Oral history interview with Laura Micham, 2018

Koelsch, B.: Today is Monday, May 21st, 2018. My name is Beth Ann Koelsch. I'm in the Rubenstein Library at Duke University with Laura Micham, UNCG Class of 1992. We are here to conduct an oral history interview for the UNCG Institutional Memory Collection. Hi Laura.

Laura Micham: Hi Beth Ann. Excuse me.

Koelsch, B.: I'd like to start the interview by asking you about your background. If you could tell me where and when you were born.

Laura Micham: I was born in 1969, in Cleveland, Ohio.

Koelsch, B.: Do you have brothers and sisters?

Laura Micham: An older sister, called Kathleen who is about four and a half years older than I am.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, And your parents, what did your parents do?

Laura Micham: They owned a mom and pop real estate company in Ohio, including the time that we lived in North Carolina, which was the end of my childhood and where I established, where I had residency at the end of high school, and so 00:01:00went to UNCG.

Koelsch, B.: They sold Ohio real estate from North Carolina?

Laura Micham: My father commuted to work in a way.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, where did you go to high school?

Laura Micham: In South Carolina in a place called Spartanburg Day School in Spartanburg, South Carolina. It was a very long commute. When we first moved to North Carolina from Ohio, my sister and I, were told or had to or it was determined that we should skip a grade. Socially, that proved to be really, really difficult and culturally that proved to be really, really difficult. We went back to Ohio for a time and then came back to North Carolina, which why my parents enrolled us in this college prep school in Spartanburg, which is a long journey from home every day.

Koelsch, B.: How long? What year was this? Where were you in high school?

Laura Micham: I think I was in that school from 5th or 6th grade through high school.

Koelsch, B.: Okay.

Laura Micham: Yeah, and it was a very middle, upper-middle, upper class, straight white, heterosexual, southern place. It was tiny. I graduated with 28, 27 or eight other kids. I was a total misfit in that environment.

Koelsch, B.: In all aspects?

Laura Micham: In all last aspects, as far as I could tell. No doubt there were other people who were hiding aspects of themselves. But as far as that time period and with that culture would allow, what we were allowed to be open about. It was very homogeneous, extremely homogeneous. I didn't really have any friends who were were very much like me. I had friends, but not close friends, you see what I mean? I was distant.

Koelsch, B.: Did you know you were queer then?

Laura Micham: Yes. I had a good sense of it. My first crush was on, I can't 00:03:00believe I'm saying this to you people, I can't say this without laughing. Nadia Comaneci, the gymnast.

Koelsch, B.: That's sweet.

Laura Micham: I was a gymnast, so I had a huge crush on her.

Koelsch, B.: Oh. Well, duh.

Laura Micham: Yeah, and others.

Koelsch, B.: Did you play Nadia's theme over and over and over again?

Laura Micham: I don't know. I don't know if that happened or not. I had a lot of crushes on girls and a couple in particular. I knew that it would be completely foolish to say any of that out loud, either at school or at home or to anyone, so I kept it entirely to myself.

Koelsch, B.: That must have been hard.

Laura Micham: I'm in good company. Many of us had that experience.

Koelsch, B.: That is true.

Laura Micham: I just knew what was expected, especially by the time I got to my junior and senior year. It was much better all the way around just to fly as far under the radar as possible, which I got really pretty good at doing.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, and so why did you apply to UNCG?

Laura Micham: I had in-state residency. I lived in North Carolina. It was pretty clear that I was going to be supporting myself through school. I liked what I read about UNCG, which was not a lot. I mean it was not, there was a pre-internet at the time, so it was not like you could be the savvy traveler about shopping for colleges then as you can be now in many ways. It was on relatively little information. It was mostly that I understood that I could probably pay for it. I could probably get enough jobs to support myself and pay for it. It seemed like a congenial atmosphere.

Koelsch, B.: So you preferred that over Chapel Hill, for example?

Laura Micham: I don't even remember why I was more drawn to UNCG then UNC Chapel Hill. I'm not even sure why that was necessarily the case. I can't, I was trying to place that ahead of this interview, and I can't remember. I think I read something, something that seemed to tip me off, but I honestly can't call that 00:05:00back up again.

Koelsch, B.: Tip you off?

Laura Micham: As to why I was more focused on UNCG than UNC Chapel Hill. I just can't call that back up. It's way back in there and maybe it'll surface during this hour or so.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, and so did you apply to other schools or you were like and one application done?

Laura Micham: I was one application and done. Whatever I read ... I ordered stuff through the mail, because that's what you did then. I also looked at those reference books that you would see in the public library-. I looked at those and whatever else. It just seemed like this was a good place. I knew that I seemed to be able to my grades and whatever else seem to line up with the criteria to get in. High school was hard. I was, I was pretty unhappy all the way around. I just wanted to choose the place that I knew I could go to and that would work out financially and otherwise and do that. It was almost like a job.

Koelsch, B.: You started, matriculated in 1988?

Laura Micham: That's right.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, all right. You've made your decision. It's 1988. August rolls around. What were your first days like? What was your first impression?

Laura Micham: Oh, this is very good. I arrived. I was placed in the wrong dorm and I don't know how. I had already found out ... one of the things I found out during my application process, there was a brand new International Studies Program. I was just really interested in that. That was one of those things that was very different than any experience I'd have in any sense in high school. I wanted to do it. It was a new program. I thought, "This must be be really cool." I was also interested in psychology for a variety of different, mostly misguided reasons. The international studies was like, "This is brand new. This is going to be great." I tried to do whatever was necessary to make that happen over the summer, but it just didn't work out again. It's not the internet world where you can sort these, and even now it's not easy to deal with university bureaucracy anywhere.

Laura Micham: I knew what I had sussed out was that there was a dorm associated with that new program. I get to campus and frankly I just wanted to deal with it myself. I was in that still in that generation of people where mom, dad drop you off, and they're like, "Have a good life." There was no mom and dad stay for a couple of days and get oriented, nothing like that. They were there for an hour. I knew that I was not going to stay in this dorm, so I left all my stuff packed up. I went in search of whoever I could find who could find out, who could link me formally to the International Studies Program. I don't remember all the details of that. I just know that in short order, like within days I was moved to Guilford Hall that had previously, for it's existence, for however long at that point, been a dorm for upper class, male athletes. They turned over one wing, one wing to 18, 18 year old women who were starting in the International 00:08:00Studies Program.

Laura Micham: Yes, it was really, really misguided of the University. As far as we can understand it was because it was across from Mary Foust, which was a special program dorm. They were trying as hard as they could to create a special program dorm across from Mary Foust, despite the fact that the people who live there really didn't want to stop living there or stop having it be the culture that it was. So these 18, 18 year old women ...

Koelsch, B.: Out of how many people, guys were in the dorm?

Laura Micham: It was three floors, two wings on each floor. There were 18 women and then each of the other four pieces, if you will were upper class, male athletes. It was unsafe. It was god awful in every single way. They made it clear to us as we were moving in, and of course I was a few days late, that they didn't want us there. They were going to make it very clear that they were going to do everything in their power to harass us out of there. We decided that we were not going to let that happen.

Koelsch, B.: So very quick bonding, but you guys took it upon ... you all took 00:09:00it upon yourself to fight back versus ...

Laura Micham: We did. Little did I know how formative this would be. One of the first things that happened, I mean this had to be in the first couple of days, because I was determined and I wanted to be in this program. It was in the first couple of days there was still in the first blush, because the rest of the women there were just moving in too, so I know that not much time could pass. I looked out of my window and I saw this guy going around this curve. He was on a bicycle. I could see that he was going really quickly and couldn't see that there was a speed bump. I couldn't get the window open because it was painted shut to say, "Dude." He hit the speed bump, flew off his bike, broke his collarbone. I ran out there. That turns out to be my oldest, closest friend who just came and visited me this weekend, Michael Faoro.

Koelsch, B.: How do you spell Faoro's last name?

Laura Micham: F-A-O-R-O. He ended up transferring, but he was there for the first couple of years of college. We are still close. I carried him in and then took him, whatever, to the health center and all the rest of it. I had already, 00:10:00along with these women, sussed out that we were not safe. This guy, Michael Faoro, is 6'4", and at that point, a skater punk. I didn't have a roommate. I said, "You need somebody to look after you. You're broken. I need a 6'4" skater punk, and so do the rest of these women just to stand up every once in a while and tell the rest of these guys to fuck off. Is that a good deal for you?" He said, "Yeah, I don't like the dorm they put me in." Okay, so I moved him in my room. That was actually not something that was accommodated at UNCG at the time, that I would have a male roommate. I decided that under the circumstances it seemed reasonable and nobody was paying attention, and so that's what we did.

