Oral history interview with Collette Coggins and Morgan Owle-Crisp, 2018

Erin Lawrimore: So let's start by having both of you say and spell your name.

M. Owle-Crisp: Okay, Morgan, M-O-R-G-A-N, Owle, O-W-L-E, hyphen Crisp, C-R-I-S-P.

C. Coggins: And my name is Collette Partridge Coggins, and it's C-O-L-L-E-T-T-E, P-A-R-T-R-I-D-G-E, C-O-G-G-I-N-S.

Erin Lawrimore: Awesome.

C. Coggins: That's a long name.

Erin Lawrimore: It is July 2. We are in Canton, North Carolina, with Morgan and Collette from 7 Clans Brewing, and it's seven with a seven number, as opposed to spelled out. Doing their interview for Well Crafted NC. So for both of you, 00:01:00let's get started with a little bit about yourself. Are y'all from around here?

M. Owle-Crisp: I was born on the 32 hundred acre track in Cherokee, North Carolina, and then my parents moved to the Deep Creek area right by the National Park, and so I grew up there. I'm 38 years old. I've been married for 18 years to my husband, and I have a daughter. She's 11.

C. Coggins: I was born and raised in Cherokee in the Birdtown Community, and gosh, she threw out her age...

Erin Lawrimore: You don't have to.

C. Coggins: It's okay. I'm glad to be here at 51. So, no I'm just kidding. I'm 51 years old. I've lived in Cherokee the majority of our lives. I've been with my husband for 35 years. We have two children, a boy that is 29 years old, and a daughter that is 23. We also have lived in Asheville, part of our time together, 00:02:00and then we came back to Cherokee about 26 years ago ... I guess it's been 28 years ago, opened up a business there. We've been back in Cherokee pretty much for the last 28 years operating businesses.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah.

C. Coggins: Different businesses.

Erin Lawrimore: Can you tell me a little bit about... for each of you, what is your title with the Brewery? Do you have a title you've given yourself?

M. Owle-Crisp: We're both owners. I think I'm president and she's vice-president, but we're in this together, so ... It doesn't really matter.

C. Coggins: It's a joint effort.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: That makes sense. So let's talk about how y'all first got started. What interested you in this industry?

C. Coggins: I used to be the alcohol commissioner for the tribe. And so I was kind of on the other side of the river of it, and learned about it and learned 00:03:00about the regulations and all about it, but I was always interested in it.

C. Coggins: We've been friends with ... Have known Travis and Morgan for a long time. Been friends with them for a long time. We were actually meeting with them for our first encounter, we were meeting with them here at BearWaters to discuss some other business adventures that we're doing together. It just came about that we just started talking about how really neat the place was, how much we enjoyed it, how much we enjoyed the brewery atmosphere. What we thought that it was going to entail for the future and the wave of the millennials and things coming up. From that, I think our business just kind of erupted from there. It did it quite rapidly, and it's just kind of all fallen together. I mean, Morgan's done ... I keep looking at her cause I'm so impressed with this, I mean I really have to admit, because the two of us together have worked very hard on 00:04:00it and have had to go at a lot of different angles ... It's been awesome so far, the ride's been awesome.

Erin Lawrimore: When did this idea come about? When did y'all first come up with the let's go with the brewery?

M. Owle-Crisp: Probably that day that we talked. We just ... I've been in the hospitality industry for several years. My husband and I have had four different restaurants, so that was kind of how I was introduced in the craft beer industry. We just decided we were just going to really go for it. We felt like, for Cherokee especially, we saw what Asheville was doing with the craft beer industry and how it'd take an underdeveloped area and you would create this all new economic development around that. So that was what kind of drove us to say, 00:05:00"Okay, let's do this, let's create that." Then we had to figure out how to make the beer, so that was the second part, but we knew that we wanted-

C. Coggins: That was the really hard part.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, that was the hardest part.

C. Coggins: We both have been ... Morgan and Travis have businesses in Cherokee, my husband and I's primary businesses are in Cherokee, and we love Cherokee. My daughter made the best statement ever. She said, "You can't explain what being Cherokee means, because it's different to each individual." We're Cherokee, and to each person that means a little bit different thing, but we wanted to bring our heritage into it. We wanted it to be in Cherokee. We have businesses there. We wanted to try to revive and bring something new to the area that hasn't ... You know, it's an untapped business there in Cherokee. We wanted to be the first women to do it, and to show the younger generations that actually there truly is 00:06:00no bounds on what ... If you want to do something, then if you work hard enough and get out there and you try it, you try and do anything.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

C. Coggins: That's kind of where we ... I mean we discussed it here, and we were like, "Okay, this is what we're going to do." Our husbands looked at us and they're like, "Let's do this."

