00:00:00WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECT
ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Virginia "Ginny" Gilbert Mattson
INTERVIEWER: Hermann J. Trojanowski
DATE: January 9, 1999
[Begin Interview]
HT: Today is January 9, 1999, I'm at the home of Ginny Mattson to conduct an
interview for the Women Veterans Historical Collection.
Ginny, thank you so much for meeting with me today. Could you please tell me
something about your biographical background, such as your name, your hometown,
your family, the date you entered the military service, about the age that you
entered the service, and your rank?
VM: Okay, I grew up in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, graduated from high school
there, two years of junior collegeI have an Associate of Arts degreeand was
working in a women's apparel store when the war was going on, and decided that
taking a first aid course was not enough to do for the country, so I just
decided on a lunch hour to go up and enlist in the navy, which I did. Didn't
tell anybody, didn't ask anybody, just did it, and then broke the news to my
family, who were very happy about it. And I was twenty-three at the time and
00:01:00spent twenty-six months in the service.
HT: So your parents did not have to sign for you at all?
VM: No.
HT: And you say your parents were quite happy about you joining?
VM: Yes. [chuckling]
HT: They didn't feel anything negative about it?
VM: My mother had wanted to be in the Navy in the First World War, and her
mother wouldn't let her, so the closest she got to being in the service was
going down to the railroad station and passing out coffee and doughnuts to the
soldiers as they came through on the train. And my father had been in the Army
in World War I, and didn't have a son to send, so he was happy that I enlisted.
HT: Did you have any siblings who were in the military?
VM: No.
HT: Do you recall what the climate of the country was during World War II? What
I'm talking about, was everyone very patriotic and that sort of thing?
VM: Very patriotic. Everybody wanted to do something, and I think especially the
women. That's why some of them became Rosie the Riveter, joined the serviceI
00:02:00think everybody felt as if they just wanted to help the country.
HT: And was there any particular reason why you chose the WAVES [Women Accepted
for Volunteer Emergency Service] as opposed to one of the other services?
VM: No, not really. I guess I had seen the posters around town that said,
"Release A Man to Go to Sea," and that kind of appealed to me, and I thought I
could do the same paperwork that they were doing. And I guess I liked their
uniforms. [chuckling]
HT: Were any of your friends in the military, women friends, men friends?
VM: Yes, a lot of men friends. And four women left the same day I did from
Williamsport, and three of them were good friends of mine. We never saw each
other again after that day, but they were good friends. We didn't know each
other was signing out either.
HT: That's interesting. Where did you enter the service?
VM: In Philadelphia.
HT: And do you remember what your first day was like?
00:03:00
VM: At boot camp? At Hunter College [Bronx, New York]. I don't remember a whole
lot about Hunter, to tell you the truth, except marching from 9:00 to 5:00 every
day, rain or shine. And we didn't have our uniforms and raincoats for about two
weeks, so we used to come in with our clothes sopping wet every night. The first
day, I think we registered and got our rooms assigned and got fitted for our
uniforms, which were tailored by Mainbocher and really fit nicely, [chuckling]
not like the poor girls are wearing now in boot camp. That's all I remember
about the first day.
HT: Can you tell us something about where Hunter was?
VM: It's in the Bronx, New York. Right outside of New York City, and we were
there for six weeks and had one weekend that we could be out till nine o'clock.
My mother and two friends came down to visit me that weekend and we went into
New York for dinner, and I had to be back at Hunter by 9:00 [p.m.], so we didn't
00:04:00have a whole lot of time to do any sightseeing.
HT: Was this the first time you had been away from home for any period of time?
VM: Yes, it was the first time I had ever been away from home.
HT: And I'm sure that was quite exciting.
VM: [chuckling] It was exciting the day I left to go to boot camp. I thought I
had made a big mistake, and I didn't want to leave home, but after I got there I
was okay.
HT: And how long were you in the military, all totaled?
VM: Twenty-six months.
HT: Do you remember the dates that you went in?
VM: Mm-hmm, June 15, 1944, and I was discharged, I think, on August 15, 1946. I
could have gotten out in '45 when the war was over, when the atom bomb was
dropped and the war was over, but I chose to stay an extra year.
HT: Did you ever think about making it a career?
VM: I didn't. I didn't. I don't know why exactly, but I didn't.
HT: So you weren't encouraged by your parents or your friends to stay in?
