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Partial Transcript: The question that I start everybody out with, which I hope is not a difficult one, is where were you born and where'd you grow up?
Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Van Dongen discusses her early life and working at Eastman Kodak before joining the military.
Keywords: World War II era (1940-1946)
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Partial Transcript: You said you were all of nine days in Washington and then you applied to this radio school.
Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Van Dongen discusses applying and attending radio school during World War II as well as her social life during that time.
Keywords: Coast Guard--SPARS; World War, 1939-1945
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Partial Transcript: Let me ask you this. Do you remember D-Day and where you were when D-Day was announced?
Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Van Dongen discusses Victory in Japan Day (VJ Day) and her thoughts on Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) and Eleanor Roosevelt.
Keywords: Eleanor Roosevelt; Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR); Victory in Japan Day (VJ Day); World War II era (1940-1946)
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Partial Transcript: Are there other songs or movies you see on AMC or something that when you hear or see take you back to that time?
Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Van Dongen discusses pop culture in the 1940s, life during the service, and the climate of America during World War II.
Keywords: Coast Guard--SPARS; World War II era (1940-1946)
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Partial Transcript: You know, we now have—I guess this is the difference between—one of the big differences between World War II and now, with the military, is that women can do so many more things in the military.
Segment Synopsis: Mrs. Van Dongen discusses her thoughts on women in combat, being a woman in the workforce, and impact the military had on her life.
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WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECT
ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Virginia Walsh Young Van Dongen
INTERVIEWER: Eric Elliot
DATE: November 10, 1999
[Begin Interview]
EE: Well good morning California, or afternoon, whatever time it is there. This
is Eric Elliott, and Im with the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and this is an interview for the Women Veterans Historical Project at the University. Today I amis Connestee Falls a formal town?VD: No, its a complex.
EE: Its a complex. So its still Brevard?
VD: Its outside of Brevard.
EE: Outside of Brevard. Well, I am at the home this morning of Virginia Van
Dongen, and I appreciate you for having me here this morning. Were going to talk about your service in the military, and a little bit about your life before and afterwards. The question that I start everybody out with, which I hope is not a difficult one, is where were you born and where did you grow up?VD: I was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Little town of Dormott, really. But
I grew up and we moved to Worcester, Mass. Grew up in Rochester, New York, moved 00:01:00there when I was five. Rochester we lived many years.EE: So Rochester is where you graduated from high school?
VD: Yes.
EE: What did your folks do for a living?
VD: My father was in the grocery business. Van Dykes Tea and Coffee was a good
grocery store. My mother didnt work; she had seven children. But she did have room and boarders, which a lot of women did in those days to make ends meet.EE: The seven how many brothers, how many sisters, and where were you?
VD: Well, one [older] brother died [at seven] before I was around. Three
brothers and two sisters. I was the youngest. They called me the baby. My older brother called me the baby after I had all [eight] of my children, I was still the baby.EE: No matter how old you are, youre still the baby. Well, there are some
advantages with that. What was the name of the high school that you graduated 00:02:00from in Rochester?VD: John Marshall High.
EE: Were you somebody who liked school growing up?
VD: Not especially. In fact, I left after three years, and in those days,
Eastman Kodak hired me, before Id even graduated. I was seventeen. And I finishedI only needed English, so I finished at night school, got my diploma, and then and took a few courses in college.EE: When did you start working for Eastman Kodak? What year was that?
VD: Well, let me think. I was seventeen, and Im seventy-six now.
EE: Youre going to make me do math, too. Okay.
VD: Was that 59 or 61? No wait a minute. I was seventeen and Im seventy-six now.
00:03:00EE: 39 or 61? If you were seventy-seven now that would have be sixty years
ago, which would have been 39. So it was either 39 or 40 when you started.VD: Well that many years ago then youve gotta subtract it from 99, right? Ok.
Thats when I started then. You did that? Whatve you got down, 19-- what?EE: Well if Im running the numbers and youre seventy-seven when youre really
seventy-six, sixty years ago is 39. Thats when you were seventy-seven.VD: It must have been 40, though, right? It must have been 40.
EE: Right, right. Take away one. So you were still living at the house and
working at Eastman?VD: I was.
EE: What kind of work did you do at Eastman?
VD: I was a keypunch operator, tabulating department.
EE: So that was their central business operations for all their different
00:04:00laboratory work?VD: Yes, it was Kodak office, a building. Theres all different kinds of
buildings for Kodak.EE: You worked in 40. I guess you were doing that job when Pearl Harbor came around?
VD: Yes, right.
EE: Which would have been, I guess youd have been at home that Sunday, or where
were you Pearl Harbor day?VD: Im trying to think. It was on a Sunday. I was home. I was home, but I cant
remember exactly what happened. I really cant. On Pearl Harbor. I dont recall.EE: Most folks when theyre teenagers dont really concern themselves with world
events, no matter whats going on in the world. Teenagers are teenagers. Were you thinking about anything? A war had broken out in Europe in 39. Did you give any thought about the war in Europe? Were operations different at the Kodak plant because of the war starting? 00:05:00VD: I dont believe so, not that I can recall. No.
EE: You were doing that job and when exactly did you join the SPARs [Coast Guard
Womens Reserve, from the motto Semper ParatusAlways Ready]?VD: Lets see, I was seventeen then. I think I was twenty, so then two years later.
EE: So 43?
