Oral history interview with Elizabeth Hinshaw, 2017

Scott Hinshaw: Today is Tuesday, August 1, 2017, and my name is Scott Hinshaw. I am in the Alumni House with UNCG Class of 1967 alumna, Elizabeth Hinshaw to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection. Thanks for coming today.

Elizabeth H.: Thank you.

Scott Hinshaw: I'd like to start the interview by asking about you and your background. Please tell me when and where you were born.

Elizabeth H.: I was born July the 6th, 1945 at St. Leo's hospital in Greensboro.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, and tell me about your family and home life. Do you have brothers and sisters? And what did your parents do?

Elizabeth H.: Family's always been very important to me. I had one sister who was born before me, but she only lived a few days. I have one brother, Bill Harris who's a couple years younger than me. My mother worked at Cone Mills and my father worked as a machinist. Both were very supportive of me and my brother.

Scott Hinshaw: Cool. And which mill did your grandmother, or my grandmother, your mother work at?

Elizabeth H.: White Oak, in the office.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, and what high school did you attend?

Elizabeth H.: I went to Greensboro Senior High School, and Grimsley High School now.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: I believe we were the last class to have our class ring say Greensboro Senior High School.

Scott Hinshaw: And you still have yours?

Elizabeth H.: I do. In our junior year, and the name changed right after that.

Scott Hinshaw: That's pretty neat. And what were your favorite subjects in high school?

Elizabeth H.: I wanted to go to Greensboro Senior High because it was the best school around at the time.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: I knew it would be great preparation for getting into college and 00:02:00being ready for college. Some of the teachers I had there were just fantastic. I had for example, Mrs. Gamble in American history. I had Ms. Pfaff in world history.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: You know her son. And I had Ms. Roe for algebra and geometry and trigonometry. She was a really good math teacher. I had Ms. Fountain for chemistry and Mr. Johnson, Jabo was what he has us call him-

Scott Hinshaw: Wow.

Elizabeth H.: ... for physics. I had Ms. Madelyn for Latin.

Scott Hinshaw: Yep, very good.

Elizabeth H.: When we had classical civilization. I also had some great teachers from Gillespie Junior High School.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: One of them, I can't think of her name but she taught world history and I remember that she made that fascinating. And I had Mr. Smith for 00:03:00English. He was really good. He taught us grammar very well, but also literature, Shakespeare. So he was fantastic.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: So those were some really good ones I had there.

Scott Hinshaw: And you said, did you get to pick the high school, because you said you wanted to go to Greensboro High because it was a really good school. Did you get to pick back then, or?

Elizabeth H.: No.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: You didn't get to pick it, it was where you lived that determined where you went. So where mother and daddy bought the house that you know was in, at that time, in the Greensboro -

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, so that played a part in-

Elizabeth H.: High School.

Scott Hinshaw: ... where they bought the house?

Elizabeth H.: Yep. Yes.

Scott Hinshaw: Oh okay.

Elizabeth H.: Yes.

Scott Hinshaw: Wow.

Elizabeth H.: Yes.

Scott Hinshaw: All right. And you mentioned Mrs. Pfaff, and that was the wife of the professor who was here -

Elizabeth H.: Yeah. I-

Scott Hinshaw: Eugene Pfaff.

Elizabeth H.: I didn't know him, but she was a fantastic teacher.

Scott Hinshaw: All right, so let's talk about UNCG. How did you find out about UNCG and why did you choose UNCG?

Elizabeth H.: Well it's being that I lived in Greensboro, I had always known about UNCG, or WCUNC, whatever they were calling it at the time. I was really fortunate, I thought, to live where so many good colleges are. There's UNCG, but there's also A&T, Guilford College, Greensboro College, Bennett College, Chapel Hill, State, High Point. So there were a lot around. But because money was not plentiful, that kind of took out the private colleges because they were to me, extremely expensive. So of the good schools that were around, UNCG was the best value for me and the most convenient because it meant that I could stay at home, 00:05:00which made it cost less too.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure. And did you live on or off campus? You just said you lived at home but there was a period where you lived on campus as well, right?

