Oral history interview with Jessica Reiser, 2019

Richard Cox: All right, so if you can start by saying and spelling your name.

Jessica Reiser: My name is Jessica Reiser. J-E-S-S-I-C-A. Reiser is R-E-I-S-E-R.

Richard Cox: Okay, and today is Wednesday, February 27, 2019 and we are at Burial Beer Company in Asheville, North Carolina. My name is Richard Cox and I'm talking today with Jess Reiser, co-founder and co-owner, as part of the Well Crafted NC Project.

Richard Cox: So if we could start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, absolutely. Well, as you just stated, I am co-founder and co-owner of Burial Beer Co. Kind of beyond that, I guess I would go into various things like I am the mother of two children, Axel and Nash who are five and 00:01:00seven. I'm originally, I guess from Brooklyn. It's kind of convoluted. That's where I spent most of my childhood. I was born in London, England and have lived in places like New Orleans and Seattle. We moved from Seattle to Asheville to open Burial, six or so years ago.

Richard Cox: You specifically came here because of Burial?

Jessica Reiser: We did, yep.

Richard Cox: Oh, interesting.

Jessica Reiser: I met Doug who is my husband and co-founder in college in Ohio, and then we met Tim who is my other business partner in Seattle when we were living there, so again, the three of us traveled cross-country to open the business. I majored in history in college and then went on to get a Master's in Arts Administration, with the goal to work in, of course, a non-profit arts sector, focusing on whether it was development work or marketing. You know, lives take us in all different kinds of directions, so I did do some of that 00:02:00work for a few years, but ended up working at a really wonderful non-profit in Seattle called Plymouth Housing Group doing development work. They provide previously homeless adults with permanent housing and that was the position that I left to move to Asheville to start Burial.

Richard Cox: That's very cool.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah.

Richard Cox: Yeah, so, especially considering your traveling, how did you first become interesting in the brewing industry.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, so that was definitely Tim, I would say. Doug and I had been beer drinkers prior to meeting Tim. It was definitely more on the macro level, just early twenties kind of budget and all that stuff. Also, living in New Orleans, they did not have any semblance of a craft beer scene when we were living there. We went to Seattle after New Orleans, so that was 2009, I believe. We met Tim pretty soon after we moved there and he had already established this 00:03:00love affair with craft beer, so he definitely started to introduce us to different styles at his house. I became personally fascinated with the historical elements, so talking about Belgium beers and wild yeast and cantion and the river in Belgium and just cool that that aspect was.

Jessica Reiser: So the three of us would get frequently and it would turn into more theme things, like IPA tasting or sour beer tastings. I used take around a journal of sorts and write about experiences that we were happening at different beer bars or breweries. And Tim was kind of known for writing reviews on beers, kind of in the privacy of his own home, like would sit with like a 750 and write a review. The three of us started thinking about sharing that information with 00:04:00the public and so we started a blog. It was definitely more for our outlets, like creative outlets. We didn't ever pursue it in any kind of advertisement or really push it the way that we could.

Jessica Reiser: But in participating in just blogging, we became more connected with the craft beer community in Seattle and starting meeting different bar owners and brewery owners. And kind of from there, that started to really solidify the idea of what this could look like as far as a lifestyle and a career. And the three of us were all in careers that we enjoyed but were definitely all starting to rethink what the future could look like as far as where those careers were going and what the trajectory and kind of end game would look like. Would that be in the non-profit sector, Tim was working for a trucking company doing marketing and analysis. And Doug was a construction litigator.

Richard Cox: Oh wow.

Jessica Reiser: So basically it was just a crossroad in general for the three of us, kind of at similar times. Coupled with the ... Both the love of the product but also the fascination and with the community aspect of the craft beer industry. At some point, I don't know a specific day, but I think the three of us were kind of like, this is the time, we want to open a brewery. So from then, it probably took us like three years. We knew that we didn't want to do it in Seattle. We wanted a smaller city that had more community where we could really feel like we were making an impact and where we knew this was where we were gonna put down roots.

Jessica Reiser: At the time, Doug and I had a one year old, when we moved across country. So we were like selling our condo, there were like logistics to figure out. So I would say about three years from the time the three of us were like, we're gonna do this, to when we actually did it. We came to Asheville in October 00:06:00of 2012, or September of 2012. And we opened here June of 2013. So once we got here, it didn't take all that long for us to open. We were super small though, of course.

Richard Cox: So I'm gonna back up slightly for something you said which is, when you first realized there was a craft beer scene. 'Cause like you said, when you started it was macro beers. So do you remember what it was like when you were first like, there's this whole other different thing that's ... A whole different aspect of this larger thing called beer that you hadn't been introduced to. I ask, not just because to compare it to but that actually changed your life in a professional way-

Jessica Reiser: It did yeah.

Richard Cox: In that moment.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, I mean I think it felt very inspirational. And so again, really started to direct our lives outside of our day jobs in a lot of ways. 00:07:00Again, trips we would take would be beer focused trips, and so we would visit breweries and beer bars and I felt like we were all very much like soaking in every single facet of the beer industry. From branding to the consumer experience when you're out and about. To just the product quality and styles and so it just became just a really intense hobby for quite awhile.

Richard Cox: And do you think that, for lack of a better word, do you think that the journalism that you all were doing at the time, within the industry affected things later down the road and how you decided to do Burial? Just from what you-

Jessica Reiser: I think so, I mean I think that the journaling is a way to remember and document, right? And so I think that it was just a testament to just how we were not just out experiencing, this was a very intentional ... We 00:08:00were having very international experiences with craft beer for quite awhile before we open Burial. You know, it was passion, it was a love and it was again, just this intentional ... We're not just here to drink beer, I'm here to absorb and document all the different kind of ... You know, innuendos at different places. And just again, to be able to reflect back. Like you went on a trip to San Francisco and visiting 15 different places, like how can you kind of look back and use that as like a memoir of sorts also.

Richard Cox: And bring it all together. And you mentioned of course, you mentioned coming to Asheville as a matter of ... You knew you wanted to put roots here. So what was it about Asheville, it's sort of a two pronged question, Asheville that drew you here and then specifically with Burial, why South Slope? And this fascinating location.

