Oral history interview with Eugene E. Pfaff, 1990

AP: I'm here today with Dr. Pfaff [unclear] want to test it out, just to see?

EP: Yes, I'll be - can you hear me?

AP: Where were you born?

EP: I was born in Pfafftown, North Carolina, which was a little Moravian village -

AP: - and after school there, went on to [The University of North Carolina at] Chapel Hill. And then from Chapel Hill -

EP: I graduated from Chapel Hill in three years, 1930. And then I went to teaching, and I taught three years in the public schools. First year was a village called Pleasant, Mount Pleasant, which is near Salisbury [North Carolina]. And I taught there for a year, and then I went to [unclear] Wilson in the eastern part of the state and taught two years. All that time I spent my summers at Chapel Hill doing graduate work. Then I got a fellowship at Chapel Hill to continue my graduate work, that was '33, '34, and finished up an MA. I'd 00:01:00had two years of graduate work. And then I got a fellowship to Cornell University [Ithaca, New York]. I wanted to go there because two of the leading historians in this country, Carl Becker and Godwin Smith would be my professors there. So I went there, and when I finished two years there, I got a PhD in 1936, summer. And then I was twenty-three years old, and I came to Greensboro as an instructor. So that's the story. [laughs]

AP: That's the saga. So you had - did you come back home because you were a native of North Carolina?

EP: Partly. I had an offer of a job in Mississippi. And I rather preferred North Carolina to Mississippi, especially since the man who offered me the letter said, "We would like our history taught Mississippi style."

AP: Oh my. Do you have any idea what he meant by that?

EP: I have a number of fears. This helped me decide to come home. [laughs]

AP: I see. [laughs]

EP: But I was so weary of the snow and the ice in the North after two years of it. You realize that it got down to 26 below zero, and can you imagine a North Carolina boy - I mean, you know, I was frozen most of the year. [laughs]

AP: Yes, Carolina would be a good bit milder than that. So did you - when you came here, did North Carolina seem that progressive to you or did we seem in the Dark Ages then?

EP: I wouldn't say Dark Ages. I mean, you know, after all, I grew up in this area myself and to call it Dark Ages is kind of insulting. No, I thought we had a long distance to go, I'll put it that way. And I felt - I feel, and I still feel that way to this day, I was somewhat on the conservative side of things, which explains the kind of people they send to Washington [DC] these days.

AP: I see. We can cut this tape off at any time. [laughs]

EP: [laughs] That's all right, I don't really mind. I have been a Democratic Party precinct chairman in my day, and I know a little bit about the people that are running, trying to get the vote.

AP: When you came to Woman's College [of the University of North Carolina] - tell me a little bit about the administration and about the faculty here.

EP: Administration was [Chancellor] W. C. Jackson [unclear]. When the university consolidated three institutions - [North Carolina] State [University], Woman's College, and Chapel Hill - this happened just before I came; I've forgotten the exact year but it had been maybe two years. And Jackson's title was the first dean of administration. And then they finally got up to calling him president. Now Dr. Jackson was a famous teacher of American history, extremely popular here for years because he was, well, as I said, a very popular teacher. Women flocked to his classes. And our - perhaps 00:04:00outstanding figure was a woman named Harriet Elliott who was the dean of women. She taught some political science too. But she was, I think, a major force at that time. Later was to go to Washington and be on the war commission under President [Franklin D.] Roosevelt. You know about her. She has a rather - a distinguished career. But she and Jackson were, I felt, the keys

AP: What made her so special, spectacular?

EP: Well, she was one of the leaders in women's emancipation, I mean in getting women the vote and in organizing the women. And she was strong enough in that, that Eleanor Roosevelt [wife of President Franklin Roosevelt] came to know her, and that's how she got appointed to a war commission.

[recording paused]

AP: - saying about Dean [Harriet] Elliott and, Dr. Jackson and Dean Elliott.

EP: Well I wanted to talk about [Dr. Benjamin] Kendrick, because he was the 00:05:00dominant historian then and the best known historian. In fact, he taught at