Oral history interview with Dr. David Olson, 2017

Brittney H.: My name is Brittany Hedrick and today is, Monday, April 10, 2017. I'm in the Jackson Library with Dr. David Olson, Professor of Political Science, to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection.

Brittney H.: Thank you Dr. Olson for participating in this project and sharing your experiences with me.

Dr. Olson: I guess I should say that technically, I'm professor emeritus.

Brittney H.: That is correct, okay. All right. Well, okay. So, I like to start the interview by, asking you about your childhood. Could you tell me when and where you were born?

Dr. Olson: Westwood, Lassen County, California. I say Lassen County because in California there are two Westwoods. One near Los Angeles and we won't worry about that. But I was born up north in the mountains, High Sierras.

Brittney H.: All right. How about your family and your home life?

Dr. Olson: I'm the only child. And we were in a town called Westwood during the 00:01:001930's Depression era.

Brittney H.: Okay.

Dr. Olson: And we lived there, through my grammar and junior high school period. And I entered San Mateo High School as a freshman in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Brittney H.: Okay. What did your parents do?

Dr. Olson: Well my father worked in the lumber yard. In the High Sierra, lumbering was what everybody did, it was a company town. Only later did I discover that I grew up in a social problem. And my mother was a homemaker in the 1930s.

Brittney H.: Okay. And what year were you born, again?

Dr. Olson: 1930.

Brittney H.: 1930. Okay. So, you mentioned high school, what were your favorite subjects and did you enjoy school?

Dr. Olson: Yes. I was interested in most of the courses and most of the topics. 00:02:00It was a good time.

Brittney H.: Okay. When did you graduate from high school?

Dr. Olson: 1948, beginning of the Cold War.

Brittney H.: Okay, what was that like?

Dr. Olson: Very interesting. I didn't know what was happening in the world, expect a lot was happening.

Brittney H.: Would you say that was a time of just fear? Because if you were born in the 1930s, you lived through the Depression and the Cold War, that was...

Dr. Olson: Well, the Cold War was just beginning.

Brittney H.: Yeah.

Dr. Olson: So, we lived through the Depression, World War II. And what was going to happen? We didn't know.

Brittney H.: What about your education after high school? Could you tell me about that journey?

Dr. Olson: All my degrees are from the University of California at Berkeley. I began at San Mateo Junior College. Now they've elevated the rhetoric and it's 00:03:00College of San Mateo. But it's the equivalent of the community college and technical institute system in North Carolina.

Dr. Olson: So, my first two years in university education were at the community college and then I transferred to Berkeley.

Brittney H.: So, what year did you ... Tell me about the different degrees that you received and what years that you received them, and what that was like.

Dr. Olson: The community college awarded the AA degree, associates in arts, so that was two years. 1950, I graduated from Berkeley with a BA, in 1952. And, I guess my master's degree came later in 1956 and then my PhD in 1961.

Brittney H.: Okay. So, what was your major in college, what did you focus on?

Dr. Olson: At the undergraduate level I was interested in everything, mostly. But I was more interested in people then math, math was certainly pleasant and enjoyable. But I didn't know what I wanted to concentrate on, so I took what was called a Group Major in the Social Sciences. I didn't specialize in anything, but tried to get as much as possible.

Dr. Olson: And then graduate level I was in political science.

Brittney H.: What made you decide to choose political science?

Dr. Olson: Well of all the things which interested me, I was more immediately interested in the drama of the Cold War and international policy, and that leads to domestic politics. And as part of the PhD program, I was with the American Political Science Association, in a position called congressional fellow. So, I 00:05:00was in Washington on Capitol Hill for a year, working with members of the House and members of the Senate.

Dr. Olson: And that largely defined my research field. I'm a specialist in legislatures and I like to travel, so I'm a specialist in legislatures around the world. Some of us concentrate on just one congress, or one parliament, in one country, I do comparative work. But, it all begins with that.