Jessica Reiser: Yes, so the location had ... I'll get to it, but the location 00:09:00definitely has a story, for sure. So Asheville, when Tim, Doug and I were like, okay we're gonna do this, but where? We all knew we wanted to get back east, so it started with that. And I'm from New York, Doug is from Ohio and Tim is from outside of Philadelphia. So it was certainly, like I said, Doug and I had a one year old at the time. We just wanted to get east. We wanted to look for a smaller city. I think the three of us were ... I personally have lived in big cities aside from like my stint in college, my whole life. And I think we were all like really wary of opening a small business in a big city.

Jessica Reiser: We definitely took a lot of inspiration for Seattle. Like the idea of a nano-brewery was very prevalent at that time in Seattle because the city and the state make it pretty easy to open a brewery and they really support that industry. And so opening small doesn't cost a ton of money, so people are more willing to do it. And you know, we were living in like a 500 square foot 00:10:00condo, with a child and you know, it's an expensive city to live in, so there were a lot of driving forces as far as like just the sheer size of the city and what comes along with living in major metropolitan cities, that we were like, okay we wanna look for something a little smaller.

Jessica Reiser: So we looked at, it was Charleston, Asheville were kind of the two main cities. And Asheville inevitably fits a little more with our personalities, the mountains kind of reminiscent of the pacific northwest and that outdoor culture. And then as well as it already having an established beer scene when we opened. Charleston certainly had breweries but has grow immensely from 2012. I mean there were only like a handful.

Jessica Reiser: So we definitely were attracted to the fact that there were already breweries here. And that meant that there's a community and that there are resources and just support there. So that was definitely something that attracted us to Asheville. Along with the size of course.

Jessica Reiser: And as far as the South Slope goes, this was not the South Slope that we know today.

Richard Cox: Right.

Jessica Reiser: Of course Green Man was here and then French Broad Chocolate had their factory space. They didn't even have like the little retail shop and then there was ENO which is now Urban Orchard. And you know, that's just a manufacturing situation for their hammocks and stuff. We stumbled upon South Slope mainly because we were looking in the River Arts district, but back in 2012, that was a fairly under developed area also and just the things that we needed from a space to be a licensed alcoholic retailer, a lot of landlords were looking more for an under the radar artist space. So we just weren't really finding what we needed from that area.

Jessica Reiser: So the South Slope, we found this space and it was a lot smaller 00:12:00than it is now. At least from what we were able to access, yes. And it was affordable, so that's what we were looking for. Because it was just the three of us, we don't have any investors, this is all self-financed to start. And we were starting as a one barrel brewery so we definitely had a lot of constraints surrounding what options we had. So it certainly wasn't our premonition of like, The South Slope's gonna become like a good downtown extension. I mean, it was just one of those, right place, right time sort of situations.

Richard Cox: Yeah, you mentioned you started as a one barrel brewery house. What are you up to now?

Jessica Reiser: Well so, here is a 10 barrel brewery and we have one 30 barrel fermentor which is what we use to fill the futer's, which are 30 barrels. And then at the second location, we have a 20 barrel, four vessel brew house ... Or three vessel, sorry with 60 barrel fermenters. And then a couple 20's for like tap room only stuff.

Jessica Reiser: So we started out making ... This is kind of an easier way to 00:13:00document it for people. So we started at 150 barrels per year and then we went up to 1,500 barrels and now we're at 10,000 barrels.

Richard Cox: That's amazing leaps.

Jessica Reiser: So that's ... Yeah, the trajectory. And the expansion was from 150 to 1,500, took a year and a half to two years. And then from the 1,500 to the 10,000 to where we've kind of maxed out was another like year and a half, two years. And we've been brewing at the second location for like two and a half years.

Jessica Reiser: So yeah, this space, when we first opened, had 8 taps. It was about three fourth's of the size because we did not have access to the space right here, which is where the brew house is. The landlord at the time had split up the spaces. And we did have access ... We only had one bathroom, we didn't have a sink under the bar 'cause we didn't have plumbing there, it was out in 00:14:00the hallway. And this back patio area, was uncovered without garage doors and all of that. And then the outdoor space ended, basically like right there and we did not have access to the back patio, or back area.

Richard Cox: So you've been able to do a lot with this space.

Jessica Reiser: We have done a lot with this space. So you know, once we expanded, we were able to purchase this property. So once we expanded the brew house, you know we poured the dock out there, we added the cooler, we increased the amount of bathrooms that we have. We beautified this back patio area. We beautified the outside. We're about to open a roof deck next month. We've added a kitchen and so yes, it's been ... And it's been transforming throughout the years. That's something that I think people are always like coming in and being like, "What's gonna be different this time?" You know?

Richard Cox: But it seems very organic as well-

Jessica Reiser: Yeah exactly! Oh absolutely. I mean the merch shop, that used to be our office and now it has coolers and merchandise for to-go. Yeah, it's kind of crazy to think about what the space used to look like.

Richard Cox: That's amazing. So when you were opening. I mean, were there any resources or people or that you had to draw upon, like expertise to help you through opening and growing the brewery? 'Cause you guys were, as far as this area's concerned, you were early.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, we were early as far as the area. I mean, there were certain like Green Man, Wedge, Asher Brewing Company, just to name a few. Wicked Weed had just opened and Highwire opened like a couple weeks after us. You know, I would say, I'd have to give a shout out to ABC on that. Asher Brewing Company. Those guys were just so supportive of us and just really ... And Green Man too. I mean, they were there to kind of collaborate with us so that we had beer on 00:16:00tap because we were only open Friday, Saturday ... Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And you know, the stress back then was that we would legitimately run out of beer and have to close.

Richard Cox: One barrel.

Jessica Reiser: One barrel, right. It's two kegs at a time. So you know, working with them on collaborating and them being able to have beers on tap that were ours and learning from them and those processes. It was really helpful. And then you know, throughout the early years, it certainly like other breweries, Wicked Weed, Highwire and we've been able to pay it back since then. You know, you're out of malt or the order didn't come or what have you. You know, but everyone's always been like very willing and able to help each other out so kind of back in the day when there were only like five to 10 of us, really. You know, it definitely felt like a more like tight knit network of people.