Elizabeth H.: I did get to live on campus one semester. The way I got through with the tuition was that I had some student loans, but I also had several small scholarships.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: And one of the groups that gave me a scholarship came to me one semester and said, "Here's this much extra money for you for next semester for you to stay on campus." And I told her, I said, "I'll use that to pay for the student loans, or something." "No, this is for you to go." So I stayed on campus that one semester and it was great. A nice experience to have also, it was neat 00:06:00because I was on campus so much between labs and working at the library, that it was nice to be you know, on campus easier to go back and forth.

Scott Hinshaw: Do you know what dorm it was?

Elizabeth H.: Mendenhall.

Scott Hinshaw: Mendenhall.

Elizabeth H.: My roommate was another chemistry major.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay. Was that just by chance, or did they-

Elizabeth H.: No, I knew her from chemistry and so that was helpful.

Scott Hinshaw: Did everybody then, did they declare majors that early usually?

Elizabeth H.: No.

Scott Hinshaw: That was unusual? Okay.

Elizabeth H.: Well, yeah lots of people didn't know. There were several people, you know a good number of people who did like me.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: But I knew from the time I took chemistry in high school that that was where I was going.

Scott Hinshaw: You were hooked.

Elizabeth H.: I would have done history, had it not been that I have such a poor memory.

Scott Hinshaw: Well I think chemistry worked out well for you.

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: But when I had Ms. Pfaff especially, she would make history so interesting. But I couldn't remember dates and things.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: Science and chemistry are so logical, that it just made it a whole lot easier for me.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure. All right. Well can you tell me what your first impression of UNCG was? Was it what you expected?

Elizabeth H.: My first impression was good and a little bit scary.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure.

Elizabeth H.: Although Grimsley had like seven different buildings on its campus. It wasn't nearly as big as UNCG was and so it seemed really, really big to me because of that. But everybody was helpful and friendly it seemed like to me. So it was okay.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, and what was your whole freshman year like?

Elizabeth H.: It was exciting and at times scary.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: Grimsley had done a really great job of preparing me for college so I wasn't as frustrated as some of the kids who came without as good preparation as that. It wasn't as hard as it might have been, or as I saw it was for some kids who didn't have as great a preparation as I got at Grimsley.

Elizabeth H.: I had to make money to pay for books. I had the scholarships for the tuition and to do that I was able to get a job in the circulation department 00:09:00at the library, which was great. I started out there working of course as a page, which I actually enjoyed doing. Some people didn't but I did because I got see all the books.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure.

Elizabeth H.: And I saw books working in the circulation department that I probably never would have looked at.

Scott Hinshaw: So how did you find out about jobs in the library? Was there a-

Elizabeth H.: Back when I was talking to the financial aid officer at the time.

Scott Hinshaw: And that's also how you found out about these other-

Elizabeth H.: Yes, she was a really, really good person.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, that's good. So there was a lot of support?

Elizabeth H.: Oh yes.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: Yes.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, that's good.

Elizabeth H.: I have worked for Ms. Marjorie Hood in the ... She was head circulation library for the whole time I was there, I worked for her and she was really good. I learned a lot from her about the library and things. She even 00:10:00tried to talk me into being the librarian, but chemistry had me.

Scott Hinshaw: Did you work in the library all four years?

Elizabeth H.: I worked in the library all four years and since I was living in Greensboro I could work when the other kids were gone home. You know, the ones that didn't live in Greensboro.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure.

Elizabeth H.: So I would every time the kids were gone. I would work all summer I would work.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: And even after I started teaching, in the summer that was my summer job.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: I came as a staff person.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: So that was cool.

Scott Hinshaw: I didn't know that.

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: Interesting. So what was your job then? Was it different or basically the same? You know, your summer job.

Elizabeth H.: Well after you work as a page, then we worked at the circulation desk and I really enjoyed that again because it was cool for me to be able to 00:11:00help people. Like when we had the hours from 5:00 to 7:00, the reference librarians and other librarians weren't there.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: And so sometimes we'd try to help people until they got back in.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure.

