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Partial Transcript: I think you already touched on why you selected Asheville as the location, but you were talking more about something that was hyperlocal, something that was more about this area as opposed to Asheville as a whole, if that's accurate?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss why they chose to establish their brewery in a specific area of Asheville.
Keywords: hyperlocal
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Partial Transcript: You answer sort of ties into my next question. Which is, you have someone who has never been here before in this new area comes in, how would you, if they asked what you were all about, how would you describe Archetype to them?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss what Archetype is, their brewing interests, and company philosophy.
Keywords: Riverbend Malt House; collaboration
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Partial Transcript: You mentioned the community outreach work that you do. Are there some examples of fundraising or community engagement work that you all have done in the community?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss Archetype's community involvement.
Keywords: Green Opportunities; community; community outreach; community service
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Partial Transcript: Archetype was awarded best in show at the 2018 North Carolina Brewer's Cup. How does that make you feel? Can you elaborate on that?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss the awards that Archetype has won.
Keywords: North Carolina Brewers Cup; North Carolina Craft Brewers Guild
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Partial Transcript: Archetype is young, but you've both been in the business for a while. How would you say the brewing scene has changed since you've each first landed in the business?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss the changes they have seen in the craft brewing scene and working in the industry today.
Keywords: education
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Partial Transcript: If you had a crystal ball, where would you sort of see the brewing industry heading in three to five years, or where are you seeing it heading maybe?
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss what they think the future of the craft brewing industry will be in the next three to five years.
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Partial Transcript: If Archetype had a flagship or signature beer, maybe not necessarily your personal favorite, but if there's one that maybe people think Archetype, that's the beer they think of.
Segment Synopsis: Mr. Casanova and Anan discuss what they think would be Archetype's signature beer and their personal favorites.
Richard Cox: Okay. So if we can start, could you please say and spell your names?
Brad Casanova: Brad Casanova, B-R-A-D C-A-S-A-N-O-V-A.
Steven Anan: Steven Anan, S-T-E-V-E-N A-N-A-N.
Richard Cox: Great. And today it's Wednesday, February 27th, 2019, and we are in Archetype
Brewing Company in Asheville, North Carolina. I'm Richard Cox talking today
with Brad Casanova and Steven Anan. Have I pronounced it correctly?
Steven Anan: Close enough.
Richard Cox: Close enough. Anan, I heard it. Co-founders as part of the Well
Crafted NCProject. So if you could both decide who wants to go first, but tell us a little bit
about yourselves.
Brad Casanova: Go for it.
Steven Anan: Oh, man. Well, I've been in Asheville for about five years. I grew
up in NortheastFlorida, lived in Colorado for a stint where I started in the industry. I have one
00:01:00three year old child and a lovely wife, and it's hard to have hobbies when you're
a business owner, but I used to go fishing a lot and I have kind of an audiophile.
Richard Cox: Okay.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Awesome.
Steven Anan: Brad, what do you got?
Brad Casanova: New Jersey, born and raised. I've been in the south for about 19
years now.Richard Cox: Okay.
Brad Casanova: I came straight out of school up to Asheville. I was a chemistry
major, so I gotinto forensics and stayed in that field for about 10 years until switching over to
brewing.
Richard Cox: What switched you over to brewing?
Brad Casanova: A want to get out of politics or politically involved government work.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Brad Casanova: It got a little tired and old. It was fun in my 20s, but it was
time to move on tosomething different and more fun that I could actually, you know-
Richard Cox: Enjoy.
Brad Casanova: Enjoy, yeah.
Richard Cox: Yeah. So that's sort of how you got interested in the brewing industry.
00:02:00Brad Casanova: Yes.
Richard Cox: Yeah. And you were brewing in Colorado?
Steven Anan: Yeah. So I started at Ska Brewing in Durango. My wife and I lived
in Fort Collins,in Denver and then we moved to Durango. There was like definitely a defining
moment for me where I was like, "Yeah, this is what I want to do for the rest of
my life, maybe." So I was working, I was on a job site, I was laying a sprinkler
system in this field right next to Ska and they were like in the middle of a brew
day and their stack was just like pluming out delicious smells. We worked on
that site for probably a week and we went to Ska during lunch and had a beer
every day and I was like, "I think I want to do this." I was like, "I want to work
somewhere where it smells like this all the time."
Richard Cox: That bread smell, right?
Steven Anan: So probably a month later, I got a job there working behind the
bar, and thenanother month later I moved to their cellar and yeah, that's kind of it for me.
00:03:00Now we're here.
Richard Cox: And did you guys meet after one of you decided?
Steven Anan: Yeah. So I moved to Asheville in 2014 and started working for
another breweryin town, Hi-Wire, and was with them for two and a half years. Brad came on and
was their quality manager, worked in their lab, set up their lab for their new
building, so that's how we met. I was their head seller man, he was there
manning their lab. There was a lot of crossover with work, so him and I worked
closely together and, I mean, we can dive into this now or we can-
Richard Cox: We can come back. That's fine, that's fine.
Steven Anan: Yeah. So that's pretty much how we met.
Richard Cox: All right. So you already knew each other at Hi-Wire. So what led
you to decideyou wanted to go and open Archetype in 2017?
00:04:00Brad Casanova: [inaudible 00:04:03].
Steven Anan: That's a you question.
Brad Casanova: Fernandina.
Steven Anan: Oh, sure. Well, I had plans to open a brewery down south in front
of FernandinaBeach, Florida, which is north of Jacksonville. That's where my family is around,
so I actually approached Brad with a business plan just kind of for him to review
and give input on. And, man, maybe what? Like two months later you were like,
"Actually, I have something in the works," and approached me with this
opportunity. You can take it from there.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. We had actually had a conversation about Asheville in
particular and thenthe answer was, "No, we don't need any more breweries," because we were
looking at it from a complete numbers' perspective. My neighbor's boyfriend
actually happened to be the land owner and developer of this corner. He kept
00:05:00talking about this project and his eyes kind of lit up when he talked about it, and
this is around the time I was talking to Steven about his plans, and he said, "You
got to come see it." So I came and saw it. He told me about the vision of the
corner and all the complimenting businesses, and I really started looking at the
area and we talked about it. Asheville maybe didn't need another brewery, but
this area did.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Brad Casanova: So it's sort of a new perspective on it, and we came and saw it
together and justkind of dove in head first.
Steven Anan: Looked past the grime.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Richard Cox: It sounds like what you were doing was talking about the idea of the
neighborhood brewery, the neighborhood tap room as opposed to some of the
larger more older ideas of how breweries are done.
Steven Anan: Right.
Brad Casanova: Community-focused.
Richard Cox: Yeah, exactly. Hyperlocal.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Yeah. I guess let's talk about Archetype itself for a little while.
What are each ofyour roles as both co-founders for the brewery? What do you do?
00:06:00Brad Casanova: We have a very fine thick like drawn between us.