VD: Yes, I think that would have been it. Ive got all that info, exactly the
dates, but I dont have it out here with me.EE: I think in most services you had to be twenty-one to join, unless you had a
parents signature. Did you get a signature?VD: I had my mothers permission. She didnt like it at first because she was
losing her room and board, but I made her a partial dependent and that worked out for her.EE: That she would continue to get some funds?
VD: She would get money from me through the service and she also rented my room,
00:06:00so she got ahead of the game.EE: So she made money by having you leave home?
VD: Yes.
EE: Okay, well most parents have found that out.
VD: Then it was okay. Now, not in our day. We used to pay quite a bit of room
and board, so she was upset at first.EE: When you joined, were any of your siblings in the service?
VD: No. My one brother had sugar and he tried to join and they found out he had
sugar. The other brother did join, or was drafted, but he also didnt stay in very long. My third brother was in the army. He was in Paris and all around. In fact, he drove a jeep for [Douglas] MacArthur. He was in Europe quite a long time. The one boy was in only maybe nine months and the other fellow was rejected for sugar. 00:07:00EE: All those folks, all your brothers had joined or had applied before you made
the decision to join?VD: Yes.
EE: What was it that led you to pick the Coast Guard, as opposed to any of the
other branches that were out there?VD: I dont know. I guess I wanted to be a little different. It was new and I
just got an idea in my head. I dont know. Im quite independent. Nobody persuaded me for one thing or another, and my brothers were not in the Coast Guard, or even the Navy. They were in the Army.EE: How did you even find out about it? [Were] there advertisements on the radio
or in the paper?VD: Yes, yes. There must have been.
EE: You didnt have any friends who were joining the service?
VD: No, I didnt. I didnt know anybody that was in it.
EE: In any of the branches of the service?
VD: No, no. Not up in Kodak office, no.
EE: What did your supervisor think about that?
VD: Oh, they were great. I had a wonderful boss. He took me to all the branches
and wanted me to know all about Kodak and all about the keypunching operations. 00:08:00He spent a lot of time with me. He was very good. But then when I got in, I didnt continue with the keypunching. I wanted some fun. I wanted something different. Thats what I wanted.EE: And they were supportive of your decision to go off?
VD: Yes. I was a good employee, though. They liked me and I did go back afterwards.
EE: I was going to say, did they give you an offer? Did they say, Well, when
youre through, come on back. Weve got a job for you.VD: Oh, I think they had to do that in those days. I think they had to promise
you your job.EE: If you were leaving to join the military, they had to hold the job for you?
VD: Yes.
EE: Comforting to know, when you thought, just a few years ago, it was very hard
to find a job. Seemed like I recall reading in Mr. [George L.] McDermotts synopsis of your career that you had met a young gentleman by the time that you made a decision to join the service.VD: Yes. Chuck, my husband, lived in our town, and we became engaged before I joined.
00:09:00EE: Did he have an opinion on your joining the service?
VD: Well, men in those days thought that women were pretty loose and wild that
joined, you know, and I really and truly was anything but. I was very square. In fact, my personal life, that I saw somewhere, they said how I was overprotected and how I hadnt been around. I never did get around in that way, but I still had a good time.EE: Was he concerned about your being exposed to things that he didnt want you
being exposed to?VD: I think so. Men.
EE: Okay. So you were already engaged when you joined?
VD: Yes.
EE: And I guess had you beenif you had been married, you would have hadwould
you have had to have your husbands permission to join?VD: I dont think they took married women, did they, in those days?
EE: I think youre right, because I think once you got married, they asked you
00:10:00to leave, didnt they?VD: Yes, and especially if you were pregnant, they didnt keep you.
EE: Well, yes, pregnant was a different thing altogether.
VD: I think so.
EE: I think most of the women Ive talked to who got married they were out
within six months. They were probably all asked to leave sooner than that, but some just took a while to get out. Youre in Rochester, youre not at the beach. I guess, where did you go to sign up forwere you freeing a man to fight, by the way?VD: Pardon me?
EE: Did the Coast Guard use that phrase, Free a man to fight?
VD: Not that I recall. No.
EE: Did they tell you the kind of work that you would be doing?
VD: No, they didnt. They put me immediately into keypunching. I went to West
Palm Beach, for boot, and from there, I was very disappointed to be sent to Washington, D.C., to the tabulating department. I was living off base with 00:11:00several girls that were not my type. I wasnt happy. I was supposed to be working trick work, which I didnt Eastman Kodak, and I was working with civilians who were getting big pay for this.When I read the sign up for radio school, and I had no experience in that at
all. You were supposed to have had some experience. But I am pretty determined and I remember walking down the hall to one of the officers to apply, and saying that I didnt have experience, but I wasnt going to stay here and do keypunching. I didnt come in the service for that.EE: Well, you know, whats amazing is that most people Ive talked to, when they
joined the military, they assigned them something they have had no experience in, they dont have any knowledge in, but you got assigned doing what you had been doing but you didnt want to do that.VD: No, and I didntWashington wasnt exciting to me, although I liked it, but
00:12:00I didnt like the style of living. I was only there nine days, and just said, You know, youre not going to get any work out of me, which wasnt very nice. So they decided they better let me go.EE: Where did you sign up in Rochester? Was it at the post office, or did they
have a recruiting station that you visited? Do you remember?VD: Yes, it was Rochester. I went to Buffalo for something, but I think that was
on our way down to boot camp. I know I went to Buffalo.EE: Did you have to take a physical or testing?