Koelsch, B.: That's great, and how ...

Laura Micham: He was incredible. He was really quite helpful. He was not beating up athletes every day. He would just ...

Koelsch, B.: He was being large and male.

Laura Micham: Yeah, and also, we banded together as a group of women. You get 00:11:00tired of this crap after a while, so I decided ... I didn't realize this. I know this is probably surprising to you, but I honestly didn't realize at the time that I would either be incredibly, deeply feminist or have the ability to speak truth to power. Neither one of those things were available to me as a part of my existence yet. The combination of that experience in that dorm, the first few weeks and the fact that the guy who was running the International Studies Program was this young straight guy who didn't seem to be sensitive to our concerns, brought out of me what in many ways, was incredibly formative.

Laura Micham: We were talking amongst ourselves, these women, about our concerns and our irritations and our worries about our safety and how inappropriate we thought it was that we were placed there. I said, "We should go talk to him." Most of them said, "Oh, we don't want to do that. We don't want it. We just started. We don't want to rock the boat." They decided that maybe I could be a 00:12:00good boat rocker. Again, I had no idea that I could be a good boat rocker. I decided to go and try. I went and saw him and said, "These women have asked me to come and talk to you. These are our concerns. This is what's already happening. This is what we see. These guys get drunk every night. They hit on us, whatever." I didn't mention Michael because my friend, because I didn't want him to be kicked out of the dorm. That was a secret. He said, and I'll never forget this, this is seared on my memory, "Don't lie to me. Every night you go to bed. You fantasize about all of those men. You would never want to be anywhere else but there, because you fantasize about those students every night."

Koelsch, B.: Oh my god.

Laura Micham: "That's what young women do, and so don't complain to me. It's what you want is to be with those male students." It was like I was thrown up in the air and I landed a militant, angry, bitter feminist ...

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: ...int that moment.

Koelsch, B.: I guess no one would expect that answer. What happened next with ...

Laura Micham: I said, "You're wrong." I said, "It doesn't describe any of our experiences. We're genuinely concerned. We'll be glad to go and address our concerns to other people if you don't feel like you can manage that." It just turned out to be an ongoing conversation during which he basically, over the course of time during which I felt like the message she was sending was, he didn't really care if we stayed in the program or not.

Laura Micham: I don't get now having been in academia for 20 plus years, I look back and I think, "He was young. He was probably an assistant professor. Was he forced to do that? I mean what was it? Was it a service gig he didn't really want? What was his calculation?" Which I could not have worked out at the time. I was too young and inexperienced in academia. I still tried to work that out. But suffice to say that most of those women did not stay either in that dorm or in that program. I was one of two women who graduated with the international studies degree in that program. It was partly because, god dammit, I was going to.

Koelsch, B.: Right, did you go over this guy's head?

Laura Micham: I did.

Koelsch, B.: Did they do anything?

Laura Micham: Not much. No.

Koelsch, B.: So you just spent the rest of the year with the drunk jocks ...

Laura Micham: With Michael and ...

Koelsch, B.: ... Michael and the drunk jocks.

Laura Micham: Yeah, and then at UNCG at the time, you had to be on campus for two years. I actually spent two years.

Koelsch, B.: In Guilford?

Laura Micham: Yeah. The second year, there were two, the whole first floor was women instead of only just 1/6th of us or whatever. There were 1/3rd of the ... At least there was a whole floor and perhaps the upper floors were more thought ... I think, for example, they were still men, but some of them were international studies.

Koelsch, B.: So they weren't all jocks?

Laura Micham: Yeah, because I think, Michael in the second year, he joined the International StudiesPprogram just so he could stay in the dorm, I think, and live with some regular dude up in the second floor or third floor or whatever. I have images of going up there and hanging out with them up there. Yeah, so I mean, the dorm got better. I don't know if that was a conscious piece of care work on the part of the administrators or what it was.

Koelsch, B.: Besides your hellacious dorm situation, did you have any other first impressions?

Laura Micham: I don't know.

Koelsch, B.: Second impressions?

Laura Micham: Well, I met the people at Mary Foust. I liked all of them right away. I remember feeling that would be nice. They all seem really liberal, impressive and nice and like-minded and laid back and sweet and all that. I remember thinking, "Dang." But you couldn't just go to Mary Foust, I mean, that was also a thing you had to apply for and all the rest of it. There was a whole application program within a program at UNCG. It was just not ...

Koelsch, B.: You didn't want to try to do it sophomore year or junior?

Laura Micham: I can't remember why, but it didn't make sense. I think it ... I quickly thought, "I'm going to stick with this. I'm going to make it work. I'm going to graduate with this degree just to spite that guy. As soon as I can get off campus, I'm going to move off campus." Which is what I did.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so any other impressions of the general student body or the 00:16:00general atmosphere or professors, general?

Laura Micham: Maybe it's because I was wearing the big invisible yet visible thing on my chest that said, "Queer, feminist, survivor of abuse and harm." Maybe I was just giving off those signals, but I met lots of other queer folks pretty quickly. I don't remember, like I don't have specific memories of that. I just know that we were all drawn to each other really quickly.

Koelsch, B.: In social settings or just ...

Laura Micham: Yeah, but it's not like I didn't go to bars. I didn't really go to parties that much. There was just this group that seemed to gel. It wasn't all queer folks. I mean, Michael's a straight guy, but it was like the continuum of queerness. We were drawn to each other fairly quickly through various means and classes and at the library, I don't know. We just were. I don't ... Too much time has passed to be able to trace that in any kind of a more detailed way, I 00:17:00guess you might say.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, was UNCG what you expected?

Laura Micham: Yeah, I suppose. I was so happy to be away from that high school and away from home and relatively more in charge and with a plan forward. I was good. Yeah, I was not unhappy. My expectations were not huge. I mean, it wasn't like college students these days.

Koelsch, B.: Right, that come in with a plan. Did you say your major was psychology or undeclared?

Laura Micham: I started with psychology and almost instantly, as within hours, international studies. It was my intention even before I got there again. Again, I can't remember. I just remember reading about it that summer and wanting to pursue it. I'm sure I was sent the information by the school, and then within the first semester, probably, maybe the second semester, I discovered the Women's Studies Program.

Koelsch, B.: Did you change over to that?

Laura Micham: I did it as a minor, because it wasn't a major at the time, I think, if I remember correctly. I think international studies was a concentration. I don't know. Maybe it was a major. I think it was a major by the time I finished.

Koelsch, B.: We can look that up.

Laura Micham: Yes.

Koelsch, B.: We have the power. Did you have an idea of what you wanted to do with your international studies?

Laura Micham: Oh yeah, I totally did, which is so funny, because it is ... I mean, it has a lot of nothing to do with what I ended up doing. I really felt that I would become a feminist therapist, counselor person with international, cultural competencies who would work with queer people and immigrants.

Koelsch, B.: Wow, that actually ... That's a plan.

Laura Micham: It's not a bad ... I mean.

Koelsch, B.: No, it's not.

Laura Micham: It's a totally reasonable and fair, appropriate plan. I just, it turns out not the right person to pursue that plan.

Koelsch, B.: That was during your first year?

Laura Micham: Oh, no. I thought that for a long time. I actually got into a counseling program, a counseling graduate program.

Koelsch, B.: Oh wow.

Laura Micham: Yeah, but deferred because I wasn't totally sure. Partly because ... so I applied to it and I really, I had all of the criteria, GRE and grades and everything else and didn't hear it, didn't hear it, didn't hear it. I called the program and said, "What's up?" They said, "Oh, we lost your application, sorry." I said, "Well, does that mean you're not going to consider it?" "No, it looks like you got it here on time according to the postmark." You've got to love those days. "We really, we should consider it." They said, "Give us X number of days." Then they called. This is the MeD program at UNCG, so this is also relevant. I'm sure it was, wasn't here. It was there. They called me and said, "You got in." I said, "Great, so what is the package?" They said, "Oh, we've already given those away, so you'd have to pay for it." I said, "No, I can't do that"

Koelsch, B.: Ouch.

