more overt bullying but maybe actually more covert just a general shunning.

Ethan Hutchinson: I tried my best to really continue to enjoy school. I used to do this weird little thing, where I'd take stickers to all of the teachers in between class change and tell them, "Thank you for staying in schools and off the streets", because I thought it was ironic that they were trying so hard to get us to stay there, but I could see why they might not wanna stay there.

Ethan Hutchinson: So it started to get a little bit miserable towards the end and actually I enjoyed my job. I was a camp counselor at the YMCA, and that was 00:04:00sort of the bright spot in my world.

Ethan Hutchinson: My parents like said, my mother was real interested in getting us interested in going to college, and about my junior or senior year in high school, I started thinking, I don't really wanna do that thing called college. If this experience I'm having in high school is what an educational experience is like, right. Where there's this shunning, or some of this overt bullying. Then I don't really wanna continue forward in this. Where things are going well is in this job over here, so maybe I'll just work.

Ethan Hutchinson: My parents sort of laughed in my face about that, and I have distinct memories of this was back when college applications were on paper. So I have a distinct memory of sitting at the kitchen table with tears just dripping out of my eyes onto the essays I was writing, and they must've let me into all the colleges, because they could see the tear drops skewing my words.

Ethan Hutchinson: It turns out that I ended up getting to college and realizing 00:05:00that there were lots of ways to show up in the world, lots of ways to think about the world and not everyone particularly not in a collegiate academic setting was going to be concerned about the fact that I identified as a lesbian.

Ethan Hutchinson: So you could hear my voice and you could hear me saying lesbian, so obvious at some point in time, I found enough of a support system to feel like I could transition.

Ethan Hutchinson: So it's been at this point nine years since I transitioned.

Brittany Hedrick: So you did have a strong support system at home?

Ethan Hutchinson: You know, until I transitioned I did. My folks, my mother and my father did not do so well with the transition. My sister actually did an excellent job. She's been my number one advocate the entire way through and the second that either of my folks use the wrong pronoun or the wrong name, she 00:06:00would be the first to tell them that was incorrect.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, my father is still not on board, but my mother has certainly gotten there and it didn't take her very long at all things told.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay, so you chose to attend UNCG.

Ethan Hutchinson: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brittany Hedrick: What year did you graduate from high school?

Ethan Hutchinson: I graduated from high school in 2001, and I attended actually NC State University for one year, and then transferred to UNCG in 2002.

Ethan Hutchinson: It got to NC State and it's a gigantic institution, and thinking about being that person that was sort of fragile and sort of skeptical about educational experiences to begin with. It was just too many folks, I felt like a number, and again, I knew a lot about UNCG and I was still working for the YMCA when I was home on breaks.

Ethan Hutchinson: I had a friend who was at UNCG in the recreation parks and 00:07:00tourism program that we worked together at the Y, one of my most respected colleagues at the Y at that time. And she said, "You know NC State has this program too." And I said, "Well I don't really like NC State very much, so UNCG has this program too." So I talked to some other folks I knew at UNCG, I'd started paying more attention to it, and it was just my mother's alma mater, you know, and decided to transfer in my sophomore year.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay, so could you tell me about your first days on campus?

Ethan Hutchinson: Oh yeah, cast my memory back.

Brittany Hedrick: Just to clarify, when did you arrive? Like what year was it when you came to UNCG?

Ethan Hutchinson: 2002.

Brittany Hedrick: 2002, okay.

Ethan Hutchinson: 2002 was my first year, 2002-2003 academic year was my first year.

Ethan Hutchinson: So, you know it's just so interesting to continue to think about all the connections I've had through all of my life with UNCG. My parents 00:08:00actually got married in the alumni house and my dad's best friend, best man in their wedding actually has a few properties over here across Aycock Street.

Ethan Hutchinson: He helped his father build back in the '50s. I called him up, Jimmy Waynick, we call him, I called him up and I said, "Jimmy, you got any houses I could rent from you? I'm starting at UNCG and they're just a five minute walk from campus right on Brice Street." He said, "I sure do."

Ethan Hutchinson: So I ended up moving into the house on Brice Street that summer. So I was actually near campus before classes started, but I have this vivid memory where I feel I was almost light and airy, and skippy walking down Walker Avenue, up towards the UNCG student recreation center, my first class was gonna be in the Health and Human Performance Building, it was early in the morning, and the sun was coming up and I had my coffee in my hand. I just felt 00:09:00kind of bouncy and everything was so green in this area. Students were saying, "Hello", you know were just being nice and saying, "Hello."

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember walking having been at NC State and people kind of ... you walk into the office and they're kinda like, "What do you want?" You know "Student, what are you here for?"

Ethan Hutchinson: And I remember walking into the Recreation Parks and Tourism office and saying, "I'd like to declare, I'd like to be in this major, how do I do that?" And she said, "We'll you just did it, I just need your name and ... we're a really small program, only 120 students and tell us which of the three concentrations you're interested in?" And I was interested in Leisure Services Management.

Ethan Hutchinson: She was just so helpful. I remember sitting in that first class and listening to those faculty, I think it was Donna Jeffers-Brown, just excited about recreation, and the possibilities that it offered to folks. So 00:10:00those are some of the things I remember about my first days on campus. Just sort of the wonder of how nice everyone was, how green everything was, and you know just excited to be here.

Brittany Hedrick: What was ... your major was in recreation? Can you repeat the department name again?

Ethan Hutchinson: Sure, I was in Recreation Parks and Tourism with a concentration in Leisure Services Management, is what it was all called back then. I know they've gone through some name changes at this point.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay. So what was your favorite class in this department? In your major what was your favorite class? Or just in general?

Ethan Hutchinson: Yeah, there were a few classes that were pretty important to me. My grandma thought that my degree was in camping.

Ethan Hutchinson: So that's the joke I tell people, but that's not at all true. What was the most meaning full to me about almost every class I took in that 00:11:00major was that experiential learning was such a valuable piece of it. So we were required to do for almost every class I took somewhere between 10 and 20 hours of community service work.

Ethan Hutchinson: I volunteered with ... what's the name of that organization downtown, where I actually was learning sign language interpretation to help folks who were deaf engage in recreational activities.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember one class, my senior capstone class, there were hot topics in recreation, right, we each had at the beginning of the semester, write down three things we would be willing to on the spot just stand up and talk about in recreation.

Ethan Hutchinson: One day I showed up to class, and it was motivational and camp settings I think, how to get campers motivated to do things. I started talking 00:12:00about all the aspects of what you could do and this is just a testament to the students that were in my class and the faculty.

Ethan Hutchinson: I started talking about motivational ways in the morning to get campers invested around some sort of common activity or purpose, like a morning assembly and singing songs, and just getting their bodies up and moving and excited.

Ethan Hutchinson: A buddy of mine in class said, "What's your favorite camp song, Ethan?" I said, "Oh of course I'm a nut." And he said, "Well then sing it for us."

Ethan Hutchinson: So I'm up there clapping and singing and the whole class start clapping and singing. You know we're seniors in college, we're supposed to be a little big surly but everyone was really into it.