VD: Yes, you have to take a physical, and I did take some testing, some written
work. Boy, youre trying to make me recall a long ways back here.EE: Yes, I am. Not that I expect you to, but I can ask.
VD: Im wondering if I went to Buffalo to sign up. We went to Buffalo for
something, but I think that was on our way down to Palm Beach, we stopped over.EE: So your train left from Buffalo, maybe?
VD: That might have been it, yes.
EE: Was that your first ride? Did you guys just go in a Pullman, or what did
00:13:00youwas it a troop train that you were headed down in?VD: No it wasnt Pullman. No, it wasnt a troop train. It was a regular train,
but it wasnt a luxury train or anything. The trains werent so good in the war days. As everyone has told you, we all sat on our suitcases and all that, and the trains were dirty and sooty, but it was fun. I was all excited.EE: Was that your first big train trip?
VD: Yes, it really was. I remember playing cards on the way down. The first time
Id been away and I just loved it. I dont know why.EE: Well, you were the right age to go away and have a good time, at twenty then.
VD: I guess so, yes.
EE: You were down at Palm Beach. Now, that was
VD: I believe it was West Palm Beach.
EE: West Palm Beach. And thats where they had the hotel that they have
VD: It was the Biltmore Hotel. It was a big pink building that, of course,
wasnt fancy inside. I dont know if theyve redone that. I think they may have. 00:14:00It had been a nice resort hotel.EE: How many of you all were in a room? Thats one thing about the Coast Guard,
as opposed to being in a barracks with forty, you at least have a little bit more privacy.VD: I remember in radio school how many I had, and lets see if I remember the
other one in Port Angeles [Washington]. But at boot camp, I believe it was like a small barracks. I believe there were maybe ten in a room. They were big rooms, and I think we may have had something like that. I was back visiting that room, after fifty years, on one of our trips cross country, but of course, it was different. Its a helicopter place now, in Port Angeles. We had PBYs and PBMs [seaplanes] [during the war]. I went up to my room. It was a big room, so I would imagine we had about ten in there, if I recall.EE: What was basic like for someone going through the Coast Guard training? What
00:15:00was it like?VD: Basic training?
EE: Yes.
VD: It was hard, very hard.
EE: Physically?
VD: Yes. It was very hot down there and muggy. Ive never liked Florida since.
We were up on a high floor and I thought I wasnt going to be able to breathe. We scrubbed floors and stairs and we marched down to the ocean, and we marched around in that area too. I dont think they were real easy on us. We couldnt travel very far when we had time off, but I was a little devil. Used to call me Satan Minor. A few of the girls and I thought, Gee, were this far, we might as well go down to Miami on our day off. I wasnt very scared, I guess, of the rules.EE: You were the instigator.
VD: Yes, I was bad.
EE: Everybodys fears are coming through already, in basic.
00:16:00VD: Right.
EE: Were most of your instructors men or women, or?
VD: They were men.
EE: Forty-threewas it springtime, fall? What time of year did you join?
VD: It was May, I believe, down there, because I remember how hot it was.
EE: Hot, but not as hot it was going to be, in August.
VD: No, no. Muggy, muggy.
EE: I guess your day starts out like everybody elses, with drill in the
morning, and classes following and thenhow does it work? Isnt there a little parade ground right there by the lake that you all drilled by?VD: Yes. We walked through the streets.
EE: Classes were where the gift shops used to be.
VD: Im trying to think of classes, what we had for classes, because I dont
remember any classes. Youre really sticking me here. I cant remember.EE: Well, the thing is, is the questions, and this why even though some of the
information is there there are going to be some different things in there that 00:17:00help see if theres some other things to remember. Im always amazed at what people can remember from fifty years ago, frankly. I cant remember two weeks ago.One of the things that, by asking about that, is that several people are at
these basicbasic training is one spot where usually everybody funnels through one or two places, so you get, from different peoples recollections, a fuller picture of what actually was happening. Did they tell you what you couldwere there job choices that you could pick from? I guess when you get out of basic, youre what, a yeoman? What are you when you come out of basic?VD: I was a radioman third class, but I wasnt out of basic Coast Guard. Seaman, maybe.
00:18:00EE: Do they tell you that you have certain kinds of work, that as a SPAR youre
eligible to do? Like, whether its office work or cook and bakers kind of thing?VD: I dont remember that, no, because I wouldnt have put down keypunching, and
thats what I got. I know they let us have a choice of areas where wed like to be.EE: Did you pick Washington?
VD: No way, no. I didnt.
EE: What did you pick? Whatever was farthest away from home?
VD: Farthest away. Yes, because I wanted experience, I probably did.
EE: And in 43, they werent even letting you all go to Alaska or Hawaii then,
were they?VD: No, but they did while I was in, and I did apply. Again, I was under my
mothers influence. She didnt want me to go to Hawaii, but she consented to Alaska. So I put in for Alaska.EE: Because its too cold to do anything that gets you in trouble, right?
VD: Yes. I put in for Alaska, but the war was over before I got to go there.
EE: You said you were all of nine days in Washington, and then you applied to
00:19:00this radio school. Was your CO [commanding officer], when you were doing just that short time in keypunch work, was that with an all-women office, or were there women and men working together?VD: They were mostly men, that I recall.