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

C. Coggins: Travis called the next day, and he's like, "Okay, I've got this, this, and this done, what have you got done?" And I'm like, "Oh, okay, well we've got this and this." And he's like, "We're rolling. Let's go with this."

M. Owle-Crisp: We didn't waste any time. And I think it takes guts, I mean, just pure guts to just do it. We just did it. I love it.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. So, can y'all talk about some of the resources that y'all have drawn on kind of to start and get going in the brewing industry?

M. Owle-Crisp: Well, of course, we're here at BearWater, so they're our contract brewers and these guys have been so helpful.

C. Coggins: Tremendously helpful.

M. Owle-Crisp: For us just to try to figure out what we wanted to do, where we 00:07:00wanted to go, and to help us just facilitate the whole thing. Those guys-

C. Coggins: Absolutely, because they have been a key player in it, and they will continue to be a key player in where we move forward, because, I mean our inevitable goal is that we want a brewery and we will lean on them for advice, and guidance, and they are so gracious to us to give us all the help that they have given us so far. I feel that they will continue to help us. I mean, they are as excited for us as we are excited for ourselves, because they play a major role in it. They're doing the contract brews for us.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. So you talked about one of the hardest parts starting off was kind of the brewing part. Can you talk a little bit about what you had to do 00:08:00to get that piece down?

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, I guess we wanted to find out where our market was, who it was that we were going to try to sell beer to, and we know, Asheville ... There's just so many crazy, every different thing in the world and we knew that probably one of our main customers would be Harrah's Cherokee Casino. A lot of people that come there may not know a lot, or what we've noticed is they don't know a lot about craft beer. Because they're from different parts of different states. So we wanted to create something that's sort of like an introduction to craft beer. So our recipes are very, very simple, they're very ... I guess I shouldn't say simple because making beer is complex. But nothing ... Just very easy to drink.

C. Coggins: And to allude more to what Morgan said is, we want them to have the 00:09:00craft beer experience and to know about the craft beer but we also wanted to incorporate who we are and where we're from and so that falls back to a lot of the name of our company, the location of our company, and the, not to jump forward, but the graphics and the artwork, and that type of things, for our beer, because we want to stay true to who we are, but we also want to ... And I think we have the capacity and the capability of moving our beer forward in that world. In the Native American world, it's truly an untouched source.

C. Coggins: Morgan and I are very excited to be the flagship women, per se, to march that forward. And we definitely are for the Cherokees. And we want it to be a positive thing and just really blast it out there. It brings a whole new aspect to craft beer. I mean, it's not just Joe over here brewing beer in the 00:10:00garage, and hey, we're throwing up a business here. So if you look at them and say, "Well, gosh, what's your story? What do you have? What's your background to it? Or tell us what you're hoping for out of it." You know, what are their stories? And of course everybody's is different and everybody's is unique, but I feel that ours is very unique because we have our whole culture behind us. We just have to tap into it properly, and I don't know how to say it ...

M. Owle-Crisp: Authentically-

C. Coggins: Creatively and authentically, yeah, thank you. Creatively and authentically as we can.

Erin Lawrimore: And so to follow up on that, how would you define the main mission, or theme for 7 Clans?

M. Owle-Crisp: I think there's three separate thing. I think there's good beer, obviously, I don't think anybody sets out to do this and make bad beer. I think 00:11:00secondly is our culture. We want to be able to share that with people because not everybody knows about Cherokee, and beer is universal. So if we can take a product, or medium, that's universal, and let people know that our culture is alive, it's not something from the past, it's a living breathing culture, and we can do that and share that with them ... And then I guess the third thing would probably be to spur that economic growth in our own community that's really lacking. And I feel as enrolled members, we're sort of burdened to do that-

C. Coggins: We've got an obligation to.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, as business owners that can do anything that we want, you know, anything that we set out minds to do, we can do it. So I think that's a good message to tell people and bring it back to our own community.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah, definitely. So we can unpack some of the other stuff you 00:12:00were talking about a minute ago. Can you talk a little bit about the name? How did you decide on the name and what does it mean to you?

C. Coggins: It's kind of crazy because it's one of those things that you know it's just meant to happen. In our conversation, we were actually sitting at that table right there when we actually started our conversation, and my husband and I had thought about a brewery for a long time, or thought about, well, you know, if we ever opened a brewery ... Because being the alcohol commissioner, I saw a lot of things on the other side, and I knew what was coming, or what the opportunities that Cherokee had coming down the line for it, and the opportunities. We always just said ... My husband said, "Well, if we every opened up a brewery, we're going to name it 7 Clans." And so we're sitting here talking, and he says, "If we're opening a brewery, if we were going to open a brewery like this, we'd name it 7 Clans." And Morgan said, "Oh my God! That's exactly what Travis and I said! And that's the exact name that we were going to use!"