Steven Anan: Yeah, we do.
Brad Casanova: In terms of our division of duties. I do mainly the business side
of things. I'm inthe office. So legal, financial and sort of business forecasting and those sort of
things. It tends to take me out of the brewery a lot, sort of create contacts
outside and drum up some projects, maybe not necessarily beer related but
more Asheville and other business related projects.
Richard Cox: It's like community engagement type work?
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah. For me, head brewer, managing production flow, and I guess
over the lastyear more people management, so just engaging with staff and a little bit of HR
and a little bit of everything else.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Good aside. Can you tell me a little bit about your
brewhouse, size?Steven Anan: Yeah. We have a 10 barrel three-vessel system. It's was from Dolce,
00:07:00a local orsemi-local company based in Charlotte. We have 10s and 20s in our cellar and
we have 16 wine barrels and four puncheons, so we do have a pretty decent
wood stock for our size.
Richard Cox: Awesome.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: I heard a ding. Was that for you?
Steven Anan: I think that was my phone.
Richard Cox: Oh, okay.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: So we'll continue and ignore the ding.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: So, I think you already touched on why you select Asheville as the
location andyou were talking more about something that's hyperlocal, something that's
more about this area as opposed to Asheville as a whole if that's accurate.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. I think our beer selection and style was more relevant to
what Ashevilleneeded.
Richard Cox: How so?
Brad Casanova: In terms of bringing in a smaller Belgian styles in a smaller
brewery. We've gotNew Belgium of course and other breweries, do the one-offs on the Belgian
side, but there's not really anyone that really focused on that and that's what
00:08:00we did to start. So that was more relevant to the community, but locally it was
just relevant to the area in terms of, you know, it's a neighborhood that didn't
really have anything up until two years ago for community members. It had
services like car auto body and things like that, but it didn't have places for
people to go and meet and hang out. This neighborhood is just geographically
isolated by the river and the interstate.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Brad Casanova: And that was it.
Richard Cox: So in some ways, it's almost like it's not Asheville in its own way.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Richard Cox: And it's interesting because you're also talking about brewery as a community
gathering space, a third space. Why did you name it Archetype?
Steven Anan: Oh, man, I hate this question.
Richard Cox: Excellent.
Steven Anan: Perfect. I guess a variety of reasons. Normally, the joke I throw
out is that itwasn't taken, it was available, so we went for it.
00:09:00Richard Cox: Starts with an A. It's up top.
Steven Anan: Right, there you go, it's up top. No, I mean, beer in and of
itself, like a fermentedbeverage is historically an archetype. That's something that's been revered by
cultures pretty much across the board historically, like every culture has this
fermented beverage that they look at as like a divine gift.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: So you could argue that any sort of like fermented beverage has
that, isessentially an archetype. Branding-wise, it left it wide open. We can kind of go in
any direction, that's why a lot of our names are tropes just to make them a little
bit more like culturally relevant. And then, just on top of that I was a literary
nerd in school, so it kind of made me happy.
Richard Cox: That's a good thing.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Did you have any input on the name or he covered it nicely?
Brad Casanova: Yeah, that was covered nicely. I'll just say a lot of what we do
00:10:00tends to havemultiple layers, whether it be the design or our events. There always seems to
be some sort of additional aspect to it, and I think that sort of branding
potential allowed for us to really be creative because we're both sort of braining
and thinking about how we can do things differently and just be more creative
and kind of make it more experiential than simply "it's a liquid in a glass."
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: It's meant to spur conversation and to get people's minds
thinking and also beinclusive, be approachable for everyone. So it added all those things.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Just in the name, that's great, that's awesome. Your answer sort of
ties into mynext question which is you have someone who's never been here before in this
new area comes in, how would you actually, if they ask like what are you all
00:11:00about, how would you describe Archetype to them?
Steven Anan: Obviously, I would probably start with the beer. I think we do a
lot of creativethings while remaining approachable stylistically.
Richard Cox: For example?
Steven Anan: Well, a lot of our beers are not adjunct heavy, so kind of a quick
aside, we try toavoid chasing trends and that's the multifaceted approach and there are many
reasons for it. Yeah, I think we make really clean approachable balanced beers.
We have a lot of complex beers that are still approachable that maybe drink a
little bit more like wine as opposed to these kind of wild intense sour beers.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: And then, going back to the idea of being community-focused and
kind ofappealing to everybody and being inclusive, I think that's a large part of our
philosophy. What else you got?
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Good?
00:12:00Brad Casanova: Yeah. Pretty well covered it. I Like that.
Richard Cox: So that's how you would describe it. It sounds like you're also
dipping into whatyour mission or theme is in the same way when you're describing it. Is that fair?
Steven Anan: Yeah, I think so. That's really our story.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: So describing our business is ... The goal is to get someone to
align with ourvalues and actually align with the brand as opposed to just one beer in
particular.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: So yeah, that kind of ties it all together.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. I think that for the consumer, it becomes pretty obvious
after a shortperiod of time what a mission is of a brewery.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: A lot of the production breweries that sort of take off is ... I
feel like their focusis finding a good recipe, something that connects with people and just making
as much as possible of it.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: And that's where they sort of stop that creative process, or at
00:13:00least dial it backbecause, "Well, you have a good product. Let's get it to market." Ours is more of
a continuous loop. Our mission statement is "Explore, create and refine so that
others may share and enjoy of discovering better beer." It leaves it wide open,
and we're constantly coming up with new things versus just finding what hits,
and pushing it. We do a lot of beers that people will say, "I'm not a beer drinker,
but I love this," or, "My favorite beer is this," but it's always a different beer.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: And it kind of separates us from a production brewery, from that
standpoint ofnot focusing on these core flagship beers. It's always making new stuff and then
people go from one favorite to another. It's sort of a different experience. That's
sort of our story and mission.
Richard Cox: And your mission also, yeah, seems to move even beyond the beer
00:14:00from whatyou've been saying before whereas you're defining your mission through
basically everything that's coming out of the brewery as a business. Is that fair?
Brad Casanova: Yeah. We focus a lot on everything that we do has to sort of fit
this mission, soyou never do anything halfway. If it's not there, don't do it. We'll save it and
we'll figure some way to make it something more engaging.
Richard Cox: Yeah, great. So talk about brewing for a minute. How would you say Archetype
reflects your brewing approach, interest or philosophy? And we already
mentioned Belgian style.
Steven Anan: Yeah. Well, again kind of going back to our mission statements, we
have kind oflike a three word motto which is complex, mindful, living beer. All three of those
words are pretty deliberate. Starting with the first one, complex, complexity
requires patience, exploration and innovation so we're always trying to make
00:15:00our beer better, we're always trying to figure out how we can improve, how we
can kind of push the boundaries of what we're doing in the industry without
chasing trends and without getting too far out in left field.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: But doing our due diligence with all our processes and making sure
we're doingit properly. What were you going to say?