Laura Micham: Yeah, so I said, "How about if I defer for a year, can we talk again about finances?" "Yes, that'd be great." I moved to Dartmouth that year after I graduated. I just knew as time ... I wasn't even sure when I got the 00:20:00acceptance that it was exactly the right plan in the year I was here after graduation.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, do you remember any particular favorite classes? Professors?

Laura Micham: Yeah, so there was ... My faculty adviser was a guy called David Soderquist who was a real character, very funny. I thought, of course that I was interested in all the clinical courses in psychology, right? He was actually ... his focus was on brain psychology. I loved it. I did really well with it, I really enjoyed it. He was very supportive. He was not a modern guy in many ways, but he was very supportive in other ways that were really critical to me.

Laura Micham: Having spent a couple semesters by then or so in women's studies, it seemed a logical thing to do to go to the two women in the department and talk to them about the idea of PhD education in psychology. One of them said to me, "You have to be as much like a man as possible to succeed." That is what she said, and I'm quoting her. That was off putting for some reason. The other one 00:21:00said ...

Koelsch, B.: Do you want to name names or no?

Laura Micham: I can't. I don't remember. I just remember there were two of them.

Koelsch, B.: Okay.

Laura Micham: One women said that the other women who was at least on the surface, seemingly more feminist in some sense said, "Don't, whatever you do, don't do this. It's awful." Okay. So I decided against it, which is why I applied to the MeD, the counseling program.

Koelsch, B.: Wow, did she say why it was awful or just ...

Laura Micham: She said it was just a grinding God awful experience from start to finish.

Koelsch, B.: As a career or as a degree?

Laura Micham: Oh, she said, I mean she said that it was still a male dominated. I told her what my background was and what my interests were. She was like, "It will be an awful experience for you. I'm not going to lie." I said, "Well thank you. I guess."

Koelsch, B.: Wow, so you also ... any other classes? Professors?

Laura Micham: There was a person who taught ... I wanted to take as much as I possibly could, right? Because again, I felt like the curriculum at my high school was all college prep and really homogeneous and really Western and white and male and Southern.

Koelsch, B.: So you're trying to learn everything else.

Laura Micham: I wanted to do everything else.

Koelsch, B.: Got it.

Laura Micham: I did ... There was a time when I was a total, basically wanted to minor in everything under the sun. My sister had to do a little take charge moment and say, "You can't minor in anything else. Stop." I was so excited about every opportunity. There was a class on Russian history and culture, but it was focused on Glasnost and that whole era of post-Soviet, Soviet and post-Soviet Russa. The teacher was fantastic. I don't remember her name. I feel like her first name might have been Stephanie, but she was wonderful and was so incredibly compelling as a teacher. I was learning something that of course I hadn't any opportunity to learn before. It was, of course helpful. In some sense, it satisfied something in my international studies degree, so I loved it.

Laura Micham: Then there was a course I took an anthropology about Jane Goodall, and so of course I developed a crush on Jane Goodall as you would.

Koelsch, B.: As one does.

Laura Micham: That was was memorable. For a time I thought maybe I would minor in that, until I said ...

Koelsch, B.: In Jane Goodall.

Laura Micham: That's right, my degree in Jane. No, but I remember that it was a really good course besides ... Then some of the women's studies courses were amazing. I mean, amazingly, they introduced me to people whose papers are here in the Sallie Bingham Center. The first Robin Morgan texts I read were UNCG. They were really meaningful to me, and also Alice Walker. Both of them in their constructions of bisexuality and their constructions of sexuality in a feminist of ways of thinking about these things were meaningful to me.

Koelsch, B.: Was John D'Emilio there during your [crosstalk 00:24:02]?

Laura Micham: Yes, he was.

Koelsch, B.: Oh my. Did you take it [crosstalk 00:24:06].

Laura Micham: No, I'm happy because you reminded me of something I otherwise might have forgotten. For some class, and I don't know what. It probably wasn't psychology, because most of what I was taking was brain-psych there, so I don't know what I was taking. Although, I took some sociology classes, so maybe it was in that context.

Koelsch, B.: Maybe history? I don't know.

Laura Micham: No, I know he was in history, so here's the story. The back story is that some class I took, there was some content that was about homosexuals. I was stupidly out enough that I ... There must have been something in the coursework and about the fact that the faculty member said, and I will never remember who that is that seemed to call on anybody who might be willing to talk about their personal experience. I stupidly decided that I would offer. I offered. I talked to the class about my experience. Apparently I did it in a way that was useful to that person, because he said, "Have you met John D'Emilio?" I had no idea who John D'Emilio is. Which is why I think of now. That's how I met John was that faculty member introduced us.

Laura Micham: John would never remember me in a year of Sundays of course. But 00:25:00of course, I could never forget him. I took ...

Koelsch, B.: You never know.

Laura Micham: No, I would not expect him to. I really wouldn't. Except that we were on, I started speaking to classes, so I asked as one of the few people who was a matriculating undergrad student who was willing to talk about queerness, but that's not the term we used at the time, to classes. Then I was on, for one of those, I was on a panel with him and somebody else, I can't remember who else. I just remember being star struck by being on a panel with John D'Emilio about this. After one of those, not that one, I don't think that it's, I can imagine why it might've been that one, I came home, that's when I was, I was either a junior or senior and I was living just off campus in a house that doesn't exist anymore. My car had the word dyke spray painted on it.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: Yeah, so the reason I think it could be John was that if he's on a panel, it would be known more than Micham on a panel.

Koelsch, B.: You don't think John D'Emilio did it?

Laura Micham: I don't know. What I'm saying is if somebody wrote dyke on my car 00:26:00as a result of my being on that panel, I mean, it's more likely that would be a better attended panel and more widely attended panel potentially because he was on it.

Koelsch, B.: Got it.

Laura Micham: Therefore maybe one of those, that the word got around, somebody got angry and spray painted dyke on my car.

Koelsch, B.: How did that make you feel?

Laura Micham: A little scared. I wasn't exactly sure. In 19, whenever that was, '90-ish, that was not a happy, welcome to the neighborhood card.

Koelsch, B.: where was this?

Laura Micham: There was a street, I think that it's all really changed now, but there was a city street that was very near the business school, that end of campus. There were little tiny houses on that street. None of them exist anymore as far as I've heard. Michael and a couple of other people and I had a house share in one of those houses.

Koelsch, B.: How'd they know you lived there? Was there a phone book?

Laura Micham: Or somebody was following me?

Koelsch, B.: Oh god.

Laura Micham: I wondered about, that's what I wondered about was that there people following me.

Koelsch, B.: Did you complain to anyone?

Laura Micham: No, because I didn't think anyone would care. I mean, I just didn't think anything would happen.

Koelsch, B.: Did you just drove around with it?

Laura Micham: No, I cleaned it up. Michael and I cleaned it up together.

Koelsch, B.: Wow. Geez.

Laura Micham: I remember it being in some sort of medium that was not as bad as could have been. I was able to wash it off.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, any other class, professors that made an impression? Positive? Negative?

Laura Micham: Yeah, those are the first that come to mind. I mean, I know there were a lot of them. UNCG was a great program. I remember learning and knowing before I got there and even in the early time of being there, there was an emphasis on understanding that UNCG was the branch that was focused on undergraduate teaching and that we should all feel really lucky. UNC Chapel Hill is more famous and seems better in all kinds of public ways, but really they're 00:28:00more focused on graduate students and there are fewer faculty members teaching undergrads. That somehow, sunk in. I mean, I believe that. I had great teachers. I wasn't opposed to having graduate student teachers, but I had almost none. Most of the teachers I had were really good that I remember.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so you had to eat in the dining hall?

Laura Micham: I did.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so did you eat all four years or just ...

Laura Micham: Just the two that I was on campus.

Koelsch, B.: That's a question. Did you enjoy the dining hall food?

Laura Micham: I did not. I was a part of a group that organized around, I was vegetarian and organize around getting vegetarian food in. There were no vegetarian options. I was part of a group that did that. I was actually here again, somehow seem to be the one in the group to be elected the person to be the more public facing person in the group in a very odd sort of way. What we noted was that when we did all of the organizing that you would do on our side 00:29:00of the counter to get food, what seemed to happen is that eventually as a result of all of our efforts, writing letters and visiting a few administrators in their offices, there was a vegetarian entree that was offered. Although, upon actually getting it and try it, it seems like it wasn't vegetarian to us. I was one of a couple of people who got ourselves jobs in the kitchen, so that we could ...