Brittney H.: Okay. And so, you got your PhD in political science and that... I guess what I'm asking is, What did you write your dissertation on?

Dr. Olson: At my age, I'm tempted to say, "I wish I could remember." I was interested in interscripts as lobbying organization. And I did a comparative study of two very different kinds of petroleum lobbying organizations. And was 00:06:00able to do some research on that while I was working for congress. So, I saw both sides of the transactions. What was happening on Capitol Hill, and what happening in the interest groups.

Brittney H.: That's very cool. Okay. So, I guess to continue the journey. What did you do after you graduated with a PhD? And I guess more relevant to this interview how did you find out about UNCG?

Dr. Olson: Well my previous faculty employments were at the University of Texas and the University of Georgia. And while I was at Georgia, I was asked if I would be interested in considering the position of the department head of the newly created Department of Political Science.

Dr. Olson: And one of the interesting things about that possibility is that the department did not exist. So, to form a department they needed a department head. And I became appointed to that position. Came here in 1971.

Brittney H.: Okay.

Dr. Olson: The department was created audit history in 1970, first thing they did was select a department head. And I started really from Georgia, being here in the spring of '71. And the first person we employed to join the department, I think you interviewed, was Charles Prysby, and he's been with us ever since.

Brittney H.: So, you arrived in 19...

Dr. Olson: '71.

Brittney H.: '71. Okay. Could you tell me about your first days on campus? What was your first impression and was it what you had expected?

Dr. Olson: Well UNCG was in a very young, formative stage, starting in the mid-1960s. So, UNCG is an example of a small well-defined, well regarded 00:08:00institution of one characteristic, women's liberty arts. And all of a sudden expanding to become a much larger and diversified organization, and political sciences was part of that.

Dr. Olson: So, it was very much of an institution on the move and it was kind of ... So, we didn't know the kind of university that UNCG would become. We didn't know what the department would become, but I was part of the beginning. And that was interesting.

Brittney H.: Okay. What were your areas of focus in teaching, practice, and scholarship, while you were here? What courses did you teach?

Dr. Olson: Well, one of the fun things about being in a brand new department, we didn't have enough faculty to offer what we need to offer. So, one of the fun things, was that, I give a variety of courses depending upon the need for the 00:09:00time the department could offer them. And then we would bring in faculty members to pick up the strand of thought in one of the early courses.

Dr. Olson: For example, I gave a course in urban politics that's not a specialty of my any more. But it was something that I was interested in, so I did that.

Dr. Olson: My research was always concentrated on legislatures and parliaments. And, in 1979, so that's the first decade, I was able to travel overseas and visit a variety of parliaments. Some established parliaments, like Great Britain and Sweden. And, a newly democratized parliament in Spain, Franco had just been 00:10:00deposed or he died. And I wanted to see what a communist parliament was like, so I went to Poland, for a month.

Dr. Olson: And, that visit to Poland was the beginning of a 30 year concentration on communist and post-communist parliaments. But the changes that occurred in the Cold War, 10 years after I was there, there was no more Cold War. So, I had the opportunity to see what a communist parliaments would become when it was no longer communist. What would it become. And I spent a lot of time working on, with colleagues there as well as here, developing book projects and books, exploring what happens over time in parliaments.

Dr. Olson: When I first came here I had no idea, either the Cold War would end, or that I would become part of it. But I've had the opportunity.

Brittney H.: Very interesting. Okay. You mentioned having to teach a lot of different courses because there was not enough faculty. What challenges did you face?

Dr. Olson: I thought that one of the hardest things to accomplish would be to attract the right kind of faculty members to a new department. It turned out to be one of the more enjoyable parts of my activities. We were able to find the appropriate kind of good people to come here. And one attraction we had, was that we were a new department and a whole series of courses had not yet been defined. And we were looking for people with enough energy and imagination, with good current training, to develop a set courses in their particular sector of activities.