Elizabeth H.: And that was interesting. Also, because I could type I would type a lot of Ms. Hood's letters and things for her. She didn't type. It was just really interesting to interact with the people also to see all the books that came through. Like I said, I read things I probably wouldn't have looked at, or thought about without being in the circulation department.

Elizabeth H.: In the summers when I worked in ... When I was teaching, it was the same thing as a staff member in the circulation department.

Scott Hinshaw: All right. Well let's go back to school itself. So you were on campus for a semester and then obviously later on you weren't. You lived at home and commuted. So can you tell me how the food was at the dining hall for that one semester? I assume you had to eat at the dining hall?

Elizabeth H.: Oh, yeah. It was dining hall food.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: There were times when it was better than others.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: But there were times when I thought I lived on chocolate milk and salads.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: I remember one time though, a new company or something was trying to impress some people, and they actually had, for dinner that night, they had oysters, and steak.

Scott Hinshaw: Wow.

Elizabeth H.: We never saw either one of those before. And I thought that was strange. I said, "Here we are!"

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah. Was it at that time there was the other caf, I've lost the 00:13:00name of it now, but there was a café a lot of the faculty liked to go to. Do you know about that?

Elizabeth H.: Mm-mm (negative).

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, that's all right. And so where did you eat off of campus?

Elizabeth H.: Off campus when we could, because we didn't have much money, or I didn't have much money. If we had enough money to go up to Yum Yum and have a hot dog and ice cream, we thought we were living high.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Also, I liked to go down to The Corner. They had a lunch counter that had a good sandwich.

Scott Hinshaw: Right, that's on Tate Street, or was on Tate Street.

Elizabeth H.: It was on Tate Street.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, recently closed.

Scott Hinshaw: All right, so the fall of 1964 was your first semester, correct?

Elizabeth H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Scott Hinshaw: And it was also-

Elizabeth H.: No.

Scott Hinshaw: Hmm?

Elizabeth H.: I started in January.

Scott Hinshaw: In January, right. Okay. Well, the fall of '64 was the first semester for UNCG as a co-educational school. Do you remember seeing many men in 00:14:00your classes or on campus?

Elizabeth H.: Yes, there were men there the whole time I was there.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Not a lot, but there were some there. I was trying to think, I think in my junior and senior years, there was even actually one in my class, in chemistry major.

Scott Hinshaw: Right, just one?

Elizabeth H.: Yeah, I think he came from ... I can't remember whether he came from Chapel Hill or State, but he did. So, we had one actually in the chemistry department. Which was very small number of chemistry majors.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So was the proportion the same in all the other classes as well? Was it fairly unusual to have a guy in your class?

Elizabeth H.: No. I don't know, I'm trying to remember. There were some around 00:15:00there were not many.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: But I think men took advantage of it as soon as they could because it was an opportunity for some of them who lived here and also again because it's a state school and it wasn't outrageous for price, so yeah I think they took advantage of it and that was good.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, so chemistry was your major and you said you did that because you fell in love with it in high school.

Elizabeth H.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Scott Hinshaw: Did you have favorite professors, particularly in your major? Or outside your major?

Elizabeth H.: Yep, I did. Let me find my notes here.

Elizabeth H.: I already mentioned Ms. Hood in the library. She was somebody that I learned a lot from her and enjoyed working with her.

Elizabeth H.: Some of my chemistry professors, Dr. Pewterbough was the organic chemistry professor and head of the department. He wasn't head of the department when I came, it was all female when I came, the first year I came. But a lot of those retired, because they'd been there a long time and when he came, I think a couple of other men came with him and then gradually there were men and women professors. But he was a really good professor. I only had Dr. Schrader who was teaching qualitative organic chemistry was a good teacher. I had Dr. Marble, that was a lady who'd been here for a long time. She was an organic qualitative and quantitative and she scared me to death at first. She was extremely strict. 00:17:00But it turned out that she was strict but she was very determined and a really good teacher, demanding of things being done right. Get it, you know, do it until you get it right. So in the end she was a really good teacher.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: So those were some of the ones in the chemistry that I like -

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: ... the best.