Koelsch, B.: Seriously, as as a detective project.

Laura Micham: ... see what's going on. Yeah, and then I think they worked out what we were doing there. They didn't want us to stay.

Koelsch, B.: What did you discover?

Laura Micham: That was not vegetarian food. It was like mystery meat that they were calling vegetarian food or that one of the things that we thought when we were supposed to do in this case was was to educate, like "Here are the vegetarian forms of protein." We actually need protein. What the heck? We can't just eat ...

Koelsch, B.: Salad.

Laura Micham: Right. Here's some vegetarian forms of protein that would be super awesome for you to have. It's non of the super complicated stuff. Oh, is it 00:30:00going to come back on again? Sorry about that. There we go.

Koelsch, B.: Very cool.

Laura Micham: Potatoes with cheese on them or whatever, you know what I mean?

Koelsch, B.: Right.

Laura Micham: Not super complicated stuff. What we were ... at best, what we were served is boiled vegetables or salad. That was one of the things just to educate about protein. I think that they were irritating and just started just putting animal, putting it in there and covering it with stuff.

Koelsch, B.: Right, so what happened?

Laura Micham: Then we went back to the administrators again and said, "Is there way we can get ..." I know this sounds crazy in this day and age, but, "Can we get a cooler with yogurt or some other ... We're not vegan for god's sake." It's not that hard. This is not that hard. We're not ... We did. Ironically, given my experience when I got to UNCG, all the athletes took all of the foods in the cooler. Micham was angry.

Koelsch, B.: Were you a big athletic event supporter?

Laura Micham: I would not I would say. Those two experiences did sow some seeds 00:31:00or feelings about ... which have been changed and have evolved. There are some nuance now that I did not feel strongly for.

Koelsch, B.: Was it just the male athletes that took the food?

Laura Micham: That's what I assumed. I mean, of course it was probably women too, but we saw them. We would stake out in the dining room and watch them and then try and decide if we felt brave enough to go up and tell them that they this food was also for vegetarians. Mostly they were really big. I didn't feel brave enough to go up and tell them. I didn't want to be tackled away form the cooler to get my yogurt. I started going into the dining hall as soon as it opened in the morning. I'm a morning person, so that was not so bad. Then it became my habit was to be one of the first people there, like nose on the door, so that I could get to the cooler and get the yogurt. Apart from that, I was eating breakfast cereal, which would be dispensed out of these massive towers 00:32:00basically every meal.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: And you know, bread and peanut butter in my dorm room and all that.

Koelsch, B.: Did you have other groups you were involved in besides these ad hoc social-?

Laura Micham: It was all ad hoc. It was totally. I mean my friends were my friends, but there were no organized groups with names that did this. We would just ... those of us who were concerned or otherwise interested would get together and try to make a difference on something. A group of us were quite ... I mean, again, I was doing international studies, right? I was very interested ... One of the great things about the international studies courses was ... one of the fundamental things, this is also going to seem elementary, but for me it was fantastic was that some of these courses taught students how to read international news in English in a way that was savvy. God know the set of skills we continue to need today. I became a big time New York Times reader and International Tribune, all of those, all kinds of news sources. Reading, being a 00:33:00critical, thoughtful reader of news sources was definitely an element of my undergraduate education that I'm incredibly grateful for.

Laura Micham: I knew that what we now call the First Gulf War was going on and was quite upset about it, so was a part of a group of students that did, that led an action in this thing that now looks really pretty in the center of campus. It wasn't pretty when we were there, but this pretty sloping, lovely aspect of campus that's still sort of sloping. When we were there, it was sort of just steps. I can't remember if it was right behind the library. I cannot place it. I should probably try to figure it out on the web. We all stayed there for days at a time and camped there to protest the First Gulf War.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: Yeah, so that was an action that I was a part of. I also was a part of the very first International AIDS Day happened when I was in college. Of 00:34:00course, that's December 1st, which also happens to be my birthday. The very first International AIDS Day, I was a part of an action.

Koelsch, B.: When was that? '90? '91?

Laura Micham: Yeah, it was in the '80s.

Koelsch, B.: Around there, we'll look that up. Okay. Wow, any other groups? No, this is interesting.

Laura Micham: What the interesting thing is that I did not know nor did it even occur to me to imagine that there was an LGBT student center, so I don't know if there even was one then. If there was, I never knew about it, right? I just did the things I did with the people that I knew around the issues that were important to me. It never occurred to me to think that there was a structure, perhaps a program, some formalized something that the university was offering that would make sense to me.

Koelsch, B.: Because you didn't feel the University would support that ...

Laura Micham: It just didn't occur to me.

Koelsch, B.: ... or it didn't occur to you?

Laura Micham: No, I actually think it might be a lack of imagination amongst myself and my friends or we were so anti-establishment and pig headed that it 00:35:00didn't occur to us to imagine that. Again, it's not like ... I liked my faculty, the faculty members, right? I liked, I loved the library. That was my favorite place to hang out, probably on campus. It wasn't that I was hostile at the University in general. I just don't think it occurred to me that there would be structures like that that would exist. I thought we did that informally as groups of undergraduate students. It was interesting to me that I would speak publicly at classes about being gay or being whatever it was I conceived of myself at the time, whatever terms I used and none of the faculty members would say, "Did you know that there was ..." Maybe they assumed that I would know that there's an LGBT center. I just didn't know.

Laura Micham: No, it was all informal. My group of friends and I, usually on Thursday nights often, we would come to Durham and dance at the Power Company, gay club. That's when we ... It was those journeys back and forth to Greensboro when we would stop at the Cracker Barrel, but all the other restaurants of that 00:36:00ilk, Waffle House, IHOP, and sometimes Dunkin Donuts and sing queer songs.

Koelsch, B.: Because there was ...

Laura Micham: Because we knew that there was bad stuff going on where there were queer people who were losing their jobs, and also that there were ... The way that it first came to my attention was that there were gay groups, social groups or whatever groups, who were going out to eat together. They were being hassled by other, at least by other diners if not by the employees of Cracker Barrel. We decided if that's the case, we were going to go in and sing.

Koelsch, B.: Can you give me some names of some of these queer songs?

Laura Micham: Really, they're chants that you hear at rallies. We would do them sing-song. We thought if we were happy and sing-songy that we would be at once 00:37:00speaking our mind and telling people what we thought was important, but also fun and happy and not too intimidating and that they would not be too unhappy with us.

Koelsch, B.: How did it go?

Laura Micham: We were wrong.

Koelsch, B.: You were wrong? I was going to guess that.

Laura Micham: We stayed as long as we could. We made our point and told them what we thought we could tell them. Again, we were so young. We were not nuanced enough to imagine, for example, that the wait staff person who had actually seated us and was listening to us sing, could have have been sympathetic and was actually not one of the baddies. We just assumed that everybody in there was a baddy. If you're there, you've got a beef. That's a problem, right? Again, that's just part and parcel of being super young. We were not hostel with anybody. We would, I remember one Waffle House in the middle of the night. They're very small and ... Do you remember that?

Koelsch, B.: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Laura Micham: We sang and danced, because we've come from the club [inaudible 00:38:0000:38:05] restaurants and into the bathrooms and then stood there for a minute and thought, "I wonder what would happen if we come out." We came out and sang and danced our way back down the aisle. By the time we got to our booth, the folks were like, "Yeah, there's the door."

Koelsch, B.: This was what, like two, three in the morning?

Laura Micham: Yeah.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: "You guys probably want to carry on back to where you're going to."

Koelsch, B.: You didn't necessarily have really ugly interactions.

Laura Micham: Yeah, I mean, we had people yelling stuff at us. Again, stupidly we weren't as scared as we probably should have been. I mean, for example, I don't think it would ever have occurred to me that somebody might have had a gun or a knife or just a desire to physically attack us somehow. I think we had some overly confident feeling about being together as a group.

Koelsch, B.: How big was your group?

Laura Micham: Not very big. It was actually very ... at had a max, four, five.

Koelsch, B.: That's small.

Laura Micham: Yeah, and we were small, some of us.

