Oral history interview with Meredith Gotz, 2019

Richard Cox: Okay. If we can start, can you please say and spell your name?

Meredith Gotz: Meredith Gotz. M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H G-O-T-Z.

Richard Cox: And today is Friday, November 22nd, 2019 and we are at an Angry Troll brewing, in Elkin, North Carolina. I'm Richard Cox, talking today with Meredith Gotz, head brewer, as a part of the Well Crafted NC project. So to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Meredith Gotz: Yes, I've been a professional brewer for almost seven years now.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Came up from Florida where I started on a mobile canning company, worked for a small local brewery and after about two years of being in Miami, thought I could come up to North Carolina, which is more craft centric.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And started at Foothills, where I brewed and I was in the cellar 00:01:00in lab for three years and finally took a really nice position over here at Angry Troll in March of 2019.

Richard Cox: And from there you became the head brewer here. How did that happen?

Meredith Gotz: Yes. So I was hired on as an assistant brewer and I was told immediately that I was overqualified, but it gave me a chance to really actually work for a brewery that was small and local and 100 percent into crafting beer for the people that came through their business to drink it. So it really fell into my lap. It was something that I wanted to do and it was a business form that I was looking at working on, so I just tried to take all of my best brewing practices that I learned at my other breweries and apply them to here and increase the quality and consistency of our product, which I think we're getting there.

Richard Cox: Absolutely. How would you... Let's back up. How would you describe your location and space, because you have a restaurant and you have the brewery?

Meredith Gotz: Yes, we're in a really interesting building that is split into multiple uses. If you start at the top, the first floor as you enter, it's a hundred plus year old building that was originally a tobacco drying warehouse, then turned into a cash and carry, but on the first floor we have a 60 person restaurant. It's sports bar theme. We have a brick oven pizza, so you can get fresh pizzas, wings, burgers. Our pretzels are amazing. We do beer cheese. We have a game room which is just an additional space that we use for restaurant overflow as well as it's a great area to host trivia. If you continue towards the back of the building, we have a beautiful open space with exposed beams that we use for weddings and corporate events, and when you come down the staircase 00:03:00is our six tap, tap room, which specifically sells only Angry Troll beer. We have relatively large tap room downstairs.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: We also have offices in the back that we rent to people for computer businesses and a courtyard outside that we use for outdoor weddings and yoga.

Richard Cox: So multipurpose?

Meredith Gotz: It is a lot of multi-purposing.

Richard Cox: What's your brew house like?

Meredith Gotz: My brew house right now is a Colorado pro brewery system. It is a two barrel, essentially a home brew, brew in a bag.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: I only brew two barrels of beer at a time. Lot different from 50 barrels of beer at a time.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: I have six, two barrel fermenters. They're unit tanks, so I'm fermenting and carbing my beer from that tank. It never moves to a bright tank.

Richard Cox: Oh, okay.

Meredith Gotz: And essentially right now I'm only getting about nine to ten sixtels out of each one of those tanks. We're having a hard time keeping up with the demand for the restaurant and the small sales that we do outside, so we're actually about to lease a seven barrel, fully automatic Deutch system over in Wilkesboro.

Richard Cox: Oh, wow.

Meredith Gotz: To test out some of our mainstream beers and see how fast we can sell those out in the mainstream public.

Richard Cox: So you'd be actually brewing those beers over in Wilkesboro then?

Meredith Gotz: I'll be brewing those beers in Wilkesboro and it'll be solely our brewery. It's not, it's basically going to be our little production facility.

Richard Cox: Oh, cool.

Meredith Gotz: Yes, but it'll allow us then to use all of these smaller tanks for experimental one-offs, as well as something that I've been wanting to do for a minute now is with the weddings, to have custom designed wedding beers as well as corporate event beers.

Richard Cox: Oh.

Meredith Gotz: So I can work with brides, if they are getting married several 00:05:00months out, design a recipe specifically for their wedding and have it served.

Richard Cox: That's kind of great.

Meredith Gotz: Yes, I'm super excited.

Richard Cox: I can tell. Yes, that's great. So how would you describe Angry Troll to people unaware of the brewery?