EE: So your immediate supervisor was a man?
VD: A man, yes.
EE: Was he in the Coast Guard or in the Navy or a civilian?
VD: I think he was a Coast Guard man. He wasnt a civilian.
EE: When you requested this assignmentand Mr. McDermotts book [Women Recall
the War Years: Memories of World War II] recalls that you apparently had to put up some little fight for it.VD: Yes, I did.
EE: And it wasnt because you were a woman, but because simply, you had no experience.
VD: I had no experience, right. And they wanted me in the keypunch. That was
what they needed and wanted, really.EE: When I hear radio I think of like a ham radio operator, or somebody doing
the communications or running a communications center. Was that the kind of work 00:20:00that you would be doing? Is that what they were training people for?VD: Most of our training was with Morse code. That was almost all of it. We did
teletype also.EE: Do you remember much of the Morse code?
VD: No, I dont. Di-di-dit. Da-da-da. Di-di-dit.
EE: I think SOS is about all I can remember from my Cub Scout days.
VD: Yes, right, right, I know. Well, I did well in school there, but I cant
remember it at all.EE: You left after nine days then, to go into that school? Was that school in
Washington or where did they have that school?VD: No, it was in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Right on the boardwalkwell, right
off the boardwalk.EE: Not the worst place in the world to go for training, I would think.
VD: No, it was very, very nice. Terrible old hotel, though. Should have been
condemned. It was awful. And I remember, there were just two in a room, but the rooms were real tiny.EE: This was a coed school? This was men and women?
VD: Oh, they were almost all men, yes. Almost all men. Very few women in
00:21:00comparison. It was a huge school, very large. I dont know if in the thousands of men or not, but very few women. I think there were like thirty or forty women.EE: How long did this training last?
VD: Five months.
EE: Thats a long time. You had signed on for the duration, I guess, when you
signed on, right?VD: Yes.
EE: What did your intended think when you wrote him a note that said, By the
way, Im in a radio school with 99 percent men.VD: Well, I dont think he worried too much, actually.
EE: He was stationed in New Guinea at that time?
VD: Yes. Well, first he went to California, but I believe when I joined, he was
already in New Guinea.EE: He was in the Seabees.
VD: Yes. He never saw me in uniform. He never wanted to, I dont think.
EE: He just didnt want to imagine you in that environment?
00:22:00VD: No, no.
EE: What about your children? Did they ever see you in uniform? Did you keep
your uniform to show them?VD: Theyve seen pictures, thats all. I wouldnt fit into my uniform.
EE: This school was for five months, and itsare you learning about the
machinery, the science of how the radio works? What are you learning about?VD: It was very intensive, it was very hard, but it was mostly Morse code. Lots
of drills, drills, drills on Morse code. And some on the teletype, but mainly the Morse code.EE: So you had to be able to interpret. They would have an oral exam, pop quiz,
and you had toVD: We had the earphones on and wed have to write down what we heard.
EE: What did you do for a social life during those five months? Did you have one
or did you have to staythe school was in the hotel?VD: Yes, in this awful old hotel. It wasnt anything. During time off I was on
00:23:00the boardwalk, just down the corner, and the steel pier, the old steel pier, and another pier. All kinds of goings-on. And I loved the ocean. I spent a lot of time, any time off, in the ocean, when the weather was good.We had a hurricane while stationed there that destroyed the steel pier and we
were all very busy helping out on that. I remember walking with telegrams because you had to walk when the water went down. The water was so high, it was up to like the second story of our hotel. The fellas were diving off the railings into the water. It was really severe. That kept us busy. And no, I didnt go out. I didnt have any social life. But I just enjoyed the girls I was with. We had fun.EE: So you did hang out with the other women who were there?
VD: Oh, yes.
EE: A lot of folks Ive talked with, thats sort of what they did. They would
just kind of go in groups out together and do what-not.VD: Yes. We did a lot on the boardwalk, because there was a lot of entertainment
00:24:00out there.EE: Were you there through Christmas of 43, in Atlantic City?
VD: Oh, heavens. Let me think.
EE: That would have been your first Christmas away from home.
VD: Well, it was five months. I went in around May. So I must have been gone to
Port Angeles. Christmases were big at home, but I wasnt homesick. I was away several Christmases. Im trying to think if I got home after boot camp. I must have but it wouldnt have been Christmas time. I put in that book, how actually, Im not all that religious, but being Catholic, they used to have Latin masses, and wherever I was, I felt at home at church, because it was always the same. And that one time, the only time I was homesick, was the one time we had a storm 00:25:00on Christmas day. They dont get much snow in Port Angeles, Washington. They get rain. But it snowed and nothing moved. We couldnt get to church. So I felt on Christmas day - I didnt like that. Thats the only bad experience I can remember in the service.EE: Was that the first year you were out there, or the second? You spent two
VD: I was only in the service twenty months. So maybe that was the only
Christmas I was away.EE: When did you exit the service?
VD: Just before Christmas of
EE: Forty-four?
VD: Of the otherno, we were married in 46, so it must have been 45.
Forty-five, I did. And we were married in 46, soon after my husband got home. He got homeI got home before Christmas, he got home after Christmas, and then we were married that following May, which was 46. So I might have my date 00:26:00wrong, 43. I was only in twenty months.EE: So it would have been 44?
VD: Forty-four, yes.