M. Owle-Crisp: So we never even had to think about what our name was going to be.

C. Coggins: Yeah, and that's how it birthed. Just that conversation right there, and we knew it, then that was the first and only name that came out, and it was so bizarre, because that's what we had in our heart, and my husband had said repeatedly about it, and Morgan ... I mean, she didn't even bat an eye. We barely got it out of our mouth, and she's like, "Oh my gosh! That's exactly what Travis and I had talked about!" And so that was just how simple that it started, and then we just started to work on it from there, of course, structured our company, and took off from there. I know that that sounds really crazy and really simplified, but honestly, that was how simple to get the idea going. And then of course the hard work just comes into play after that.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah, and so you also talked about the names of the beer and then the artwork. Can you talk a little bit about those and how they kind of tie 00:14:00back into your main mission?

M. Owle-Crisp: We kind of wanted to tell a story, be able to tell a story with our beer, and just give information about our culture, I guess just to kind of spark the interest in consumers or people that don't know anything about Cherokee. So whether our story was created from the beer or the beer creates the story, it just sort of happened. It just feels really natural, like, I tell our Cherokee stories to my daughter all the time. I think we just grew up with that. That's kind of how we understand right from wrong, we understand our native humor, there's just so much in the stories. And it's just easy for us to share. I can't imagine our beer being anything other than what it is.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about, what beers are y'all producing now?

C. Coggins: We have two beers out right now. We have a blonde ale, and then we have an IPA. And they both have great stories on them. And then our next beer, we can't tell right now because it's kind of a surprise, but it'll be out soon, and it will have a story with it also. But we want our stories to stay positive, we want them to stay fun, and ... Because the Cherokees are known for being so stoic and historic, and kind of ... Everybody always hears the negative stories and all the sad stories and all, but there's a lot of fun stories out there, and there's a lot of good stories, and a lot of positive stories and legends, and one thing and another. And we just hope to be able to develop from those, think about those, be respectful with them, and just go forward with them and see 00:16:00where we're at. I think that we're hoping to be with, how many by the end of the year?

M. Owle-Crisp: Probably at least two more by the end of this year. Yeah. Our first beer was, on the can you'll see a picture of Selu. And she was our first woman and our stories tell us that she was created because man had been created but he got really lazy. And so one woman had to be created, so she was the first woman.

C. Coggins: Look here, women still are creative, I'm just going to throw that out there.

M. Owle-Crisp: So it really was just kind of owed to being a woman, being native, being ... The role that native women have in their community, I don't know how it would function without us. We just are so ...

Erin Lawrimore: Now is that the blonde or the IPA?

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, that was the blonde.

C. Coggins: That was the blonde.

Erin Lawrimore: Okay.

M. Owle-Crisp: So it really was kind of about Collette and I being native women, being the first to do something, and kind of that love that we have for our 00:17:00community, and our children, and that's how we tried to express it through that first beer.

C. Coggins: Morgan and my husband, Barry, are the creative ones. I just got to throw that out there. They're the crafty ones and the artistic ones, because Morgan has played a huge, huge role in the factor of designing with our design team, designing the cans and the color schemes. I'm a lot more simpler than she is, so it works out really good because she pays attention to details, and I don't.

M. Owle-Crisp: She handles all the rest of it.

C. Coggins: I get excited and I'm like, "Oh yeah, okay! Just tell me what it's going to be." That kind of thing. I worry about the wrong things, and thank God that she worries about those, because the creativity part of it has just been phenomenal. We've had people, as we've got out and promoted our beer, and went 00:18:00different places and different situations, but we have had people that have said, "You know, a lot of people have to create the really good beer, and then create their identification to it." As to where, we have our design as a home run hit, and the beer's good also.

C. Coggins: So I'm thinking that we've got two home runs right straight out of the bat. It's going to be really hard to keep up with that because we've set the bar really high to begin with. But I feel like that's not an issue, a problem for us to do, but I truly have to give that to Morgan, because it's just been ... I mean, our working, and the team that we have on board has just done a phenomenal job. I can't imagine anywhere else it being that great. People will see us, they will see our logo, and they're going to know exactly. They may not 00:19:00know which beer that it is, but they will know exactly what company it comes from. We will stand out. We're going to be standing out.

M. Owle-Crisp: And it was a female that's on our design team. She lives in Black Mountain, so she doesn't have Native American heritage but she has-

C. Coggins: She has a love for it, though.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, she loves us now.

C. Coggins: She loves us, or she would love to kill us, one of the two. She is awesome, truly.

M. Owle-Crisp: But for her-

Erin Lawrimore: What's her name?

M. Owle-Crisp: Lauronda Morrow. She has a company called Three Sheets Design.

Erin Lawrimore: So what's the story behind the IPA?