Scott Hinshaw: Can we talk about, did you notice any changes? You said Dr. Pewterbough became the department head, and a lot of the older faculty were retiring or moving on and then you had [inaudible 00:17:49]. Do you recall any changes in your time there -

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: ... in types of courses they offered. Was there changes in the curriculum?

Elizabeth H.: I don't know as there was so much changes in the curriculum because it probably was mostly the same I think. But I did notice a difference in the attitudes sometimes. The person who was the head of the chemistry department when I came sat me down and told me that there was no way I could get a major in chemistry and a teaching certificate at the same time. It was not enough time. Excuse me.

Scott Hinshaw: For you particularly, or-

Elizabeth H.: For anybody.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, that's interesting.

Elizabeth H.: And so that of course made me determined that it would happen.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: So it did but Dr. Pewterbough didn't have that attitude.

Scott Hinshaw: But wasn't most of the program, in years prior, dedicated to 00:19:00teaching chemistry too?

Scott Hinshaw: No, okay.

Elizabeth H.: I don't think so. I think it was whatever you wanted to do with it. Some people were wanting to be teachers. Some people who were chemistry majors were going into medical technology kinds of works and things. I think people have a strange idea sometimes about what was UNCG. It was a woman's college.

Scott Hinshaw: So really it was more science based in your opinion, than education focused that the curriculum at that time?

Elizabeth H.: Well they had the education department and the chemistry department was focused on teaching chemistry, not teaching you how to teach chemistry.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: And then the education department was where you got ... So I had to take a good many courses, a good many of my electives were used up taking education courses. And I keep pointing that way because they were usually in Curry.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: So in the end, I-

Scott Hinshaw: So basically it was like a double major really?

Elizabeth H.: Well I guess.

Scott Hinshaw: To an effect, and I don't know if they had them then and you didn't get -

Elizabeth H.: No, no.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: You had to get those courses in addition to your chemistry degree and take a teaching test for teaching in your field to get a teaching certificate to be certified to teach in North Carolina.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Like I say, that ate up a lot of my electives, so between the education courses and in your first two years you've got to take English, you've got to take history, those years and things like that. But also at that time, if you were a chemistry major, your advisor automatically told you the language you would take would be German. And the math, you'd take some calculus and things 00:21:00too. So I didn't have a lot of-

Scott Hinshaw: Free, free classes.

Elizabeth H.: ... free electives.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: I remember classical civilization, which was interesting and criminology which was great. We went to the women's prison in Raleigh and we went to the SBI lab in Raleigh.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: Which was really cool.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, that's awesome. Is there anything else you want to talk about for your chemistry major, or the department?

Elizabeth H.: Mm-mm (negative).

Scott Hinshaw: Okay. And you've already talked a little bit about your library job. Is there anything else you want to talk about in that area?

Elizabeth H.: No, just that it was great and I really enjoyed working in the library.

Scott Hinshaw: And did Ms. Hood still want you to be a librarian even when you were teaching?

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: Did not want to go back to school.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: Like I said, she was great.

Scott Hinshaw: Well, let's talk about some campus traditions. There've been a lot of campus traditions from the Woman's College days.

Scott Hinshaw: Sorry.

Scott Hinshaw: They were sort of dying out about the time men arrived on campus. Do you recall any of the campus traditions, like Rat Day, or Jacket Day, or Ring Day? Do you remember any-

Elizabeth H.: I really don't. I think most of those were before my time.

Scott Hinshaw: Really on the way out.

Elizabeth H.: That they were, yeah. And so I can't really tell you much about them.

Scott Hinshaw: Now you did get a class ring, right?

Elizabeth H.: Yep.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, so there wasn't a big ceremony or you didn't participate in the ceremony though?

Elizabeth H.: I don't remember there being a big ceremony. If there was, I must have been in the library working.

Scott Hinshaw: You were probably working. Okay, yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: You once told me an interesting story about the swimsuits that had to be a holdover from the Woman's College days. Can you tell us about that?