Meredith Gotz: Angry Troll is one of those places where you can come have a relaxing meal with your friends and family and then come down to the tap room, play a game of pool, sit at the tables, have a couple of drinks, and it's in a part of Elkin, We're in downtown. Elkin was pretty much brought up, I believe, from the Chatham manufacturing plant and that was the lifeblood of this town, so when the plant shut down, downtown shut down.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: In the last, I'd say, probably decade, there's been a lot of interest in turning around and revitalizing downtown and you can really see that 00:06:00now. If you walk down the street, there's a lot of really interesting shops coming in, a lot of local artists. We have an all outdoor fishing store, which is great because Elkin is also just 15, 20 minutes from Stone Mountain, so we have awesome trout fishing. There's three major trails that run through North Carolina that actually run directly through Elkin, and even our downtown. The mountain-to-sea trail goes right in front of our store.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So if you love the outdoors, if you want to be able to come out and have a beer and then get out into nature and go on a hike, this is the perfect place for you.

Richard Cox: Awesome. And so I think you're touching on this already, but what role do you feel Angry Troll has been playing in these changes in Elkin?

Meredith Gotz: I think with Elkin, it's showing people that like, "Hey. Downtown is being revitalized and we want to offer our space to the community to use for fundraisers, as a place to come on the weekends, or even week nights to enjoy 00:07:00food and local beverages that are produced in your town," and give the town something to be proud of and we only have two breweries in this town. To get to Mount Airy, it's 30 minutes.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: To get to Charlotte, it's an hour. To get to Winston, it's 45 minutes, and I don't want people to feel that they have to drive that far to get quality beer.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: I'd love to keep local money invested in local businesses, because when they spend their money here, they're then building up their downtown and just creating a better place for them to come and enjoy themselves. So trying to keep it as local as possible.

Richard Cox: Yes, absolutely and it sounds like you're also getting into what is the theme or mission of Angry Troll?

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: Which is giving back into...

Meredith Gotz: One of the things that I really... I didn't know about Elkin before I started looking at this job. I had to look it up on a map and be like, "Where is this place?" One of the things that I feel really attached to, and I'm a member of, is the Chatham Blanketeer, and this is the manufacturing plant that 00:08:00is literally not even half a mile down the street.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: It had been an operation over a hundred years and you're talking 40 year plus people worked at this plant.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And so many people constantly talk about how that plant was a part of their family. It was the best job they ever had. Chatham took care of his employees during the great depression when the banks were closed. He formed a credit system.

Richard Cox: [crosstalk 00:08:35] Oh, wow.

Meredith Gotz: Where all of his employees could get groceries, but they took care of the residents of Elkin, and I really feel like I would love to be able to shadow that and take care of the residents of Elkin, and give them a place that they're proud to say, "Hey, this reflects what Elkin is."

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: It's a relaxed atmosphere, we're going to welcome you in and you're going to enjoy yourself while you're here.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: So I'm trying to do that and I think now with this tap room and 00:09:00the overturning of the ban on dogs in tap rooms, one of the things that I now have is I partner with a dog bakery that's right up on this street and she makes homeopathic dog treats, so we have them for sale in here. I've also opened it up to a local dog, animal rescue group to do adoption in here. We have community yoga. The local trivia that we do, it's something that, I've seen 30, 40 people come in from town.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: And they come in every single week and it gives them something to do.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So I'm really getting to learn all the faces of Elkin, which is fun.

Richard Cox: Yes. So why Angry Troll? Other than we're underneath the...

Meredith Gotz: Angry Troll, as far as why brew here, or why?

Richard Cox: [crosstalk 00:09:57] Why is it?

Meredith Gotz: Why the name?

Richard Cox: [crosstalk 00:09:57] Why the name, yes.

Meredith Gotz: So I'd ask the same question, "Why Angry Troll?"

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: I was a little worried actually about the name and whether or not it would take off, but as soon as we went to a beer festival, everybody apparently loves it.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: But Angry Troll, the name came out from a historic footbridge that essentially connected Elkin to Jonesville.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: By crossing over the Yadkin river, and it was the only form of foot pathway for people to actually cross the Yadkin.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And that bridge actually ran right in front of our brewery, so back in 2007, I believe, they took down the foot bridge.

