00:00:00WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECT
ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
INTERVIEWEE: Louise Nash Dorsett
INTERVIEWER: Hermann J. Trojanowski
DATE: January 18, 1999
[Begin Interview]
HT: [Today is January] 18, 1999, Im at the home of Mrs. Louise Nash Dorsett to
conduct an interview for the Women Veterans Historical Collection.
Mrs. Dorsett, thank you so much for meeting with me this afternoon. We really
appreciate this. And if you could, just tell me some basic biographical
information about yourself, such as your name, your hometown, a little bit about
your family, the dates of your military service, and about the age that you
entered, and your rank.
LD: Well, I was born in Boulder, Colorado. My father was a hydroelectric
engineer. He was a Missourian, a graduate of the University of Missouri, and my
mother was a schoolteacher. We came to North Carolina when I was two and a half
00:01:00years old, and have been here ever since. Weve lived in Mt. Gilead, [North
Carolina] since 1927. My father was superintendent of the hydroelectric plant
which formed Lake Tillery, [North Carolina]. I graduated from high school in Mt.
Gilead. We had twenty-five members of that class, it was a small school, and I
dated the guy I finally married in high school. Then I went to Queens [College,
in Charlotte, North Carolina] for one year, but it was Depression time and all
the other girls had money and I didnt, so that was notI made good grades but I
didnt have any social life. I transferred to UNCG [University of North Carolina
at Greensboro], graduated there in 1934, with a major in English and a minor in history.
HT: Well, thats wonderful. And you say you went to high school here at Mt. Gilead?
LD: Yes.
HT: What was the name of the high school, do you recall?
LD: Mt. Gilead High School, which is no more.
00:02:00
HT: Oh, no more? [chuckling] And you mentioned that you had graduated from UNCG,
what is now UNCG, in 1934. Of course, at that time it was called Womans College.
LD: Womans College. Womans College of the University of North Carolina.
HT: Right. Do you recall some of the fun things you did while you were at UNCG?
LD: No, not particularly. I was kind of a bookworm. I made fairly good grades. I
had a high B average when I graduated. But any fun things we did were the kind
that didnt cost money, because that was Depression, nobody had any money, and
none of my friends did. And mainly it was just being with friends. And, oh, I
did in my junior year learn to smoke. It nearly killed me but I learned. And I
guess thats it.
HT: Do you recall the trolley along Spring Garden Street in those days?
LD: Yes.
HT: Did you ever take the trolley downtown?
LD: No, we always walked. Spring Garden Street was a little far over for me
00:03:00because I was rooming way down in the quadrangle.
HT: Do you recall which dormitory you were in?
LD: My last year I was in Gray [Residence Hall]. I had been in West [Residence
Hall], but they closed that because of lack of students. Then I went to Shaw.
No, it wasnt Shaw. Anyway, it was the one at the head of the quadrangle where
Miss Killy [Lillian Killingsworth], the dean of students who had everybody
pretty well cowed lived, and I lived across the hall from her. But I got along
with her.
HT: What was dorm life like at that time, do you recall?
LD: Well, it wasnt as it is now.
HT: Im sure its quite different.
LD: Of course, the GC [Greensboro College] girls thought we were just wild as
bucks because we had so many privileges they didnt.
HT: Now you said GC girls. Those are Greensboro College girls?
LD: Yeah. The Womans College girls would go downtown without hats and gloves
00:04:00and high-heel shoes, just in our regular clothes, and walk. And the Greensboro
College girls, we thought they were a bunch of high-hats. And said so rather audibly.
HT: [chuckling] Oh, mercy.
LD: By the way, may I digress just a moment?
HT: Sure.
LD: You did not know anybody at GC named Debra Cates, Dr. Cates?
HT: No.
LD: I dont know what she teaches. Shes a former student of mine at West
Montgomery High School. She must teach in the education department. Now we can
00:05:00go back.
HT: Okay. I understand that in the school year of 1932 to 1933 there were some
men on campus.
LD: Oh yes.
HT: And the reason the men were there was because of the Depression, and the men
could not afford to go to out-of-town schools. Do you recall that?
LD: That is part of it. The men could not affordnow some of those men turned
out to be quite wealthy and from leading families. But they could have afforded
probably to go out of town to school better than Womans College could not
afford to let them go out of town. We were suffering because of lack of
enrollment. Because when I graduated, we didnt have but fourteen hundred students.