Elizabeth H.: I can.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: When you took swimming, you didn't provide your own swimsuit. They had them in there and laundered them and everything there and so when you went in for your class, you went to this window where a person was and they gave you the swimsuit and they were color coded by size.

Scott Hinshaw: That's terrible.

Elizabeth H.: As we went through and went out to swim, we all knew what size everybody was if we couldn't have told anyway. And the swimsuits were those things that you know had, just a no support of any kind.

Scott Hinshaw: Sure.

Elizabeth H.: Of course, I guess that was okay. There weren't any men in the things.

Scott Hinshaw: I was going to ask, were there men in the class too?

Elizabeth H.: In my class there weren't so I don't know what they would have worn. I'm sure they wouldn't have made them wear those. But anyhow at the time I 00:24:00thought that was not quite quite.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: The other thing that you had for regular PE classes was ugly. It was a white one-piecer.

Scott Hinshaw: Right. Now we might have one of those in-

Elizabeth H.: You probably do.

Scott Hinshaw: [crosstalk 00:24:20] in the archives. But we don't have any swimsuits. I guess they're -

Elizabeth H.: I don't know that anyone kept any of those.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: They didn't. It wasn't anything you wanted and underneath that one-piecer was a thick, heavy bloomers.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Elizabeth H.: Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, we have one of those. That's neat. But it would be neat to see the swimsuits. I'm sure they were -

Elizabeth H.: No, they were just plain.

Scott Hinshaw: ... just tossed long ago.

Elizabeth H.: Hopefully they're gone.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah. Do you have any recollections of the chancellor, or other administrators at the time?

Elizabeth H.: I told you about ... Well, no I didn't. The financial aid officer that I worked with was really, really helpful and very kind. But as far as the 00:25:00chancellors and things, we knew and saw but we didn't really interact with them. Or maybe I should say I didn't really interact with them. So I can't tell you a whole lot about them.

Scott Hinshaw: No, that's not unusual. We always ask everybody, but they're like, "No."

Scott Hinshaw: Now tell me about your fellow students. What type of student attended UNCG at this time?

Elizabeth H.: I have to say they were all different kinds of students that I think were here at UNCG. Some of them that were serious about getting an education, that was me. Some of them who were here because their parents insisted that they go. There were black students. There were students from other countries.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Several different other countries, which wasn't unusual to me 00:26:00because I always thought Greensboro was fairly diverse as far as having people from different countries. I mean I knew people in town there were of course black people, there were white people, there were Asian background people. So that wasn't odd to me to see all the different people there. I did have one professor I can't remember I think he was from India, and when he came to the library, he and I always had a hard time because with his accent and my accent, it usually took us two or three times before we understood what it was that he wanted and I could go get it.

Elizabeth H.: But it seemed like to me that was a normal thing. And the men 00:27:00coming didn't seem to be a big thing either. I think they'd always been perhaps some graduate in, but.

Scott Hinshaw: All right well I think you kind of answered this question with that, but did you think of UNCG at that time as an inclusive and accepting place?

Elizabeth H.: To me it was, yes. There are always some groups who are not inclusive, but they weren't my groups so that didn't matter to me. But on the whole, I thought it really was. People that worked on campus were always helpful. Other students were helpful. Most professors were helpful. Not all, but most. You were talking about the students, what kinds of students were here. I 00:28:00wanted to mention to you that one of the most insulting things I ever heard about that was when I came back for a physics class after I was teaching.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: There were some men in that class that thought women came to UNCG to be wedded and bedded.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Yeah, I've heard that before.

Elizabeth H.: Or bedded and wedded, whichever way that goes.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: And you can be sure that I straightened them out about that. Because I was really, really insulted by that.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: There probably were some people who were there, but not the majority of them, at all.

Scott Hinshaw: All right.

Elizabeth H.: Just wanted to let you know.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, that's good. It's interesting because some of the yearbooks 00:29:00from the 60's when you look at them, I remember one little caption like a photo montage was from class rings to wedding rings. Like I thought that it's not something you would see today in a yearbook. It was kind of sexist kind of thing to put in there.