M. Owle-Crisp: Well, IPAs are just so, especially this one, is just so earthy. I guess is the only way really to describe it, it's just really earthy, and dank, and just coming from the ground. So that was the imagery that we have, just like hands in the ground with the roots and also with our ...

C. Coggins: Hops and the dirt, and just the background-

M. Owle-Crisp: Well, for Cherokees, our plant ... I mean, we get everything. We were supplied everything-

C. Coggins: All our medicinals-

M. Owle-Crisp: That we needed from the earth. And so that's kind of the idea-

C. Coggins: We give everything to the earth and to the Creator.

Erin Lawrimore: You mentioned that we're here at BearWaters, where they do the contract brewing, can you talk about the decision to start with contract brewing, that as a way of starting the company?

M. Owle-Crisp: Well, it's money. You know, you got to have a lot of money to start a brewery. People don't understand how much it costs. And we wanted to do it quick, and they had everything we needed to do it quick so you know...

C. Coggins: That is so true, and you want to make sure you don't ... We didn't want to spend, because like I said, we were meeting on, working on a different development, a business that we're doing. So do you take all your money from one development and put it into the other development, or do you try to make both of 00:21:00them work? And our creative way of coming up with trying to make them both work is because first and foremost, you got to make sure that your beer is good. And that our recipes were good, that people would buy them. So before you sink a million plus dollars into something, you've got to come up with alternative routes, if you don't want to do that, and so our alternative to that was the contract brewing.

C. Coggins: They offered, we were excited, and we just took a leap from there, but we were able to get our beers out there to see if people like them even, before ... There's a lot of breweries that open up, start up, and before you know it, are gone. Because the beer's no good. The design ... They just didn't have the catchiness of it, it just didn't catch on, so they're gone and they're out of business. So this way, we knew that if we ... Now we have the knowledge to know that we have the labeling, that we have our design, and we have good 00:22:00beer. We need to continue to have good beer, and we're rolling. So that's kind of the concept of it, we just thought, before we invest all of this money into it, we need to know if this is something that we're capable of doing, if it's something that we're even going to like. So that's what we did, and here we are, and we're loving it.

M. Owle-Crisp: We just didn't pick somebody out of the blue. Art, who's one of the owners here, BearWaters, he and Travis and I had a relationship because we were in food and beverage together before, so that was how ... But BearWaters has just been so good about their beer and their quality, and so it was an easy ... Luckily for us, we had this organic relationship anyway, and then getting to know them and their process, and integrity that they have with their products, 00:23:00it was just a win-win for us.

Erin Lawrimore: So you talked a little bit about some of the promotional events that y'all have done. Can you talk about-

C. Coggins: We love them!

Erin Lawrimore: Can you talk about where ...

C. Coggins: Probably one for Morgan, Morgan loves the-

Erin Lawrimore: Where have y'all gone and what kind of feedback have y'all been getting?

C. Coggins: We have had phenomenal feedback, actually I don't think that we have had ... I missed an event, so I don't think that we've had anything negative to tell you the truth. We have been at several different occasions at the casino at Harrah's, we have been to out of town ones at other Harrah's properties, and different locations, and then we have done some, just getting started because of the season, just getting started, Travis and Morgan did a bike ride that they had the ...

M. Owle-Crisp: Fire Mountain Trails.

C. Coggins: Fire Mountain Trails in Cherokee, which is a phenomenal mountain bike trail thing that they have there, and they did the event there. And we'd 00:24:00give away swag, meet the people, they are getting to sample the beer, and at every event they're sampling the beer. And we just ask them, very bluntly, very seriously, "Here's your opportunity. We need your true feedback. Do you like it, you don't like it, what would you change about it?" And the feedback that we have had has just been phenomenal. Truthfully. And they all love the swag. So whatever we're giving away, they're loving.

M. Owle-Crisp: They'll take it, yeah.

C. Coggins: So we really try to choose fun stuff that we would want to be getting if we were out somewhere, so when we're out giving out the swag, we truly try to make it fun. It's not just ... So far, we're not feeling like, "Oh gosh, it's just an event and you've got to go and deal with these people."-

M. Owle-Crisp: We're in the romantic stage of it probably.

C. Coggins: I still get excited, but now, if you can't tell already, I'm the talker.

M. Owle-Crisp: We've had so many people like you, you know, and different schools, and even individuals at different schools say, "Wow, these women are doing something new, like, can I pick your brain?" Wow! It's just us, you know? Yeah, it's just been really exciting and inspiring, makes me want to do better, too. Makes me want to make sure that I'm at my top game.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. So I mentioned earlier that we saw some of y'all's cans in Asheville. Can you talk about how far, where you guys are distributing now?