00:05:00
VM: At Mechanicsburg, [Pennsylvania], the last place I served at Naval Supply
Depot, they asked us if we wanted to reenlist, and I said no. And I don't know
why, except that from there we were going to be transferred to Philadelphia Navy
Yard for a while, and for some reason I didn't want to go to Philadelphia Navy
Yard, so I decided to go home.
HT: And where were you stationed for your tour of duty?
VM: Mostly at Naval Supply Depot, Mechanicsburg. After boot camp I went to Cedar
Falls, Iowa, for three months of yeoman training.
HT: Can you tell us something about your yeoman training days?
VM: Well, we took classes most of the day. Again, we spent part of the day
marching around the campus. I don't know why we did all this marching, we were
never going to do it again, but we marched, and sang all the time we were
marching, which was fun. And every Sunday afternoon, my roommate and I used to
00:06:00go down to the USO [United Service Organizations] to write letters back home.
When we were walking back to the campus, several times people in the town would
pick us up and take us home for cookies and milk. And they were very friendly,
even though we took over their college. I never knew where the students went
from the teachers college in Cedar Falls, Iowa. We just took it over, and the
students weren't there. I don't know what they did with them.
HT: I think that was quite common, from what I've read, that many colleges were
taken over for various training purposes and that sort of thing.
VM: Apparently. Hunter, we took over Hunter College.
HT: After you left Cedar Falls, you went to Mechanicsburg?
VM: Went to Naval Supply Depot, Mechanicsburg, PA, which is near Harrisburg, [Pennsylvania].
HT: And what type of work did you do there?
VM: I did personnel work, and I was what they called the transfer yeoman in
the personnel office. What I had to do when any sailor was being transferred
from our base to any place, and most of them went to the South Pacific, was to
00:07:00bring their service records up to date, put in there what they had done at
Mechanicsburg, arrange their transportation, get their paycheck for them,
arrange for their physicals, and give them a little lecture before they went
off. They didn't know where they were going, and I knew they were going to the
Pacific, but their orders read California. But I felt so sorry for them, and it
got to the point I finally went down to the station to see them offthey said no
other transfer yeoman had ever done that any place they wereand kissed them
goodbye. [chuckling]
HT: Oh, that's very interesting. Do you feel you made a positive contribution to
the war effort?
VM: I do. I do, because I actually released a man for active duty to go to the Pacific.
HT: How did you feel about that? Did you have any negative feelings that you
might send a man into combat?
VM: I did. I thought I'd sent him off to die. But two years later he called back
to the base and said, "I'm home in New Orleans," and I said, "Dave, I've never
00:08:00been so glad to hear anybody's voice in all my life." And so he made it back,
and I was glad about that.
HT: That's wonderful, yes. It sounds like you really enjoyed your work.
VM: I did, I loved it. I loved it. I didn't have to take shorthand. [chuckling]
I had to take a lot of that at yeoman school, but I didn't care for that a whole
lot, so I didn't have to do that.
HT: Do you think you were treated equally with the men who had had the same
position as you before?
VM: Yes.
HT: Did you encounter any discrimination?
VM: No, I didn't. No harassment or discrimination or anything like that.
HT: Do you think you received any kind of special treatment?
VM: No, I don't think so.
HT: And were you singled out in any way for any kind of preferential treatment
or any kind of negative treatment, that you can recall?
VM: I had a little bit of preferential treatment. When I first got to
Mechanicsburg, our highest-ranking woman officer's secretary had not arrived
00:09:00yet, and she was a chief yeoman, so I was asked to be her secretary for about
two or three months till her chief got there. and before I left, I had become
yeoman first class. I went from seaman first class to yeoman third class, yeoman
second class, and yeoman first class, and the next step would have been chief,
but I didn't stay long enough for that.
HT: Well, what was the hardest thing that you ever had to do, physically?
VM: Physically? Go through the regimental reviews every Saturday morning at
Hunter College. We had to stand for hours, at attention, and we all had just had
a whole bunch of shots for everything. Even though we weren't going overseas, we
had shots for everything. You could stand there at attention and see out of the
corner of your eye people dropping like flies all over the place, and the first
aid people would come by and pick them up on stretchers and carry them out. And
we had to just stand there for hours while the officers were reviewing our
00:10:00regiments one by one. I think that was the hardest physical thing I ever had to do.
HT: That was sort of like a parade?
VM: Yes, except we just stood, we didn't march. We marched in, but then we just
stood to be reviewed.
HT: And what was the hardest thing you ever had to do, emotionally?
VM: I guess sending the sailors to the Pacific, because I knew they were going
right where the action was.
HT: I'm sure that was very difficult.