Scott Hinshaw: So I can see where some of that was coming from. Is there anything else you want to talk about at UNCG, before we move onto your career after UNCG?

Elizabeth H.: I don't think so. I wanted to get that one in so -

Scott Hinshaw: That's a good one.

Elizabeth H.: No I don't think there is.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, if you think of something later on we can always come back to it.

Scott Hinshaw: So what were your career plans when you graduated from UNCG?

Elizabeth H.: Okay, well like I told you, by the time I had chemistry in high school, I knew that was what I wanted to do. But I couldn't make up my mind while I was in school whether I wanted to teach chemistry or whether I wanted to 00:30:00work in the labs. So I decided that I would do my student teaching and let that decide for me. If I enjoyed that, or not. I did and so that made me decide I would go teach chemistry. Of course if you teach chemistry, you teach physics.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Usually.

Scott Hinshaw: Is that why you came back for a physics class after that?

Elizabeth H.: No I had taken physics while I was here and then at that time the teaching exam that you took, the closest you could get to chemistry was chemistry, physics, and general science.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: So you take the test that covers both of those.

Scott Hinshaw: Yep.

Elizabeth H.: So that made me go teach. And I did enjoy it. I used to always say, it's probably the only job I would take without pay if I could have afforded to.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: Which I couldn't, although it's pretty close to being without pay.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: But I really, really enjoyed teaching because when you look out and see finally this kid that's been struggling and struggling and you see the light goes on and he got it, or she got it. There's nothing quite like that. Or the one that is so bright that they already see. You can see in their face that they see where it's going and they know what it's going to be. So those things are great for when you're teaching somebody so. You probably find this one hard to believe too, but at the time that I was teaching in the Dark Ages, if you got pregnant, you were expected to resign.

Scott Hinshaw: Right.

Elizabeth H.: And then when you were through having the baby and ready to come 00:32:00back to work, then you could apply again.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, you basically had to start all over again.

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah.

Elizabeth H.: And now a days of course, and it shouldn't have been true then either, but at any rate, when I had my first child and then after I had her, teaching had taken up a lot of outside time.

Scott Hinshaw: Of course.

Elizabeth H.: After school and at home and all and with the new baby, I decided maybe I'd try working on lab, which I thought was going to be not so much-

Scott Hinshaw: Outside of time work.

Elizabeth H.: ... outside time to work, yeah. So that was when I went to work at what was then Richardson-Vicks in the analytical lab. Excuse me. And enjoyed lab 00:33:00work too.

Scott Hinshaw: Before you get too far into that, let me ask you a couple of follow-up questions. One, other than school lab experience, you didn't have an internship or something like that with any company?

Elizabeth H.: No.

Scott Hinshaw: And then can you tell me how long you taught in public schools and where?

Elizabeth H.: I taught about three and a half years at Northeast High School.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: In Guilford County.

Scott Hinshaw: All right. Then now let's talk about your next job and how that came about. How did you find out about Richardson-Vicks? Obviously you knew about it because you lived here, but-

Elizabeth H.: Right.

Scott Hinshaw: Did you just see a job advertisement?

Elizabeth H.: Yeah Vicks had been in Greensboro for a long time.

Elizabeth H.: Yeah, at the time I was looking, they were looking so I went to work there in the analytical lab and worked there as a chemist and then senior chemist and then ended up as a Quality Assurance Manager because Vicks and P&G 00:34:00because P&G bought Vicks, but Vicks -

Scott Hinshaw: Do you remember about what year that happened?

Elizabeth H.: I can't remember now baby, I'm sorry.

Scott Hinshaw: That's okay. It was much later.

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: Much, much later.

Elizabeth H.: But because Vicks, and then P&G were making over-the-counter drugs, some people don't understand but over-the-counter drugs have the same legal requirements for manufacturing as prescription drugs. So the FDA regulations, the good manufacturing practices are all written down in detail in laws and if you're going to make any kind of drug or medical device, then you must be sure that you're following those. So the quality assurance department, 00:35:00or the quality assurance part of the business is responsible for writing and developing procedures to ensure that the way it was produced was in accordance with good manufacturing and responsible for ensuring those procedures were followed and so on. So I found that interesting.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Elizabeth H.: Both the analytical work and the quality assurance part of it.