Ethan Hutchinson: I have some of those memories. I remember one of the things that has always impressed me about UNCG is I've gone and worked at other universities and colleges, there's some sort of class and at least in all of the majors or programs of study, I was a part of that prepares you to actually go out into the field. You're not just doing the theoretical work, and you're not 00:13:00just doing the experiential work. But, also here's what a resume looks like and here's what an interview looks like.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember one of my professors walking in one day and say, "Okay, I have all of your resumes." Because we had, had to turn them in. She flips through one, and she says, "Trash." Another, "Trash." Another, and she's just throwing them in trashcan, and she says, "For every typo I see, that's a person that doesn't get a job."

Ethan Hutchinson: It sort of blew our minds, she was being sweet about it, but it sort of blew our minds, you know she was like, "So we're kind to you here, this is where you're making mistakes and but we gotta get you all really to get out into the world." I remember that was a distinct memory of mine.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then I had another class where I got to design a park. We did a site visit, to a park out 220, and walked all around this empty plot of land, there was nothing on it. Then had to go buy topographical maps over at the little print shop at Spring Garden Street and had to make five versions of that topographical map. One that showed the elevation change, one that showed where 00:14:00we would put different facilities, and we had to write a justification paper for why we would put those particular facilities.

Ethan Hutchinson: So it really all the way through, how do I work with the most vulnerable population to who need access to recreation services, and how do I build a park literally.

Ethan Hutchinson: All of that was hands-on. I threw ... some of my capstone requirements were to throw end of year celebrations, where I was the MC on the mic and leading adults through obstacle courses. It's really a major in which playing is important.

Ethan Hutchinson: Those were, you know. I can't say enough nice things about the way that, that program helped me and then I mentioned earlier Donna Jeffers-Brown was a faculty member who was really important to me and UNCG has a leadership program that runs through, or at that time it did, that ran through the Recreations Park and Tourism Department, it was RPT 201 and 401, and 00:15:00students had to apply, but since RPT was willing to support the class they got to pick two students a semester that went into the class without the application process.

Ethan Hutchinson: Donna Jeffers-Brown identify me as someone, and I had no idea I had leadership talent whatsoever, I had no clue, I didn't know anything about ... I'm just trying to go to college.

Ethan Hutchinson: She said, "I think you'd be good for this class, I wanna stick you in it." That class taught me a lot about you know. I mean just what is a mission statement? What is a vision statement? How does the university function? If you wanna make change on campus, who do you have to talk to?

Ethan Hutchinson: I really started thinking about the structure of the institution I was around, which is why I ended up coming back here for my Masters in Student Personnel Administration in Higher Education.

Ethan Hutchinson: So, that's a little bit of an answer.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay, and so you came back to get your Masters in what year?

Ethan Hutchinson: 2008.

Brittany Hedrick: 2008, so you graduated in 2006 with a bachelors and then came back in 2008. What did you get your masters in again?

Ethan Hutchinson: Student Personnel Administration in Higher Education.

Brittany Hedrick: Wow, okay.

Brittany Hedrick: So obviously you were here for a while. What did you do for fun?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... well fun, well I had a lot of jobs that's for sure. You know I worked for the student recreation center as a front desk assistant and weight room manager.

Ethan Hutchinson: I worked for the Health and Human Performance building as a building manager. So in the evenings I worked in the equipment room and shut the building down as students and faculty were leaving.

Ethan Hutchinson: I was the president of a couple of different organizations, one ... including Pride, the Pride organization for two years, I was the president of that organization, and then the business manager for that organization. And involved in a few other organizations.

Ethan Hutchinson: And then for fun outside of that, I suppose I was sort of a normal college student. I hung out with my buddies, and we had barbecues, and we 00:17:00had bonfires in the yard. We probably got into some silliness. I got a dog, we'll she's 12 now, so in 2002 or 2003, 2003 I got a dog. We used to take her over to the Guilford College lake and let her swim around. So I had a lot of cross references with students from Guilford, we did some projects together.

Ethan Hutchinson: Since I'm from the area ... I guess I knew my way around, so on the weekends we were always going hiking or camping, or doing something like that, Stone Mountain, Pilot Mountain, that sort of thing.

Brittany Hedrick: Any social or academic events that stand out in your mind?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... I remember throwing Pride Prom when I was the president of Pride, and I did not go to prom in high school. My high school specifically indicated that tickets could be sold either individually or you can get a discount for buying a ticket as a couple, but couples could be same sex couples only. It was announced over the intercom, every day for every year that I was in high school during Pride season ... Prom season.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I just never went. I just said, "forget that", and I remember my mother looking at me and saying, "You might regret this when you get older". I said to her, "I doubt I will regret this when I get older." I don't have any regrets about that because then I got to UNCG and I got to throw a prom and we did it ... what's that house downtown? The Blandwood Mansion? Is that 00:19:00what it's called, the carriage how's downtown?

Ethan Hutchinson: We rented out the carriage house and threw Pride Prom and I went to Goodwill where I bought all my clothes and I bought myself a bright, I wanted to look like UNCG. So a bright yellow button down shirt, and then a bright blue with yellow stipes, or a plaid blue and yellow plaid blazer.

Ethan Hutchinson: That's what I wore to Pride Prom, my mom came over and took pictures of me and the woman I was dating at the time. We did it just like a prom, and most people did. We had a photo booth set up and folks did ... we had a DJ and I remember a lot of students coming up to that and saying I never got to have one of these when I was in high school. I never got to have this experience. I never got to dance who I wanted to dance with. You know, I never got to show up wearing the clothes that I wanted to show up wearing, and so thank you so much for having this event for us. That's one that certainly stands out.

Ethan Hutchinson: UNCG Homecoming, the year that I was on homecoming court, stands out in my mind, I remember that at the time Pride was the only organization on campus who had never put forth a candidate, an organization at the time had to sponsor a candidate for homecoming court and Pride just never had it.

Ethan Hutchinson: For a while, institutionally that's because we had never been invited and we decided we don't have to be invited, we're an organization on campus, and we're gonna put someone forward and the pride organization, I was no longer the president, or maybe I was the president at the time. But, they came and said we'd like for you to be the one to do this. I said, I don't know nothing about ... I don't know anything about ... they said, "We're just gonna put your name down, we're gonna write a little bio for you, whatever we're gonna do it." I said, "Okay."

Ethan Hutchinson: Again, I called my mom and I said, I gotta do this homecoming court thing that I'd never done in my previous educational experience, and this 00:21:00in my mind really does change the way I thought about an educational experience.

Ethan Hutchinson: There were two times when you had to be dressed appropriately and one of those times was to be presented at the soccer game, and another one of those times was to be on stage during actually homecoming weekend when they announce the king and queen. She let me get a women's pant suit to wear for the presentation on the soccer field, and then we found a dress for me to wear, a floor length dress for me to wear on stage, and my father was my escort.

Ethan Hutchinson: I had gotten burgundy pant suit, and burgundy dress, and then we got burgundy ... I had short, short hair, short, short blond hair, I dyed it blond and spiked it up all the time.

Ethan Hutchinson: So we got burgundy hair goo, so I burgundied my hair, my dad wore a burgundy tie to match me. And I remember standing on that stage and 00:22:00thinking, "I don't belong here", just looking at all the other women, who were on the stage, who all came from Greek life or something like that. Clearly their mother's had not done their makeup for them.