Koelsch, B.: Okay.

Laura Micham: You know what I also thought? At the time, I didn't have children. I didn't know exactly what I was going to do for the rest of my life. There was some feeling that I think you have as an activist and I was a total child, but when you engage in public forms of protest or activism that if this is how I go, this is how I go. I believe so much. I believe so deeply, so deeply, so deeply in queer liberation. I believe so deeply in feminism. I believe so deeply in passivism. If that's how I'm going to go, believing that out loud in public ...

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: ... that's okay. I wasn't really scared. I mean I'm not saying that to valorize myself at all. It was also part and parcel of being young and stupid and not imagining that I had a future that was all that important. All I 00:40:00was was that moment.

Koelsch, B.: Did you think you came to UNCG that way?

Laura Micham: Yeah, I mean I was pretty unhappy in high school. I had a lot of built up stuff that I wanted to get out of myself that I couldn't even identify in high school about being all the things that I don't think were acceptable in that high school.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so you did a lot of activist work. Were you involved in any other, like chess club?

Laura Micham: No, I don't think I had a lot of time for that.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, all right. For fun you went to the Power Company. What else?

Laura Micham: There's some restaurant not so far away from here, but someplace we could walk. I put myself through college, so I didn't have a lot of spare time. I had two majors. I feel, I'm almost certain that international studies 00:41:00was a major at the time I finished it just because of the feeling of accomplishment of having defied like I wanted. Two majors and a minor, women's studies, there was not a lot of time. Plus that, in order to support myself, I worked as a receptionist in the dorm, and I worked at Edward McKay's Used Books, and I worked for a caterer.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: I started working night shift all night, into the night for the cater. Then I would work at the phones in the dorm. I would work whenever I could at the bookstore. During my summers, I always had jobs too. I never moved home. I always had jobs. I worked as a painter during the first summer, the summer after, I think, after my first year, after my second year. Anyways, so I always had a lot jobs. There was not a lot of spare time.

Koelsch, B.: Did you date?

Laura Micham: Yeah, I did. The only guy I dated was Michael. All the other people I dated were women, but none for long.

Koelsch, B.: Did you feel like you could be out as a couple on campus?

Laura Micham: Yeah, yeah. I usually did feel pretty good about UNCG. For whatever reason, most of the people I met were not other students. The first woman I dated just wasn't, she was just a person who lived in Greensboro. She wasn't ... I think it was at the used bookstore I encountered these people. Again, I must have been wearing the ... I didn't wear, for the most part, shirts that said anything, but I must've given off the vibe, because that's how I met a number of the women that I dated. Only one of whom I think was actually a student at the school, which is a funny story.

Koelsch, B.: Do you want to tell the funny story or not?

Laura Micham: I can only do that if I don't name names, because it's not fair to name names.

Koelsch, B.: You can do that.

Laura Micham: She was .. There was a pretty significant lesbian community. I was not acceptable to many of them, because I identify as bi. That was another thing that was, I believed myself to be ... I continue to believe myself to be, but 00:43:00also I thought it was an important political space to occupy, because I knew that that was an embattled "people hate us" space. Again, I was young and stupid and was like, "I'm going to be there so that I can defend that space." Also, I dated this guy and I really, really, really loved him, so I must be bi.

Laura Micham: Amazingly, the queen lesbian who everybody adored and who was the kind of lesbian who had never ever even thought about a man, let alone slept with a man and who everybody wanted to date and who was in a relationship with an older woman for X number of years and then was single and everybody wanted to date and thought was the most important person in the entire community asked me out. It was like, "Okay, that's cool." First of all, everybody was upset.

Koelsch, B.: How many people are we talking about?

Laura Micham: It was a big ... It was a sizable ... She had a sizable community, because she had a sizable following.

Koelsch, B.: Right, can you just give me an estimate?

Laura Micham: When I would go over her house for gatherings and when she was with her partner, there were always 40 or 50 people there for these parties.

Koelsch, B.: Men and women?

Laura Micham: Mostly women.

Koelsch, B.: Wow, and all UNCG students?

Laura Micham: No, it was a combination of students and community. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Koelsch, B.: Got it.

Laura Micham: She asked me out at the bookstore. I never thought of the bookstore as being as [inaudible 00:44:16]. Anyway, so I said, "Sure. Okay." Of course, everybody knew her. I actually made a joke to her. I said, "Do you know that people are going to be pretty upset about this." She said, "Yeah, I love that. I was thinking about asking you about. Let's just set those people aside. Do you want to go out?" "Sure," I said.

Laura Micham: We're in Greensboro. She decides that she's going to take me out to dinner in Chapel Hill, which I didn't realize until she picked me up. I said, "We're on the way to Chapel Hill." I thought, "This seems a long way to go for a meal." We go all the way to Chapel Hill. I'm like, "Wow, okay." About 20 or 30 minutes into dinner, I thought, "She's great, but I think she's not really ... this is not going to actually go anywhere and that's fine. I'm not worried about that. Shit, we have the rest of the date and all the way back from Chapel Hill through all of those people who are going to be weird about it." We just tried 00:45:00to be cool at the dinner.

Laura Micham: On the way back she said, "Oh, I actually invited some people to the house. Will you come with me to my house and have a drink." I was like, "What is this about?" She said, "Well, I just thought it'd be fun. You could meet maybe some of my friends you've never met before." I thought, I just immediately thought, "No, I don't want to do that because I don't see a future in this. I don't want people to misunderstand. They're already going to be hostile to me. They're going to think that I've been unkind to her." I was befuddled. I wasn't exactly sure what to do.

Laura Micham: So I went. I just remember thinking, "This is all wrong, not good." After a couple of weeks I said, "I really, I hope that you're thinking the same thing I am. That this has been ... I really like you. You're an amazing human being. We're not really meant to date." She said, "Yeah, I see that too, but I have to admit to you that my friends thought we were. There was this big hoopla, and so you're probably going to catch some shit." And boy did I catch some shit. So it wasn't okay to date her and it wasn't okay not to date her back 00:46:00then. Because it was another thing to date her because I'm bisexual. It was not okay not too, because she was who she was. I just didn't understand that I was the luckiest person in the world.

Koelsch, B.: That's her attitude or everyone else's?

Laura Micham: It was a dry patch for me for a while, so [inaudible 00:46:16].

Koelsch, B.: Wow, so when you say that they gave you shit, how would you define "the shit?"

Laura Micham: Oh, I would see them all around town or on campus or whatever. And they'd be nasty. They would just be hostile and make a remark about how I don't understand. "You don't get it. She was the most amazing person. She is the most amazing person in Greensboro who is a lesbian, and you had that chance." I'm like, "Boy, that's my business, but okay."

Koelsch, B.: Wow. Did you have anyone anywhere in the queer community ...

Laura Micham: That was sympathetic?

Koelsch, B.: Yeah, sympathetic, empathetic?

Laura Micham: Yeah, kind of. Yeah, mostly men, not the women. They were very head up about it, the ones that I encountered. The amazing thing was is that I happen to be looking for ... I kept this house the whole two years of junior and 00:47:00senior year after I moved off campus. Michael transferred. Our other original housemates went out and did their own thing. There were occasions where I needed housemates. We really did get along well. It was totally fine. We were just not meant to date, no big deal. I said, "You need a place to live." I called her and I said, "I know this is going to be strange after all that craziness, but I need a housemate. I think you and I get along really well." She said, "Yeah, actually I think we do. That would be great. I do need a house." She moved in with the partner who is still her partner.

Koelsch, B.: What were your proudest accomplishments or contributions during your time at UNCG?

Laura Micham: I think having whatever it took to go to ... The first one was going to the head of the, the titular head of the International Studies Program and telling him what I thought we needed to tell him and then pushing back when he made that super, god awful, inappropriate remark. I think that was important 00:48:00and trying to be supportive to all those women and say, "Band together, we can overcome." Also to say, "If you want to bounce, I get it too." Right?

Koelsch, B.: Right, this is your first year.

Laura Micham: Yep.

Koelsch, B.: Doing this first week or so.