Richard Cox: Oh.

Meredith Gotz: So essentially removing the trolls bridge, which made him very grumpy.

Richard Cox: Sure.

Meredith Gotz: Hence Angry Troll.

Richard Cox: Angry Troll.

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: How do you see Angry Troll growing? You already talked about Wilkesboro and the space you're trying to use.

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: Is that your path forward that you're seeing right now?

Meredith Gotz: The more I look at the state of craft beer in, not only North Carolina, but I feel like the country.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: There's not a whole lot of shelf space out there.

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: People are really fighting for that and I think our town is unique. I think every town is unique, but when you only have one or two breweries, it really does become more of a destination. We're known for our wine.

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: You're in the Yadkin Valley wine district, essentially, right now, but to have a brewery in a small town that is really supportive of not only the arts, but also the outdoors, this is a destination. I would love to have our beer available at bars within a hundred mile radius of here, just so people know of us and then they want to make the trip out.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: But I honestly don't feel that having 30 different types of our 00:12:00beer in cans, on every shelf, everywhere that, easily accessible is somewhere that I want to go. I want to be able to meet the people that come into my brewery. I want to talk about our beers, talk about our history and I think the best way to do that is to keep it small. It allows me to use ingredients that larger breweries just can't afford to use. It allows me to test things through my restaurant, my tap room.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And Hey, if it's a great beer, it's going to sell quick. I'll brew it again, but I don't have to worry about making 60 gallons of it and then it's not selling, so now what do I do with it?

Richard Cox: Yes, and you've invested in it, into that level.

Meredith Gotz: [crosstalk 00:12:43] Absolutely. I'd rather stay small and be able to use as many local ingredients and the best ingredients that I can to produce my beer.

Richard Cox: What sort of local ingredients are you looking at?

Meredith Gotz: So right now trying to work on getting them to use local malt.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: But we have two beers, one of is our cinnamon honey porter, which 00:13:00is extremely popular. It's made with twelve pounds of local honey. The last batch that we did came from one of our owners next door neighbors, and we call it state road farms, but it's literally five minutes up the street from our brewery and then we also did a coffee stout, and that was made with about a pound and a half of anchor coffee beans.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Which is just locally roasted in Wilkesboro.

Richard Cox: Awesome. That's great.

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: So how would you describe your average week?

Meredith Gotz: I'm sorry, what did you say?

Richard Cox: Sorry, how would you describe your average week? If you can?

Meredith Gotz: Wow. My average week is really interesting, because now that I'm not just brewing, I'm in charge of everything beer-wise, I've been trying to do my schedule where my mornings are emails, phone calls, checking on orders, things coming in, and then in the afternoons, it's a lot of, how's everything 00:14:00running in the restaurant? How is my beer fermenting at the time? Planning out what beers I'm going to brew next? Talking to farmers about scheduling grain pickup.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: And every single week has been different. I do the trivia, I am posting on social media, as well as planning several different events behind the scenes and getting all those things up and rolling, so it's everything.

Richard Cox: That's good. It keeps you interested?

Meredith Gotz: Absolutely.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: I'm always on my toes.

Richard Cox: Yes. So how would you say, especially now that your head brewer, how would you say that Angry Troll reflects your brewing approach, interest, or philosophy?

Meredith Gotz: I feel like for me, the brewing side is keep it small, keep it local, but also be experimental and that always be willing to change your recipes and know that you can make a better batch. I recently brewed a second 00:15:00batch of pale ale that I had done, changed up the hop schedule and ended up with a much better tasting beer, in my opinion.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Every beer that I've brewed, unless it's something that I brew on a regular basis that I'm very happy with the recipe and I'll keep it the same.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Anything new that I've been coming out with, I constantly am tasting and saying, "Okay, how can I make this better?" That's one of my favorite things about brewing is that you have science and cooking, so you cook it using the best science that you can, you taste it and say, "Okay, if I could do it again, I would change A, B, and C."