Richard Cox: Yeah, and that's an interesting thing about this industry. How it's 00:17:00so very ... Obviously, it's all independent businesses and its' competition but there's this layer of cooperation-

Jessica Reiser: Oh absolutely yeah-

Richard Cox: That seems very unique to the craft brewing industry as well.

Jessica Reiser: It is, absolutely. I mean I think that you know, since then, our kind of partnerships, friendships have developed not just here in Asheville but nationally and even internationally which has been a very inspiring piece of just continuing to own this business in year six. Just the amount of people that we've been able to form relationships with. Both learn from and also seek just like support as far as like, "Hey, we're doing this and you are too. And it's hard sometimes." You know, "What troubles do you face? And how do you deal with those on a day to day basis?" And to be able to have those like open honest conversations with ... Not just brews in Asheville, but breweries in different market places is really rewarding.

Richard Cox: Absolutely, yeah. And you touched on this all ready when we talking about the property so, what was ... I guess both Asheville and South Slope like 00:18:00in 2013.

Jessica Reiser: It was less busy. You know, every year our like perception or expectation changes. Where you know, we used to look ... Even just to look at numbers, you know? And you're like, we used to be like ... That used to be like a really great Saturday say, and now it just like continues to build on that. You know, when we first opened, there was a lot of more locals like accessing the South Slope also. Like that has been a shift certainly. Tourism is a thing here in Asheville, which it is for many cities, I mean New Orleans being one that comes to mind. A city that certainly, one of their biggest industries is service and therefore tourism. And you know, so we certainly are super grateful 00:19:00for you know, the influx of people who want to come and experience Asheville and Burial and definitely see the positive economic development that comes from that. I think that the challenging thing is always that there are people who are kind of like, invested in this community on a day to day basis, us included, and how can we just provide a space for those people because they are the foundation.

Jessica Reiser: So it's definitely a dynamic that being in this area, that back in the day was a place that people could park whenever or wherever and you know, could easily access. They didn't have to wait in lines. And now that has shifted so that's definitely been like a dynamic over the years. Just this year, like customer base.

Richard Cox: Well it's probably a shift for you as well. Like you say, you're going to where you'll have a beer release and there's like lines around a corner.

Jessica Reiser: And just it's become a high volume place you know, on the weekends and from May to September, it's all the time. We're lucky on a beautiful day that we have the capacity and it all works out. But it certainly is a different dynamic than back in the day when it was Doug, Tim and I bartending and presenting our special flight for the day to the 12 people that were sitting at the bar. You know? Like that is a dynamic that is from the history and from the past and that there are several people who remember that and I think hold that very dear to their hearts and are very, very happy to see like where we've gone and the hard work ... 'Cause they saw the hard work, they saw like my little baby attached to me while I was washing glassware. So they know that we paid our dues and that a lot of this is just growth of this city, but we don't see them as often. It's a thing. It's changed but it's necessarily 00:21:00the good or the bad, it's just different.

Richard Cox: Was it a sudden shift for you all? Like you're doing that then one day you realize, there's suddenly a line out the door and you're like, "This is weird!"

Jessica Reiser: I wouldn't say it was sudden. It was probably like one summer, probably like four years ago, we were like, "Oh, okay. Like this is crazy!" And then that season, we definitely have a down season in Asheville which is like January, February.

Richard Cox: Sure.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah and so it allows, you know, more locals to get in. I'm a local. I feel the same way about certain restaurants, I used to not have to make reservations at like Bull and Beggar, I could just walk in whenever. Now I'm like, "Oh, I have to like make a reservation, okay. Alright." You're super happy for them, like that's great. But then there's more people that live here than did six years ago, 10 years ago. So there's that. It's not just all tourist, 00:22:00it's certainly just the population's increased. So it's just been fascinating to be part of city that's developing. I've only ever lived in already established cities that obviously experienced change within them. But to see a city really develop and grow has been ... And to be a part of that has been really interesting.

Richard Cox: Awesome. So why Burial?

Jessica Reiser: The short boring answer is that it was just a brainstorm session and it sounded really catchy. And this was probably like a year before we moved, I would say. So we were like, "Okay, Burial Beer Co." It sounds really cool, we could do a lot with it but what does that mean to us, you know? Like we certainly want to be attached to a brand that didn't speak to like our ethos and have something inspirational to guide us for potentially the life of the business, right?

Jessica Reiser: We lived in New Orleans, Doug and I, and so something that city 00:23:00really like embodies is like the celebratory nature of life. So to point where there's jazz funerals. So when somebody dies, you take to the streets with photos of them and brass instruments and drinks and music and celebrate that person's life. That was such an inspirational concept as far as like ... Okay, death is part of life. You can't have one without the other sort of thing. And then being able to kind of see that intrinsic cycle and balance and so many other facets too in brewing, in harvest and gardening and just life in general, right?

Jessica Reiser: There's always a balance, you can't kind of have joy without the suffering, and so on and so forth. That really spoke to us as far as that concept ... And so we're not what I would consider like a themed brewery. So our message is not all about destruction and despair and death and morbidity-

Richard Cox: Grim Reapers?

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, Grim Reapers and vampires and zombies. You know? We had children and I was like, I definitely want this to be like an approachable brand, certainly for the space and inviting everybody to come. No matter why your interest. I certainly don't look heavy metal and goth. And you know, so it's been a really amazing journey with that name and the brand because I've come to realize that it has organically also grown and it kind of leaves it like open ended. I mean we have a mural of Tom Selleck and Sloth. And it works. Because it is just about celebration and drawing inspiration from anything and everything and seeing that, you know, you don't have to take yourself too seriously, number one. That's what that mural is all about.

Jessica Reiser: You know, just really paying ohmage to the things that let us 00:25:00celebrate life. Whether that's life and history and music and the Sloth and Tom Selleck and just creating stories around those inspirations has been great. I mean it's allowed us to continue to evolve our brand and not feel like we're kind of married to any one concept, if you well.

Richard Cox: So it's not like you all have like a theme then. But do you have what you would call a mission or philosophy? You've talked about a little bit with the life and you know, that's sort of thing.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, you know, that is something that is currently changing, I would say. Not in any crazy significant way. But you know, as any business, whether you're in the technological industry or the health industry. You know, we are a business at the end of the day, as fun as craft beer is. And so certainly as we're seen a lot of growth. And we just opened our Raleigh 00:26:00location, we're about to open Forestry Camp and just what we talked about, the consumer base changing because Asheville has changed.