Ethan Hutchinson: My mom had done my makeup because I had no idea how to do any of that business and thinking, "I don't belong here."

Ethan Hutchinson: But then, there being so many folks in the crowd, not just friends of mine or folks from Pride or things like that, but administrators who knew me, who came up ... vice-chancellors who came up to say, "We're just so glad that someone from Pride, thank you for being here and for doing this." That shifted my ... "Okay, maybe I do belong here."

Brittany Hedrick: Anything else you wanna mention about that experience? Just, that is so cool.

Ethan Hutchinson: Well you might should also ask Megan about it tomorrow because she was on campus activities board at the time, so she was the one counting 00:23:00votes and she might tell you how many votes I lost by, but I believe it was only two or something like that, it was a very close race that year.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember a woman named Liza won, I think you could do your research and you'd probably find out.

Ethan Hutchinson: It's funny the things that stick in your memory. She was a very kind person. I appreciated her as a student. I remember that homecoming is always around Halloween, so they had put pumpkins out for some reason, I remember going home with like three gigantic ... walking down the street with like baby and her watermelons, like me in my fine dress carrying these pumpkins down the street because one of those administrators was like "We gotta get rid of all these pumpkins you want some?" I was like, "Sure", so then me and my buddies carved pumpkins later that night. It was an interesting little perk.

Ethan Hutchinson: That moment for me was really about the way that my family was able to show up. My father being my escort was pretty interesting because I 00:24:00hadn't come out to my ... I came out to my mom my senior year of high school, but I didn't come out to my dad, until my freshman year of college when I was no longer living in the house, because I had a feeling I knew how that was gonna go. He had picked me up for my cousins wedding in Raleigh to drive me back to Greensboro my first semester at NC State, and as we're in the car that's where your child is the captive audience and he always took advantage of the captive audience and he said, "Your mother tells me ..." Because I didn't even come out to him, my mother had done it for me.

Ethan Hutchinson: He said, "Your mother tells me you think you're gay?" And I said, "Yeah, I am. Not just think, but I am." He said, "Well I think that's a big mistake." I said, "Well I don't understand that line of thinking." He said, "Well how would you feel if I told you my mother ..." My grandmother, his mother, "If you came home for Thanksgiving and said, has she met any nice boys down there in NC State, I said, "Well no, but she has met some nice young girls" 00:25:00how would that make you feel?" And I said, "Well Dad, I think that would be a mistake on your part, because that seems like you're just trying to make trouble. And I don't really appreciate it." I told my mom about it, and gave him a big whop for it, and he was never that rude to me again.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, it was meaningful to me that he was able to turn enough to see the value in participating in something that is totally a hetero-normative thing to participate in. I mean my male father, me and my female ... was escorting me. But, that he could put aside the fact that, well I guess what he had to do was put aside the fact that this was meaningful for Pride and for you UNCG in another way that he was in essence at that point was a part of LGBT history at UNCG and he was able to do that.

Ethan Hutchinson: In my recollection that's part of what's most meaningful and I do believe that right after we got done, we went over to Yum Yum's and had a 00:26:00Coke-Cola and two hotdogs, that's all I wanted. They said, "What you want for lunch?" I said, "Yum Yum's"

Brittany Hedrick: Now you're making me want some Yum Yum's.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm gonna have to go get some after we leave here.

Brittany Hedrick: Alright, so you mentioned Pride, were you involved in any other extra curricular activities?

Ethan Hutchinson: Yeah, I was the President of the Recreation Parks and Tourism Association also, so the group for the major. I participated in whatever the environmental studies club was. The socialists tried to get a hold at some point in time, but they were too pushy, I couldn't do it.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm trying to remember ... I served on a lot of advisory boards, advisory boards to the chancellor and things like that. Lord, I'd have to go get the resume.

Brittany Hedrick: I'm not sure when Safe Zone was created. Were you a part of that?

Ethan Hutchinson: Yeah, I was, through the wellness center. I assisted them with 00:27:00creating and presenting in the Safe Zone trainings. It started before there was Safe Zone, Pride, the student organization would offer, Lord, I mean anything about the way students do things now that I'm an administrator, I'm like, "Oh goodness, what were we doing?" But, we would train students that were in the Pride organization to go sit in front of classes so a professor could approach our organization and say, "Could we get a panel of students to come and speak?" We ad hoc did that for a few years until the wellness center put together a safe zone training.

Ethan Hutchinson: I think that was Jeanne Irwin-Olson initially did that, and maybe Jason Robertson assisted with it.

Ethan Hutchinson: We were doing that for a while and then an administrator noticed that we shouldn't put this burden on the students, so as they were building that safe zone I remember assisting them with it a little bit.

Brittany Hedrick: Could you elaborate on what Safe Zone is.

Ethan Hutchinson: Sure, Safe Zone is a training program, workshop program, for predominantly faculty and staff who go for some amount of time to learn about what LGBT is or means. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, who might identify that way, and specifically what the experience of our students might look like on this campus as they show up in your office or in your classroom. What some of their needs might be that's different than our students who identify as heterosexual, cisgender or straight.

Ethan Hutchinson: Faculty and staff go through the workshop, the training to get some sort of a certificate and can opt into I believe having their name on the website, so that students can see.

Ethan Hutchinson: Can either put the certificate up in your office, students can see it's ... LGBT students or a group of students who are always looking around 00:29:00the room to look and see if you even know that we exist. So you have that little Safe Zone placard in your office, and we're like well at least you know something.

Ethan Hutchinson: And/or we can go look at the list online and see who my ally is in this particular area of campus B, so that when I go to that office I know to ask for X, Y, or Z person.

Ethan Hutchinson: Does that answer the question?

Brittany Hedrick: It does. Thank you.

Brittany Hedrick: Were there any places on campus that you felt most safe? That you think were safe zones?

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm just remembering. I'm a pretty boisterous out loud, out proud person. There's moments I remember, I always felt a little sheepish walking through campus holding my girlfriend's hand.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, there were a few moments for instance, one moment where I was walking through campus holding my girlfriends hand and another young woman 00:30:00stopped us, a student stopped us and said, "I just wanna tell y'all that I see you all the time on campus, and you're so sweet to each other, and you're so kind, and you're such a lovely and cute couple."

Ethan Hutchinson: That shocked us, that someone would stop and say a nice thing to us, because we always felt a little ... deviant walking through campus holding hands and we might not at night, walk through campus holding hands, we would only do it in the day, when there were tons of people around us to see.

Ethan Hutchinson: My safe zones were with the faculty and staff who knew me and who I knew well. So I've mentioned Donna Jeffers-Brown a few times, and the Recreation Parks and Tourism Department, but also Nancy Gladwell and Leandra Bedini, and Charlesena Stone all fantastic faculty members and Recreation Parks and Tourism who always, always, always included some elements of diversity in 00:31:00every single class that they were teaching and so brought up LGBT people and encouraged me to think about, and my classmates, my heterosexual cisgender classmates to think about ... I remember the conversation at that time thinking about if you're gonna run a family program at your camp, or at your recreation site. What does family mean? And how do you indicate to LGBT folks that it means them too, right? That their families are also welcomed.

Ethan Hutchinson: Which seems like such an arcane thing to think about at this time, but then it felt cutting edge so I'd sit in that classroom and hear somebody talk about families in all sorts of ways, gay people exist too, and think that's a safe space. This faculty member is a space for me.