M. Owle-Crisp: We're self-distributing, and we're doing it slowly so we know how much beer to make, and there's all those things that you have to figure out. Especially our schedule, with BearWater's schedule. But we're in about 50 locations right now, a lot of restaurants.

C. Coggins: I think we're all the way from Tryon to Murphy, North Carolina.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: Wow.

M. Owle-Crisp: And we have two sales guys, and they just go out and talk to people and I don't think anybody's really turned us down that we've ...

C. Coggins: No, if they do, we're going to be on their doorstep every day.

Erin Lawrimore: Are y'all doing kegs and cans?

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, kegs and cans, yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: Okay. Do you do your own ... Is the canning here?

M. Owle-Crisp: We bought the cask, can machine. So it's here, and BearWaters uses it, too. It was something they needed, and that goes back to this relationship with the contract brewing, which is great because they're helping us, we also help them by getting the can machine. Now they're able to can their beers, and take it ... they're distributing with Bud of Asheville, so it's just a mutual relationship.

C. Coggins: It gave us the opportunity to go from just being able to go into restaurants or bars, or whatever with kegs, to them being able to can our beer 00:27:00for us and then us go out and sell the beer in the cans.

Erin Lawrimore: And like you said, the art on your cans tell a story so being able to see that's an extra-

C. Coggins: Yeah. That's what we wanted to have more than anything was to get the cans out there.

M. Owle-Crisp: And we've had a lot of women, a good response from women. I don't think we ... I mean, I think we kind of did it intentionally with our first beer, but I'll come here to BearWaters, and there'll be like a group of teachers, from after school, and they're all drinking our beer. And I'm like, all these women-

C. Coggins: Like our beer!

M. Owle-Crisp: And they don't know us, it's like, that's so awesome that other women are drinking our beer. It's the slim can, so I think it's just more feminine.

C. Coggins: We put a lot of thought into it and we wanted to make the slim cans, we came out with the slim cans, and that's what we're going to stick with because of it being a woman. But also to be, if men were taking it, and you're 00:28:00going backpacking, hiking, coolers, whatever, the slim cans fit in actually better. But it's been kind of funny to see the response for the slim cans because we're the only slim can beer out there right now. So that's been kind of fun to watch.

C. Coggins: But like Morgan said, it's truly amazing to see the women ... Men are beer drinkers and that's just a given, I mean it's exciting that they like our beer, but it's really exciting when the women get excited about it, and we just did an event over the weekend. People get so excited to meet us. It feels good. It makes you feel good because they're excited that we have branched out and done something that is not on the norm for women. And we have had just a truly positive experience with the support that we have had from other women, 00:29:00and from some men. I mean truly, from some men that I didn't think it would come from, we have had tremendous responses to the positive side of it, so that's been good.

Erin Lawrimore: That kind of ties into one of the questions that I've been asking the women I'm talking to in this project. Are there, like you said, craft brewing is traditionally kind of thought of as a man's world. Have you had challenges that you've faced being a woman in the industry? Particularly are relatively new to the industry?

M. Owle-Crisp: I don't think so because we pretty much tell them what we're going to do and what we think, you know? They just have to take us.

C. Coggins: If you know what the law is, and you know what you can do, and you follow by the law, then we just pretty much set our mind to it and go at it.

M. Owle-Crisp: But we've also been in construction, and that's ... Women are typically not in construction, either.

C. Coggins: We like those careers that you're typically not seeing the average 00:30:00woman in.

Erin Lawrimore: And like you said, one of the cool things though is that you kind of stand out because of it, and so other women come and find you.

C. Coggins: Yes. We hope to inspire some young women. I have a daughter that's 23, and I hope that she sees the strength and endurance, and just that when you set your mind to it, you can do anything with the hard work and the perseverance.

M. Owle-Crisp: And she's here to support her today. My 11 year old's in there playing video games, but she's here, and she's at all our meetings.

C. Coggins: She's at all of our meetings.

M. Owle-Crisp: So I hope that I can teach her if that's what she decides to do, is be in business, that ... She learns something, or just gets to see what mom does.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. So this kind of ties into that. If you had a woman who came in right now and had your beer and was like, "This is awesome. How do I get into this industry?" What advice would you give to a woman who's looking to enter the craft brewing industry?

C. Coggins: I would say, "Look. I'll meet you tomorrow, and I'll tell you all about it." And Morgan does the same thing because the more that get into it, the better it is for us. And it just opens more doors. The more that ... Gosh, to think that you've helped your neighbor out or helped somebody out to get started in business, whether it be the same business that we're in or a different business, I mean, that's what we're here for. You have to give back. I feel like that Morgan and I, because this is where we truly have the same core, is you have to give back. It's just part of life. And that's what we do. I have no problems with ever helping anybody. We have no secrets. I would tell them exactly how to do it tomorrow.