Brad Casanova: Wind malt, that's sort of a-
Steven Anan: Yeah, so to give a quick example of that, we worked with Riverbend
to createkind of an old world method of malting, and we're actually going to brew this
beer this week probably tomorrow. They created what's called wind malt which
is essentially, goes back to like a farmhouse technique for malting barley or any
cereal grain. So essentially what farmers would do is they would harvest their
cereal grain and then they would store it in a loft in their barn essentially, so
they would have open tops so you would just get a cross breeze that would
00:16:00slowly dry and malt the grains. What you're left with is a semi-modified malt
that has just a really like grassy rustic flavor to it.
Steven Anan: So looking at projects like that, and trying to emulate historical
beers and kindof bring them back to life, and not necessarily doing it just to do historical beer
but working on a project that highlights businesses that we align with on like a
philosophical level, which Riverbend is incredible. They went way out of their
way to make us 800 pounds which is a tiny amount of the small malt because it
was essentially a passion project for them, because it is pushing the envelope
and we're not really seeing anyone doing stuff like this. I feel like this takes a
little bit more effort than just kind of throwing adjuncts at a beer.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: Yeah. Little things like that, small project focus and doing it
00:17:00with intention andactual purpose instead of just seeing what sticks.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: The second one, so again, complex, mindful, living beer. Talking about
mindfulness requires diligence, process refinement, and a sincere focus on
quality, so both Brad and I have a pretty strong focus on quality. That's what he
did at Hi-Wire. Cellar work is all quality focused, so it has to be super clean,
everything has to be tight. So making sure that our SOPs are tight and all of our
employees are trained upright and actually following SOPs and not stopping
there but looking at process points and asking ourselves how we can improve
those to make a better beer at the end of the day.
Steven Anan: And then, living beer means our beer's evolving, it's intricate and
then it'sunfiltered and unpasteurized and that always kind of be. So like our Brett beers
we had a lot of fun with because we can package them off and pour them on
00:18:00draft and they're great, but we can also store them in a cold storage for six
months to a year and it continues to develop as opposed to traditional ales
which have a shelf like of 60 to 90 maybe 120 days.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: We're not trying to avoid that, but these are beers that age and
develop in apositive way as opposed to degradation.
Richard Cox: Yeah, and it says something about the product.
Steven Anan: Right.
Richard Cox: So what's your favorite part of brewing then?
Steven Anan: Oh, man.
Richard Cox: There we go.
Steven Anan: I like the whole thing, I don't know. It's a cool balance of
mechanical inclination,there's an artistic side to it.
Richard Cox: Absolutely.
Steven Anan: There's a science-based side to it, and there's always more.
There's so muchresearch going on in this industry so it's like almost every week there's
something like crazy that comes out. We're not doing anything because we
don't have a lab and that's not our goal, but there's a lot of good research going
00:19:00on out there. People like Riverbend who are up for experimenting and doing
these cool projects as opposed to the pump and dump style breweries that
really go for quantity over these little cool projects.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: That's probably my favorite thing. It's really just a blend of
everything. Whatabout you? What do you like about this?
Brad Casanova: Everything. I like that it is constantly evolving as an industry
because the feelthat you get is we're all in this together. Working with Riverbend, it wasn't they
were the experts and they were telling us how to do it, it was let's figure this
out, let's try it and have fun. That to me is what gives me that passion of new
and exciting things, of trying different beers, of collaborating. It's just exciting
and there's a lot of energy in it, and it's a very unique industry from that
perspective.
Richard Cox: Yeah, yeah. Great. Awesome. So, when you were opening Archetype and
00:20:00starting it, and you're now growing it, what resources do you each draw on in
your specific areas to help you with that sort of thing?
Steven Anan: Oh, man.
Richard Cox: Or are you winging it from the ground up?
Steven Anan: As far as the startup?
Richard Cox: Well, yeah. When you're starting up Archetype, you're like, "Okay.
What theheck are we doing?" Who or what?
Steven Anan: I feel like we were lucky enough to experience and to see things
... this is moreof a blanket statement, but seeing things done the wrong way.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Steven Anan: That's not to say that previous breweries I worked for didn't do
anything right.They do a lot of things right, but seeing the common pitfalls of just opening a
space, not necessarily process or product or quality but more about setting up a
functional space to allow you to do what you need to do and do it efficiently. So,
when I came on with Hi-Wire, I started at their South Slope location, which is
00:21:00this really small brewery, and I was part of the build out for Big Top which is
their Biltmore facility. And seeing that growth and what it required and the
attention to detail and seeing things on the front end and the back end and
being like, "Okay, we could've done this just to avoid this."
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: That really helps. Brad also has a wicked keen eye for stuff like
that. Eventhough he wasn't ever in a cellar physically slinging hoses around, we would
bounce stuff back and forth, ideas, and he would be like, "No, let's do it this way
so it's cleaner, so it's more functional." He has a great eye for that and we're
pretty open to each other's ideas and input. I think that helped build this place
out. We haven't had any major issues or mechanical failures or anything,
knowing how to maintain certain pieces of equipment and what that takes to
00:22:00avoid something catastrophic helps kind of a lot.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: I think that's the nicest way anyone's ever called me anal
retentive. Selfadmittedly.
Steven Anan: I would expect you to say the same about me.
Brad Casanova: I'm in a good spot now because I'm getting older so I'm always
looking for waysto improve, but I'm also getting a little tired, so I kind of prioritize what's really
important but always being able to see those things I think is really important in
this industry, is always keeping an eye on what's a risk or what could break,
what could put us out for a week, having backups and working on these things
and making sure that's part of our company culture too. Our philosophy has to
incorporate that through all levels. If you're behind the bar pouring beer, you've
got to have those things in your head too, and that's just from our perspective
00:23:00because that's who we want to be and that's kind of what we're creating here.
Richard Cox: yeah.
Brad Casanova: But also in terms of the startup, being in a town like this, it
really helped,especially for two guys who'd never been in business before to have the
resources, professional resources, a contractor and an architect that had
worked together on several previous breweries.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Brad Casanova: That was an amazing leg up for us in terms of being able to have
them in hereand say, "Actually, you might consider doing it this way because I've seen this
before and it didn't work out."
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: That's something that someone in a town that only has one other
brewery, theycan't rely on those professionals to have that sort of experience. We're just
really blessed with that.
Richard Cox: Yeah. And actually, what you just said is things others have told
us when we'veasked this question is. It's either like you're saying that people were the first
ones in their town or when you're getting back to the 80s and 90s when people
were first starting with brew pubs, that was like no one even knows how to run
00:24:00the plumbing for a brewery. And so what happens? So yeah, there's a lot more
resources in Asheville than they ran into. So along the same lines, were there
any specific challenges you did face when opening Archetype? Usually it's the
licensing thing or what people's mentioned at that point and permitting.