Scott Hinshaw: So you had started as chemist and then senior chemist? Or, were those jobs different from the quality assurance?

Elizabeth H.: Yeah.

Scott Hinshaw: Or were those the same thing?

Elizabeth H.: They were in the-

Scott Hinshaw: Same department?

Elizabeth H.: Chemist and senior chemist were in the analytical lab.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: Which was a part of the quality assurance department. But then I went to being a quality assurance manager, which meant the responsibility for the quality assurance, not just the analytical lab, but the whole works.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay and so was it unusual for women to do lab work at this time?

Elizabeth H.: No, it was not. Even though it was the Dark Ages, it was not unusual. In fact when I went to work there, it was all women in that lab, and over time there was more men came until it was a mixture of both. One good thing about the analytical lab there was that there are so many colleges, good colleges around here so there could pretty good people from A&T, pretty good people from UNCG, from Bennett, from all the schools right around here was-

Scott Hinshaw: Right. Right.

Elizabeth H.: ... a good number of people.

Scott Hinshaw: They never had trouble finding applicants I guess.

Elizabeth H.: Mm-mm (negative).

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, and can you tell me about how long you worked for Vicks and P&G, later P&G?

Elizabeth H.: About 32 or 33 years. I don't remember exactly.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: A long time.

Scott Hinshaw: But it was a good job?

Elizabeth H.: Yes it was, yes it was.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, anything else about your career or chemistry jobs?

Elizabeth H.: No, not that I know of.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay. We're going to go on to the conclusion questions.

Elizabeth H.: Okay.

Scott Hinshaw: So tell me how UNCG has affected your life and what it means to you?

Elizabeth H.: Well I have to say that I always wanted to get to go to college because I wanted to study chemistry and I wanted to be able to do that. So UNCG gave me the education I needed to be able to have the career that I enjoyed, so that was important to me. I had always been sure that I wanted to go to college 00:38:00and since high school, that I wanted to study chemistry. So I guess I was fortunate in that. Lots of people are still struggling to find out what they want to do while they're in college. I always enjoyed helping other people learn, which is of course is the teaching. They had the right courses at UNCG that I needed. They had a price that I could afford with help and they had a reputation for being a good school.

Elizabeth H.: I really mostly enjoyed my time at UNCG. Not everything.

Scott Hinshaw: Of course.

Elizabeth H.: You have courses or professors that you may not get along as well with or something, but overall I was really pleased with UNCG. Learned a lot 00:39:00about classes and I learned a lot about working, a lot about managing my time and money. Money especially. There was very little of it. Interacted with a lot of different people. Especially when you got to interact with people from different countries and to me that was always interesting to know or get to know some of the people from other places. So yeah, I think UNCG was good for me.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay, well this is the last question and it's kind of a reflection question. We are doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary of the University, which is an excellent opportunity for reflection, but also helps us to think about where we are headed in the future. So, what is 00:40:00the future for UNCG? Where do you see UNCG going as an institution in the next 20 to 30 years?

Elizabeth H.: Okay, I've thought about that. It seems to me that UNCG is growing a lot in size.

Scott Hinshaw: Mm-hmm (affirmative), definitely.

Elizabeth H.: You know everywhere, growing everywhere and in doing more different things. So I think that's good. Both of those are good. It seems to me that it's progressing well and expanding and changing in response to the needs of the community and the country and the people to prepare students to be successful in the world and I think that's really spot on for what they need to be doing.

Scott Hinshaw: Yep. So I don't have anymore formal questions. Is there anything that you didn't say that you wanted to say, or anything else you want to add to 00:41:00the interview?

Elizabeth H.: No, I think I got it all.

Scott Hinshaw: Okay.

Elizabeth H.: I can't say this one can I? You can edit it out. I love that you love UNCG and that you're in the library.

Scott Hinshaw: Yeah, it's a great place. I've enjoyed being here for sure. Obviously because I'm still here. Okay, thank you very much.