Jessica Reiser: And all these factors, right? That contribute to the evolution of a business and a brand and so reassessing those values every so often, whatever that means for your business, is certainly important and valuable in just being sustainable in your growth. You know, so we are kind of in that moment of like, trying to see like where we were, where we are and where we see ourselves going so I don't have the exact answer for you. You'll have to stay tuned.

Richard Cox: That's a great answer! Wait and see! Yeah. So when you were opening Burial, I guess this is sort of a location questions. Were there any challenges you faced when opening the brewery?

Jessica Reiser: Oh yeah, we were-

Richard Cox: Plumbing for example.

Jessica Reiser: Plumbing. I mean, we were definitely naïve and I felt not just 00:27:00with opening here but some of the challenges we faced with the expansion of production. So the scaling up and what that's meant was also very challenging. So with regards to opening this place, just the logistical issues that come along with getting a city permit. You know, so you walk into a space and you're like, "Oh I really like this space, it has brick walls and it has a lot of character. I'm gonna rent this." And then you bring in an architect who's like, "Okay, cool so now we're gonna have to do like all of these things in order to make it ADA compliant. And to make it building compliant, and zoning and fire." And those were some basic logistical things we hadn't necessary contemplated all that much.

Jessica Reiser: We were lucky, I mean, it worked out and we were open within six months of renting this space and we were able to make it work financially. But I 00:28:00would definitely say we were like, "Oh, okay?"

Richard Cox: It's pretty amazing. Fast turnaround. Considering like the plumbing sorts of things that go one. And yeah, the amount of equipment.

Jessica Reiser: I mean we did ... It was bare minimum. The equipment was bare minimum, it was small. Once you start getting into bigger brewing equipment than it gets very much more challenging but -

Richard Cox: And do you think by the time you opened, I asked this because it's something that's come up before. By the time you were opening in 2013, Asheville sort of had a grasp of the needs of a brewery, by that point?

Jessica Reiser: I think so. Yeah, I mean the architect that we worked with. He definitely had experience with other breweries in the area already. So yes, I think so. I'd say they were probably that much more well-versed in breweries at this point. But yeah, it definitely felt like ... I didn't feel like we were like teaching them in any capacity. So that was great. You know, we were 00:29:00challenged with just the size, like the running out of beer ... You know Tim was brewing and it takes basically the same amount of time to brew a one barrel batch of beer than it does to brew a 10 barrel batch of beer. Which is you know, at some point we realized just for his sanity, if nothing else, that moving to a 10 barrel brew house, would fill the taps and you know, keep him brewing ... Still long days but less often.

Jessica Reiser: So that was definitely a turning point and then yeah, with the expansion production wise. I mean that was like anytime we needed to bump staff up, in a significant way that comes with challenges and expectations. Whenever you're doing something that's brand new to your business and to you as a owner, you know. You certainly try to anticipate as much as you can and then the rest 00:30:00is ... You just gotta take it as it comes and that is a very great life lesson in itself, certainly.

Richard Cox: So, if someone were to walk in the front doors and actually didn't know anything about Burial. How would you think someone would describe Burial to them? Yourself or your barkeep or? What is this place?

Jessica Reiser: At this point ... So they don't know anything about Burial.

Richard Cox: They have no clue.

Jessica Reiser: How would we describe it to them? Okay. Well I would say that we are a art focused brand, driven by a variety of inspirations. Whether it's music or art or culinary ingredients and that we're trying to focus on beers that are both approachable but, also keep in mind that we definitely have an experimental bone. So trying to kind of walk that line as a ... We're pushing the envelope 00:31:00but we're also like ensuring that it's not inclusive or that it is inclusive. So that we can say like, "Hey, like here's this beer lemon grass and cardamon but you know, it's quaffable and approachable."

Jessica Reiser: So that is what we are looking toward as far as our beer lineup goes. We certainly love to brew American, hoppy American beers. I mean, the double IPAs, IPAs, the hoppy lager's are definitely kind of at the forefront of our portfolio. And you know, with some of the mixed culture and like the more experimental beers as well. So yeah.

Richard Cox: Great. Lets talk about you for a moment. For a co-owner, co-founder, how would you describe your ... This is always a trick question, your average week.

Jessica Reiser: My average week? Well, I'll give you a little bit of back story 00:32:00so Doug and Tim. So Tim is the head brewer. I mean, his role has started to evolve with Forestry Camp opening 'cause he's taking on that project, which is a whole thing. And so Tim and Doug have really been at the forefront of the visionary and the producers of like the recipes and as far as the brand goes. So throughout the years I have filled in a lot of the administrative, integrative roles.

Jessica Reiser: So back in that day, that was everything because you know, we didn't have any employee's-

Richard Cox: Just the three of you.

Jessica Reiser: And at that time, Doug was running another company also. So he did that for several years, so he was stretched a little thin. And so over the years, I've shed some roles to people that we've hired and then picked them back up because of staff transitions. So currently-

Richard Cox: This week.

Jessica Reiser: This week. So I focus a lot on tap room events and provide a lot of support to off site events right now. And most recently just passed off HR, I still do a lot of the compliance work and oversee just kind of like the financial operations.

Jessica Reiser: So an average week is, you know, pushing a lot of these event conversations forward, ensuring that they're being branded with our art director. Working with our media coordinator on the promotion of those events and then it's ... I spend like Monday's doing TTB compliance and NC ABC compliance and then Georgia and New York 'cause those are our two main distributed states. So I just make sure that everything is registered whether or not we send it.

Jessica Reiser: And then it's working with ... I do a lot of community 00:34:00partnership work. LEAF and The Asheville Symphony and we're gonna be working with the art museum on the reopening this spring, with a collaboration and some events and stuff. So there's a lot of that that goes on.

Richard Cox: So you do a lot of ... I think you actually answered on of my follow up questions, which was about community engagement and outreach and it seems like you're well embedded in the local community.