Laura Micham: First semester. I felt really good about that. I felt really good, I guess, about all the activism we participated in in opposition to the First Gulf War. We were making it up as we went along.. We were such puppies. What I don't remember was that there were people, faculty or your staff or otherwise on campus who were mentoring us in that. They could have been there. Maybe it's my faulty memory, I totally am open to that. In my mind's eye, it's all students trying to figure out how you do a protest in a space at a college campus to say, "This is what we believe." But the same thing for the feminist activism and the queer activism I did. I felt good about that. I felt like it was the, what I had been waiting all my life to be able to do. I am grateful to UNCG for being 00:49:00whatever it needed to be to allow me to do it or make it possible or whenever. It was the right chemistry, the right combination of things.

Koelsch, B.: You didn't get any blow back from the administration?

Laura Micham: I don't remember it.

Koelsch, B.: Security?

Laura Micham: I don't remember. Isn't that great? I don't.

Koelsch, B.: That is good. Okay, did you have any thoughts on the Chancellor Moran at the time?

Laura Micham: I don't. I didn't.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, do you have any thoughts on our current Chancellor Gilliam?

Laura Micham: I don't. My only campus activism is about the vegetarian food in the dining hall. Everything else was about ...

Koelsch, B.: [crosstalk 00:49:43] Bigger social issues. Okay, so before you came to UNCG you were out to yourself, but were you out to anyone else?

Laura Micham: No, nobody.

Koelsch, B.: All right, so you said that you felt like the atmosphere was okay 00:50:00for LGBTQ students?

Laura Micham: Yeah.

Koelsch, B.: Did you know about UNC Gay?

Laura Micham: Yeah.

Koelsch, B.: Before you came?

Laura Micham: No, but I did while I was there.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, and were there any official campus groups that you were a part of or that you knew of and weren't a part of?

Laura Micham: I can't remember, probably. Not the student center. I never knew about that. There were probably, probably were. I just can't pull that out of my head. I knew, especially lots of gay men on campus. Most of the lesbians I knew were in the community or not necessarily on campus. Most of my friends on campus were gay men. My queer friends on campus were gay men, young gay men who had difficult childhood for the most part, and were in a lot of pain. We commiserated over that.

Koelsch, B.: Did you talk about or did anyone know about the 1982 ...

Laura Micham: I didn't.

Koelsch, B.: ... incident where Kenneth Crump committed suicide?

Laura Micham: No, I didn't.

Koelsch, B.: Didn't talk about that? Okay.

Laura Micham: I didn't know.

Koelsch, B.: You didn't know about it, sorry. Were there any places on campus that you felt most comfortable?

Laura Micham: The library.

Koelsch, B.: The library. Was that you personally or was that a good queer space?

Laura Micham: I mean, I can't speak for anybody else. I mean, it was, I loved it. I was a geek for it. That was another thing I didn't realize, I used to, yes, sit around. I did what queer folks do in the times of yore. I would sit around with reference books and other books and look up queer people and queer things and find the queer stuff. I loved the library for having that. I mean, not the same sense that it would have it now or that we collect it here, whatever. The library has always been ... the library writ large has always been a place that LGBTQ folks, one of those places go to find themselves and I did. I loved it. What I found was of course how nutritious it was to find that, how incredibly, incredibly satisfying it was to find that, which then instilled in me a huge pleasure in just that research process. I loved it. Then only long, 00:52:00long after that occurred to me that there would also be pleasure derived in providing services in a reference way.

Koelsch, B.: Did you find all of this material by yourself or did you have any help with ...

Laura Micham: For the most part by myself.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so you ...

Laura Micham: But then, once I got my courage up, I would ask here and there of librarians, but mostly it was myself. Because I was still really worried about it. I mean, you speak a word, you don't know how they'd react. I don't remember any negative experiences. I just remember them all being professional.

Koelsch, B.: Did you have a place you liked to hang out in the library, like a physical space?

Laura Micham: I liked ... I was careful, so I was a part of that self defense, take back the night sort of generation. I was very careful not to be in the stacks by myself and all that. I knew all those things. It was mostly in more public areas. Again, I liked the reference area. It was really big back then. 00:53:00It's not the same as they are now in university libraries. It was super big. I would geek out on the reference books.

Koelsch, B.: That's very sweet.

Laura Micham: I did international studies and psychology and women's studies, so there were all kinds of different reference books for all those different topics. I explored them all.

Koelsch, B.: Reference books?

Laura Micham: I was destined to go to library school, I think, though I had no idea. No, not the blindest clue about it at the time.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, we'll get to that. Just a few more things about campus or on campus. Where there places off campus, you said you didn't go to bars, but did you know of queer bars in Greensboro or other social gathering places? It seems like you most hung out at friend's ...

Laura Micham: People's houses.

Koelsch, B.: ... houses, yeah.

Laura Micham: I was going to say people's houses and the bookstore where I worked. I mean, I could not be out there. The manager was not a cool bean. I had this ... Everybody, all the queer folks who came through there seemed to have 00:54:00the right instincts or most of them anyway, and the ones I knew and everything, and I was careful, except for this one woman who I dated who did not understand what was necessary and important about how she [inaudible 00:54:14] herself there. That was it's own story. It's just I needed the job. I really needed the job, and frankly, I liked the job. I mean, apart from him, I liked all the other coworkers. I liked the job. I liked working in books, obviously. It became my life. I met her there. She was just a firecracker of a person who thought that it made sense just to be out everywhere all the time really loudly. Who cares what anybody thinks. I remember I would take her outside and say, "I get that. I so support it, but I need this job. Could you just be cool in here?" "But we're dating and everybody should know that." "No, please, please."

Koelsch, B.: Did she respect that?

Laura Micham: No.

Koelsch, B.: No?

Laura Micham: No, and so that and for other reasons I finally had to say, "Okay." That and when she, I know you're going to think I'm making this up, but 00:55:00I'm not, when she announced to me in the bookstore that lesbian doesn't mean there's space between two women. I was like, "Okay, let me affect and exit strategy right now." She really said those words. Then I worked as carefully and gently and as compassionately as I could to end that relationship. Sadly, I really liked her a lot. She was lovely. She was finding her own way politically and otherwise, so I got that. I just needed that, didn't want to lose that job. I liked the spaces and our togetherness part of human interaction.

Koelsch, B.: Got it. Okay, let's see. Did you ever feel any specific discrimination while at UNCG? I mean, there was the Guilford jocks.

Laura Micham: And the dude, the faculty member.

Koelsch, B.: Right, and then the dyke on your car.

Laura Micham: That too.

Koelsch, B.: There's that. Anything else we missed or around town?

Laura Micham: Those are the only ones that came to mind when I saw that question.

Koelsch, B.: Okay.

Laura Micham: Technically, the vegetarianism. I mean, that's a kind of discrimination, I guess. I had really had a hard time making that point. We were really treated like we were being ridiculous.

Koelsch, B.: Did that resolve by the time that you graduated in a good way or are you were still fighting?

Laura Micham: I think we were pretty much still fighting it, yeah.

Koelsch, B.: Okay.

Laura Micham: Or somebody was. I had moved off campus.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, is there there any other things you want to talk about? We're going to go post-UNCG, but is there any other UNCG-ish things you want to mention?

Laura Micham: I think that's the, I think that's the stuff.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so you graduated in 1992. Did you know what you wanted to do?

Laura Micham: I thought it did, as I said I did.

Koelsch, B.: Right, you applied to a program that didn't happen. What did you do for the year of ...

Laura Micham: I came to Durham, because that's where I had spent so much of my time. Michael, my best buddy, his family was from here. We spent a lot of our 00:57:00time here during the weekends and really liked the place. I really liked 9th Street. I applied for jobs at 9th Street Bakery and Wellspring Grocery and all those places and got jobs at all those places, so chose 9th Street Bakery, which was an awesome place to work in the early '90s, really, really great place to work, bunch of people who'd just graduated from college and lots of great energy and progressive folks and all that good stuff. I got an apartment with my roommate, I have to really think hard about who that was, within walking distance or so I think, or at least very pretty close by 9th Street Bakery. That was my little life.

Laura Micham: I shared a car with Michael for the first two or three years as he was on campus. He ended up transferring to that design program at State. When he left, so did his car. I bought a car for $500 with my earnings from catering or Edward McKay's Used Books or whatever. I still had that little tiny Subaru 00:58:00hatchback 1980, whatever. That's what I had when I moved here. It was covered in left lane stickers all over the back of it. It was awesome.