M. Owle-Crisp: We probably tell people too much.

C. Coggins: We probably do. I probably tell people too much.

M. Owle-Crisp: The men tell us, they're like, "You probably shouldn't say that."

C. Coggins: Yeah, but let me help you out, we've had them a long time, and they know that doesn't work.

Erin Lawrimore: That's awesome. So what's your favorite part about working in this industry? What so far has been your favorite thing about working the craft beer industry?

C. Coggins: Drinking it! Oh wait, can we edit that part out?

Erin Lawrimore: That's a good, honest answer!

C. Coggins: It's the sampling, I really enjoy the sampling!

Erin Lawrimore: It's a good, honest answer!

M. Owle-Crisp: I've loved the creative side. It's also helped me personally get closer to my culture, because I've tried to research and it's not just an aesthetic, it's the content behind it. So it's not just like a character of something. There's real, deep meaning behind that, and it's helped me see that and understand it better and my relationship to my own culture. So it's just been a really growing for me.

Erin Lawrimore: And you know y'all talked about a sense of cooperation with the 00:33:00folks here.

M. Owle-Crisp: Oh we've had so much support, I mean it's crazy. I can't ... I wish I had more support in other businesses that I've tried to do, but I just feel like so many people have just been so excited about it.

Erin Lawrimore: Well that's what I was going to ask. How would you compare this to some of the other business fields? You both have been in other business fields.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, it's felt very lonely. I felt very lonely in most other ...

C. Coggins: This, as far as the people being kind about it, it's been great. As far as getting it structured and getting into our own people, it's been a little bit different. It's been a little bit harder, but we understand that and we know the aesthetics of it, and why people feel the way that they do. I mean, we get that. So it's kind of been hard. We have to be very careful and we have to be 00:34:00very respectful with all that we do, and so that's probably been ... Truly, that has been the only rough part, the only hard part. And just learning a few lessons there. Truly, it's been very gratifying.

M. Owle-Crisp: So we have a different ... Historically, for our people, we have a different viewpoint on alcohol. So it has been ... It's been interesting to see how some people have changed, some people have still ... Have negative reactions towards that, and if people don't want to drink, great. Great, you know. So yeah, we've learned a lot.

Erin Lawrimore: So if you put on your forward thinking glasses, where would you want to see 7 Clans in five years?

C. Coggins: Gosh, we're going to be ... I'm not even going to say we're going to be national because we're also going to be outside the realms of the United States. That's a promise. We're going global.

M. Owle-Crisp: We've already had several countries-

C. Coggins: I know that that's like, wow, she's putting a lot out there, but I've got to tell you, I know we're going global.

Erin Lawrimore: Were y'all hoping to build a physical spot of your own, too?

C. Coggins: Yes.

M. Owle-Crisp: That's what I was going to comment on, is that I think that just having our flagship brewery in Cherokee, it will be the first ever on a reservation. I think breweries have kind of taken on that communal relationship, community-minded, and I just see all the people gathering there, and that's what our culture is about, too, is about community and gathering, so we want to be at the center of that. It's just been interesting to see that happen other places. 00:36:00And where we're located is so tourist-driven, there's 13 million people that come right through there, of all different groups, ethnicities, and hopefully-

C. Coggins: [crosstalk 00:36:19]

M. Owle-Crisp: Hopefully it becomes like an oasis for them. They've been on the park for 30 minutes or however long-

C. Coggins: At least an hour-

M. Owle-Crisp: An hour, that trip is from Gatlinburg over to our side, and then they see just this place of-

C. Coggins: We will be family friendly-

M. Owle-Crisp: Outdoor. Yeah.

C. Coggins: Which makes the difference. It's not what ... Breweries today are wonderful because there's so many activities and different things that different ones put on in advance, and this, that, and other, and so it's kind of hard changing some of the people's mindset. That's what I guess has been our issue, not our issue, but what we have watched happen, but a brewery is not a bar. And 00:37:00a lot of people still have the mindset that if you're selling alcohol there, then you're down at the bar. But it's not. It'll be a family-oriented, and if you want to have a drink, you're more than welcome to have a drink, and if you don't drink, it's okay, because we will have events for you there to do, and refreshments for you there also. So it's not like you've just got to come and drink only there. There'll be other events that will take place there and it'll be a venue.

M. Owle-Crisp: It's classless, it's sexless, all politics aside, everybody comes. And that's what I love about the spirit of a brewery.

Erin Lawrimore: And can you talk a little bit about, just personally to you, the importance of having, I guess, tie in kind of that beer and brewing culture to your Cherokee culture, and being able to tell your story in a place like that. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of that to you and the business?