Steven Anan: We've said this before, I don't know how, but we didn't experience
any hugechallenge or roadblock, and I think that's because we knew when something
wasn't in our wheel house and we knew when to acknowledge that and to
outsource for that stuff.
Richard Cox: There you go.
Steven Anan: And it may have been a little bit more expensive upfront, but it
saved us time soit ended up balancing itself out.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: But I can't think of anything in particular, no.
Brad Casanova: No. I would say that the biggest challenge was after we opened,
things like HRmanagement.
Richard Cox: Oh, right.
Brad Casanova: That's not something that you can just wing and it works out.
00:25:00Richard Cox: Managing people.
Brad Casanova: Yes.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: And we're in a service industry town, which kind of makes things
a little bitmore challenging in terms of staffing on the tap room side.
Richard Cox: Just finding people?
Brad Casanova: There's just so much opportunity that it's really hard to push
people to say,"Let's make this place better," and them not think, "But I can make just as much
in a place that's not going to push me to be better."
Richard Cox: Right, right.
Brad Casanova: And they can get a job within three days because there's five new places
opening up down the street. There's so much activity here that it's easy for
people to just jump when they get a little stressed out. I think that makes it a
little bit more difficult to manage.
Richard Cox: Yeah. I think I already asked that one.
Brad Casanova: But we have amazing talent.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: That's the upside of that, is that people are so experienced. I
don't want to paintthat negative picture. It's a really great town to be in for talent.
Richard Cox: Yeah. It really ties together with what you were just saying, too
because thenyou're going to have the ones who are really talented who do want to be
00:26:00challenged because it's their thing.
Steven Anan: Right, right.
Richard Cox: Yeah. So you mentioned community outreach work that you do. Are
there someexamples of fundraising or community engagement work that you've all done in
the community?
Brad Casanova: Yeah. Well, one of our biggest, most exciting to me, is our
thanksgiving potluck.It's a chance for people that don't normally come in and the community to come
in and sit at one big long table and share dinner. It's an awesome experience
and I think that's part of it. It's not always about fundraising or big projects.
Sometimes, it's just about getting people together and it's people from all
different walks of life, and you know, that you normally wouldn't catch
together, and I think that's a really cool aspect of it without any agenda.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: It's just to sit down and share a meal. That's been one of my
favorite thingsthroughout the year. We've also decided to partner with Green Opportunities.
So we did a lot of work in the beginning, our first year and a half of finding great
00:27:00organizations and doing a project, an event. It took a lot of time and effort and
we decided to sort of focus our effort, someone at a craft brewers conference
referred to it as throwing confetti in the air. You're doing a lot of little
things butyou don't really feel like you can see a huge impact, and so we kind of recently
found that Green Opportunities align very well with our mission and
philosophies and values. And so, going forward they're going to be sort of our
first go-to for anything, and after that if we want to do side projects we can. But
hopefully make a bigger impact and find different ways to be able to do that
whether it be in-house, or exposure, or fundraising, or everything.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: Giving them opportunities, because they have an amazing amount of programs
there that reach so many different parts of the community. That's perfect for us.
00:28:00Richard Cox: Yeah. Great. So how do you see Archetype growing in the future?
Steven Anan: We just talked about this.
Richard Cox: Oh, good.
Steven Anan: Thankfully, Brad and I got a chance to hit the road for a few hours
and that waslike our annual meeting, owners meeting that we haven't had in a long time. I
think going back, again, going back to our core values, I think we're shooting for
more of an experience-driven brand as opposed to ... How do I say this? Not
necessarily production-driven so not looking to hit a certain quantity of barrels
per year.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: But if we're able to ... This expansion that we're doing now isn't
really expandingour production capacity at all. It might down the road expand our portfolio as
far as beer offerings, but what we're really looking to do is fulfill a need
especially in that area to have a neighborhood pub, to have an affordable event
00:29:00space that people can enjoy and use and trying to target those locals as
opposed to just reaping the benefits of this being a huge tourism town, which is
a plus, but we're here and we want to serve our community. I think that's what
we're trying to do, so growth for us looks more like that. Where it's experience-
driven as opposed to just production-driven.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Steven Anan: So if that means multiple locations that all offer different things
venue wise,then that's great. Down the road, if we need to expand production then great.
Richard Cox: Great.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: And that's another differentiation from a production brewery I
see is our coremodel is pints across the bar, so it's direct from maker to consumer. It allows us
to keep quality high, to keep control over things, and that's the experience we
00:30:00want people to have first. I think moving, expanding distribution wise is relevant
to that in terms of our beer tourism, and that's why you will see growth from us
from a distribution perspective but only to drive that experience right here. And
you see the larger production breweries opening up multiple tap rooms now,
and I think they're just capitalizing on that distribution base versus doing it to
kind of create more focus on that experience and that sort of drive. So growth
will be deliberate and focused on bringing people here eventually.
Richard Cox: and based on all that, can you talk a little bit about the second
location andwhat you see for it?
Brad Casanova: Sure, yeah. Okay.
Steven Anan: You've been immersed. Go for it.
Brad Casanova: Well, unfortunately we saw one of our local breweries shut down a
couple ofweeks ago, Habitat Brewing. We were doing startup at around the same time. I
00:31:00would go in there on my way to work here to just check in with them, see how
they were doing. I watched that process take place. They restored a beautiful
1920s brick building, hardwood floors, punched tin ceilings, they did a great job
restoring it and they created a great space. It's just north of town next to the
Moog building and foundation, a cool spot, a little tough for a single location
brewery in terms of they had to make all their beer there on wooden floors in
an old building. Not a lot of industrial elements that would help that, like we
have concrete and hard surfaces.
Brad Casanova: And so, it was a challenge for them. They shut down and we've
decided to sortof take over, carry on their community mission, because they did a lot of great
community work, but also be able to feed the beer from here helps with that
00:32:00process. So we'll do some production over there at some point once we can get
some permitting going. It's essentially a very different style tap room to here.
The elements are different, the feel is different, and that's sort of that
Archetype experience is. It's going to resonate with some people more than
others and just like this place does.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: We had a Google review that said this place was-
Steven Anan: Too clean.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. It was a low review because it said it was too clean and
well lit.Richard Cox: Okay. It's not a speakeasy.
Steven Anan: Yeah, we're not a dive bar.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: It just goes to show you there are people that don't want to be
in this reallybright open air new material building. They'd rather be in some creaky old
building with half the lighting that it should have because that's what speaks to
them. And so it gives us a really cool chance to show people that we're not one-
00:33:00sided, not Jekyll and Hyde, but diverse.
Richard Cox: Is that how you see the experience at that location being different
from this oneas like you're sort of taking what the building gives you and build around that?
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah. I would say so.
Richard Cox: Yeah. That's interesting. That could be fun.
Brad Casanova: It's going to be very different from this.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: I'm excited about it.