EE: Let me ask you this, do you remember D-Day, and where you were when D-Day
was announced? Were you at basic then?VD: Thats the one in Europe, right? I remember VJ Day.
EE: Where were you?
VD: In Port Angeles. Yes, that was wonderful. We all piled in jeeps and went
right through the gate, they didnt stop us, and into town we were falling out of the jeeps, we were so yelling and screaming. I remember that real well. I dont know why I dont remember VD.EE: Ive talked to a lot of people thatthey said, the orders were, Come back
to base, and it was lock-down for VJ Day. They were so terrified, I think, that people were going to party uncontrollably.VD: Port Angeles was a real little town in those days. You couldnt do much partying.
00:27:00EE: Do you remember where you were when President [Franklin D.] Roosevelt passed
away? I guess you were at Port Angeles?VD: Yes. I must have been.
EE: Were you working that day?
VD: I dont remember. I remember being very sad about it, but I dont remember
where I was or what I was doing.EE: What did you think of President Roosevelt, and Mrs. [Eleanor] Roosevelt, for
that matter?VD: I liked them both.
EE: She got no small amount of flak for being an outspoken First Lady, and doing
things that other First Ladies had never done before and traveling around the country. I just didnt know -VD: Yes, I thought she was a good, strong person.
EE: I think you placed third in this particular class of radio?
VD: Yes, I did well. I did good in radio school.
EE: So did they ask you again where youd like to go for an assignment, at that stage?
00:28:00VD: They may have given us a choice, yes, of areas.
EE: And it sounds like maybe this time they listened to you a little bit better
than the first time.VD: Yes, right.
EE: At Port Angeles, what are your housing accommodations? Is there a dormitory
for women?VD: No, let me think. Yes, yes. We had our own dorm. It was a very nice one,
actually. It was a nice building. We had like a living room downstairs to greet men if we had a date or anything, and it was nice. It wasnt crummy like the Atlantic City hotel. It was just a two-story, small dorm, for the few of us that were there.EE: Was Port Angeles, where you were at, was it a military base before the war,
or just something for wartime? Do you remember? 00:29:00VD: I would think that would have already been there, because it wasnt that
brand new.EE: It was a pretty strategic location, I would think, right there.
VD: Yes, it was five miles out, on a little strip.
EE: And of course, the property values out there now would be just through the
roof, Im sure.VD: I guess. I dont know. It wasnt swimming area, though. I was always looking
for swimming places. It wasnt water to swim in.EE: Too cold, too strong a current?
VD: Both. Yes, rocks. It just wasnt presentable for swimming or Id have been in.
EE: I talked with one woman who was in the WAVES [Women Accepted for Volunteer
Emergency Service], and she never knew how to swim but she joined the WAVES, and she had to protest that, you know, well, They wont let me do anything but sit at a desk. Im not going to be on a ship.VD: No, thats right.
EE: What was your day-to-day work like when you were at Port Angeles? What was a
typical day like for you?VD: Well, I went to the, I guess, youd call the office, and we donned our
00:30:00headphones. We listened to planes and ships and we did a lot of teletyping, sent messages through the teletype.EE: Was your work then primarily monitoring, as opposed to communicating with people?
VD: We did both, actually. We communicated.
EE: Were you steering traffic through the area into the port?
VD: No, we were getting messages from the planes and from the ships, sending
them on with teletype or with the radio.EE: I dont remember when the Aleutians were freed, although that wasnt too far
from where the Aleutians were under contest. Was that port a resupply place forwas it Coast Guard and [U.S.] Navy ships or just Coast Guard? 00:31:00VD: We had one submarine come in. We didnt have many ships come in, really.
Submarine was a big deal for us, to have that in. It was mostly the planes, the PBYs, the PBMs, that was their main duties.EE: And most of the communication with the planes is by Morse code or by radio, voice
VD: By Morse code.
EE: Did you work eight-hour shifts, twelve-hour shifts?
VD: Eight hours.
EE: Five days a week, six? What was it?
VD: I dont remember if it was five or six. I know we had Sunday off. I think we
probably only worked five. It wasnt too grueling at all.EE: Okay. So you were pleased with it. And I guess giving reports to folks back
home and overseas with V-Mail and whatever you could communicate with. You were 00:32:00at Port Angeles then til the time that you left the service, just before Christmas in 45.VD: No, I had one stint in Empire, Oregon. There was something going on down
there and some of us were sent for, oh, maybe it was only three months, Empire, Oregon.EE: And then you went back to Port Angeles?
VD: To Port Angeles, yes.
EE: So that was just a temporary position?
VD: Yes.
EE: And Empire, was that also a Coast Guard base?
VD: Oh, yes.
EE: And similar kind of work you were doing there?
VD: Yes.
EE: There were only 10,000 SPARS in the whole country. How many women were
stationed with you at Port Angeles?VD: Port Angeles, I would guess only betweenits the same number I said for the
radio school. Just about thirty.EE: Were you doing work before the war, [work] men would have done? Were you all
00:33:00freeing men to fight?VD: I would have thought so, yes. I mean, they called us radiomen. They
couldnt do that today.EE: Radiopersons, I guess.
VD: Right, right.
EE: The people who were working with you, did you everI know some folks who
were in jobs that literally freed folks to fight, they were not always welcomed with opened arms, because what that meant is that another woman might come and take their job, and send them off to the front. Did you have any resistance or anybody say anything to you?VD: Not that I saw or heard, no. The men were very friendly on base, anyhow.