HT: For the entire college?
LD: Yes. There were three hundred and some in my class. Oh, Ill tell you, it
was rough.
HT: Those were rough days. Do you have any particular memories of the early
Depression days, from the early thirties?
LD: Yes. I was very fortunate. My father was a salaried person and kept his job.
He just got cut 25 percent of his salary. But most of the people around here, if
00:06:00it hadnt been for the government programs, would have been in dire straits. My
husbands family lost a farm, a house, and a store. They were destitute for a
while. But he did not leave Duke University [Durham, North Carolina], he just
worked his way through.
HT: Do you recall what academic life was like when you were at Womans College?
LD: I dont know what it was like for everybody, but with certain professors I
had a very, very good rapport. Now Miss [Harriet] Elliott [dean of women] I
adored. Miss [Bernice] Draper I adored. She was hard but I liked her. I loved
Dr. Leonard Hurley and Mr. A.C. Hall. They were my very favorites. There were a
few I could have cared less for.
HT: Do you care to mention who they might be?
LD: No.
00:07:00
HT: [chuckling] Okay. Well, since were talking about various people on the
Womans College campus during that time, do you recall Dr. Walter Clinton Jackson?
LD: Dr. Jackson was at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill at the
time I was there. Dr. [Julius] Foust was the president. And Dr. Jackson, I think
I missed probably one of the brightest times of my life by missing Dr. Jackson.
HT: I understand he was an absolutely wonderful person, and adored by everybody.
LD: Yeah, and I didnt
HT: How about Dr. Foust? How do you remember him?
LD: Cold. I dont know, he was just not, to me, an appealing person at all.
00:08:00
HT: I guess today you would say he was not a people person.
LD: Definitely not a people person.
HT: You mentioned Miss Elliott earlier, and she, of course, is really famous in
a number of areas. Can you give us some thoughts about her?
LD: Well, I was in her class at the time of the New Deal, and of course she was
a hot Democrat and a personal friend of President [Franklin D.] Roosevelt, so we
got filled in on that. It came back later when I was in Washington in the navy.
She was on leave of absence in the Treasury Department, and at that time you
could walk through Lafayette Square, and several times we would meet in
Lafayette Square in the afternoons and shed tell me what was going on at the
school. She was that kind of a person. Very, very highly regarded, and very warm
and friendly, but never lost that teacherShe never crossed that thin line that
separates a teacher from a student, which is a great thing.
00:09:00
HT: Thats wonderful. Do you recall anything in particular about Dr. Anna Gove
[Womans College physician]?
LD: No, I didnt know Dr. Gove. I dodged her if I could. I dont know why, but
she justthey just thought she was kind of [cold]. The other doctor there was
the one if Iwhen I had something wrong, I went to.
HT: And who was that?
LD: I cant think of her name.
HT: Okay. And do you recall anything in particular about Miss Clara Booth Byrd,
who was the alumnae secretary?
LD: No, not when I was in school. Maybe a little bit when I went back. Miss Byrd
was the typical, at that time, old maid alumnae secretary. She was, I think, as
00:10:00typical a spinster as ever lived, just as sweet as she could be. I dont know
how much she had in the upper story, but she was sweet.
HT: Did you ever meet Miss Katherine Taylor?
LD: Yes. I did not have her for a class. I forget now where she was. She may
have beenthe year I was there, the years, I did see her. I know she taught
French. But, right after I was promoted to lieutenant senior grade in the navy,
I saw her at Allies Inn in Washington. She had just gone into service, and she
was a lieutenant junior grade. That is the first, last, and only time I ever
outranked Katherine Taylor, because it couldnt be done.
HT: [chuckling] I understand that she was quite a person.
00:11:00
LD: Very warm, very bright, very energetic, and knew what she was doing.
HT: Did you ever have any meetings or anything with Mary Channing Coleman? I
think she was in phys ed.
LD: No! No, no, no, no. The roommate I had in my sophomore year was a physical
education major, and I heard enough about how hard and rough Miss Coleman was
from her. But she built that physical education department.
HT: Yes.
LD: No doubt about it.
HT: Thats true.
LD: And physical education and I were not on the best of terms.
HT: And why was that?
LD: I just didnt like it. It was interrupting things I thought were more important.