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: And now you have the science and you know what to do and have a change it, do it again.

Richard Cox: Yes. It's like baking liquid.

Meredith Gotz: Absolutely.

Richard Cox: You were talking about your recipes. Is there a beer recipe that you created that you're most proud of?

Meredith Gotz: A lot of recipes that I have been brewing have been beers that 00:16:00were already being served, that just needed some cleaning up and some refreshing and those have come out great. I have a lot of beer styles now, or really flavors, that I've been designing, which starting this winter I actually have three Christmas beers that I'm coming out with, so I've got a cranberry wheat, a snickerdoodle cream ale, and a milk chocolate orange stout that I'm brewing, and that's going to be for a holiday cookie and beer pairing party that I'm essentially doing, so all three of those beers, I had a hibiscus and pink Himalayan sea salt Gose, that I worked on for Pink Boots, that I loved and it was something different from the brewery that I was brewing at.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: For me, I feel like if you can put out a beer that is different, that has interesting flavors, it doesn't necessarily have to be a triple dry hopped IPA.

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: I'm okay with making simpler beers as long as they taste great.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: Flavor is what it's all about.

Richard Cox: Yes, exactly. And how would you say, and you were talking about this a minute ago with local focus, but how would you say the brewing scene has changed since you went into the business?

Meredith Gotz: Ooh. Well there's a lot more breweries out there, for sure.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: I think that because there are so many more breweries out there, you have a mindset of, "Okay, look at everybody else that's opening," and it not only gives you more people to collaborate with and ask questions, and see what are they brewing?

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: But it also puts the focus and the importance on everything that you brew, everything that you release has got to taste good.

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: Because there are way too many competitors out there now where if you brew a bad batch or you just start being known as a less than tasty brewery.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: They're going to go somewhere else.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: And like I said, with a town with only two breweries in it, they don't have options, but they will go somewhere else and they will drive to Winston or Charlotte.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: To pick out another brewery.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So I think our biggest responsibility is to show people what craft beer is and it should always be delicious. Our second responsibility is to educate people on what they're drinking.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: I think an educated consumer is a smarter consumer. Once they start understanding where the flavor's coming from hops or the special ingredients, I think they're more interested in trying beers.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And then I also think too, a lot of breweries are probably starting smaller than what the original business plan might've been, which I don't think is a bad idea. I think it's impossible or very close to impossible 00:19:00for a brewery to open up with a 30 barrel system, or a 50 barrel system. Nobody really is like, "I'm going to go out there and start brewing 50 barrels at a time." You can't. Test the waters, start on something smaller, get your fan base going.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: And then see what you can do, and there's just so many breweries now and I think the error of having a constant go-to beer.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Has gone by the wayside. I feel like a lot of craft beer drinkers now, when they go into a favorite bar, 90 percent of the time aren't looking for the same IPA that they drink every time. What do you have new on draft?

Richard Cox: Right.

Meredith Gotz: That's what people are looking for and I think that's hard to do a new beer every week or every two weeks if you've got 15 barrels of product to move.

Richard Cox: Okay, and that goes back to what you were saying about education as well, because you're still always going to have the first time craft beer drinker.

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: Coming in, and that really ties in with all the other thing, it seems like.

Meredith Gotz: Absolutely. I think every brewery should at least try to have 00:20:00something that you can get a non-craft beer drinker to enjoy.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: That's one of the things I love about our downtown brown, our rail-trail red, our hefeweizen, they're all very approachable beers and I have had people who say, "I'm a wine drinker," I've had people say, "I don't like dark beer," and then once you put that beer in front of them and give them a little encouragement to just try it.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: It really opens their eyes and makes them aware that all dark beers aren't heavy, all IPAs are not bitter.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: Open them up and get them to actually learn something new.

Richard Cox: Yes. So what's it like working in the craft brewing industry today?

Meredith Gotz: It's fun.

Richard Cox: It's fun?

Meredith Gotz: It's so fun. The people that are in the industry are fantastic. The amount of knowledge and experience. A lot of people did not start off as 00:21:00craft brewers.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So you get people that were teachers and architects and lawyers and businessmen, and it's incredible to think how many professions can you see people that had alternate professions before then go into craft beer.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So it's obviously a science and a passion that spans the realm of everything people do.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: But I feel like there's a friendly competition.