M. Owle-Crisp: It's just natural for us. I think, I always share my culture with anybody that I meet. I'm always proud to tell them I'm Cherokee, and where I'm from. I'm always telling stories to my daughter about ... Just simple things in life about why certain animals are a certain way. We have a story for that. It just makes us who we are. I can't imagine being any other way.

Erin Lawrimore: So we have some fun questions that we like to use to wrap up the interview. So you guys are making two beers right now. Can you pick a favorite? Do you have your own personal favorite between the two?

C. Coggins: I do. I don't know if she does, but I do. And the blonde ale is my favorite.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. Why is that?

C. Coggins: It's more of a ... It's a smoother beer for me, I'm not a real hoppy 00:39:00person, and I like a... I almost like a light beer, type beer. I've always been a domestic beer drinker before, just not that long ago, and of course I still like some of them, but I truly see it when we had our tastings, because we went to multiple tastings to get to where we didn't just make a beer and say, "Oh okay that's it." We went to multiple tastings and different recipes in order to get where we're at with our beers. And when we finally hit that recipe that I really like with the blonde, I was like, "Okay, that's it! I really like that beer!" And so I was like, "We've got to stick with this beer," and they're like, "Okay. So that one's Collette's," because I can't tell what I used to drink, but ...

Erin Lawrimore: I was going to actually ask, I mean, I think one of the interesting things in North Carolina especially, is the craft beer world here is 00:40:00still so new. Do you remember what your intro to craft beer was going from a domestic drinker to...?

C. Coggins: Probably ...

Erin Lawrimore: What was your gateway?

C. Coggins: What was my gateway? Well, the gateway that kind of bridged it a little bit was the Belgian Wheat, it's the ... I can't even think of the name of it now because I quit drinking it, Shock Top. And then there was, there's a little place in Bryson City that's a Mountain Layers, has a brewery there that we actually like to go to and visit with. And the beer that they have there is Newfound Gap, and it's a golden ale. And I like it pretty good. So that kind of-

M. Owle-Crisp: That was my first, golden ale. From Wicked Weed, and it was the first time that I saw ... Everybody was using oranges and coriander, and that was a big thing. And then Wicked Weed did their Cool Cucumber. It has cucumber, 00:41:00and basil, and juniper. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, I think I may really like craft beer now." Like, look at all this stuff that you can do. And it reminded me of Cherokee. It reminded me of something that I would make ... Some kind of medicine or tonic that we would make, and I was like, "Oh my gosh." That was it for me, it was like, this feels like home to me. And I loved that one.

Erin Lawrimore: So can you pick a favorite between your two?

M. Owle-Crisp: Probably the blonde. I think Collette and I both have sensitive palates. So the IPA is a dry hop, so, I think without the dry hop, I really, really like it. It's smoother, but when we dry hop it, it's just a little bit too ...

Erin Lawrimore: I found that people either love a hoppy and as hoppy as they can get, or they're kind of like, "I don't know about hoppy."

M. Owle-Crisp: It's a big thing here, is like, everybody told us, "We want an easy drinker, and we need the bite." So that's why we have the blonde and the IPA.

C. Coggins: And I have to put this out, look, it landed, and I don't know that you can see it, but to our people also, dragonflies are good luck.

Erin Lawrimore: Oh! And so yeah, you've got a dragonfly just flying around us.

C. Coggins: We have a dragonfly that has been flying this whole interview, driving us nuts, but I've got to tell you it's just came and landed on our table. So I mean, that's just another sign for me, that we are on the right path and that's good luck.

M. Owle-Crisp: I have chill bumps all over.

C. Coggins: Yeah, I know.

Erin Lawrimore: That's awesome.

C. Coggins: He's just hanging out! Yeah. So but anyway, I'm sorry.

Erin Lawrimore: Oh no! No, that's awesome.

M. Owle-Crisp: I think because we do look for signs, I think in things that happen, and we see them as like, that was meant ... Like us talking that day, we both knew that 7 Clans would be the name. Seven is such a powerful number for our people.

C. Coggins: And just our logo itself that we came up with, it's the seven sevens makes our elk head. And we have a elk that had been reintroduced into the national park there where we're at in Cherokee, and so, and that program within 00:43:00itself is thriving tremendously. So I mean, it just all has meaning, it didn't just pop up. It all has meaning. And I think it was meant to be how it is.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah. So here's another fun question for you. You've mentioned the Mountain Layers in Bryson City. So other than your own beers, do you have a favorite North Carolina craft beer? Can you pick a favorite?

M. Owle-Crisp: It's probably what I talked about, the Cool Cucumber from Wicked Weed. The wild ales when they started that, I just fell in love with them.