Jessica Reiser: We are, and you know that's something I would say for a couple of years. Initially we were just because of our size and accessibility. And then I would say that we probably took a backseat for a little bit, just for probably for self-preservation reasons of expanding to the second location and the increasing in production and staffing and all of that. And it's been the past year I would say that we've been able to really reengage with some community non-profits and really start to look towards some longterm partnerships.

Richard Cox: And you mentioned outside of the state distribution. Is it just 00:35:00those two states?

Jessica Reiser: So we regularly distribute to Georgia and New York and then we will do, we reference like event based drops. And so for example, we're heading to New Orleans next month. I guess it's in a couple weeks to do a bunch of events. So we'll send a couple pallets with maybe some extra cans to support that drop, kind of depends on the market and stuff. You know we partner with LEAF International every year, so it's an Asheville based non-profit and they set up programs around the world, mainly third world developing countries. They did for the first time, a domestic program which was New Orleans and the idea is to kind of do a cross-cultural exchange of Asheville students mainly, but the Asheville community with the culture of the country or area. So they were like, we want to do a New Orleans one, because that's such a vibrant culture and so different and so unique than the rest of America.

Jessica Reiser: Especially with like, they're very focused on arts and music. So it made sense. So they approached us, know our connection and so we were basically like "Yes, we want to sponsor this program but we're not really ones to like write a cheque and have our logo in an advertisement or like on a website." We're like, "That's great and all but like, we want to like really make this a meaningful thing for us." 'Cause it's something that really inspires us. So every year, this was our third year, we partner with LEAF and Big Chief Shaka Zulu who is one of the big chiefs down in New Orleans, the Mardi Gras Indians, there's ... I want to say 30 something tribes, but don't hold me to that.

Jessica Reiser: We work with LEAF and Big Chief Shaka on a collaboration release every year. So the first year was with Great Raft Brewing, they're in Shreveport, Louisiana. Last year was with Creature Comforts in Athens. And this year was with Other Half in Brooklyn. And so 100 percent of all of the profits from that beer go to promote the New Orleans program as well as to the feather fund, which basically subsidizes the materials, specifically the feathers, that 00:37:00are used by the Mardi Gras Indians to create these incredibly ... They're art pieces. They're these elaborate suits that they work, every single day on for the entire year to then mask ... That's what they call it, on St. Joseph's Day.

Jessica Reiser: So we go down every year to kind of celebrate the release of the collaboration and parade with them. I mean, we're not masking of course, but we're there to hang out with the Mardi Gras Indians. Yeah, and so this will be the second year we've brought our kids and you know, it's a really special thing for them to experience.

Richard Cox: I feel like even so far in this that you all have New Orleans ... Or at least you have New Orleans in your blood a lot.

Jessica Reiser: It feels like it! I mean we're coming up on my Mardi Gras this week and so we do a three day Mardi Gras celebration here. Yeah, it definitely keeps us, a good reminder, again, of that celebratory nature and kind of what inspires us.

Richard Cox: That's amazing. So you're already touched on expansions. So you 00:38:00know, you have two additional locations, you're working on in addition to the Taproom and kitchen here?

Jessica Reiser: Correct, yeah.

Richard Cox: So you want to talk about those a little bit?

Jessica Reiser: Sure, so this South Slope Taproom is staying as it is. That's always a question that we get. "Oh so it's moving?" So this is it, this is as I discussed, like has grown over the past six years and in like an organic way. I mean we're super grateful for. I love this place, it's like a home away from home. But we opened in Raleigh in early January and it's about an 800 square foot space right now. The idea was like ... Hey, we have so much support from the people of Raleigh, we've been distributing there over the past three years or so. But they're not ... It's far, it's an eight hour round trip. And you know, how can we get them, these folks who are so supportive there, these Taproom only beers? As well as start to showcase our brand a little bit.

Jessica Reiser: So we open in early January and I think the consensus is that everybody wants it to be bigger. Which for us, we were like, we're providing a different experience.

Richard Cox: Sure.

Jessica Reiser: And again, that comes with back what we were chatting about earlier is, you know, when we opened this place. If I look back on the video that my brother-in-law took walking from the front door to back here. I mean, I was like, "I can't believe people wanted to hang out here!" It was, I guess, charming but you know, barren. Barely had any art on the walls. It was much smaller, it definitely did not have the amenities that it has now, bathrooms.

Jessica Reiser: For example. You know and the space has evolved and so you know, with Raleigh, it was this challenge of, okay, well we can't just like recreate the Taproom in Asheville somewhere else. Number one, it wasn't that easy, you 00:40:00know. Like it took years to get to what this place is today. But also like, how special to allow a community of people to participate in the evolution of a space. I mean for example, the cooler here is covered in stickers. Like that is not what it looked like when we first opened. So you seen that interactive participation. The velvet Selleck, like that was given to us by somebody. And so people were like, "Where's Tom Selleck?" Well Raleigh doesn't get a Tom Selleck. Like Raleigh needs to bring us something, you know.

Jessica Reiser: Then that will inspire us and connect us to that community, you know. And so the difference of the expectation when we first opened, there being none. And so, the barren walls, barren cooler, ramp, one bathroom. Was like, it was okay for everybody 'cause they didn't have anything else to base what Burial was off of. And so six years later we opened this new space and this experience 00:41:00and this Taproom is such a amazing space and people have had such great experiences here which we are just humbled by. But then, I think potentially applying it to a second scenario.

Jessica Reiser: We certainly take feedback seriously and we are planning to expand the space to about ... I said, like just under ... Right around 2000 square feet. So like, the people of Raleigh have spoken, it works out that there's an opportunity for us to expand that space and so, we want to certainly create an environment that they can come and support and feel comfortable and hopefully bring us pieces of art, you know, to hang out the walls. And really start to help us organically grow that space also.

Richard Cox: Two things, that sounds interesting. First of all, it's impressive you've only been open there a month and a half and you're talking about expansion already.

Jessica Reiser: Well the opportunity arose and it's one of those things that 00:42:00I've realized personally for my own ethos is like, there's silver linings. Everything is supposed to happen exactly. I've started to trust in the process of how life unfolds and it's not always obvious and sometimes it's hurtful but in the end, it's one opportunity leading to the next, to the next. And so, I think that, you know, it wasn't like the wrong decision to open with 800 square feet but if there's kind of like the next step. Like there's a next step that's being presented and it just so happens to align with the feedback that we're receiving and so it just ... It makes sense and like the most serendipitous way.