Richard Cox: Sure.

Meredith Gotz: I find that somebody will release a style and then you know, "Hey, I'm doing seltzers," or, "Hey, I'm doing this double draft IPA," or, "I'm using butterfly pea powder," and give it a week, give it a couple of weeks, and then you'll notice that there's a trend. People are going to be releasing beers. They may not be as vocal as the first person that released that beer, but they will release their version.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: But I think it's so fun to see the different styles that are popular in our area.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And just the number of things that people come out with.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: It's a very experimental craft beer scene right now. There's a ton of new hops that are coming out. You're constantly pairing up with local maltsers to do different things with their grain. There's a lot of interesting collabs. There's brewing with traditional as well as experimental yeast strains and then using different adjuncts and local flavors. You have carrots and Muscadine grape juice and everything out there under the sun that people are using to brew with now, so I think it's just really interesting that people are not scared to try something different these days.

Richard Cox: Yes, absolutely. So talking about trying new things, are there any 00:23:00particular trends today that you really do like or dislike?

Meredith Gotz: I think that everything has, everything is a bell curve.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: Look at IPA's. You're going to have your milkshake, you're going to have your lactose IPA's, you're going to have your triple and double dry hopped IPA's, you're going to have your glitter beers and your weird colored beers. One of the styles that I really think is cool right now is the, and I'm sure I'm saying it wrong, everybody has their own pronunciation, but the Kveik yeast.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: It was the Norwegian Viking yeast that people are using. Completely fascinating that you can brew a beer from grain to glass in four days and be serving and in your tap room in less than a week. If you could harness that power, could you run an entire brewery like that, imagine how fast you can turn beer.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: When you're like, "Oh my cooler's empty. Okay give me the end of 00:24:00this week. I will have a beer that's ready to go."

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So I think there's that kind of styles are coming into play and they're delicious. I also think that there's a lot of new ways of even just dry hopping your yeast.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: I'm sorry, dry hopping your beers, that people are playing with and just seeing what kind of flavors you can get out of that. I also think that a lot of people are going back a little bit to more traditional styles.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: To see if it's an English, if it's a cask ale. What else can we do that's different or setting us apart from other breweries.

Richard Cox: Yes, and this is also something you seem to be already talking about but is, is there anything that you see as unique about Southern beer, or North Carolina beer specifically?

Meredith Gotz: Ooh, I don't know. I just got back from Chicago.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: And Chicago seems to have a lot of... It's interesting, I 00:25:00actually went to a brewery that was also a cidery. They got a double license for that and keeping that separate, but also crossing over ingredients. So I had a cider that was brewed with beer yeast and then dry hopped and it was absolutely delicious.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: But I feel like everybody out there is essentially just trying to brew a solid style of whatever they're picking for the week or the month.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: I don't really see anybody brewing something that's like, "Wow, that's completely off the wall and I will never drink that in a million years." I just think they're all different plays on the styles and some don't even fit categories and that's fine.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: Be as crazy as you want to be. Put yourself out there.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: It might be the next new awesome thing. I can only imagine what hazy IPA is like. "Let's try to serve this and see how this tastes," and then.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: "Oh wow, people really like it. Let's do it again."

Richard Cox: And again.

Meredith Gotz: And again, and again.

Richard Cox: So is there anything, bring the focus in a little bit on the brewing, do you see anything as unique about or different about the Triad area brewing scene as opposed to maybe other areas of North Carolina or elsewhere?