Dr. Olson: So for example, when the first categories of person we brought in, was concerned with urban politics. That's an example. Political administration, international relations. So, we had the opportunity to develop our on curriculum, so it was much more creative... open ended, and therefore created a certain set of circumstances that you'll find in many pre-existing department.

Dr. Olson: So, that was kind of a happy adventure. To find the right people and to see how courses and student body would develop.

Brittney H.: Okay. Were there any colleagues within your department who have made an impression on you?

Dr. Olson: We now have 13 members of the department. We began with just a small 00:13:00number. So, everyone's an individual. And each of us has been able to cooperate with each other in the writing of things. Happily, I'm glad to say.

Dr. Olson: Now, I might add, that one of the things that developed here, and I'm very happy, in a positive way, I had never anticipated and it's our graduate program. We have a very active MPA, Master of Public Affairs Program, long time director, Ruth DeHoog. Some of the early faculty members, like Jim Sparrow, very important in the development of that program. But I did not expect that we would need any kind of a graduate program, when I came here.

Dr. Olson: My view of education in North Carolina, based upon what I'd seen in my prior faculty appointments, was that the Masters Public Affairs Program at 00:14:00Chapel Hill was in existence, a perfectly fine, important program. And therefore there would be no need for a similar program elsewhere in the state.

Dr. Olson: As soon as I got here we had people asking for a graduate program at public affairs. I had no idea when I came here, that, that would be a possibility. It turned out to be a happy possibility.

Dr. Olson: When I was interviewing here, I would be asked, "Well how are you going to develop the department? What are you going to do? What are your ideas?" And I had to say, I didn't have the faintest idea. Because I do not know what is available and needed in the community and the state. One of our opportunities is to response to the circumstances that become available to us. And that was true, both in the development of courses, degree programs and in research. We've had the opportunity to response to outside needs, and hopefully contribute 00:15:00positively to them.

Brittney H.: So, you, just to go back and make sure that I have this right, you were department head, when you arrived. How long did you hold that position?

Dr. Olson: Too damn long. What I didn't realize is that, when you start a new department and you start with new people, it takes more than 10 years for the new people to develop enough skill and maturity and research and rank, so they can take over the leadership of the department. So, I had to wait until my department grew up effect. So, I was very happy to relinquish the position. And 00:16:00I'm in a happy position of being able to say each of my successors as department head, has had a different view of what they could do and how to do it. Very different then my own and I approve of each of them. They've all done well. I'm happy with my successors doing things I would never have thought of, and could never have done. Good for them.

Brittney H.: When did the department create the MPA program? Was that under you or...?

Dr. Olson: Mh-mm (Affirmative).

Brittney H.: Okay, Okay, okay. All right. So, how would you say your department as changed over the time that you've been here? Obviously the MPA program is a landmark in those regards, but what else has changed?

Dr. Olson: The range of courses we give for undergraduates, of course, expands 00:17:00as we increase our faculty. And we've been able to take our students to Washington, to have them participate in national contests and conferences, the Model UN for example, in New York.

Dr. Olson: And because of the development, very positive development, of the UNCG international Programs, we were able to receive and send students abroad. That's been a very important development with the University and we happily participated in that international program.

Dr. Olson: I'd say the internationalization of the curriculum in the student body is the single most positive change I've seen in my time at UNCG.

Brittney H.: Now usually with I whenever I interview department heads, one of the concerns that comes up is funding. Did your department have trouble with funding?

Dr. Olson: So, what else is new?

Brittney H.: It seems to be a recurring theme.

Dr. Olson: Of course. In the beginning stages of a department, there's a clear administration decision to create a department, then funds have to come with it. But after a while they become just an ordinary department suffering the cuts and expansions of the budget as they, kind of, come down from on high. We have to deal with those problems.

Dr. Olson: So, yeah. We've been, with some respects, hurt particularly at the wrong times. Budget cuts, for example, our part-time graduate program secretary, for her own reasons had to vacate the position. She's perfectly fine, but she, for personal reasons had to leave. Then came the budget cuts and how do you 00:19:00response to a budget cut? You don't fill vacant positions. It took us 10 years to recover that position.