Richard Cox: Yeah, it really does. And I'm also getting from you the idea of both in talking about this place but just what you're saying about Raleigh is that, the idea of a sense of place and where you are is really important to Burial and what you're doing.

Jessica Reiser: And I think sometimes it's hard to articulate those things until 00:43:00you ... Something comes to fruition and you receive that feedback. And you see what's really important to the people who come to support you and it is that sense of place that we have developed at this location over the years. And so, that's great, you know? So when presented with an opportunity to try to just provide them with what they're asking for.

Richard Cox: And as you know, sort of like what you're saying. Is dropping Asheville in the middle of Raleigh really the thing to do? Or is it bring that unique Raleigh feel to it?

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, exactly. And so it's certainly like an opportunity to think about all of those factors. A lot of which are out of your control.

Richard Cox: Right. So what about Forestry Camp?

Jessica Reiser: Yes, so Forestry Camp. We purchased that property just over three years ago. And it's a super unique one, we feel really fortunate that we 00:44:00found it. It was built in the early 1900's and it was owned by the US Government for many, many decades. And during the Great Depression, it was utilized by FDR for one of his many programs, a New Deal program. So the civilian conservation corp. Lots of properties around the country served as a place for men to come to live and work for a certain time period during The Great Depression to help build The National Parks Programs, which is something he was obviously very passionate about.

Jessica Reiser: And so for this particular property, it was men living and working and going out to the Blueridge Parkway to develop that. They would get paid by the government and they would send that stipend back to their families who were suffering from The Great Depression. So once The Great Depression ended, that property still own by the government, but went dormant. And they 00:45:00were not investing money into keeping it up to code, for lack of a better word. So you know certainly, the building started to become a little dilapidated, like a tree fell on one. All that fun staff. And so, a church purchased it from the government, either in the 90's or early 2000's and they had a vision to create like a retreat of sorts. It's two acres and it has six building's on it.

Jessica Reiser: That vision for reasons I'm not privy to, did not come to fruition and so we bought it from the church three years ago. So I said, six buildings and so you're kind of like, "Why do you need six buildings?" One of them is our production facility, so we started brewing there October 2016. We have a lab over there and then we have our sour barrel is over there and it stores about 250 to 300 barrels. Then we have the less sexy buildings, which are 00:46:00our two storage buildings and then an office building. And so the last piece of the puzzle is this two story bar and restaurant. And so it's call Forestry Camp and it's not a Burial Taproom. We'll have 24 taps, about four will be Burial beer at any given time. We will have Burial beer for sale to-go and to just to consume on premise, like in cans and bottles.

Jessica Reiser: It's really focused on makers. As Doug, Tim and I continue to own this business and draw inspiration and have met people cross industry as well as in our own in our own industry, like this is an opportunity for us to tell their story. So you know, 20 guest taps, beer mainly. But you know, probably a cider on tap, a soda, we're gonna have our whole coffee program to focus on coffee roaster's around the country and world. We're gonna have 75 to 100 bottle wine list, really doing some work on making connections with a lot of 00:47:00those wine makers, which is really fun for us. We went to France and Spain this past year.

Richard Cox: Work trip!

Jessica Reiser: Yeah! It was also for festivals and stuff for Burial but yes, it was like a wine element to it. You know, focusing on certainly the culinary aspect. It's gonna be like a full kitchen situation and Brain Canipelli who's the owner of Cucina 24 is heading up as Executive Chef there. And so focusing on those types of makers of you know, bakers and chefs and farmers and even musician's. We're partnering with Harvest Records here in town, so we will only play vinyl and have a partnership with them where they help us curate those records and we'll probably have them come and do like a DJ set once a week. It's just a really amazing place, again, to start telling other people's stories.

Jessica Reiser: That is just really inspirational to us. And it was one of those 00:48:00situations where we're also like, when we made the decision to go in a different direction, it was like, we have this place which clearly people feel very connected to. And so this second location is just a mile and a half down the road. Do we want to have another Burial spot a mile and a half away? You know, and not to say that wouldn't have worked out and been great but you know, kind of, for us, it was like, what is gonna continue to inspire the brand and inspire us and give us more outlets for creativity and brand development and partnerships along the way and stuff. We're hoping any month now. We feel a little behind schedule. Probably right now it's looking like spring, but you know, that means anywhere from like March to June.

Richard Cox: Sure! There's always something in construction.

Jessica Reiser: It really is.

Richard Cox: Talking about this place. Always something.

Jessica Reiser: Always something. But we're super excited. We just put the sign 00:49:00up and covered it immediately but-

Richard Cox: But it's there!

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, it's there. We had a really cool sign made here in Asheville that is very reminiscent to the Yosemite National Park sign. So we're definitely paying homage to what the history of this property was. These buildings are beautiful, I mean they're all pine, 100 years old. They have like US stamped into a lot of the posts and stuff. And so it's just a really cool historical-

Richard Cox: Yeah, a sense of place and maintain the integrity of what it is.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, like we repainted all the building's back white and just definitely like a lot of ... The church made some changes, where they took out garage doors and put stucco walls up. And so we're, not only are garage doors super friendly for breweries for logistical reasons but it is also what the buildings used to look like. 'Cause it was a manufacturing place essentially, a workplace.

Richard Cox: It sounds exciting.

Jessica Reiser: It is really exciting. It's gonna be very surreal I think, like 00:50:00the day that it opens. And we'll be like, "It's happening! Oh my god!"

Richard Cox: That's gonna be awesome. So lets switch gears. Your Master's degree is Art Administration, is that right?

Jessica Reiser: Yes.

Richard Cox: So Burial is very unique branding in both the art work and even the names of the beers. I'm assuming you were pretty deeply involved in the visual branding and I think you even mentioned that. So can you talk a little about that.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, absolutely. So in college is where ... I was a junior, so it was a little late to official major in art history, just from like how ever many classes you needed. So I was already majoring in history and I became very enthralled with Renaissance art. I started my love affair, for lack of a better word, with Renaissance art when I was a junior in college. And at that point it was a little to late to official major in art history, I'd already started down the history path, which obviously is not too far off. But just from my travels 00:51:00with my dad in particular, I just started to really fall in love with northern Renaissance art.