EE: Treated you with professional courtesy?
VD: Yes. They were very good. We never got anythe little while I was in, I
didnt get any negative feeling from people.EE: You got married after your husband-to-be came home in 46. When you were at
00:34:00the base, what did you all do for social life? Was there a town that you went into, or was there dances and things?VD: We went into Port Angeles. They didnt have dances for us. There was one
little theater there. Im an outdoor person. We went up into the mountains and hiked. I remember swimming across a lake and back, without any boat, which was stupid. Mixed groups, though. We went up into the mountains and had snow parties and yeah, I went out at night. I went out, and drank, and danced and stuff.EE: Were they pretty good in keeping you informed of what was going on in the
war? Did you get some sort of a regular newsletter or something about whats happening in different places?VD: No, Im afraid they didnt, or I didnt see it. I wasnt all that good. I
mean, I was just really having a good time.EE: You were all of twenty-one.
VD: I know. And I enjoyed it. I got letters from my husband-to-be all the time.
00:35:00EE: Were most of the people you were working with about your age, or were you
young for thatVD: No, they were all young. My friends were young. All the ones I was with at
Port Angeles, because Ive remained friends with many of them and were all about the same age.EE: Now, how old would your supervisors be? Late twenties, early thirties?
VD: The men, let me think. Maybe a little older than that. Of course, when
youre young, you think everybodys old.EE: Thats right. If theyre thirty, theyre over the hill.
VD: Yes, right. Id say a little bit older than that.
EE: Did you have women supervisors at your work at Port Angeles, or were your
supervisors men?VD: We had a few women, but mostly men.
EE: What rank were you when you left the service?
VD: Third class.
EE: Third class radioman?
VD: Yes. I was studying for my second class, and I was almost there, but then
00:36:00the war was over and I was out.EE: So you never thought about making the military a career?
VD: No, I didnt, because my husband didnt, you know. My boyfriend didnt think
about it. We were anxious to get together and knew he was going to be home soon. All I wanted to dowe wanted to go to college, both of us.EE: They told you about the GI Bill, I guess, since you were in, didnt they?
VD: Yes. And I couldnt afford college before it, and Chuckmy husbandhad had
almost three years, so we wanted to go to college when we got out, and knew we could afford it then. But unfortunately, or fortunately, I got pregnant. In those days, you didnt continue on with college plans. You buckled down. He never even finished, which was a shame. Our kids came fast and furious, we had a new home. In those days, the men buckled down and worked, the women took care of the children.EE: How many children did you all have?
00:37:00VD: We have eight.
EE: Wonderful, wonderful.
VD: And they came fast. I mean, the first one was eleven months after we were
married, and then the next one was a year after that, and the next one was two years after that.EE: I guess, because in some sense, you all were planning a life together before
you even went in, the transition out of the military was not a difficult one for you.VD: No, it wasnt. I went back to Eastman Kodak, and when I got pregnant, you
kind of keep it a secret for a while, and then you leave, when it starts to show. Even in business.EE: I did read that, later in life, you went back and got a degree yourself.
VD: Yes, I finally did. I always wanted to.
EE: Thats wonderful. My sister is trying right now well shes not trying
shes going do it. Shes one semester away from getting her nurses degree and shes thirty-six and went back to school.VD: Well, I just graduated in 90, so you see how old I was.
EE: Thats great. What was the hardest thing for you during your time in the
00:38:00service, either physically or emotionally?VD: I didnt have a hard time. Like I said, the only thing I can remember was
not going to church on Christmas. That was the only thing that sticks in my mind. I enjoyed it very much. I thought boot camp was hard but it was fun. I made friends and I dont know, I just thought it was allI feel guilty about it, because I thoughtI was having a ball.EE: Youre not the first person Ive heard that from. They had too good a time,
and they know other folks did not have.VD: Right.
EE: Did you ever worry about Chuck and where he was, because Im sure he didnt
tell you where he was. He couldnt, could he?VD: Well, I knew he was in New Guinea, and he was building. He wasnt in a
dangerous area. No, everyone knew about Chuck, and knew when Id get a letter. That was no secret. Of course I was engaged. But he didnt, wasnt very afraid 00:39:00of the war. He was close to it. He saw a little, not action, but he heard bombs and things like that, because theyd go in first and build airstrips and that type of thing. Barracks.EE: But they would do that after the area was secured, then they build an infrastructure.
VD: So he didnt have a very dangerous job.
EE: You yourself, being far away from homebut you sound independent, so I dont
get the sense that you were ever physically in danger or afraid during your time in the service, were you?VD: No, I wasnt.
EE: When you think back, and you meet lots of interesting characters anytime you
go into the service because youre mixing in people from all over, with all different backgroundsethnic, faith, geography. Are there some characters that stand out in your mind, that you encountered during your time in the service? 00:40:00VD: I dont think so. I mean -
EE: That usually means youre the character.
VD: Right. I was the character. We had just such a small amount of girls on
base, and we got along. I mean, I dont remember anybody being a real character. The guys were real nice, too. They were very nice to us.EE: Is there a Coast Guard song or something thats done
VD: Oh, yes. Semper Paratus.
EE: What is the song? Can you hum a few bars?