Dr. Olson: We have had, the circumstances of conserving, opening up a new position in the department and then that was blocked, no expansion money.

Dr. Olson: So, how to deal with budgets is just a constant problem.

Brittney H.: Are there any social or academic events that stand out in your mind in, you know, among faculty even? I know Dr. Prysby was talking about some faculty events that he enjoyed.

Dr. Olson: Well, the annual graduation parties obviously a lot of fun. And, when several of us are at a national or regional conference, that's always a nice 00:20:00opportunity, also.

Brittney H.: What about the types of students, that you've had in your department over the years? How have they changed since 1971?

Dr. Olson: Well, I was really surprised. I didn't object, but I was very surprised in my first couple of years of classes here, that most of our students were female. Most of my students elsewhere where male. and that's true now. So, the student body as diversified by gender and by race. So, it's a very nice mixture of people.

Dr. Olson: One of the distinctive courses, we've developed for the undergraduates is a program in political campaigning. It began as a workshop in 00:21:00practical politics and now we have a fancier name for it. But students are workers for political candidates in elections, each election time. And the course is built around that campaign and experience. And we like to have the class divided approximately 50/50, between the two political parties. Speaking of diversity and variety. And usually they're within the 60/40 range and whichever party is in the 60% range in that course of student enrollments in the beginning of the semester are a prediction of the outcome of the election.

Dr. Olson: But that's been a distinctive, kind of, internship participate course 00:22:00in practical politics. And some of the best discussions I've ever heard, the substance of political issues, have been among these students who are intensively working against one another in the course of an election campaign. It's a nice experience for them, certainly for me as the instructor.

Brittney H.: So, how have you serviced beyond UNCG in professional organization, the community, and also I wanted to talk a little bit about your contributions to the Special Collections and University Archives?

Dr. Olson: The political collects items grew out of my research. I was interviewing members of Congress from a variety of congressional districts from 00:23:00across the United States. And I would travel to their districts and interview people involved in congressional election campaigns.

Dr. Olson: And one evening at his kitchen table, the campaign director, drew the outline of a bumper sticker he had designed, for his particular candidate. Now all the political signs we regard as a form of throw away garbage. Here is an example where there was thought given to how you construct a political message on a bumper sticker. And I have been following up that lead ever since. In where ever I've been, whatever countries I've been in and whatever countries our students come from, as well as here in the United States.

Dr. Olson: And that stuff gets to be rather bulky, but it's nice to have it stored in the library. But, they are clear indications of political trends and methods of campaigning. They reflect the technology of communication as well. So, having them here in the library is just wonderful.

Dr. Olson: For my professional contacts, beyond UNCG, I have been active in the American Political Science Association, I've served on some of their committees. We have an International Political Science Association, with a variety of specialized research subfields. I have been active in my particular legislative specialist subcommittee, research committee. And I've served as chair and co-chair of that international committee, which is thriving now, but I'm out. 00:25:00They're on their own, and they're thriving and doing very well. And that's taken a lot of time. Our conferences has been anywhere in the world. Our research conferences have been anywhere in the world. And the international dimension of my research has been a very important part of my life here at UNCG.

Dr. Olson: The change in communications have been very important in that. We have faxes, emails, computers, around the world, instant communications. Just a fantastic change. When I began a series of research in Europe, in particular in Poland, as a communist country, all by post. It took one month for any communication from here to get there and another month for any communication to come back. And just about the time communism had ended, faxes were coming on 00:26:00strong, the computer as a laptop device were coming on. And thanks to the monopoly of Microsoft, everybody around the world used the same programs and the same equipment. So instantly we could send stuff back and forth overnight via email. And everybody could read everybody's text and programs. Just marvelous speed up in communications.