Richard Cox: I can tell. When are you thinking you're going to be in? I mean,
you said youdidn't have your permits yet.
Brad Casanova: We hope to open by St Paddy's day, a soft opening, which is just
around thecorner obviously, but it'll take some time to do some of the projects we really
want to do. But the point is just getting it back open again and creating a space
as people are starting to get out for the spring. We want to make sure that they
know we're going to be there, but it doesn't have to be perfect. We have a lot of
things we'd love to do, but I'd rather pour some beer and get some people in
there and excited about it.
Richard Cox: Yeah, absolutely. And Archetype was awarded Best In Show at the
00:34:002018 NorthCarolina Brewers Cup. How does that make you feel? Can you elaborate on
that?
Steven Anan: We were pretty stoked.
Richard Cox: You were offended. It was horrible.
Steven Anan: I was like double excited because a Belgian style beer took the entire
competition, so I was like, "This is what this is about."
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Richard Cox: What was the beer?
Steven Anan: We don't have it on right now, but we could throw some ... We'll
throw someon. We'll thrown some on for you guys after this.
Richard Cox: Tell me about it. Tell me what it is.
Steven Anan: It was our Belgian dark strong ale.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: It's about 11.2%. I think that version was 11.2. We have a new one
in the batchthat's slightly higher. But yeah, we brewed that late 2017. Let it age for a while
and all those alcohols just kind of mellowed out and it turned into this beautiful
Trappist style beer. Yeah, so there were 624 entries in the whole competition so
that beer took gold in the Trappist style ale competition, and then that was
00:35:00matched up against 32 other gold medal winners and it beat that out. The fact
that it was a Belgian style beer I'm like, "Ah."
Richard Cox: You're waving a Belgian flag, right?
Steven Anan: Yeah, that was cool. It was nice. It's always nice to be
recognized, and thatsolidifies, I think, how I view our SOPs and our processes and what we're doing.
It's nice to get that feedback from actual experienced trained tasters. We try to
get as much feedback as we can and we have very thick skin. If you don't like a
beer, I would hope that you would tell me and tell me why. So something like
this, it's nice to see that happen. And then when we went to go accept the
award, everyone was drinking and I was like, "This is so surreal." So yeah, we
were excited about that. It's hopefully just the beginning of many.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Well, you've won awards since then too, right?
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Like what? This is your moment to brag. Go ahead.
00:36:00Steven Anan: Go ahead.
Brad Casanova: This is a fun one. We went to Brew Horizons, sort of a new beer
festival in town.I went to the event, it was great. It later with my wife sitting down, got a text
and said we won two awards and I just started smiling and laughing. Corina, my
wife, turned to me and said, "What's so funny?", and I said, "Well, it turns out
we won some awards at the festival," and she goes, "Why'd you win an award
for?" I said, "Best dark beer and best light beer," and she goes, "What'd you
bring?" I said, "A dark beer and a light beer." It's fun to have that sort of
affirmation of the things that we're feeling about our beer.
Brad Casanova: It's not about boasting or bragging, it's about being proud. The
best part of thatBest In Show award was going to the Craft Brewers Conference that the NC
Guild put on and sitting down at lunch and everyone kept looking at my name
00:37:00tag and looking at me, and then finally someone said, "I just have to tell you,
that was an amazing beer that you all submitted. There was no question and
that was the best out of the gold medals." So, to me, it wasn't the award, it was
the excitement that the people had for it, and that just refills my tank and I can
keep going for a year because I know that all this hard work and the late nights
and the time that we give up with our kids and our wives is worth it because
we're creating something that inspires people and gets people excited about
beer.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: And that's the best part for me.
Steven Anan: Well said.
Brad Casanova: Thanks.
Steven Anan: That means we have to win one a year, man to keep you going, get
the tankfull?
Richard Cox: No pressure on you.
Brad Casanova: Yeah, no pressure.
Richard Cox: No pressure on you at all. So Archetype is young but you've both
been in thebusiness for a while. So how would you say the brewing scene has changed
since you first each went into the business? And you're coming from Colorado.
00:38:00Steven Anan: Man, I got lots to say about this but I'll withhold some of it.
Man, when I startedit was a totally, from my perspective it was a totally different industry.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: It wasn't focused on, and you know, this perspective might be
hyperlocal. Itwasn't so much focused on what do you have that's new, do you have the Hazy
API, do you have a pastry style, whatever. It's like what's your story, what do
you guys do, what are you all about. I feel like the consumer perspective has
shifted a little bit. We experienced some of that here as far as seeing consumers
come in and stay for one beer and then bounce to the next place. A lot of that
has to do with the congestion and the saturation of breweries here, so there are
a lot of options, and I don't mind that so much but it's when people come in and
00:39:00they don't see a Hazy IPA on our board and they're just like kind of bummed
about it. Like, man, we have 12 other options on that I think beats the pants off
of Hazy IPAs.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: So another shift I've seen and it kind of goes along with that is
the actualbusiness is having to continually pivot to match consumer taste and to match
trends and just to stay relevant. There are ways to avoid that. It takes a lot of
energy to avoid that, and I think you have to have a strong philosophy and a
strong mission statement to be able to avoid getting sucked into that weird
vortex that is just like pure consumer-driven. There's nothing wrong with that.
Every industry for the most part is consumer-driven to some extent.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: But when it's steered in a direction that is maybe a little
uneducated, I thinkthat's where businesses need to come in and be like, "This is how things should
00:40:00be done."
Richard Cox: Yeah. I just actually made a note right before you said uneducated.
It sounds likea lot of what you're talking about is educating the consumers here.
Steven Anan: Right.
Richard Cox: I didn't mean to interrupt, but you hit something I was thinking.
Steven Anan: Yeah. And we've experienced that the second our first Brett beer
hit the board,the next day we were like, "Okay, we're going to have to find some
workarounds for this." There are some consumers where if you have to explain
a product as simple as a beer, something consumable, you've already lost them.
But there are those people that gravitate towards those more complex like
unknown styles of beer or production methods or whatever, those early
adopters that latch onto these things.
Steven Anan: There's a lot of misinformation. We heard a lot of, "Oh, I don't
like sour beers,"when they saw Brett on something. Okay. We don't do any sour beers, this is
what Brett means, this is the profile that we get out of this. So honestly, getting
00:41:00someone to try a specific style is the issue. It's not getting someone to drink that
or order another one. It's getting them to initially try it.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: So we've done things like hosting private tastings, like Brett
tastings specificallywhere it's a private event, we pull special bottles or kegs and we talk about
what the difference is between this alternative yeasts and these alternative
brewing processes, things like that. Knowing where to draw the line where
you're not overloading people with information and you're not insulting them,
because everybody has their taste. I've had Hazy IPAs that I love.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: We don't do that here from a longevity perspective. Again, chasing
trends isn'tpart of our business model.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: It might be easy to get some quick attention by doing that, but
00:42:00from a longevityperspective, again, we've tried to avoid doing things like that and really tried to
carve out our own niche and stay true to our philosophies.