VM: It was. It was. I just wonder how many of them came back.
HT: I'm assuming that you did not keep in contact with any of these guys who
went overseas?
VM: Just a couple, and they did get back. But I sent out, oh goodness, batches
of twenty and twenty-five at a time, so there were hundreds that I sent out over
the couple of years.
HT: Do you recall any embarrassing moments?
00:11:00
VM: Oh, I'm sure there were some. One I can remember. I always had to give these
boys a little talk of instructions before they left our base and what they were
to do when they got to the next place. And one morning I woke up very early in
the morning with no voice and I went straight to the sick bay. They had me
breathing in a paper bag and giving me all this stuff to get my voice back, but
I never did, and I had all these sailors in the office, and my assistant finally
had to give my little speech to them. I couldn't get a word out. That was kind
of embarrassing. But otherwise I don't remember anything really embarrassing.
HT: Do you ever recall being afraid?
VM: No. No.
HT: Do you feel like you were ever in any physical danger?
VM: No.
HT: Can you tell us something about your social life? What'd you do for fun? You
mentioned going to the USO on Sundays, I believe it was?
00:12:00
VM: Yeah, that was out in Cedar Falls. They didn't have a lot going on there.
But after we got to Mechanicsburg, that was right near Harrisburg and Hershey,
[Pennsylvania], and Hershey had a big band come every Wednesday night, so we did
a lot of dancing. And we went to the hockey games at Hershey, and we had a lot
of parties at the Petty Officers Club. It was open every night. We were there
quite often.
HT: Do you recall what your hours were?
VM: Working?
HT: Yes.
VM: I think they were about 8:00 to 5:00. We had to catch a bus in Harrisburg.
There were no barracks at Mechanicsburg, so my roommate and I had an apartment,
and we had to catch a bus at seven o'clock in the morning. Everybody slept all
the way to the base, because it took about an hour to get there. And I think we
started at 8:00 and worked till 5:00.
HT: And so your evenings were free to do what you wanted to do?
00:13:00
VM: Mm-hmm.
HT: And did you ever have reviews, parades, and that sort of thing, have duties afterwards?
VM: We did have to march in a couple parades in Harrisburg. I think it might
have been Memorial Day, and at that time called Armistice Day, in November,
that's now called Veterans' Day. But we didn't have to do a lot of it.
HT: The '40s were a great time for many of my personal favorite movies and songs
and that sort of thing. Do you recall any of your favorite movies and songs and
dances from that period?
VM: All of the Glenn Miller songs. [chuckling] And movies? I don't think I went
to many movies while I was in the Navy. I don't remember the movies. I don't
think we had time to do that.
HT: As you mentioned earlier, this was really the first time you'd ever been
away for any extended period of time. How did you feel about being away from
00:14:00home, from your parents and from your friends and your neighbors?
VM: I was homesick, very homesick, until I got back to Mechanicsburg, and then I
came home a lot of weekends.
HT: So Mechanicsburg was close enough to Williamsport?
VM: It was about a hundred miles from home, so I came home a lot, [chuckling]
and was glad to get back to Pennsylvania.
HT: What did you think of Franklin D. Roosevelt?
VM: I thought he did a lot of good. The NRA [National Recovery Administration]
and the CCC [Civilian Conservation Corps], I think, especially was good for the
young men at that time. And some of those places that he had built at that time
are still standing.
HT: And what did you think of Mrs. [Eleanor] Roosevelt?
VM: I admired her. I thought she was a fine person.
HT: And who were your heroes?
VM: I guess the generals and the admirals who finally got this war stopped.
00:15:00
HT: And who were your heroines?
VM: Hmm, good question. [chuckling] Good question. Hermann, I don't know. I
don't know if I thought much about that.
HT: Well, if you think of it later on, we can put it in.
VM: Okay. I can't think of any.
HT: Do you recall where you were when you heard about VE Day [Victory in Europe Day]?
VM: I think I was at the office working, and it exploded [chuckling] with
shouting and crying, laughing. And the same thing with VJ Day [Victory in Japan
Day]. I think I was in the office, and a lot of people were saying, "Oh, we can
go home now, we can go home now." Sailors particularly. It was very emotional,
00:16:00too, in the office.
HT: I can imagine it would be, yes. About the time that your tour of duty was
over, were you encouraged to return to the female role that you had prior to
joining the service?
VM: I was, because the GI Bill would pay part of my salaryI went back to the
sameassistant credit manager at this women's apparel store. And I wish that I
had not done that and gone to college in the last two years. But they were so
persuasive at this place I worked that I went back, and I do have a little bit
of regret about that.