Jessica Reiser: My hope was to get a PhD in Renaissance art and go onto be a curator of a museum somewhere but such is life. And I applied to very few programs. You know, Doug and I had met already and he's a year older and he had already moved to New Orleans so I was kind of like ... I was like, I'm moving to New Orleans. So whether or not I get into this program, so maybe that shows love over my career. So I applied to Tulane and did not get in, and so I was like, okay, well like that's a bummer but what is available to me, like opportunity wise, right? So I looked into arts administration which is more of the ... It's the administrative side of running, whether it's like a theater or a museum, just you know, any kind of art non-profit basically.

Jessica Reiser: So UNO, University of New Orleans, had at the time one of ten Art Administration Master's programs. I'm sure there are more today. So I was like, cool that worked out. Boyfriends in New Orleans, graduate program is in New Orleans, and so went through that and was able to take some art history courses which kind of satiated that like aspect that I was hoping for. And you know, through that I certainly gained different skills doing art administration than I would have if I had gone through the curatorial program. My life would probably be incredibly different. I'm sure if I dedicated five years to a PhD, I would probably not be owning a brewery right now.

Jessica Reiser: Anyway, you know, when we did open Burial, I think for all three of us, it still does but certainly in the beginning felt like an opportunity to be creative. You know, I would say that Doug has mainly taken over branding. So 00:53:00I certainly want to give him hats off. And he works closely with our art director and our illustrator on those visions. When we started bottling, that's when kind of that northern Renaissance or Renaissance in general art ... Love of that came into play. I will say that I introduced Doug to Renaissance and northern Renaissance art and all of that. So we have like the Gardens of the Delights, is one. Harmonious Bouche, who is probably my favorite. Him and Jan van Eyke and so certainly, it's just history in general and again that like what once was is incredibly inspirational to us. To kind of bring that back and put a Burial spin on it.

Jessica Reiser: So working with our illustrator David Paul Seymour to be like, this is the painting that's inspiring us, what is your take on it. 'Cause he is 00:54:00so entwined with our brand and you know, with stuff that isn't Renaissance art inspired. I mean, at this point, he's done such a great job of bringing beers to life. When you think about our core beers or surf wax or shadow clock, I mean there are like really heavy branding imagery associated with that. And so definitely the three of us form the beginning were like, we want to be an illustrated brand. Like that is really important to us. 'Cause for us it was how we were able to unfold and tell the story of these beers which is through the visual.

Jessica Reiser: Certainly the Renaissance art was huge when we first started bottle. And were like this is a great opportunity where it's usually Belgian, mixed-culture beers that it made sense to take inspiration form that part of the world, from an art standpoint and so I was able to kind of marry the two there for awhile.

Richard Cox: How about the ... I can talk about northern Renaissance all day honestly.

Jessica Reiser: Love it so much.

Richard Cox: How about the naming of the beers because your names are also really intriguing.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, the naming of the beers obviously the northern Renaissance ones are after paintings, which also just felt super on brand. Like the Triumph of Death and Fall of the Rebel Angels. That I think is where our brand took a turn from the naming convention. So it used to be all tools back in the day. Let me think of any that we still can. So Skillet was one of the original ones, on tap. Sorry, I'm looking around at our artwork. So Bolo, bolo is a knife. And so you know, initially it was like Scythe, Pitchfork-

Richard Cox: There was a Saw wasn't there?

Jessica Reiser: We had Blade Saw and Hatchet. You know, Hacksaw, a lot of those come to find out are already used by wineries-

Richard Cox: Agriculture!

Jessica Reiser: Yeah! But it was very tool inspired and Tim and I were just reminiscing yesterday about like, "Oh my god, do you remember sitting and meeting about new beer names and like going through these tool websites and 00:56:00archives to try and like come up with a new tool?" At some point we were like, "I think we've run out of tools." That makes sense, I mean like potato hoe, I mean ... So at some point we definitely felt that theme hitting a wall, right? And also like losing inspiration for us. If we have to spend three hours coming up with a beer name, I mean, not even just from an efficiency standpoint but like, are you feeling really inspired anymore?

Jessica Reiser: And so, I think with the addition of the northern Renaissance art work, all of a sudden the names became a little longer, right? From Skillet and Bolo to Triumph of Death, Fall of the Rebel Angels et cetera. But then it started ... it made us realize that we don't have to name all of our beers after tools to be on brand. And it was that evolution of the brand. And so a lot of times, Doug and Tim do name the beers. I can't take credit for that either. I do 00:57:00limit them to nine syllables. 'Cause I'm like, after nine, it's a sentence, no longer a name of a beer. And so, and they come up with them. They draw inspiration certainly from art. I mean whenever we were at museums and stuff, we'll like take notes on different art pieces and stuff. But a lot of times, they're just creative and it just comes-

Richard Cox: Doing their thing.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, which is amazing. But yeah.

Richard Cox: And amazingly unique.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, absolutely.

Richard Cox: It all plays well together with the place and everything else. So even though you touched on it, I have to ask about the awesome Tom Selleck and Sloth mural.

Jessica Reiser: Yes, oh yeah, of course. So Tom Selleck and Sloth, I'll do into more detail. So Sloth, we have his high school graduation picture, if you will. It's like an illustrated drawing of ... Not his real one, of him and then like back in the 80's and 90's had like the laser beams behind you. And so Doug and I 00:58:00found that at this pizza place in Cleveland. So Doug is from Ohio, and it was right before we opened and we're like, "This, we have to hang this at Burial." So that was one of the first things we hung. And so it just became kind of and icon, you could tell people would like, "Oh my go, it's Sloth." And then they'd take a picture with it. And then Tom Selleck was given to us by a friend but it did not belong to him it belonged to one of his friends. So it was like on loan for awhile.

Jessica Reiser: So it was on loan and we were just like, "Okay, people also love this Tom Selleck, potentially more than Sloth, like what are we gonna do when the velvet Selleck leaves?" And so when we bought this property, we were like, okay, there's this big white wall, we should do a mural, and initially we were coming up with all kinds of like contrived ideas. Like barrels and hops and la la la. And then we were like, what about Tom Selleck and Sloth? Like Tom Selleck is leaving us, so like we need to memorialize him somehow. And I remember Gus 00:59:00Cuddy, who's a local muralist, he did the mural for us and he was just like, "This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever done." And I was like, "Really?" And he was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "I know, I'm just kidding."