Ethan Hutchinson: Or the wellness center, where the safe zone was coming about. So places like that ... and then of course off campus the safe spaces for LGBT 00:32:00folks were bars, right, that's where our people have historically communed Time Out Saloon was the lesbian bar in town when we were in college, and so it's got a little linoleum, got 80 year old linoleum floor duck taped down dance floor. But, that's where all the lesbians would be on the weekends dancing and singing karaoke, and that sort of thing.

Ethan Hutchinson: I was thinking, there were a few times when, like I said I'm boisterous, so national coming out day, I always made us do something even though it's usually right before fall break, and no one's paying very much attention. The pride office had two gigantic rainbow flags and I would tie them around my neck and then run through campus telling people I was the Pride Avenger with the rainbow cape flying behind me skipping around, and jumping 00:33:00barefoot. I guess I must've felt pretty safe if I was willing to run through campus with my spiky hair and my rainbow cape.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, there were a few night events that we were run, where I think we felt like if we were in force, we'd be safe, so we used to do queer capture the flag, where we'd go right out here in the quad between the library, and what's that stone building? Or McIver, and in that big area and use College Avenue as our dividing line. You know that's kind of a safe zone and on one side is your team and on team is my team, and we'd go hide our flags and run back and forth. There would be 80 queer students running around at seven or eight o'clock at night stealing each other's flags and running through with rainbows.

Ethan Hutchinson: I think that ... when we had critical masses, we also felt safe, so we often did have critical masses.

Brittany Hedrick: Could you elaborate a little bit on what the environment was 00:34:00like for the LGBT community when you arrived, did you ever feel discriminated against at UNCG or possibly outside of UNCG?

Ethan Hutchinson: Oh I'm sure I did.

Ethan Hutchinson: You know, we've all has those experiences where ... I mean I remember ... I'm pulling it together for you Brittany.

Brittany Hedrick: You're fine.

Ethan Hutchinson: ... I have memories of times, when I was here as an undergraduate student I had not transitioned yet, so I identified as a dike or a lesbian the entire time, 2002 to 2006, while I was here. But, people mistook me as a man all the time, because I dressed in such a masculine fashion and had 00:35:00short hair. It wasn't my goal at the time to look like a man.

Ethan Hutchinson: My goal was to wear the clothes that I thought looked good on me and the clothes that I thought looked good, and to look like I wanted to look.

Ethan Hutchinson: Although, I guess I did bind a little bit, but that was because the clothes fit better if you did.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember a few times ... where I'd stand on... there was one time where I was standing on the side of the road I think trying to cross Aycock to get to class, and a car full of young white men, slowed down and stopped next to me and said "Hey, those sunglasses make you look like a faggot." I said, "Thank you."

Ethan Hutchinson: And then they drove on, luckily, they didn't stop, it was the middle of the day, so I got lucky I think on that one. But, little things like 00:36:00that and then people mistaking me for a "sir" a lot and having to correct and say "I'm actually I guess a ma'am".

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, folks didn't know a lot about anything that had anything to do with trans-identities at the time. So to see someone that was so extremely masculine even though I identified as a woman, a lot of administrators, people who employed me on campus, didn't get it and didn't understand. But, they had such a good enough relationship with me that they felt like they could ask and so there's a little bit of homophobia and transphobia embedded in that, but it was good natured and good meaning and for the purposes of understanding.

Ethan Hutchinson: I do remember one particular administrator, I had this conversation about she was sort of like "If you're a woman, how come you don't dress more like a woman?" I was like, "Well, these clothes are what presentation-wise make me feel comfortable when the world interacts back with me because I was telling her a story I think about where somebody called me sir." 00:37:00She was like, "That's an easy fix." I said, "No, it's not an easy fix for me. It's obviously not an easy fix for the rest of the world either." So we were having a little debate about that.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, incidentally I also worked for her when I was a graduate student and was actually transitioning. She had been one of the people that had interviewed me for homecoming court, and so she remembered distinctly all this ... how direct and firm I was about how proud I was to be a woman who was masculine, right, and she said, "So now what are you doing? I thought the point was to be a woman who is masculine."

Ethan Hutchinson: So people just not understanding the trajectory. A lot of what happened during those days is if you were the student who was lesbian or gay or bisexual, you were the expert. The institution at that point had not yet put its 00:38:00resources into institutionalizing support for these students. So there's no dedicated staff person on campus. For example, it was a long time before we got one of those, and then it was part-time at best. I wasn't even here anymore by the time we got one of those.

Ethan Hutchinson: That's discrimination in a structural level, not at a direct you and me as two human beings level, but structurally UNCG had not decided institutionalize support for this group of beings, which means that the students had to do the work, and that was true when I was here as an undergrad, and that was true when I was here as a graduate student. As a graduate student I was the one running around and doing educational workshops and lectures about what it meant to be a trans-person and that's difficult to do particularly when you're at the beginning of your transition, because you don't even know everything about what it means to be a trans-person. So people as questions, like "I dunno", you know.

Ethan Hutchinson: I haven't had that experience, I don't have any idea. So things like that would happen. I never experienced physical violence at UNCG as 00:39:00an out lesbian or trans-person. But, every once in a while people make comments or get confused, or the university itself doesn't quite understand how it shows up in your life and it needs to be reminded and told and that's true everywhere.

Brittany Hedrick: In what ways do you think the environment has changed here?

Ethan Hutchinson: You know we used to joke and call it UNCGay, I don't know if you've ever heard that, anybody say that. But, we used to pride ourselves as students for being one of the most LGBT friendly campus, we had the most LGBT students in the UNC system. Nobody had as many LGBT students, so UNCG had a reputation, and I think it probably started out as a negative reputation, but we 00:40:00took it on as a positive reputation.

Ethan Hutchinson: Walking around as an undergraduate student, I remember we'd see each other, even if I didn't know you, there are markers and indicators that one wears on the body that are subtle clues. That would have been subtle clues to us. Like, "Oh you might be LGBT, you might be gay too right?"

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, as I walked around campus, these days or as even though I was walking around campus as a graduate student sort of two things would happen. One, I noticed more discernibly identifiable trans-folks, there was only one trans-person I knew when I was an undergrad at UNCG, she showed up, she was a part of Pride and I remember I mistook her pronouns in front of an entire room full of people as the president of Pride, she did not take that well at the time. And I didn't get it, I didn't understand, I had not really been exposed to 00:41:00what a trans-identity was at the time.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm from the south, and I say, "Yes ma'am", and I say, "Yes sir" which is a gendering thing to do. She said something in group, and I was taking notes, and I remember not even looking up, just saying, "Yes sir" because I heard the voice and just responded to the voice. And she said, "If you ever call me ...", I don't remember what threat she made, but she made a threat, and it really shook me. I hadn't realized that I could also be discriminatory within my own group.

Ethan Hutchinson: The question you asked though, I promise it comes back around to something was-

Brittany Hedrick: Oh, just how has the environment changed?

Ethan Hutchinson: The environment changed, so I think that she probably had a very particular experience that I perpetrated. I was the president of Pride and I perpetrated that particular experience, negative experience for her and now I 00:42:00see, I tell my students where I am here at UNCG or at UC Santa Cruz all the time.