Richard Cox: Yeah. You have, what? Three IPAs up right now anyway.
Steven Anan: Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. Come on, if one of those three doesn't do
it for you, Igot nothing. I got nothing for you.
Brad Casanova: And that's on the low side of what we normally have, and still
it's not enough forsome people that just want that hazy.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: And that's fine. There are a lot of good ones around town. At some
point, itbecomes redundant. It's like do you want us to do a Hazy IPA when there are
other people doing great ones, or do you want something new and fresh that
you've never had before?
Richard Cox: Something that fills a niche that's not there, yeah. Do you have anything?
Brad Casanova: I would say a local challenge is that, I think in general, the
consumer's becomingmore educated about styles, about all flavors, but on the other side, we're
seeing such an influx of tourism that I think, you know, ... I used to be able to
see that trend happening and then it kind of died back off because we had so
00:43:00many people coming in that really didn't have access to a lot of craft beer so
they just naturally were less educated. You had a lot of people coming in that
said they were BJCP certified and then Cicerones, and this and that, and now it's
back to sort of that huge tourism from these areas that don't have a developed
craft beer market in their neighborhood and we're back to having to educate. I
think that's an extra challenge being in Asheville because people just come here
from these less developed craft beer markets.
Richard Cox: And they're like, "Just give me a beer."
Steven Anan: They just want to drink, yeah, yeah. Beer City, USA.
Richard Cox: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Similar question. What's it like for you all
to work in theindustry today?
Steven Anan: That was my note for that was that it's cool to see the consumer education
going up.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: And people realizing what high quality beer is as opposed to just
00:44:00not a qualityproduct or something that's really just chasing trends. I think people are starting
to notice what actual true innovation is as well, which is kind of cool. I think
things like awards help that, just help expose that sort of thing. In the industry
in general, there's a lot of comradery but there's also like some silent
competition. It's like everyone's friends but we all know that we're like in
competition with each other.
Richard Cox: It's still all businesses, yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah. And so, it's kind of fun to be a part of that. It's fun to go
to these ABAshindigs for Christmas parties and whatever and hang out with all of your peers
and then everyone's best friends and then you leave and you go to work the
next day and you're making your product and you're trying to do it better than
anyone else and you're trying to stand out. There's a little bit of a duality there,
00:45:00but we all help each other too.
Steven Anan: John Silver over at Homeplace has bailed us out with Hops before
and viceversa. He was using our keg washer for a while, so if we can lend a hand to our
peers we do and I love that aspect of it. Other than that, it's just kind of
watching the trends and watching the market growth and watching how the BA
responds to that stuff and how they react and how that trickles down.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: I think the next few years might be kind of interesting.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. Constant struggle to stay I think relevant. I think there's
an overall growthhere thankfully with that growth and tourism too, it's really kind of expanded
our means here. People talk about a saturation point. How can there be a
saturation point if you've got twice as many tourists as you did three years ago?
00:46:00You've got all these ancillary businesses popping up. They're driving this, they're
marketing it, they're advertising, they're bringing people to town so it keeps
growing and growing and growing, but I think one of the big keys is to stay
relevant and exciting. And so long as you stay within that pool, you'll keep
growing but some are going to fall by the wayside. Habitat closing is definitely
not the last in town.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Brad Casanova: It's going to keep happening, but that's healthy and that's good,
and I'm lookingforward to just that growth and strengthening up our local market, and if it
means some of these businesses that aren't doing these things to stay up with it
could sort of fall by the wayside. It's a sad side of capitalism and business.
Richard Cox: Right.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Cool. We've been talking about trends. Are there any that you actually
00:47:00particularly like or dislike? You mentioned IPAs as being something that's ... Are
there any you'd like that you're interested in?
Steven Anan: Yeah. I think enough people have talked about the whole Hazy IPA, Pastry
Stouts thing.
Richard Cox: People have opinions, yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah. I like the fact that lagers are making a strong comeback just
because that's... I mean, you ask almost anybody in the industry, and I think that's what they
prefer to drink as a daily drink, so I dig that. Brett is kind of making a name for
itself so that's pretty cool to see that. It's in line with what we're doing. It's
taking a little bit to get some momentum behind it, but it's definitely gaining
some attention. Yeah, those are probably my two favorite ones. I really like
drinking lagers.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Well, I mean just a couple years ago, how many people would
know whata schwarzbier is?
Steven Anan: Right, right.
Richard Cox: And now you see them. Brett's another interesting one because
people seem toassume it's always a really sour beer just because of the yeast. Interesting.
00:48:00Steven Anan: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. I think the trends of mixed culture and lagers, now styles
that you can'thide behind as much as throwing hops at something or adjuncts where you're
sort of forced into really looking at the quality and how you're making it and
your ingredients. Anything like that, I'm excited about because it really brings
you back to really just core well-balanced beer that doesn't have to blow out
your taste buds or make your stomach upset because you've had 20 ounces of
sour or super sour beer. Essentially, you're just drinking acid at that point.
Steven Anan: Right.
Brad Casanova: I appreciate that. I think there's a delicateness that goes with
this sort of trendof staying really focused on your process.
00:49:00Richard Cox: And what role do you see breweries such as Archetype playing in
changes thathave been happening in Asheville, which you've already touched on with your
neighborhood?
Steven Anan: I would like to think we're a big proponent of quality beer and not
making lazybeer, and if we can challenge our peers to do the same, I'm not going to sit here
and say we make the best beer in Asheville, but I think we do a good job at what
we do, and if we can inspire people to do better, then at the end of the day
that's great, that's awesome.
Brad Casanova: Trying to maintain a healthy ABV I think is a big part of what we
do. It's beerthat's meant to be consumed and enjoyed not pounded and not meant to be
overwhelming your senses or meant to be abused. Yeah. I think it's creating
more of a ... This is a kid friendly space and we try and push that during the day.
00:50:00We have story time, things like that. It's different, we get some flak sometimes,
but the people that have come to story time see a bunch of parents sitting with
their kids listening to an actual teacher read some books and teach something.
It's daylight, it's bright, it's open in here, and that to me is a healthy way to
incorporate that craft beer experience into lifestyle in a healthy way.
Brad Casanova: Some breweries have taken the wrong direction in terms of just
allowing it to bejust a madhouse. They sort of foster that by saying, "Here's this area over here."
I mean, I've heard of breweries having like little corrals and kids just go in.