HT: And what type of work did you do at theyou said it was an apparel store?
VM: A women's apparel store. Assistant credit manager.
HT: And could you describe for us your adjustment to civilian life?
00:17:00
VM: I don't think I had much of an adjustment. I just sort of went back to the
same place I had been. I saw the same friends at lunchtime, worked with the same
people. It was just as if I'd been away a little while.
HT: What impact did the military have on your life, immediately and then in the
long term?
VM: Well, [it] made me be on time for everything, and be very patriotic and take
part in whatever holiday celebrations there are, memorial observances. I don't
know what else to say about that.
HT: Well, do you think your life has been different because of the military?
VM: Yes, I think so. It taught me tolerance of my fellow man. When I had to be
00:18:00with five other people in the dorm at Hunter, it taught me to be tolerant.
[chuckling] Because I had a bedroom of my own, nobody to worry about, and here
we had to clean our rooms, have white-glove inspections every Saturday, so we
had to work and take care of that room. Five of us did it out of the six. She
sat and looked and watched, and we all got very disturbed with that. So we had
to be very tolerant of her.
HT: Was this a typical college room?
VM: Yeah, a regular dorm.
HT: And I think you said earlier that when you were in Mechanicsburg you
actually had an apartment with a friend.
VM: Mm-hmm.
HT: So that was more like civilian-type living?
VM: Yes.
HT: And just going to work every day in a military setting?
VM: Mm-hmm.
HT: And would you do it again, if you had the chance?
VM: I'd do it in a minute. [chuckling] If they needed somebody to do paperwork
now, I'd go. I hope it doesn't come to that, that they're that desperate, but
00:19:00I'd go in a minute.
HT: Do you consider yourself to be an independent person? Did the military make
you this way, or were you that type before you entered the military?
VM: I think I was slightly independent before I went in. I think the military
made me more independent, and I'm almost too independent now.
HT: Would you consider yourself a pioneer or a trailblazer or a trendsetter when
you entered the service?
VM: I didn't think about that. But since I've heard it so much in the last six
months, I have kind of reconsidered and I guess I do think we were trailblazers,
as far as women after the war not staying home the way they had before, taking
jobs, and realizing they could do other things besides keeping house. And they
went to work in offices and, well, all kinds of places. Since I've heard the
term so much, I guess we were sort of trailblazers.
00:20:00
HT: Have any of your children ever been in the military?
VM: No.
HT: How do you feel about women in combat positions? I know recently, in
December of 1998, women flew combat missions over Iraq. Do you approve of this?
VM: I've been torn about this question. I'm not sure. I would hate to see
anybody who left a tiny baby at home go into combat and be killed. On the other
hand, they signed up to do everything, and if they didn't want to do that, I
think they shouldn't sign up. But it's a ticklish question.
HT: It truly is.
VM: I'm not sure how I feel about it.
HT: Do you consider yourself a feminist?
VM: I don't think so.
HT: Ginny, I know you're very active in the local WAVE unit. Could you please
tell me about the unit and what it does and what you do?
VM: Well, there's this national group called WAVES National, which somehow I got
00:21:00involved in, and don't remember how, but I know that I've been getting their
bimonthly newsletter for years and years. But in 1987, somebody moved to town
and called me on the phone and said she'd been in a WAVES unit in Columbus,
Ohio, and would I like to help start one in Greensboro. She had four names of
former WAVES, and I said, "Well, I guess so," and didn't know much about WAVES
units at that time. But four of us got together and decided we'd like to recruit
some other people. So we put a little two-line notice in the newspaper and gave
the time of our next meeting, and six people came. We put another little notice
in, and the next time eight people came. And we branched out from there until we
had at one time thirty-three members. At the present time, we have twenty-three.
00:22:00And we take part in the veterans parade in High Point. One year we went to
Charlotte to be in their veterans parade. We go to Forest Lawn Cemetery and
take a wreath every Memorial Day, on whatever the Sunday is that's closest to
Memorial Day, and meet monthly throughout the fall, winter, and spring, and just
have social events in the summertime to get together. And we reminisce. None of
us knew each other before we were in this unit, and I probably would not have
met any of these people if it hadn't been for this WAVES unit, and I consider a
lot of them my very good friends now. And I think everybody enjoys getting together.
HT: Is there anything else that you'd like to add about your military service
that we haven't covered?
00:23:00
VM: No, I think we've pretty well covered it.
[End of Interview]
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