Ethan Hutchinson: There's the internet, you all can find all sorts of things. Even when I started transitioning in 2009, there was Google search FTM and there was nothing. Now, there's Tumblr, and there's blogs, and there's YouTube channels, and there's Facebook groups, and there's you know on Instagram, I can follow FTM's with tattoos if I want to. So I think the visibility for the community is a lot greater. I see when I walk around. I see trans-identified students on campus. Some students I assume I see are trans, and I don't know.

Ethan Hutchinson: That's changed, I think that our visibility in general it's not just us noticing each other, it's the rest of campus noticing us.

Ethan Hutchinson: I think that the institution has decided to institutionalize 00:43:00support for LGBT students through a position and that is an excellent step. I think that one of the interesting things, being old guard LGBT is I think of myself as a dinosaur these days, but another thing that's interesting is some of those indicators that we would of warned to notice each other are just mainstream and everybody wears them now.

Ethan Hutchinson: The mainstream culture picked up on queer culture and said "We want some of that, y'all look cool." So all the students to me, I'm like, "Lord, I don't know what any of y'all are doing." But, there's also so many other ways to identify.

Ethan Hutchinson: Students have figured out that it's not just lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans, right? Students are coming out as pansexual, and omnisexual, and intersex, and asexual, you know there's an entire ace community. So I think that students even within the community are being more generous with one another than perhaps we experienced.

Brittany Hedrick: I did want to ask you, what made you decide to transition?

Ethan Hutchinson: So, I graduated from UNCG in 2006, with a degree in Recreation Parks and Tourism. Then I immediately started attending Greensboro College for a masters in elementary education and teaching elementary school in Ramseur, North Carolina, at Ramseur Elementary School. I determined that if I was going to teach at such a rural elementary school in North Carolina, then perhaps I could not show up looking like a dike anymore. That, that wouldn't be in my best interest, and perhaps not even in my students best interest.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, that it might cause a commotion in the community among the parents, and I just didn't want that for the students. So I went out and 00:45:00bought, my mother helped me, skirts and kitten heels, and women's shirts and bras, Lord forbid with underwires and padding, and I grew my hair a little bit, I learned how to use a flatiron and put on mascara and eyeliner, and that's how I showed up to work for a year and a half.

Ethan Hutchinson: For the first year, I just did it full-time, I just dressed in women's clothing all the time to work, out of work. Then that got really miserable. I didn't feel comfortable and so for the next year, I was code switching. I was getting up at four o'clock in the morning, getting dressed in one particular way, going and teaching all day, looking that particular way. Getting off work at 3 or 3:30, driving home to change into masculine clothing 00:46:00and then going to my classes in the evening where all of a sudden my colleagues in the class were like, "Wait, you look very different."

Ethan Hutchinson: So I was living a double life, and that was the first time in my life I understood what depression was personally. I had folks in my life I knew had experienced depression but it was really a depressing experience for me. I was sad, it was hard to get out of bed, I didn't wanna hang out with my family.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember that year I declined a lot of family events, birthdays and thanksgivings, and things like that. I withdrew from my friend group a little bit and it was really the experience of having to live a life in a way that I was not.

Ethan Hutchinson: Like I said, I bought a binder, and bound my chest a little bit towards the end of college because I had a friend who was like "You might 00:47:00enjoy this." She bound her chest and said, "This might work for you with your clothing style." I missed binding, I missed the way that my body looked and so I started doing that in the evenings and it got even more bifurcated, the brain starts to do weird things.

Ethan Hutchinson: I also wasn't happy as an elementary school teacher. I went into elementary school teaching because I thought that having been a camp counselor that was a good age group, but it was in a camp setting. It was not in a classroom setting.

Ethan Hutchinson: There were a lot of things going on. Then I started to meet other trans-people during that time that I was teaching elementary school and realized that the reason that I was doing this switch in the evening is because my psyche was rejecting the femininity, the socially constructed way to be a woman.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then I started thinking, what is this thing about being a woman even. I'm binding my chest, and I was getting more and more frustrated with expectations and roles. How you're supposed to be. More and more frustrated with at family gatherings, I was in the kitchen with all the women cooking, I still love cooking. That wasn't the issue, the issue was that it was specifically because I was a woman, and things like that.

Ethan Hutchinson: I grew up in a house where my sister could build a house right now, if you say go build a house. My family, my parents didn't ... you look at toddler pictures of me and I'm in corduroy overalls, I look like a little boy, which is useful now, when you do throwback Thursdays on Facebook, right because I still look like a little boy.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, my family had not done that but I was living in this 00:49:00world where there were these expectations and where I was feeling more and more like a masculine entity and thinking more and more about things like voice, so when people did mistake me as a man, while I had been correcting people all those years it kinda felt good.

Ethan Hutchinson: I had mistaken what feminism was, I identified as a feminist because I was a feminist I had to be proud of being a woman. Well that's not true, I can also be happy being a man, and identify as a feminist at the same time. So I started thinking about the way my voice showed up and then gave me away after somebody thought that I was a man. Then I started thinking about as you get older, people were mistaking me as a young man, I was a 15, 16, 17 year old boy in their mind, not a man.

Ethan Hutchinson: I realized as I got older I was gonna start losing that. Then I started thinking about the way the body ages and clothing options that are 00:50:00available to older women, and I just thought that's not for me, I was at an age where it was gonna come up as I couldn't be accidentally stealth anymore.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I started doing some research, like I said, there was not anything online about what the effects would be on your body. The one thing that I can remember finding online was that your hands and feet will not grow on testosterone, it does not affect bones like that. Because if you're a little guy and you've got little hands we feel like it's gonna give us away. So I remember that being like the biggest source of information you could find at the time.

Ethan Hutchinson: It was really hard to find an endocrinologist in town, there were no endocrinologists in Greensboro, I had to drive to Carrboro and that was just sort of word of mouth where I called my queer friends in Raleigh and said, "Where do the trans-people go in Raleigh?" And they sort of asked around and found Dr. Lawrence in Carrboro who saw trans-people.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I started going to that process. So that's sort of what it was, it was you know I tell people all the time that, that experience teaching elementary school was the night, and how do you appreciate the day if you do no understand the night, and I needed that experience to dort of ... like I did that, I know what that is, so when people were asking me "Are you sure about transitioning?" "Oh yes, I am sure I know what the alternative is."

Brittany Hedrick: Okay. Do you ever feel that you are defined by others solely by your sexuality?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... not anymore, no, not in 2016.

Ethan Hutchinson: Perhaps, at a time, like I said there were plenty of folks on campus who just wear ... event the idea of being lesbian or gay back in the early 2000s was sort of ... I mean why were we going into classes and talking to 00:52:00sociology students about what it's like to be a real life lesbian, a real life gay man in 2003 if it's not something that's a little bit shrouded in mystery.

Ethan Hutchinson: At the time I felt like that was an identity marker that folks were really invested in because they didn't get it and they wanted to know more there was that thirst.

Ethan Hutchinson: Now, I don't find that. I find that people are almost like I expect folks to be more interested when they find out I'm trans. People are actually flipped past it pretty quickly these days. "Oh that's great for you and amazing, and I'm just so glad you got to do that, and have you seen the new movie?" That's more the experience, "Have you seen Rogue One yet?" Or whatever it is that just came out.