Jessica Reiser: And so, the person who owns velvet Selleck came to our Taproom to visit our mutual friend and saw the mural, saw a couple other Tom Selleck things that had been given to us over time and was like, "Ok clearly you guys should keep this velvet Selleck" and so we gave him like free beer and a hoodie or something and called it a day. And so now we just look like we're obsessed with Tom Selleck, which maybe we are a little bit, but it's really just an ode to not taking yourself too seriously. The fat that it works for our brand, it's storytelling and someday maybe Tom Selleck will come here.

Richard Cox: Well it's an amazing thing because like you say, it works with your brand especially after hearing you talk about it. I can imagine the people that 01:00:00are familiar with your brand from the cans for example.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, I know. It's amazing.

Richard Cox: This iconic South Slope mural of Sloth now.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, they're just kind of like, "really?" And then we kind of hope that too! Like people are like, what? And what's amazing is that people think it's Burt Reynolds a lot. It's like 50-50 people think it's Burt Reynolds and so when Burt Reynolds died last year, we got a lot of whether it was hit on social media. Even like personal friends of ours, are like, "Oh my gosh, what are you gonna do about that mural now?" I'm like, "It's not Burt Reynolds, guys!"

Richard Cox: That's great.

Jessica Reiser: I think Tom Selleck had to go on the internet and say like, "Okay, I'm still alive!"

Richard Cox: It's the mustache.

Jessica Reiser: It is the mustache and they're about the same age, you know. I get it, certainly. But sometimes people will be like, "Oh looks it's Burt Reynolds and Chunk." And you're like, no 'cause Chunk is the other-

Richard Cox: How could you even get it that wrong?

Jessica Reiser: So we've always joked that we should do a Burt Reynolds and Chunk mural at Forestry Camp.

Richard Cox: It's sort of the theme. That's awesome. So you know you've already 01:01:00talked about Burial sort of at a cross roads in a way. And how do you predict going forward? But I have a question about, are there any ways you see Burial going in the future? Forestry Camp? The Exhibit's expanding, is there anything else you can think about that would be like, you want to mention about the future of Burial? That's a lot!

Jessica Reiser: There's already so much.

Richard Cox: You don't want to think about anything else right now.

Jessica Reiser: You know, I have definitely, again like, come to ... I've learned a lot of the past six years, just like sheerly by running this business as far as like who I am as a person. And I've realized like I've talked about the planning portion of things. Like you plan enough to like anticipate and ensure that you are being thoughtful and intentional but then a lot of it is so much out of your control and so I think that, we are gonna spend 2019 certainly seeing how Raleigh evolves. Seeing Forestry Camp come to fruition and seeing how 01:02:00people interact with that space and the mission and dynamic there.

Jessica Reiser: Then also we are excited to start to really kind of look internally about some lateral growth and what that can look like for staff and really putting some structures in place internally that perhaps we haven't had enough breathing room to do to date. I think that we've started so small and we look back and we see a lot of things about our culture, both the brand and just our internal culture that are kind of related to that. And so it's an interesting dynamic to kind of be like ... Okay, we're so different than we used to be but how can we still honor and integrate that part of us because it's so important to the story but it is no longer who we are. And so it is just an interesting identity piece that we as individual's all experience throughout 01:03:00life and a business is very much like a living breathing thing as well.

Richard Cox: Alright, so we always close out with three questions that I think are interesting and fun but always cause people trouble.

Richard Cox: So what would you say is your favorite beer from a North Carolina Brewery other than The Burial?

Jessica Reiser: Okay. Interesting. Let me think. I would say that Fonta is certainly a brewery that we have known for a long time. They opened about the same time as us and obviously similar parallels with the trajectory of the sizes and stuff like that. I mean he is, Todd, is a very inspirational brewer and certainly I would say like his mixed culture and sour beers are, in this day and age, of what ... sometimes sour beer is a little too flavorful, too special for 01:04:00me. Where I feel like his have remained very approachable. Even the heavily fruited ones, still have an elegance to them that I really appreciate.

Richard Cox: Amazing. And not what is your favorite but what would you say, if Burial had a flagship or signature, what would it be?

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, so that's an interesting question 'cause three years ago I would have been like, we don't have any. And again the evolution of our brand and consumer demands-

Richard Cox: People tell you.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, exactly. I think so much is kind of not ... You want to plan for and then you want to kind of see how things evolved. I mean I would say like Surf Wax or Skillet. I mean Skillet only gets brewed once a year. But I would say Surf Wax being a flagship in a sense that it's a beer that people definitely associate with Burial and that it's available frequently. Skillet though being something that just has a lot of brand equity for lack of a layman's term. But you know, it was on when we first opened, it's created an 01:05:00experience for people with the donuts-

Richard Cox: Griddle.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, and Griddle has spawned from there. And you know, we've done so many fun things with the Skillet brand over the years. Skillet Six Ways during beer week and our partnership with Vortex. And you know, so I think that that certainly lives and breathes The Burial brand, certainly but as far again as as flagship being kind of one that's brewed often, it doesn't necessarily fit into that bucket.

Richard Cox: Then the hard one is what is your favorite Burial beer?

Jessica Reiser: Oh goodness. So we have brewed so many. I would have to say, so I'm just gonna like default to like as of late.

Richard Cox: That's perfectly normal.

Jessica Reiser: Okay, so our Virtue of Patience, the bourbon barrel aged barley wine, it was amazing. And barley wines traditionally for me are not a style that I've ever really gravitated towards and this one was just so smooth and just 01:06:00like well-rounded and the vanilla in it was just really lovely. And it came out at like the perfect time of the year.

Richard Cox: Great. Awesome.

Jessica Reiser: I'd have to go with that.

Richard Cox: That's all I have.

Jessica Reiser: Yeah? Great.

Richard Cox: Is there anything you want to add or close with?

Jessica Reiser: No, I'm good yeah.

Richard Cox: Thank you so much for your time!

Jessica Reiser: Yeah, thank you!