C. Coggins: Mountain Layers has a Silly Puppy, is the name of it. I know right? Silly Puppy is the name of it, and then the very favorite, the one that got me going to Mountain Layers was called Barcode, and then you know, they're a small brewery so they change up a lot, because they're not canning and putting out there. And it was one of their seasonal things and so every time I go in, I always just say, "I'll have a Barcode," and they're like, "You know we don't 00:44:00have that right now."

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

C. Coggins: So I went in over the weekend, and the lady says, "Look, we're coming back out with Barcode! It's going to be two weeks!" And I'm like. But Silly Puppy probably right now.

Erin Lawrimore: That's awesome.

C. Coggins: Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: So I'm going to assume that starting up a brewery from scratch takes a lot of time.

C. Coggins: Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: But what do y'all do for fun, when you're not here? What are some of your favorite things to do outside of running the businesses?

M. Owle-Crisp: My daughter is probably the life of me. She does soccer and Jiu-Jitsu and golf, so we're busy chasing her all the time. And before we started the brewery, I just retired from playing roller derby. I played for five years.

Erin Lawrimore: What was your name?

M. Owle-Crisp: So Mo Licious.

Erin Lawrimore: So that's an important question to ask a roller derby person.

M. Owle-Crisp: So that was ... That's another experience that just, being with other women, and just like-

C. Coggins: You know she's a badass.

M. Owle-Crisp: It was so much fun. And I had just had gone through my second knee surgery, and so I had rehabbed back, so I could get back out on the track. I did my year on the track, and then two of my friends broke their legs, so I was like, "What am I doing? I can't do this anymore." So I had a little extra time, so I thought I'd start making beer.

C. Coggins: On top of everything else. And like I said, I have two children, and my children are grown children, but I seem to treat them as though they're still small children. My son that's 29, I say 28, but he just turned 29 ... He has his own businesses in Cherokee, so I kind of just follow him around and see what he's got going on. And then for the last few years we have followed my daughter, she played college softball. So we followed her across the country playing softball.

Erin Lawrimore: Who'd she play for?

C. Coggins: She started out at UT [University of Tennessee, Knoxville] playing, and then she moved back home to Western. So she got more playing time and closer to home, and it just was a better fit for her. So we have followed her, then she graduated with her master's. She quit playing ball because she played all she played in college, she went and got her master's, and then she decided that that wasn't good enough, that she wanted to join the bike ride for the Ride of Removal from the Trail of Tears from the Cherokees, that they do every year. So she just got back from peddling on a bicycle 1000 miles from New Ochoha, Georgia, to Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Took them 21 days. So we followed her with that. We're still following her. Wherever she wants to go, we're going to follow her.

C. Coggins: And I thought it was really sweet, because today she says to me, because they had lady that come, and I'm going to tell my story. They had a lady came, and made them corn bead necklaces for all of the bike riders that were 00:47:00going to Oklahoma, and then she told them the story behind the corn bead necklace for the Trail of Tears. And she wore her necklace every day the entire time, while she was doing her ride. And a lot of the necklaces don't survive, they get broken during wrecks, just whatever. And she's said, "Well, mom, today I wish you good luck, and I want you to wear my necklace." And so this is actually my daughter's corn bead necklace that she wore when she rode her bike to Oklahoma.

C. Coggins: Needless to say, like Morgan, we're extremely proud of our children. And I think our fun times is our families. It doesn't get any better than family time. No matter what you're doing. And like I said, all of our meetings, whether we've been in attorney's offices, whether we've been in other situations, Chloe, which is her daughter, is always there. And you never hear a peep out of her, I mean she's just like a small business woman that just sits there. And so we incorporate our families in our businesses and our business life, and I think 00:48:00that you've got to have your core, and your core has got to be your family. And so we incorporate them and that's our fun time. I mean doing business, trying new things, and family.

M. Owle-Crisp: And bringing our husbands along.

C. Coggins: Our husbands are always along. I promise, they're lurking around the corner right now.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yep.

Erin Lawrimore: I mean, I think that's a good way to kind of wrap up the interview, too because it seems like family just really ties into the whole, everything from how y'all started, why you wanted to start, to what you want to be. It seems like that kind of is the string that ties it all together.

C. Coggins: Yep. It is.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yep.

Erin Lawrimore: Well is there anything we didn't get to talk about today that you wanted to make sure we get when we're trying to tell your whole story?

C. Coggins: Just in case I didn't tell you, my partner's awesome.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah, this lady is, I mean ... I've learned so much from her.

C. Coggins: We have a good time.

M. Owle-Crisp: Yeah.

Erin Lawrimore: Yeah, it seems like you do. It really seems like you all have a good time. Well thank you so much, thank you for sitting down with us, we really 00:49:00appreciate it.

M. Owle-Crisp: Thank you.

C. Coggins: Thank you for coming.