Dr. Olson: And that's very important for development of internationally oriented programs or nationally run programs here a relatively small university, in a relative small town, in the southern part of the United States. Ordinarily, you have to be on the coast or big cities to do that. But the rapidity of instant communication have obliterated the importance of geography and distances. So, 00:27:00we've benefited greatly from those unanticipated and undesigned by us changes in communication technology.

Brittney H.: Well, I wanted to ask you, if I may, so, you retired in 2011?

Dr. Olson: Best I can recall 2000.

Brittney H.: Oh, 2000, okay. So, what have you been doing?

Dr. Olson: Research, travel. When I was a teaching member of the faculty and I would have an invitation to travel overseas, I would have to consult with the dean and my wife. Afterwards, I simply consulted with my wife. It then became more possible to accept appointments overseas for long periods of time. So, I 00:28:00had Fulbrights, half year at a time. And we'd just go.

Dr. Olson: And, communism ended in 1989, so it's the first 10 years, were my last decade on the faculty and we've been working for an addition two decades beyond that. So, it's become almost a full-time retired occupation. To keep up with research in other countries, sufficiently to produce articles and books and to keep up with events. And analyze them and report them and write them.

Brittney H.: Yeah. So, you've been all over the world?

Dr. Olson: I'd like to be more. Most of my travels have been in African and more particularly Europe, only a couple of trips to the Far East. I'm sorry to say. I 00:29:00would like very much, since it's been so much time with communist and post communist parliaments. I'd like very much to be able to visit the few surviving communist countries and take a look at their legislatures, but no that's not possibly. And the communist countries are disappearing, as for example, Cuba.

Brittney H.: Okay. Well, what were your proudest accomplishments and/or contributions during your time here? Is there any work, project or research that you've done of or which you are particularly proud?

Dr. Olson: Well, we have four or five books, almost in a series on post-communist parliaments and all of them are collaborative projects. Not a 00:30:00single one of those books is written just by one person. To develop cross national research requires the cooperation of a variety of people, who are familiar with the variety of countries.

Dr. Olson: When, I'm overseas I'm a head hunter. I'm looking for talent. And how do you find social science talent in former communist countries? So trying to find persons with the skills and interest suitable for our research and work with them has been a continual traveling seminar over these decades, to work with our counterparts in former communist universities. To help them and to help us figure out what the political realities are in their countries and then help them develop the social science analytic skills to write neutrally rather as 00:31:00propaganda for a regime.

Dr. Olson: And so, what I'm proud of is the capacity to ... is the emergence of a collectively cooperative project. Which, has taken a lot of time to put together and make possible. But the result is a collective project not an individual project.

Brittney H.: So, how has UNCG impacted and effected your life? What does UNCG mean to you?

Dr. Olson: Well, that's what we been discussing, is UNCG has made, under the circumstances of changing international relations, changing communicates, is made possible for a whole variety of us. In this case me, to develop research, 00:32:00which has been personally interesting and other people find worthwhile.

Dr. Olson: There's no one particular feature at UNCG that I'd point too. But it's the combination of instruction, research, travel, that makes it all possible.

Brittney H.: Any interactions with our chancellors?

Dr. Olson: Inevitably.

Brittney H.: Chancellor Ferguson, Chancellor Moran, Chancellor Sullivan, and I guess Chancellor Brady, you retired two years after she arrived. Any particular interacts with any of the chancellors?

Dr. Olson: I'm sure Brady came after I retired.

Brittney H.: Okay. Oh.

Dr. Olson: I retired in 2000.

Brittney H.: Yes. That's right. I'm sorry a hiccup.

Dr. Olson: Ferguson was chancellor when I came here, and he was a pleasant happy guy to work with. His office was the Pecky Cypress Room in the Alumni House. And I commiserated with him when the new administration buildings opened, and he moved to a mausoleum rather than stay in that lovely office. But he was a very pleasant person to work with.

Dr. Olson: I worked very closely with his successor Moran and then with Sullivan. They were interesting worthwhile people to work with.