Richard Cox: Lock them up and-
Brad Casanova: We're not trying to separate that. We're trying to say have a
00:51:00healthy experience,have something that you're really focusing on and tasting versus just drinking to
have an effect, and I think that's the difference. You're always going to have the
critics, but I think that's sort of what we always try and keep in mind, especially
when we're designing our board and keeping those ABVs long enough that
people can have that experience. We stand behind it by our product, and that's
sort of-
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah. If we can deglamorize the heavy drinking or over consumption culture,
that's a big plus for us too. Having a sign or a sandwich board as you're walking
out saying like, "An Uber or a taxi is cheaper than a DUI." That's on the back of
our sandwich board, being responsible about it. I think that's where people get
lost with allowing kids in here because they're like, "Oh, people are getting
trashed and their kids are right here observing." It's like yeah, but you're
kind ofmissing the point a little bit. We don't want to be a daycare but we want this to
00:52:00be a space for everybody, and if you're in here slamming beers and you're super
drunk at 5:00 PM, that's kind of your own problem. This is not the space for
that.
Richard Cox: There's another issue there.
Steven Anan: Right.
Richard Cox: Right. Yeah. If you had a crystal ball, where would you sort of see
the brewingindustry going in three to five years, or where are you seeing it heading maybe?
More lagers?
Steven Anan: Maybe, maybe.
Richard Cox: Maybe. Who knows.
Steven Anan: I don't know. Yeah. Who knows what the trends are going to be. I
think trendsare probably going to move faster. They're going to come up and die faster than
they have, and I think social media and marketing has a lot to do with that.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: That's steers the industry in some weird direction sometimes. And
then, thisindustry's gone to an extreme and I think we're at that point or maybe coming
out of that point where creativity kind of gets lost behind novelty.
00:53:00Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: And I think consumers are starting to see that, so you see a lot of breweries
starting to backpedal on some of these novelty beers and actually change their
format a little bit. I'm hoping that stays in that direction. Other than that, I don't
know. InBev is still taking shots at us with weird commercials. I don't know. I
can't wait to see where that goes next Super Bowl.
Richard Cox: We should be more worried if they stopped.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Anything from your side?
Brad Casanova: Business wise, I think I see a lot more collaboration and
consolidation from lessof a conglomerate or corporate aspect, but more of maybe some sort of groups
or co-ops being created by multiple breweries that can pull their resources and
lower their overhead and kind of gain strength by saying, "We're actually a
00:54:00partnership of three or four breweries in this region. So hey, come see the next
place when you come into town next weekend."
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: I see that happening over this sort of buyout big pump and dump,
sort of get bigand sell. I don't see that happening as much.
Richard Cox: Yeah. So, some general questions. What do you see as unique about southern
beer and maybe North Carolina beer specifically, if anything?
Steven Anan: I tend to go back to people like Riverbend. It's not a brewery
obviously. They'rea supplier, but I think there are a lot of suppliers here that are trying to
shift thebrewing culture to more of a local experience, and the terroir
thing, that's super relevant here and in the south. We can grow great barley in
North Carolina, and we have people like Riverbend that are heading a lot of that
00:55:00research and development working with universities, et cetera. I think that
makes North Carolina pretty unique as far as southern beer. I see the south as
kind of being, not necessarily North Carolina, but some of the south, being of
slightly behind areas like Colorado, Denver, the New England area. It's not
necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's an idiosyncrasy of the south.
Richard Cox: Yeah. And some of the legislation and law as well.
Steven Anan: Right. And that's really what caused all that, yeah.
Brad Casanova: I sort of see it's tough for us to look beyond our backyard.
Richard Cox: Right.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. There's so many breweries here and beers here that just to
stay relevantup to date on what's happening in town - there goes your beer budget.
Richard Cox: True.
Brad Casanova: Luckily, a lot of it's friendly here.
00:56:00Steven Anan: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: I'll pour you a pint but still you got to spend time and energy
really seeingwhat's going on here, and at that point to reach beyond it it's like well, it really
makes it difficult to get a good feel for what's happening, what's happening in
the northeast, what's happening in the west coast. Until it becomes a general
trend and people start asking about it or talking about it here, in our local area,
that it's tough to see that. So I think we're pretty isolated when it comes to that.
We don't have as much travel back and forth. A lot of people wind up here and
then stay here, so they might bring some information with them, but there
tends to not be a continuous exchange of sort of new ideas and taste. It's
difficult. So it's important to go to things like CBC and really get out there and
make connections outside of our little world in North Carolina.
00:57:00Richard Cox: Right. Yeah. Makes sense. So for you, what would you say is your
favorite recipethat you've created that you're most proud of? Not necessarily the one you
most like to drink but when you came up with your recipe.
Steven Anan: We got, we got ... Which yours?
Brad Casanova: Timely. Timely.
Richard Cox: We'll start with you then. Tell me about it.
Brad Casanova: No, you tell.
Steven Anan: We did this mixed culture Saison called Timely Surrender. We
actually just didanother batch. It takes quite a while, it's a three to four month beer
conditioning wise. Yeah, that one was ... I was just looking to make a really
intense kind of rustic Saison. I think the initial goal was to make a Saison so like
intense that people didn't want to drink it so I just could end up drinking the
whole thing. It ended up working pretty well. We kind of partnered with
Riverbend again on that one and did 100% Riverbend malt beer, and using those
00:58:00really super fresh ingredients I think it definitely carries over and you can
tell inthe end product.
Steven Anan: That was only in stainless. We didn't do any barrel aging on that
but it was justlike this, I think it was about 5.5%, maybe high fives, nice little bone dry super
crispy light Saison. It was really intense, it had a lot of Brett character and not
necessarily like barnyard funk, but a lot of floral notes, a lot of like citrus tropical
notes, so it was really intense upfront and then it just finished super clean.
So Iwasn't anticipating it being like a consumption beer, but it ended up being like,
"Oh, man, I could have another pint of this because the finish is so clean."
It's sodry so that those residual sugars aren't there to kind of fill you up. So it was a
really nice pleasant refreshing beer. It was a hit here.
00:59:00Steven Anan: I wasn't really expecting it to take off. I thought it was going to
be like a sleeperhit where we had a few regulars that would come in and just crush it, but we
purposefully didn't use the word Brettanomyces or Brett when we put it on the
board. We just called it Saison and it sold really well. People really loved it,
Riverbend guys were going nuts for it so we're doing another batch. This round
we'll bottle maybe half of this batch.
Richard Cox: Awesome.
Steven Anan: So bottle condition, we'll just make it a little bit better.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Would that be your favorite recipe too? That was yours.
Steven Anan: Man, I think so maybe. The strong ale was cool but yeah, I've used these
ingredients that were in the strong ale quite a bit whereas the Saison, it was
new malts that I don't have a ton of experience with as far as the supplier. And
then Brett kind of does its own thing sometimes. It's harder to anticipate the
01:00:00end result with certain Brett strains and we just kind of let it do its thing. The
primary fermentation was the Saison strain and then we dropped that out when
it was done and hit it with Brett and it just kind of trickled along for three more
months. It was just a pretty good beer. I think the way I described it it was
like aliquified grapefruit, like the whole thing in a glass, and I just wanted to take it
down to Florida and sit on a beach and drink a keg of it.