HT: I see. Did you ever meet Dr. McIvers wife, Mrs. Lula McIver?
LD: No, not that I can recall.
HT: Well, I think Ive asked you quite a few questions about your days at
Womans College, and I want to go right into some of your service-related
00:12:00questions. Of course, you graduated in 1934. And when did you enter the WAVES
[Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency ServiceNavy]?
LD: Well, I was accepted, I guess, conditionally in late August of 42, and then
was told that I would be called to active duty in October. See, at this time
there were just thirty-five WAVES in uniform.
HT: So you were one of the first WAVES?
LD: I was in the firstIll get to that. And then I was toldI was notified.
Finally, I was sworn in on October 31 of 42, to report to Mount Holyoke College
[in South Hadley, Massachusetts] on November 10. The reason for the delay was
Mount Holyoke wasnt ready for us. Now, those who were being accepted as
midshipmen went to Smith [College, in Northampton, Massachusetts], but I was
accepted as a probationary officer. I dont know why, thats just the way it
00:13:00was. Therefore, I went to Mount Holyoke, and we were there for five weeks. We
didnt know how long we were going to be there or what, but we were there for
five weeks. I got my rank established on December 16 and left. And I was one of
the first ones to get orders, and I was ordered to the Bureau of Ships in
Washington, [D.C.,] to report on December 23.
HT: Do you recall anything about yourI guess youd call it basic training,
00:14:00those five weeks?
LD: No, we called it indoctrination. Yes, it was rigid. We walked and we walked
and we marched. I learned to march. And I was the short gal, so I had to walk at
the end of the line and keep up. But then we had a lot of class work and then a
lot of lectures. The interesting thing was so many of our teachers were almost
as new to the navy as we were. The men, only the few men we had, had any
experience in the navy. I know my favorite teacher, who turned out to be a
friend of mine later, was in that first class, and she taught naval history. So
it was quite an experience. If wed have been men, it would have separated the
00:15:00men from the boys. I wondered why I was in it, because everyone I met was quite
bright. I think we had one, and Im not too sure who, was taken out of there
immediatelyshe was a math and physics geniusand sent to MIT [Massachusetts
Institute of Technology] right now. I think she became an admiral before it was
over. That may have been Grace Hopper [computer pioneer], but Im not sure. And
while I was in indoctrination school, the SPARs [Coast Guard Womens Reserve,
from Sempar ParatusAlways Ready], the Coast Guard women, was formed, and some
of our people took commissions in the SPARs instead of the navy.
HT: Why did you choose to remain in the navy, as opposed to
LD: Well, I guess the reason was my brother was in the navy.
HT: I see. So that was one of the reasons you went in the service in the first
place, I guess?
LD: One of the reasons I went in was that everybody I dated was in service. The
00:16:00guy that I married was in the army, an army officer, his brother was in the
navy, and my brother was in the navy. In fact, he went to Annapolis, [Maryland],
for three months.
HT: Now when you first decided to go in, did you have any opposition from
friends and family, or parents?
LD: I dont think I brooked any. I just informed them.
HT: So your parents did not have to sign for you or anything like that?
LD: Oh, no, no, no, because I was older. In fact, my father was in Colorado when
I decided.
HT: What type of work did you do when you went in the service? I meant before
you went in the service?
LD: Well, I taught school, I didnt like that, so I worked for Carolina Power
and Light Company for six years, and was in, of coursethat was a dead-end job,
00:17:00and I went from there into the navy. However, my Carolina Power and Light
Company experience landed me what I would like to do in the navy. In other
words, I was no engineer, but I knew some terminology, enough that I could
replace a guy. And I did.
HT: So you actually replaced somebody who was freed for combat, I guess.
LD: Yes. Yes, I did.
HT: How did you feel about that? Did you have any problems knowing
LD: No, he wanted to go, he was ready, and we were very close friends. In fact,
I get a Christmas note from his wife every year. He died a few years ago, but I
get a Christmas note from her every year.
HT: The climate at that time, Im talking about the mood of the country, was
quite different than it is today. I think people were
LD: There was nothing of the Let somebody else do it, lackadaisicalwe were
00:18:00together. Everybody was doing something. Some might be Rosie the Riveter, but
it all depended. But almost everybody was doing somethingtrying, at any rate.
HT: Do you particularly recall why you entered the service, why you wanted to
enter the service?