Ethan Hutchinson: So no, at this point I don't feel as if it is the primary identity marker that people are invested in when they meet me or get to know me.

Ethan Hutchinson: Like I told you before we started the interview, you talked to 00:53:00me for five minutes and I'll probably come out as a trans-person to you because it's important to me that people know that, that's my history. That, that's where I come from, that, that's the lens I view this world from. I'm not a cisgender, heterosexual guy. I don't have experiences, I have not had experiences like them. So it's important for people to know.

Brittany Hedrick: How have larger issues in the nation like the Supreme Court ruling in favor of same sex marriage, or the passage of HB2, or the most recent presidential election of 2016, how have those affected you?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... I'm a very privileged person. I'll start there.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm a white guy. I read, you can see me the interviews, the folks listening can't, but I have a six inch beard. So I don't look like a 00:54:00trans-person. Sometimes people might mistake me for gay because I'm a little bit effeminate in my mannerisms and my speech patterns. But, I don't get clocked as trans very often. I'm also pretty tall guy for a trans-guy or even for a guy.

Ethan Hutchinson: So my whiteness protects me, that's a privilege, right. I'm not automatically targets as a result of my skin color, thinking about the most recent election.

Ethan Hutchinson: The other way in which I'm privileged is I currently work for the University of California system and they have some pretty excellent insurance. So I have been afforded the opportunity that most trans-folks are not, which is to undergo any and every surgical piece of transition that I would like to go through.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I've gone through four surgeries, and I'm now at the very 00:55:00end of my medical transition. I just finished this year, February. As a result of finishing all of that I also was able to finish all of my legal transition. So all the way to the passport which is like the holy grail. If you can get your passport to say your name and your gender. Mine says Ethan and male.

Ethan Hutchinson: So there's a relative amount of safety in that for me. Privilege and safety, as a result of the surgeries, I can walk into a men's restroom now and used it in a way that does make me feel uncomfortable.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I have not personally been affected. My community has been affected, and if HB2 had been passed two years ago, three years ago, four years ago. Any time I lived in North Carolina would have definitely affected me. I'm certainly a person who ... I said people used to mistake me as a man, even when I identified as a lesbian, and I distinctly remember a time where I was coming 00:56:00out of a women's restroom right here on UNCG's campus, and a woman walked up to me and it was some event, sort of busy, and I walked out of the women's restroom and a woman walked up to me and said, "You see all these women waiting in this line right here, right now." I said, "Yeah, I do." She said, "So you're gonna go in our bathroom and use our bathroom when you got one right there with no line." I said, "Ma'am, I'm using the bathroom that matches what's on my drivers license." She said, "I don't believe you." I said, "I could pull out my driver's license." She said, "You can also drop your pants I'm still not gonna believe you."

Ethan Hutchinson: So I've experienced bathroom policing. What I think about when I think about HB2 and the election of Donald Trump, is the deputization of our citizenry.

Ethan Hutchinson: We've got folks out there who already believe in things like citizens arrest and we're able to take law and order to use his own words, into 00:57:00our own hands, and I am nervous about the emboldening and the deputization of folks who have no business being the police officers around bathrooms or anything else quite frankly.

Ethan Hutchinson: I did have an experience in Santa Cruz, California the day after the election I was walking to the Whole Foods around the corner from my house to pick up some dinner. There were people around, probably around 7 o'clock at night on November 9th, and there were some tables out from of the Whole Foods and three of the tables were used up, two by couples and then one by one gentleman by himself, and I sat down, and I've got a knit hat that I wear that's red and it's got little hearts on it, and let's see, I know they can't see me, but you know.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I've got my little knit hat with my little hearts on it, and I'm wearing shorty shorts, like I do because I'm a runner. I'm sure I look gay. The way I walk and with my hat and they're patterned pretty cool shorty 00:58:00shorts, and hot pants you might call them.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm walking past the Whole Foods in liberal Santa Cruz, California is the way everyone thinks about it. And this guy as I'm approaching started going, "Ooh, ooh." Then he starts yelling things at me like I'm an effing faggot

Ethan Hutchinson: I don't look at the dog when the angry dog is getting after you. I look at all the bystanders. So I didn't look him in the eyes, and I started looking at the bystanders and nobody looked at me. Nobody looked at him, nobody looked at me, nobody intervened. No one did anything to this man yelling this.

Ethan Hutchinson: So that's a little concerning and frightening to me, as an LGBT identified person, the day after a devastating election this man would feel, A. Emboldened to say something to me in the most liberal part of the United States where nobody ever says anything like that, at least not that loudly and in public. And two, and nobody would intervene.

Ethan Hutchinson: To me, that speaks to the lack of trust, it's hard for me to trust in others. It's hard for other to trust in me, it's hard for people to wanna put their neck out for others because we have this deputization of people who are potentially very violent.

Ethan Hutchinson: So those are the things that I worry about. I worry about those things for my community members here, the queer folks that are near and dear to me in North Carolina. I worry about that for our students for UNCG students, for the students on the campus where I work. Those are the things that I worry about.

Brittany Hedrick: Well going back a little bit. I know we've touched on this, but could you elaborate on the political atmosphere on campus when you were here?

Ethan Hutchinson: George W. Bush was in office. We were all pretty sad about that in a pretty regular basis.

Ethan Hutchinson: I was pretty political, I mean I was always going to Raleigh for a protest or a rally, or a something.

Ethan Hutchinson: I don't remember us having a lot of protests or rallies on campus. What I remember us doing as a part of our activism on campus is inviting a lot of lecture speakers and performers.

Ethan Hutchinson: So Margaret Cho, and Dar Williams, and Kate Peterson and Sarah Cleaver of Nervous but Excited. I remember us getting politically active mostly musicians but comedians and other performers to come on the campus. That was really largely the work of the student organization, the Pride student 01:01:00organization, there wasn't an administrator doing all of that.

Ethan Hutchinson: We of course needed help from the administrators, but it was at the pressure of the students. So those were the sorts of things we were doing political understanding through art. What does it look like to be politicized, that was the way that I was connected anyways.

Ethan Hutchinson: Was who were the pillars, who are making statements about this. That could be something that students, average students would be interested in going to. We could reel them in for an epic poetry slam or for ... what's that woman's name? We had a porn star come one year and talk about doing queer porn and we filled up one of the ballrooms in the Elliott University Center while this woman gave a two hour lecture on the porn industry and being a part of quite frankly gang bang porn is what she was talking about.

Ethan Hutchinson: So those were the sorts of things, we were doing some subversive things in those ways. I think we had sort of resigned ourselves to, I mean I remember there were some friction around the war, Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the war in Afghanistan.

Ethan Hutchinson: That particularly came to a head from me as I was working at the student recreation center because that's where a lot of vet's end up. This campus beyond having a lot of queer students, has a lot of veteran students.

Ethan Hutchinson: We were teaching one of the first in the nation to get a veteran services program coordinator, which is awesome, but I remember there being friction between the students, staff, and the students who came in to use the weight room equipment who specifically were veterans.

Ethan Hutchinson: So we had to develop a training to assist our student staff to be more gracious around these folks and help them explore what PTSD is or what 01:03:00the experience might've been that they had in Iraq and how that's very different than an 18 year old who just came out of high school.