VD: [hums] Lets see if I can think of it. We marched to it enough. [hums] I
cant think of it. Semper Paratus is our name. Im sorry, I cant.EE: Thats something that I can never get a reading, is what the tunes were. I
00:41:00had somebody sing WAVES of the Navy, and I havent heard the Coast Guard song.VD: Im thinking of it, because we used to sing it all the time, of course, and
march to it. [hums] Cant even get any words out. Im sorry. I dont know. If should have got my album out, maybeEE: Are there other songs or movies you see on AMC [American Movie Classics (TV
channel)] or something that when you hear or see, take you back to that time, whether its your song or a song that reminds you of a place? Is there anything like that for you?VD: Oh, the only thing that reminds me of that era is the big band songs. We
used to jitterbug and all that type of thing.EE: Did you swing and sway with Sammy Kaye?
VD: Yes, right.
00:42:00EE: What was your most embarrassing moment? For some people thatscan you
remember an embarrassing moment that someone else had?VD: No. I remember once riding around on a bike without my hat and they caught
me out of uniform. I thought that was silly. During the war, what did they care if I had a hat on our not [on a bike]?EE: Youre stateside and youre out in the community with a uniform on. What was
the general reaction to a woman in uniform?VD: In Port Angeles? Oh, very good, very good. As I said, it was so small. Its
a great, busy place now. We went back there and I would never have known it. But you asked what we did. I remember doing a lot of traveling, as much as we could. The fellows would take us up in the planes if we had some time off, one time they flew us to Mt. Ranier for a vacation. I flew almost every day on the base. 00:43:00The fellows would let us go up in their PBYs and PBMs or a trainer planes. I also took ferries to Victoria and Vancouver.EE: Butchart Gardens that are up there?
VD: I know that I saw those. I dont think I saw them in the service. I saw them
when we went back on a trip.EE: Yes, my folks went to see them and said they were great.
VD: Beautiful, beautiful.
EE: Was that base there a training station that they were teaching pilots?
[Tape recorder turned off. Answer to question was yes.]
VD: I forgot about all the fun we had. Going up into the rain forest and the
Olympic Mountains. I didnt lack for things to do, but I was in a little difficulty because I didnt have much money. Sending partial [dependency money] to my mom left me [very little money] but as I said, the fellows would fly us to where we were going, and a lot of the [fun] things I did didnt cost money. 00:44:00EE: If youre out there enjoying nature, it doesnt cost a lot to [?]. The
reason I ask about what they didI know some people were stationed at, I guess what were naval air stations, where they were training folks. Also, was this group doingthe flyers going out and doing coast patrol, where they were checking for enemies out on the coast, because there was always some concern about what the Japanese might be doing.VD: Gee, youd think Id have known what they were doing. It seems to me it was
mostly training. Whether they were doing that type of thing, Im not quite sure. I remember onceyou asked about a bad moment. We had a crash in the mountains and I was on duty and could see the plane burning in the mountains. I kept wondering if they were trying to get a hold of me. I felt badly about that. Because we had mountains all around, but you see the flames from that, and that was bad. I never did learn about it. 00:45:00EE: Where you were, you didnt really have as much interaction with the war
aspect, as far as suffering and pain, it sounds like. That was one of things that made it enjoyable for you, is that you were with good people who were doing good things. By being stateside, too, you probably have a better insight than some of our folks into what the mood of the country was like, being right there in a small town. Do you think that people were more patriotic back then?VD: Oh, yes, I think so. Yes, definitely.
EE: By the time you joined in 44, the tide of war had turned in our favor,
although I think at the Battle of the Bulge, people were still concerned what might happen. Do you think anybody was ever concerned, or did you hear anybody concerned, that we would not win the war?VD: No, I think people were more positive than that. Pearl Harbor scared
everybody, I guess, didnt it? That they could do that. 00:46:00EE: And if the Japanese had known how much damage they did, they would have
really scared us, because they didnt really monopolizethey had the army surpassed.VD: There was some unrest after that. People were worried after the Japs bombed.
That was getting too close.EE: When you think back to that time, do you have any people who, for you, are
heroes or heroines, from the war?VD: I guess I dont know my history very well. No, I cant think of anybody outstanding.
EE: Im just thinking of folks that you knew who did good things that were
unusuallyyou came back and your husband had a career with Kodak. What was he?VD: He was a draftsman.
EE: Draftsman for them.
00:47:00[End Tape 1, Side ABegin Tape 1, Side B]
EE: You all moved back to Rochester and stayed in the Rochester area til he retired?
VD: Yes, we did. Until we were sixty.
EE: They have invested so much in that area, Kodak, and its just wonderful, the
benevolence they have in the community. And then you decided to come south, for some reason.VD: Well, we had done a lot of traveling, looking around, not especially wanting
to relocate, but to see the country. We took some elder hostels to find out which area we liked, we went to Pinehurst, which is on the coast of North Carolina, we liked it there, but I didnt like the surrounding area. The complex was beautiful. It had lakes, trees and all, but the surrounding area was too flat. So the fellow we were staying with at the bed and breakfast said, Sounds like you folks would like the mountains. He had traveled a lot. So we took two elder hostels down in this area, looked around and liked this part of North Carolina.EE: Did any of your children ever join the military?