Richard Cox: That's good marketing, man.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: You like working with Brett? Aside question. People seem to be-
Steven Anan: Yeah. It's fun to experiment with. We're not afraid of it here. We
haven't hadany issues yet.
Richard Cox: Let me back up. Can you tell us what Brett is for those, what we've
been talkingabout because we talked about Brett a few times.
Steven Anan: Yeah. It's not a guy.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: It's not sour, it's not a sour agent. It's yeast. It's in a
different class thanSaccharomyces. It's not technically brewer's yeast, it's a wild yeast strain. It can
01:01:00break down longer changed sugars than Saccharomyces can, which gives you a
dryer beer. That's something that you may have noticed about all of our beers,
is they're very dry but not in such a way that they're unbalanced. I think it
makes them more sessionable and I think it's makes them more balanced and
more complex. We've gotten that a lot that our beers are ... Some of these
beers I finish with literally no measurable sugar in solution.
Steven Anan: They finish and they have a little bit of perceived sweetness
because it's abalanced beer and because of our processes or recipe formulation or extended
aging, et cetera, knowing how to manipulate those things. It took some time to
really get comfortable with certain Brett strains and every one, every Brett
strain is different. There are some Brett strains that can't ferment maltose so
01:02:00you can't use it as a single strain. You use it in a co-fermentation and use it with
a blend of other Brett strains or other Sacc strains, et cetera.
Steven Anan: But I think it helps us stand out as created products that are very
unique to us. Ithink we have a very unique - I wouldn't call it a house flavor, because all of our
beers are very different, but there's a consistency amongst them that I feel like
we're pretty good at achieving and that separates us from a lot of people.
Richard Cox: Awesome. Brad, let's start over here again. Do you have a favorite
beer from aNorth Carolina brewery other than Archetype?
Brad Casanova: Let me think about it for a minute.
Richard Cox: Sure.
Steven Anan: Does New Belgium count?
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: 1554 is like my go-to. It's such an incredible beer.
Richard Cox: I'm so shocked that you like the dark lager.
Steven Anan: It's so good. That might be like one of my top five island beers,
01:03:00like desertedisland beers. That one's a solid one. Yeah.
Brad Casanova: I kind of rotate. Fat Tire, original Fat Tire, we're talking back
in 2001, wasdefinitely the beer that got me into craft beer and this was back when you
couldn't get it here anyway. I was in Arizona at the time and it just blew my
mind and it was fresh and just incredible. But I'm always changing. 1554 is one
of my favorites.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: I used to really Hi-Wire's brown, but I think it was less of a
thinking beer andmore of just like a mindless sort of like barbecue beer, but that was the age I
was at when I was like that, so it's always changing but yeah.
01:04:00Richard Cox: So if Archetype had a flagship or signature beer, maybe not
necessarily yourpersonal favorite, but if there's one that maybe you have that when people
think Archetype, that's the beer they think of, like a Fat Tire for New Belgium for
example.
Steven Anan: I've always wanted our witbier to be that beer, but it's hard to
get people todrink a witbier because there's a lot of poorly done witbiers out there.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: When you get like a fresh balanced witbier it's like the best warm
weather beeryou can get. That kind of goes against what we're trying to do in that we don't
identify with one beer as a flagship.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Steven Anan: But personally, I want to get a witbier in their hands first
because if they aren't awitbier drinker and they have a witbier, they're probably going to like it and
that'll kind of open them up to some of these other styles that we're doing.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Absolutely. Any you would think of?
01:05:00Brad Casanova: Cowboy Poet or Unruly Mystic, so our light lager, American light
lager, and ourcoffee porter I think speak to the most people in general.
Steven Anan: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: And the branding and packaging on them is probably the most
appealing toeveryone overall in terms of the feedback that we've gotten.
Richard Cox: Yeah.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. It's sort of hard to use the term flagship with the
philosophy that we have.Steven Anan: Yeah.
Richard Cox: That makes sense. Yeah. That's a great answer honestly. So what are your
favorite Archetype beers?
Steven Anan: Again, I could drink witbier every day.
Richard Cox: Every day.
Steven Anan: I could drink it for breakfast.
Richard Cox: Talking to plants, right.
Steven Anan: I don't have a drinking problem. Yes, talking to plants, it's just
such a good, likealmost feels like a light meal sometimes but it's just a really nice crisp thirst-
01:06:00quenching beer. I really like our Liber Novus which was our 14 month barrel-
aged Belgian red ale. It's really good. It almost drinks like a champagne. It's
darker so it doesn't look like one, but we did bottle-condition that, very highly
carbonated and it's a really, really nice light barrel-aged non-sour beer.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Awesome.
Steven Anan: So I really dig that one.
Brad Casanova: I have to bring the blonde back out. They haven't had it on, yeah
the blonde.Steven Anan: All right. Okay.
Brad Casanova: It's incredible in the summer, it changes about three times as
you're drinking itand it's-
Steven Anan: Yeah. It blooms.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. It's a really cool beer. And then Timely of course, but
things like evensomething some people might call boring is the English Bitter on Nitro.
01:07:00Steven Anan: 3.9%, it's just like a really, really nice light flavorful nitro
beer. It's ordinarybitter. That was a fun one.
Brad Casanova: Yeah. And that's a beer that I love because it surprises people
and they try it andthey go, "Wow. I didn't know I'd like this."
Richard Cox: It's a style a lot of people still don't really know.
Brad Casanova: Right.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Great.
Brad Casanova: We put a pilot batch on just to test it out. And we had a guy
come in the nextweekend said he had driven like 40 minutes to get here to have that beer, and
we had to tell him sorry, it was just a one keg. But it's experiences like that that
really drive us and say if people are that passionate about it, we need to at least
give it some attention.
Richard Cox: Yeah. And that fits more with your mission about flagship beers.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Steven Anan: Right.
Richard Cox: Yeah. Great. Awesome.
Steven Anan: Cool.
Richard Cox: That's all I have.
Brad Casanova: All right.
01:08:00Richard Cox: Is there anything I missed that you want to talk about or want to
add before wecall it a day?
Steven Anan: Do you all want to shut this camera off and drink some beer? I'll
chill down abottle for you guys.
Brad Casanova: I'll say one thing, and that's the unspoken true heroes of small
business andbreweries are the wives and the families and the support that comes with this
because starting a small business is not easy, the pressure, the work and what
you give up and the constant just struggle to be a stand out. So having a
supportive wife at home and kids that are understanding and just love to see
you is just, that makes that possible.
Richard Cox: Absolutely.
Brad Casanova: And we're both lucky to have amazing families.
Steven Anan: Absolutely.
Richard Cox: Awesome.
Brad Casanova: Yeah.
Richard Cox: Thank you both.
Brad Casanova: Thank you.
Steven Anan: Thank you.
Richard Cox: I appreciate it.
Brad Casanova: Appreciate it.
01:09:00