Meredith Gotz: I feel like the Triad is, when you look at Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte, or Asheville, they're probably the last big area that has room to grow for breweries.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: I think breweries in Greensboro, Winston, and High Point, they're the least amount of breweries and they're the widest spread.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: So there's definitely some room for growth and I think there's a lot of breweries that are opening up in those markets. I also feel like a lot of small towns now, to get more people to not only come to their town to visit, but also to move.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Are starting to look at breweries as a way of bringing people in. Anytime we've gone to a craft brewers conference, there's always some town that's like, "I have a fire station," or, "We have this land, we need a brewer, we'd like somebody to open a brewery here," and I think they're smart. I feel like when craft breweries really first started to come onto the scene, a lot of cities and zoning planners only wanted to put them in the business parks away from downtown, away from your communities, but now they really look at a brewery as bringing life into your city.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And they're okay with them being downtown. They're okay with him being 200 feet within a school and a lot of places are turning around and actually welcoming breweries with open arms.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: So I think it's really awesome to see legislation and zoning completely do a one 80 on that.

Richard Cox: Yes. Interesting. So the three fun questions to end it with. First 00:28:00is, what is your favorite beer from a North Carolina brewery other than your own?

Meredith Gotz: Oh, shit. I don't know.

Richard Cox: That's a good answer. We can move on.

Meredith Gotz: Yes, there are so many different beers out there. I will say, and it's one I just recently had and I feel like I've already called Sycamore out before, but had one from Sycamore called Juice Pop.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: And I feel like it probably had a little too much pineapple juice in there, but it was one of the most chuggable IPAs I've ever had that.

Richard Cox: Oh, wow.

Meredith Gotz: That, and Southern Pines, they did a mango beer and it's just put a straw in it. It's a Capri sun. I mean it's delicious.

Richard Cox: That's awesome.

Meredith Gotz: Yes.

Richard Cox: Yes. Does Angry Troll have a flagship or signature beer?

Meredith Gotz: So originally they started out with this list. There's a lot of beers that aren't on here anymore and when I asked for a list of flagship beers, 00:29:00I was given 12. I've narrowed it down. When you ask me, "What are you going to brew on your seven barrel system and try to get out for sale," I've narrowed it down to five. I'd probably narrow it down to three, but if I said I had five beers that if you came in are always on point, you have to try them, would be our Sir Walter ESB. It's a one hop Citra IPA that we brew. Those two are the biggest sellers and we contract brew through Skull Camp.

Richard Cox: Okay.

Meredith Gotz: To brew those. So I'm a little bit different with contract brewing, I actually physically go over there and brew it instead of just handing them the recipe, so I'm still physically brewing the beer, just on a bigger system.

Richard Cox: [crosstalk 00:29:44] You're just using their space.

Meredith Gotz: Yes. Our rail-trail red ale.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Our downtown Brown, and our hefeweizen are probably the five fastest moving.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: After that we'd be coffee and cinnamon honey porter. Those guys go out the door, and for a darker beer, I'm really proud of those, because I've 00:30:00been working diligently on breaking down the dark beer barriers that people seem to put up for some reason. I don't know why.

Richard Cox: Yes, who knows? So different from the signature beer, do you have a favorite angry troll beer?

Meredith Gotz: So the one hop citra was supposed to be a one hop feature hop series.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: They brewed the beer with the citrus hop first, which became really popular, but the one that, well there was two, the galaxy and the mosaic, both of those that I brewed, absolutely loved them. The galaxy hops also really shined and with that hop only coming from Australia, I feel like it gives people a taste of something that's a little bit different and it helps them bridge that barrier between, "I don't like IPAs," and, "Oh I would actually probably have another one of these."

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: The other one I'm really happy with is our lemon drop paleo. 00:31:00Trying to find something that is a good gateway beer.

Richard Cox: Yes.

Meredith Gotz: For people that are really hung up on PBR, and I think I've pretty much figured it out now. It doesn't have a lot of perceived bitterness.

Richard Cox: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Meredith Gotz: Just a tiny little bit of lemon that gets you to take another sip, but it's not tart and it's, you can have three or four of them.

Richard Cox: Awesome. What are you having now?

Meredith Gotz: This is our citra one hop, because it's on draft.

Richard Cox: Perfect. That's all I have.

Meredith Gotz: Sweet.

Richard Cox: Is there anything else you want to add?

Meredith Gotz: Come to Elkin. Come drink our beer.

Richard Cox: And they should.

Meredith Gotz: Absolutely.

Richard Cox: Thank you so much.

Meredith Gotz: Thank you.