Laura Micham: I started my own life in Durham. I loved Durham almost right away. That was part of the reason why I decided that going back to UNCG to this master's program was probably not ... And also I didn't think that the profession actually made sense. What one is told about the beginning of an MeD counseling program is that of course you should not be released into the real world if at anybody, because you don't know anything. So you sort of practice the first kinds of counseling skills that you learn on each other. That was like, "I don't think so." I was still, even though I was a bad ass in some sense. Activist, and I was out, and whatever else, I was not still all that interested in talking about myself to people I didn't know. That was off 00:59:00putting, and maybe it was not an accurate depiction of what would it actually happened, but based on my research that would be the case. Also, I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do except that I wanted to take some more time off.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, so then what happened?

Laura Micham: I worked at 9th Street Bakery. Michael worked there. A lot of other cool folks worked there. I engaged in activism here, which was cool, but in a quieter, trying to figure out what to do way. I didn't think I was going to tell this story. I don't know if I should tell this story Beth Ann. I don't know if I've ever told you this, but I was, unbeknownst I was being ... I don't know if I can tell this story. I was a victim of a crime.

Koelsch, B.: I'm sorry. I didn't know.

Laura Micham: Yeah, a pretty bad one, which changed the rest of my life. I'm not sure if this is the right venue to talk about it, but it is relevant. It was within the first year I was in Durham. I left for a while just to get my head back together again. But I ultimately came back, which was great and met the 01:00:00person who was the original head of the Women's History Archive at Duke. She was working at 9th Street Bakery. I worked at 9th Street Bakery on and off for several years. It was that kind of place. You could go and come back and whatever. Then I had other jobs at the time.

Laura Micham: In fact, one of other great jobs I had is that I inherited, if you will, a business called Dykes Against Dirt. The woman who was running it in whose name maybe you can come up with it.

Koelsch, B.: Liz Fordy?

Laura Micham: Australian woman. I feel like she was an Aussie. [inaudible 01:00:35] of some extraction. She had this business. She had a bunch of clients whose houses she cleaned. Some of the queers. Some of them weren't, whatever else. She called it Dykes Against Dirt. She was leaving to go do a master program program somewhere? I don't remember. Anyway, she was looking for somebody to give these clients to. I wanted the extra money and didn't sleep much back then. I thought, "I'll do that, and I'll do the bakery. I'll earn money as I'm figuring out what to do with my life." So I did that too, which was an interesting experience. Some of those people were, became Duke administrators 01:01:00who I work with in another capacity at Duke. Anyway, now it's all very interesting.

Laura Micham: The person who was the women studie's archivist at Duke was working at 9th Street Bakery at the same time I was. Why would she do that? Because she also was a person who had a lot of energy, wanted to earn extra money. She wanted to, she worked in a vegetarian cafe in an earlier chapter of her life and wanted that experience again and wanted to earn money towards buying a kayak.

Koelsch, B.: Do you want to name her?

Laura Micham: Yeah, Ginny Daley. I'm happy to name her. We fell the conversation and this was in the first year I was out of school, UNCG. I said, "What does the person do who really just wants to spend their life doing some kind of activism for LGBT people?" We weren't really saying queer back then yet, I don't think.

Koelsch, B.: Were you saying LGBT though?

Laura Micham: I probably, I think I was. I'm sure I was good to the alphabet by then. "What do you do? How can you do that and pay your bills? That's what's 01:02:00most meaningful to me. How do I do it?" She said, "Oh, I've got this idea, actually. There's this other thing I do besides carrying into this cafe all the time." She described the women's history archive at Duke. I was just amazed by it. But still, I was doing my Dykes Against Dirt. I was doing restaurant. I was just trying to figure out what I was going to do when she said, "If you ever feel like it, why don't you just come by and visit."

Laura Micham: Then this very bad thing happened to me. I left for a while, but then when I came back into town, I got in touch with her. I said, "Would you still let me come around?" She said, "Yeah, just do." I came around and the collection she sat me next to was the Atlanta Lesbian Feminist Alliance.

Koelsch, B.: Wow, and what year is this about?

Laura Micham: This was about 1993 or 4. Four, it was four. The Atlanta Lesbian Feminist Alliance was a collective from 1972 to '94. They had just sunset it. I did the activism I did at UNCG from about whatever, '88 or '89 to '92. I knew 01:03:00that I was a puppy and didn't know what I was doing. I was looking at the records of these people who did know what they were doing. I fell head over heels over head over heels in love with them, with this material, with this idea that I could do something to preserve this material. It immediately resonated with me, preserve and provide access to this material. Make this material available. Push this material out so that everybody could see it, so that everybody could inform their activism with a historical perspective. It made sense to me full blown, right away that moment, instantly. It was everything. It was like I could not believe that I ever thought about doing anything else. It was so great. I mean Alpha, Alpha me, Alpha [inaudible 01:03:47].

Laura Micham: I worked in this collection for a really long time, for the course of like nine months, which for me at that point was a long time doing anything. While I was doing Dykes against Dirt and working in the bakery. Then I went to library school and continued to work here. I worked at Duke. I worked at 01:04:00Southern Historical. I worked at ... I was one of the very first drill interns, which is an internship in the University Archives at Duke. I was the first reference intern in this other historical collection at UNC Chapel Hill. I set up the very first, e-reference service at this other historical collection. I have amazing mentors here at Duke and there at UNC Chapel Hill. I was extremely lucky. I was extremely lucky that I had worked too many jobs and too many internships. By the time I finished, I really knew about or at least I had really steeped myself in modern manuscripts and especially in women's and LGBT history.

Laura Micham: The first job I got was modern manuscripts, but it had nothing specifically to do with those other two things. I decided as I had decided in different ways and different chapters of my life, I will make it that. Who cares what these people think or what this job description says. I will make it that, 01:05:00because Ginny Daley said, "She showed me. I see for my own experience that women and gay people are written out of historical records." I got this degree. I know how to undo that. I know how to fix it. I'm going to do that. I kept proposing projects and doing projects that were on those topics. I noticed that almost none of the manuscript collections where cataloged onto OCLC, which was what the institution was doing, my very first job. I did all that. I cataloged every single, solitary one of them with OCLC, which is sad for them, because I'm not a great cataloger, but now they're there. I did a number of different women's history projects while I was there.

Koelsch, B.: And this is at Chapel Hill?

Laura Micham: This is at ...

Koelsch, B.: Southern Historical?

Laura Micham: No, it was actually after all of those. It was my first professional job at University of Toledo in Ohio. I went to Emory. Again, my job there was Coordinator of Public Services in the Special Collections Library, which again doesn't really say anything about women or queer people. I was going 01:06:00to do that. I had a boss who said, "If you can do everything that you have to do in this job description and you still have energy for more ..." you would appreciate her. She said, "You look like you do, your affect suggests that you might." I had a lot of energy still then. "Then tell me what you want to do and maybe I'll support you, because I'm interested in women's history too."

Laura Micham: And so I did. I did all kinds of projects, conferences, and workshops and all kinds of different library instruction about all these topics. I uncovered and excavated all of these materials that I had not really been called attention to before in the collection, which was great. She supported me. I worked with the Women's Studies Department at Emory, which was particularly exciting because it has a PhD program in women's studies, which is very unusual. I got very close to all of those people too. I'm very grateful to Linda Matthews, the head of Special Collections at Emory at the time for giving me the space and the time. Frankly, she gave me more than just after 40 hours. She gave me real space and time and resources to do it, which was pretty, pretty awesome 01:07:00and probably was why I was successful candidate here.

Laura Micham: I was recruited, the job came open. My current job came open at Duke. I never thought it would, never in a million years. It's one of only a handful of jobs like it in the country and had a special friend] here at the time, Robert called me and said, "This job is open. I've been paying attention to your career. I remember when you were here. Would you apply?" I was so happy at Emory and so happy in Atlanta. "Nah, I'm good." He called me again. He said, "No really, you should apply." I said, "I'm not really sure I want to give up when I'm happy doing and I like my boss and all that." He called me a third time. He said, "Just do it. Just do it. There's nothing you can lose here. Just come." Okay.