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember that being part of the political climate, that tension there, but I don't remember it exploding in any particular way that ... when I was at UNCG, Greensboro was also going through the process of the Truth and Reconciliation Project in regards to the 1979 massacre. So that was a thing that was happening and we were going to a lot of those project open forums and meetings a lot of which were being held on UNCG's campus.

Ethan Hutchinson: Those are some things that I remember.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay. Well and I did wanna ask you, do you think of UNCG as an inclusive and accepting environment?

Ethan Hutchinson: Yes. I tell folks all the time that I could not have picked a better undergraduate institution to be a lesbian identified person and be 01:04:00supported in fumbling through what it meant to even figure out who I was as a lesbian. There's no roadmap, there was no roadmap for that.

Ethan Hutchinson: You sort of fumble through what does it mean to be gay and what does it mean to be gay in the South. A gay southern person, and I found a lot of support at UNCG and a lot of openness and I don't ever recall an administrator being rude to me about it or a faculty member being rude to me about it. I remember folks being warm and open and accepting, and students too.

Ethan Hutchinson: Then, I also could not have picked a better institution to transition. I mean I remember the dean of students office, is where I worked when I was getting my masters here and they were just so supportive of my transition, and I collaborated with the wellness center. So supportive of my transition.

Ethan Hutchinson: Jeanne actually, one time, I was registering for a safe zone, I was like, "Oh I should probably go through the safe zone as an administrator as opposed to helping lead it as a student. It might be a different perspective", it's been a few years since I've been at UNCG, so I was registering for a safe zone, and I accidentally sent her my assigned name at birth through my registration, and Jeanne wrote back and went, "Are you sure you don't mean Ethan?" I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm just learning, you're right."

Ethan Hutchinson: So very sweet and kind, the faculty in the student personal administration higher education program were very kind and supportive. I actually still come back sometimes and speak to their classes about supporting trans-identified students. The biggest difficulties I had were getting my name changed on my ID card, or getting a new picture, and I remember going down to the ID card center and saying I need a new picture, and a new name because I've changed my name and I look different.

Ethan Hutchinson: They said, "Okay, that'll be $25." I said, "You know, I don't think that will be $25, I think that's a built in discriminatory practice and perhaps for the purposes of your trans-students who have no choice but to change their cards for the purposes of safety, you should consider waiving that fee." And they waived that fee for me that day.

Ethan Hutchinson: There were times at which I had to be ... pretty forward and resilient, I remember going to the health center and saying "I don't know what you all are doing for trans-students but here are some suggestions I have."

Ethan Hutchinson: And them being like, "Yeah, can we meet? We'd love to meet with you." And then I sent them an article it was the only article on trans-students on campus at that time, by Brett Genny Beemym and outlined some experiences that students have on college campuses and I remember the health center director looking at me and saying, "Is this happening to our students? I need to know if this is already happening here." I said, "Not to my knowledge, 01:07:00but it could. So what are you doing about that?" She said, "Alright, let's talk about it."

Ethan Hutchinson: I remember folks being open and thirsting for more. Recognizing ... UNCG is a place that I think recognizes when there's a deficit, and works to overcome that deficit. I think the individuals on this campus do that. I think that the administration up the line does that and I think the institution as a whole.

Ethan Hutchinson: UNCG was looking at renaming Aycock Auditorium as a result of Aycock being pretty racist. So I think that UNCG is a pretty aware campus, and doesn't do everything perfectly all the time but what institution does? It's still within the structure too.

Ethan Hutchinson: Maybe that answers your question.

Brittany Hedrick: Yeah. Okay, well what did you do after you graduated?

Ethan Hutchinson: From undergrad, I went and taught elementary school and then just came right back.

Ethan Hutchinson: From my masters, I took a job at St. Mary's College of California as the Director of Student Judicial Affairs in Moraga, California. I recognized at the time that I graduated from my masters that I had spent my entire life in North Carolina, and I had gotten my undergraduate degree and my graduate degree at the same institution, and perhaps it was time to A. Work for a different institution or institution type, and B. Expand my world view in my lens.

Ethan Hutchinson: I don't like to be cold, I don't like cold climates, and so I did a sunbelt search, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, I was even willing, Tennessee, I was even willing. And I ended up getting a job in California.

Ethan Hutchinson: Incidentally, I was only in that job for a year because I experienced work place discrimination for being an LGBT employee and filed an HR 01:09:00complaint against my supervisor and he was not reprimanded in any way, so I left and I came back and worked a contract position for Guilford College for a year, and then after Guilford College took some time off from my first surgery, and then after that surgery ended up at UC Santa Cruz, where I've now been able to fund the next three surgeries.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay.

Brittany Hedrick: And how have you served beyond UNCG in professional organizations or in the community?

Ethan Hutchinson: In Santa Cruz, this will be my fourth year being the coordinator of the Santa Cruz Pride Parade, so we have a pride celebration in Santa Cruz every year and I coordinate an AD contingent parade through our downtown every June.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm really involved on our campus at UCSC, I do a lot of trainings around bystander intervention. Anti-racism trainings, supporting 01:10:00trans-folks, although UC Santa Cruz just became the first institution in the United States to hire a transgender educator, coordinator, so I pushed for our institution to get that position and then assisted in hiring that person. So I do work like that for the institution and then try to connect the institution to the university.

Ethan Hutchinson: For a while I was ... there's an organization called CASA which connects youth who are in the foster system, foster adoption system, CPS system, with mentors in the community. So I mentored a youth in Santa Cruz through CASA, I went through their training and I mentored a youth for a year until he moved on.

Ethan Hutchinson: Those are some things that I do. It's interesting UNCG did 01:11:00teach me, like I said, all of my classes were very experiential education based or building a project particularly with the community and I kind of carried that forward. The connecting people and making sure that I'm giving back to the community that I live in is important to me, and UNCG is really where that started for me.

Brittany Hedrick: Yeah. How have you been involved with UNCG since you graduated?

Ethan Hutchinson: Well I'm doing this.

Ethan Hutchinson: Actually, when I was living here, for that one year when I worked for Guilford, I served on a LGBT advisory board for the alumni association. I come back for homecoming as often as I can, but y'all did it at a really bad time.

Ethan Hutchinson: Mostly, I keep up, I read the newsletters pretty religiously. If there are meet ups in my area, Chancellor Gilliam, Gilliam? Is that how you pronounce it? Was just in LA, and I was like, "Oh, I need you to come to San 01:12:00Francisco because LA is so far away, and I really wanna meet him.

Ethan Hutchinson: It's difficult when you're 3000 miles away to stay involved in ways because you know community service is three things, time, talent, or treasures.

Ethan Hutchinson: I've got time, and I've talent. I don't have a lot of treasures, so I'm not able to give to UNCG in that way, so when this came up, I thought well this is a way that I can give to UNCG and be invested in my undergraduate institution in a meaningful way.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, anytime when they ask for feedback on Aycock Auditorium, I wrote a long letter. Anytime that UNCG asks my opinion or my feedback, or is in need of me and I'm able to give it from far away, I do.

Brittany Hedrick: What were your proudest accomplishments during your time here?

Ethan Hutchinson: Oh goodness.

Brittany Hedrick: I know you mentioned the prom, which was definitely something to be proud about.