VD: Yes. Our oldest son, were real proud of him. He was in the ROTC [Reserve
Officer Training Corps], and in his dayhes fifty-two nowin his day, the campuses were in unrest, you know. There were a lot of problems. He had to work his way through, like all our kids did. He wasnt causing any problems on campus. He was busy studying, getting his moneys worth. He became an officer and made it a career.He just retired about three years ago, as a lieutenant colonel. Now he has a
civilian job. He was working as the housing director for the Aleutian Islands, and flying into those little islands. It was very dangerous, and he resigned from that. Then he took another position, 600 miles north of his home in Palmer, Alaska, up in Kotzebue, which I didnt like at all. He said hed only work there a couple years and hes been there two and a half, and just resigned, to be with his family. It was a big job, though.EE: So hes still in Alaska?
VD: Yes. Oh, they have a home in Alaska and they have a home in Hawaii. Theyve
had a good life in the service, very good life. Hes got two nice children and a 00:48:00great wife. The only time theyve ever been separated is when he took this job up in Kotzebue for big bucks.EE: This is the army hes in?
VD: Yes.
EE: Did any of your daughters ever think about joining?
VD: No, I dont believe any of them even gave it a thought.
EE: Would you have supported them if they wanted to join the military?
VD: Oh, sure. I support them whatever they want to do.
EE: You know, we now haveI guess this is the difference betweenone of the big
differences between World War II and now, with the military, is that women can do so many more things in the military. Theyre allowed to do more. Last December, for the first time, the United States sent a woman combat pilot into action, in Iraq. How do you feel about that? Are there some things in the military that women should not be allowed to do?VD: Id hate to see one captured. That would be my thought. But otherwise, they
00:49:00could do all the work and all the jobs. Im sure they can fly and all the rest of it. I just think about prisoners of war. I wouldnt like to see a woman in that position.EE: Some folks have said that, as a society, that probably one of the big things
that happened after World War IIthe world changes a lot, but in our country, the fact that so many women were entering the workforce, side by side with men, like you there in the radio office, showed that women could do a lot more things than what they had been doing beforehand, in the workforce. Do you think that your kind of work helped, was a trailblazing kind of work, the fact that they would let women into those positions?VD: Well, probably all of the work that the women did in the service, that was
different for them, helped. However, when the men came back, a lot of the women had to leave because they were taking their jobs. And the men, most of them, 00:50:00were guaranteed their work. So they came back and a lot of women got out of the factories at that point. They did their duty. But a lot of them [women] now are doing things like that, mens jobs.EE: When you look backyou were in for twenty monthshow did your life change
because of your time in the military?VD: It didnt change at all. We went right back to being engaged and getting
married and working at Eastman Kodak.EE: It was for you a parentheses. It was a wonderful time
VD: It was.
EE: but it really didnt impact you.
VD: My other friends at Kodak office, really, they were a sad bunch of women.
Wed go out to movies or something together, but half of them were crying over their husbands or boyfriends pictures and were very sad. I wasnt happy being 00:51:00alone, but I did something about it. Thats the story of my life. If somethings wrong, I try to do something about it. And that was it for me. I really hate to say I enjoyed the war years. I was concerned about death and all, but I think I contributed, being a radioman. In the meantime I was having a great time.EE: You talked about your husband was reluctant to see you in uniform. Have you
shared with yourI guess your family knows a lot more about your time, thanks to Mr. McDermotts books and stuff. Were they interested in your service?VD: Well, I think they were, although I haventthis article in here, I sent to
the kids. Theres pieces of papers. I havent bought anybody a book, nor have they asked. Theyre all pretty busy people, with their own families. I didnt 00:52:00expect them to be. Yes, they said that enlightened them. There were a lot of things I had never said before. So yes, they enjoyed reading it.EE: The question that, of course people ask at different stages of their life
which has absolutely no value, but occasionally we ask it anyway - if you had it to do over again, would you?VD: Oh, yes, in a minute. Right. I would have.
EE: Well, I appreciate you letting me into the life of a SPAR.
VD: Its not too exciting.
EE: Thats a strange title, isnt it? Semper Paratus. They didnt want to be an
auxiliary so they named them something else.VD: I guess.
EE: But thats good. Do you keep in contact with any of the other women who you
served with?VD: I have, but unfortunately, some of them have died or are quite sick. Yes,
weve taken four trips across country, and I dont know if it was the first or second trip, I stopped in to see several of them. One especially, was a really good friend of mine. Ive seen her twice. In fact, Ive seen a couple of them 00:53:00twice. But we never stayed. Id always call after we got to a motel, but thats what I do when traveling. And they seemed really pleased, because we still keep in touch at Christmas. We all send to each othernot all, but the ones that I know. And so when I went cross country, I saw, oh, I cant tell you how many, but at least ten [ex-SPARs].EE: Thats good. For most of the women who were in during World War II, unless
they personally made an effort to keep in contact, theres been no organized effort to keep them connected with the service.VD: Well, theyve had these reunions, which Id never gone to. I almost went to
one. I could never afford it, to tell you the truth, when I had the kids. With one of my best friends there. I almost made one, but I never did, so I think they [Coast Guard] made a little effort that way, with the reunions. But they are expensive. Youd go to Washington or something and the rooms would be over $100 a night and all, and I couldnt afford it. 00:54:00EE: They always find the most expensive hotels to have them in. Well, on behalf
of the school, and myself, for a very enjoyable morning, I want to say thank you, and well be glad to get this back to you.VD: All right. Did you want to see the pictures?
EE: Yes.
[End of Interview]
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