Laura Micham: So I did. It was a terrible, god awful, very bad experience of being a quasi internal candidate to Duke, just really ridden hard and put away wet that day and didn't feel ... I felt like I must've been everybody's afterthought. I did not feel like anybody was interested. I didn't feel like I had any chance at the job. I remember having had experience in Durham, I drove 01:08:00from Atlanta to Durham. I was really happy to be here again. At the end of the day, I thought, "Well, I'm not going to get a job, but it's great to be in Durham again." I went to, oh crap, what was it called? Fowlers? Is it right? Had a beer or whatever somewhere nearby there at a bar and thought, "Well, at least I was back here. That was cool." Then I drove back to Atlanta and thought nothing will ever come of this. Then I was offered the job. It was shocking to me.

Koelsch, B.: What year was this?

Laura Micham: 2002.

Koelsch, B.: What is your official title now for the record?

Laura Micham: My official title is that I am the Merle Hoffman Director of the Sallie Bingham Center for Women's History and Culture and the Curator of Gender and Sexuality History Collections in the David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library at Duke University. I have two business cards.

Koelsch, B.: So to be continued?

Laura Micham: That's right. No, I'm very, very lucky. Ginny Daley, the person I mentioned earlier, worked with, she created the Sallie Bingham Center. She also 01:09:00worked with the whole wide range of LGBT and sexuality history collections as well. The person between us, the permanent director between us, did not. She focused entirely on Bingham Center, which was fine. When I can here, little surprised her to know that I knew Ginny and I knew she did that. I said, "Is there room for me to do the queer stuff too?" "Yes," they said, "That would be great." I said, "Good, because I want to do that."

Laura Micham: It's been fantastic. It's been really wonderful. I can't imagine not working with the whole umbrella. But the wonderful thing about the Bingham Center is even from its very beginnings in the middle 1980s we had four areas of collecting, four. That really means that we're spending 25% of our time more or less on each one of them. One of those four, starting in 1987 or eight when we started was called Lesbian Life and Culture. Yeah, that's a huge proud, 01:10:00wonderful, deep, fantastic and amazing focus of what we do here, which I love.

Koelsch, B.: Hoorah. Just a few more UNCG questions. Have you been involved with the school since you graduated?

Laura Micham: I haven't really.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, have you been involved in organizations, I mean your job is I think, activist in and of itself. Any professional organizations? Community organizations?

Laura Micham: Well, professional organizations, of course. All the ones you would expect. I'm in RBMS, American Library Association Rare Books and Manuscripts Section person. Even though, well, it's not relevant to this interview, that wasn't exactly the obvious organization for me to join. I joined that as a result of a particular set of circumstances, but I don't regret it. It's awesome. My job really is as much rare books and other print materials as 01:11:00it is manuscripts and archives, so that's wonderful.

Laura Micham: In terms of other kinds of organizations, the trick is or it has been, that I feel like I have to be in this very specific piece of territory where I can and do and have gotten completely committed to advocating for all of my donors whoever they are, the feminist, the queer people, the non-feminist, the non-queer people. I also represent Duke, so I can't really join any of the organizations. I've been asked over the years, a number of times, to join .... Joining maybe their boards is something I've done, is not outside the balance. Joining the organizations as a member is not a possibility, because it's, to my mind, a conflict of interest would be the person who documents their history and represents the institution and documents their history and has a contractual relationship with them around their records and all those archival things. I've not joining any organizations around here, which is sad because they're a bunch 01:12:00of really awesome ones that I'm wouldn't have minded joining.

Laura Micham: As often as not, I go and March in the gay pride parade. I go to the shows at the Common Women Chorus. I do all those ... I mean, I do a wide range of things with the community. I just actually, they were so lovely, the Common Women Chorus, asked me many, many more times than most organizations to join. Really the main reason I couldn't do that it was I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I kept telling them, "Really, this is not good for you." We had such a lovely rapport. I love them.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, how have larger issues in the nation, like the Supreme Court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage or the passage of HB-2 affected you?

Laura Micham: I think, for the most part, I focus on how they affect the donor's of collections of funds as well, of course, because we have some of those, but 01:13:00donors of collections for the most part and how their lives are affected. Also, how I can foreground all of those issues in the professional organization of rare books and manuscripts organization in which I practice and obviously in my work. In 2015, when that Supreme Court decision was made I had the joy and the honor of co-chairing the Rare Books and Manuscripts Section Conference, which doesn't sound like much, but it's actually a 565 person international conference. Part of the focus of that conference took in the idea of queer archives and activists archives. I was the program co-chair. I could do that. I got a lot of people on board who were also interested in doing that. I would say that that was one of the first conferences in our organization that took on those.

Laura Micham: The Society of American Archivists, I've been doing that for some time and certainly state archivist organizations have been doing that for some time. For RBMS, which was a pre-1801 rare book organization until more recently 01:14:00than I care to admit to do a modern activists archival oriented conference in 2015 was actually pretty revolutionary. It was my ... We shared the speaking duties at the conference. I happened to be, and it was choreographed ahead of time, the person who was going to be the person of the leadership to speak after the Supreme Court decision was made.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: I was introducing Chris Bourg, who was the keynote speaker that day. Chris Berg is a very important person in our profession. I know a person who was steeped in some amount of controversy that's partly because she is so courageous and willing to do and say what she believes in. She's now the Director of the Libraries at MIT, but a very outspoken queer librarian.

Koelsch, B.: Is it C-H-R-I-S.

Laura Micham: C-H-R-I-S and then Bourg is B-O-U-R-G.

Koelsch, B.: Thank you.

Laura Micham: I had asked her long before to be a speaker in the conference. She 01:15:00agreed to do it. I knew she would be a very outspoken advocate for all of the issues that are very important to her about diversity, equity and inclusion in libraries and library leadership and queer librarianship and the whole nine yards. That's what I wanted. But it was my task to get up and welcome everybody and introduce her. I knew, I know my colleagues, I mean, it might have been a pre-1801 book group for most of its history, but it's a pre-1801 book group that first of all has a huge number of gay men and the huge amount of older gay men who are in long term relationships with other gay men and plenty of women in relationships with women. I got to stand up and try not to cry as I talked about it.

Laura Micham: I could cry just thinking about it, about what we were all experiencing. I looked out in this audience of 500 people. I saw that everybody gay, straight and everybody in between was elated, like everything is possible now. Love wins. I got to say, "Love won." It was before November of 2016. We believed it. We believed it. We still do, but it was easier to believe then. I 01:16:00got to introduce Chris Bourg who came up and put her arm around me and talked about what it meant to her and the fact that to be ... She's a firecracker. She was like, "Look, I'd rather actually be with my wife, but if I'm not with my wife, I'm glad to be with you guys. I can see what this means to you. I can celebrate this with you all and it's incredibly meaningful, because I can see how important, meaningful it is to you as it is to me." We spent the first part of her, she spent the first part of her keynote talking about that. Everybody loved it.

Koelsch, B.: Wow.

Laura Micham: Loved it. There was not a dry eye.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, two more questions. Tell me how UNCG has affected your life and what it means to you?

Laura Micham: Well, I mean, I haven't thought about UNCG so much in years. I appreciate, very grateful for this opportunity and to refocus on the fact that it was a much more formative time. I think, it's not that I have not given it credit for that. I simply haven't thought about it a long time, 30 years is a 01:17:00long time from when I started there. I'm glad to have had this opportunity to reflect on how great it was to have a space to become the person that I couldn't be in high school, which was then the foundation for what I would because afterwards, which is so far from perfect and still trying to figure out so many things, but so much more than I thought was possible when I graduated from high school.

Koelsch, B.: We're doing these interviews as part of the 125th anniversary of the University, but also helps us think about the future besides reflecting on the past. Do you have any concept of where you might see UNCG going as an institution in the next 25, 30 years?

Laura Micham: I don't know. I mean, so I spent my life working with undergraduate students, right? I mean, this is my life here. I want all 01:18:00institutions of higher learning, but of course alma mater, to rededicate themselves to all of the things that we hold true and understand to be possible from higher education, especially higher education for marginalized people, all first generation college students, working class people, people of color, queer people. We exist to make everything possible for them. That's why we're here. That's what we need to continue to redouble our commitment to and our efforts to be a part of and to make possible in every different way that we can. I know that UNCG can do that, because it did it for me. I want it to continue to do that.

Koelsch, B.: Okay, I don't have any other questions? Anything that you wanted to add that I didn't cover?

Laura Micham: No, I think I covered a lot of territory.

Koelsch, B.: Okay. Well, thank you, Laura.