Ethan Hutchinson: Yeah.

Ethan Hutchinson: You know, I told you through that recreation parks and 01:13:00tourism, RPT 201 leadership class that we did some sort of project that instigated institutional change. The project I ended up working on with a woman named Alex, was to get vegan and vegetarian food in the UNCG dining hall, and we did that. There was no vegan or vegetarian food until we started working with dining services on menu options and how do you even create, because they just didn't know, like how do you even do that.

Ethan Hutchinson: So we instigated that. That's the thing I'm pretty proud of. Being on homecoming court, weirdly enough, I'm proud of. Prom, weirdly enough, I'm proud of. Keeping Pride together, you know as a student organization where it was hard to find an out faculty or staff person who would be our ... what is it called? You have to have someone who oversees ... the advisor, that's the word.

Ethan Hutchinson: So finding someone who would be an advisor and making sure that, that organization stayed in place to support those students. I remember that when I first got involved in pride that it was in peril, it was unclear whether or not we were going to continue to have a pride, so we had to do a lot of hard work to find an advisor and again, there was no safe zone, so there was no list of people that we could just go to and say, oh maybe one of these people would be interested in being our advisor.

Ethan Hutchinson: You just kinda had to figure out which faculty member, or which person on campus, you know, faculty and staff weren't always out at the time. They weren't always easy to identify.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I would say making sure that Pride continued on as an organization for our students, was another point of Pride for me.

Brittany Hedrick: How has attending UNCG impacted and affected your life and what does UNCG mean to you?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... Boy, isn't that what we've been talking about the whole time.

Brittany Hedrick: Yup.

Ethan Hutchinson: ... Overall, UNCG saw something in me that I didn't see in myself and it brought that out of me, intentionally I think. UNCG brought that out of me, and UNCG provided me with the confidence, primarily the confidence, but definitely also the skills to be a contributing member of my world, my 01:16:00community, and my society. UNCG taught me really what I believe that community is. I don't think I had a strong sense of what community meant, until I was a part of the UNCG community and then various parts of the UNCG community.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I'm a person who's very invested in community and I believe that UNCG instilled that value in me, which is probably one of my core values more than any other experience I've had in my life.

Brittany Hedrick: While we're doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary of the university, which is an excellent opportunity for reflection. It also helps us think about where we're heading in the future.

Brittany Hedrick: So where do you think the future for UNCG is? Where do you see UNCG going as an institution in the next 25, 50 years?

Ethan Hutchinson: ... there needs to be a whole center dedicated to LGBT students. We need a center. I don't know if I see it going that way, but I think that, that's the next step.

Ethan Hutchinson: Assaults on LGBT folks is not going away and ... as far as our national and state politics are concerned. I think it would serve UNCG well to .... to ensure that all of our students who are about to experience extreme marginality all over again, have a place, can see that place, and feel comfortable in that play. Whether or not those are students of color, students from varying religious, socioeconomic, sexual and gender identity, backgrounds 01:18:00... UNCG ... the things that I'm now currently the most proud that UNCG is doing I think as an alum and as I read up on what's happening is moving to partner with other campuses to build a stronger local university situation. I'm thinking about the nano tech, and things like that.

Ethan Hutchinson: But, ensuring that we're in collaboration, in partnership with A&T, and Bennett, and Guilford, and Winston-Salem State, and Wake Forest, and North Carolina Central; to continue to look for those partnerships because I think that the students that those institutions serve and that we serve are very similar and that our students benefit from being in concert with one another, 01:19:00again I'm thinking specifically of the nano tech.

Ethan Hutchinson: I'm really excited for the new recreation center having been a rec person and then worked in the rec center. So I recognize that UNCG has some land locking problems. I would encourage honestly UNCG to leave the Glenwood neighborhood alone. I think that I'm really nervous about displacing marginalized communities and gentrification, and UNCG's rule in that.

Ethan Hutchinson: So if I were to give advice to UNCG, I would say, "Leave Glenwood alone." In the next 25 years.

Ethan Hutchinson: But otherwise, keep growing and expanding to keep supporting our students and keep supporting our students academic interests and pursuits. Again with the nano tech and some of the things I see happening even in the 01:20:00health and human performance. Again, UNCG seems to be continually respond to the world around it in a way that sets its students up for success and I'm looking forward to it continuing to do so.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay. I don't think I have anymore formal questions for you, but did you have anything you'd like to add about your time here at UNCG? Or any other experiences you would like to mention?

Ethan Hutchinson: I wish Megan was sitting right here with me, because I'm sure we would riff together really well.

Brittany Hedrick: Excuse me.

Ethan Hutchinson: No problem.

Ethan Hutchinson: Y'all are gonna have to sit through all this awkward dead space to edit?

Ethan Hutchinson: You know I just have so many profoundly personal memories where the landscape is UNCG. Those profoundly personal memories that bring joy, I remember riding my bike over to campus and ... going over to that ... what's that little grassy spot between Spring Garden and the oldest building on campus 01:21:00... it's not Founders Glen is it? What's it called?

Ethan Hutchinson: Anyways and setting my backpack up against ... laying my bike down and setting my backpack up against it and having an hour or two between class and just taking a nap in the grass, you know and you were asking about safety earlier, I felt safe enough on this campus to just lay down in the grass and take a little nap in the middle of the day, and just feel the sunshine on me and listen to the classes that were going on next to me.

Ethan Hutchinson: Those are some of those beautiful memories that warm your heart when you think about what was my undergraduate experience like, and then I remember in graduate school, I was walking across the lawn in front of the Elliottt University Center, I was on my phone, and you know a graduate student, so my head is in a billion different places, and it was like I had just introduced myself the graduate students in my cohort as Ethan. They met me prior 01:22:00to my transition. I started transitioning that first semester I was here, because I was like "Oh this is a safe place to transition, I'll just go ahead and do this."

Ethan Hutchinson: I started researching that summer and then got here it was like the faculty and students were so fantastic it seemed like a good idea to ahead and it, in their care. One of the women in my program was standing in front of the university center and I was closer to the parking deck. She starts yelling, "Ethan! Ethan!" And waving her hands, and just because I hadn't learned how to respond to that name yet, I'm just walking, I just had no idea, and finally I looked around for some reason I see my friend like this and screaming the name Ethan, and I was like, "Oh that's me!"

Ethan Hutchinson: It was the first time on UNCG's campus was the first time with another UNCG student was the first time that somebody in public called that name and expected that I would just reply to it and what a beautiful gift that person 01:23:00gave me. And what a beautiful gift that the memory is in front of the Elliott University Center with one of my classmates in a place where I did feel completely safe transitioning here.

Ethan Hutchinson: I can't imagine a greater gift for an alma mater. I hear some folks talk about their experiences as an undergraduate or a graduate as an LGBT person, and how hard it was. I'm not saying that it wasn't hard and UNCG didn't put obstacles in my way, but those were just institutional ones, not people ones.

Ethan Hutchinson: So I really do feel like when I think about this place I think about how generously loving and supportive this academic environment was in a way that you don't get everywhere and that you probably ought not to expect everywhere.

Brittany Hedrick: Okay.

Ethan Hutchinson: Thank you Brittany.

Brittany Hedrick: Thank you, that was really great. I'll go ahead and hit stop.