Brittney H.: Do you have any thoughts on our new chancellor, Franklin Gilliam?

Dr. Olson: I have no personal interaction with him at all, so I have no idea. I see he has the right kind of background. And it was certainly pleasant to see his appearance on the auditorium stage for the music program, to participate in the Gilbert and Sullivan parody Lord High Chancellor, it was wonderful. But I have no serious interaction with him as the new chancellor. I've managed to stay out of his way.

Brittney H.: Well, we are doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary of the University. Which is an excellent opportunity for reflection, but it also helps us to think about where we are heading in the future. So, what do you think the future is for UNCG? And where do you see UNCG going as an institution in the next 25 to 50 years? Very big question.

Dr. Olson: We and A&T were created at about the same time. Each is one mile from downtown in opposite directions. And that history is part of who we are and one of our opportunities is to develop a cooperative mutual satisfactory kinds of programs, when the change of needs of society community would make that useful and worthwhile to do.

Dr. Olson: So for example, there a few examples in which institutions of high educations, as large institutions, have genuinely cooperative programs. You know in that respect the graduate program that we have with A&T in social work, is 00:36:00really an unique kind of feature in the American higher education. And for people, who are looking at changes in higher education that joint program is something to be taken a look at.

Dr. Olson: Now our future, who knows. Who, a 100 years ago, could have predicted UNCG as it is become. Who could of predicted that WC, the small liberal arts women's institution, would become UNCG of today. With it's responded to changing times and contributed to those changing times.

Brittney H.: What about the future of the politic science department? Do you foresee there being a PhD program in the future?

Dr. Olson: Not the near future. There's not need that I know of. And we're very fortunate we have in near by Chapel Hill and Duke, two first rate, nationally first rate, PhD programs in political science. There's no impressing local need 00:37:00for it as was for our MPA program. So, I don't see a necessary need for us to move in that direction at all. And I'm very glad we've had no such need to response.

Brittney H.: Do you see a need for the expansion of the department? Are there more students enrolling in ... I guess declaring political science as their major, that you know of?

Dr. Olson: When students come here as freshmen and declare majors, we see a bunch of them. Freshman who say they're going to be political science majors. We never see them at graduation time. What happens to the students, they always change their minds.

Dr. Olson: There's always a need for the development of new programs, new 00:38:00courses, we can't do everything. It'd be nice to do more, but what we do depends upon on student enrollments, in the university generally, and enrollments in departments go up and down over time. And we'll response slowly to changes, maybe more slowly because of budget constraints than we would like to. But it's a slow growth, no sudden big switches.

Dr. Olson: For UNCG to have become UNCG, as opposed to WC, therefore, to become an urban orientated and research university. Those are big changes and we're still living with the consequences of those decisions.

Brittney H.: Okay. Well I don't think I have any more formal questions for you. 00:39:00But did you have anything you'd like to add or anything that we forgot to go over, any other experiences you would like to mention?

Dr. Olson: Well UNCG is a good example of developments in American higher education around the country. There's a small institution with a clear purpose, having changed it's direction and it's purposes, so markedly. And then to have grown and developed, they're a good case example of what's happening to American higher education. The development of new organizational forms on campus, a new College of Arts and Sciences, as oppose to just WC. The formation of a new department, as oppose to just two faculty members in some other department. These are some really interesting organization devices to keep track of and to chart. And those changes will continue. We're always changing our organizational structures, some would complain as we change.

Dr. Olson: Let me go back to a point I made about the internationalization of the program. One of our big needs nationally is for our students to understand the changing world. And it's important for us that foreign students understand us. And that we developed the capacity, which did not exist when I came, now to send faculty and students back and forth, it's really an impressive change in the time I've been here, a very positive change.

Dr. Olson: And I'm glad to been part of those changes.

Brittney H.: Well we're so glad that you were here. Well, thank you so much.

Dr. Olson: Thank you.

Brittney H.: It was really great talking to you. Okay.