LD: I had my mind made up that I wanted to. For one thing, I was in a dead-end
job, where if you were a man you had a chance, but a woman didnt. And that
bothered me. So I looked at the WAC and decided I didnt want that, and so as
soon as the navy came, then I applied. I liked the idea of equal pay for equal work.
HT: Was that common in those days for women to feel that way?
LD: No. No, I dont think so. [chuckling] Im not sure. I think most of us who
00:19:00went in the navy felt that way, that we wanted to do what we could, and the navy
or the services were the place because they recognized that sex didnt control
your salary. And another thing, too, I made more money.
HT: You made more money in the WAVES than you did in Carolina Power?
LD: Than I did at Carolina Power and Light Company.
HT: And you mentioned Carolina Power and Light. Where was that?
LD: That was in Raleigh, [North Carolina].
HT: In Raleigh? And when you were indoctrinated into the navy, where did you go
to for that?
LD: Well, I had my physical in Charleston, [South Carolina], and then I was the
first WAVE officer indoctrinated in Raleigh, out at North Carolina State
[University]. I think another gal came along about five minutes later, but I was
the first one, the first WAVE officer.
HT: And your indoctrination was quite different, I guess, being an officer, than
00:20:00it would have been if youd been an enlisted person.
LD: I guess so. Oh yeah, Im sure it was, but I dont know. I worked with a lot
of enlisted girls. In fact, before I left there I worked with officers, male and
female, enlisted, male and female, civilian, male and female, black and white.
HT: That was quite something novel, I guess.
LD: Well, the one thing I learned thats stood me in good stead: if I had any
racial prejudice, I lost it. I had none when I got out.
HT: Thats quite interesting for that period of time.
LD: Well, thats the main reason I went into teaching. They needed somebody, and
I taught history at West Montgomery for eleven years. Id never taught history a
day in my life. I hadnt taught in thirty-some years. So the first year I taught
00:21:00the book, and after that I could teach the course. But they were just
integrating here, and I knew it could work. All you had to do was just treat
folks like human beings, and it works.
HT: You said you entered the service in Raleigh. Do you recall your first day,
either in Raleigh or I think you went on and you were indoctrinated in
Charleston. So do you recall what you did during that time?
LD: No, in Charleston was where I had my physical.
HT: Oh, sorry. And then you were transferred up to Mount Holyoke, is that correct?
LD: Yeah, then went on the train to Mount Holyoke, and we got up there about
seven oclock one night. Id been on the train, and Id stopped in New York and
00:22:00called a friend, and she had told me thatthis is maybe beside the point, that
the fellow I was dating mosta high school classmateand we had dated off and on
since we were in high school, had not gone over. He was with the 2nd Armored
Division, and they had gone over, but [General George] Patton had left him
behind to supervise the loading in Brooklyn. If the invasion of Africa went one
way, he was to load one way, and if it went another wayand he didnt trust the
Port of Embarkation folks, so he leftand so said he was still here, and said,
Give him your address. He wants to get in touch with you. So the second week
that I was in indoctrination school I went down to New York for the weekend, and
we decided, if possible, to get married before he left.
HT: This was Mr. [Howard] Dorsett?
LD: Yes. He was Lieutenant Dorsett at the time. So, we were supposed to get
00:23:00married in Washington, and by [Presbyterian minister] Dr. Peter Marshall. He
couldnt get to Washington. We were supposed to get married in New York, and a
friend was calling [Methodist minister] Dr. Ralph Sockman, but he couldnt get
to Manhattan the day that we were to be married. So I met him in Staten Island
and found out it was in a different county, and we had to be married in Staten
Island. Can you imagine, Staten Island, with an Italian cabdriver, finding a
Protestant minister? But we did. We found a little Methodist church, were
married there, but we had to wait forty-five minutes for the ministers wife and
00:24:00daughter to come from grocery shopping so wed have witnesses. But that was it.
HT: Do you remember when that was?
LD: January 4, 1943. Weve been married fifty-six years.
HT: Wow. Thats wonderful. And then after you got married, was your husband
LD: I had to go back tooh, Ill have to tell you how I got to New York. I had
said something about it, that he was coming, and my then commanding officers
civilian secretary told him. And out at the scuttlebutt, the water fountain, one
day, he said, I hear
I said, Well, now Commander, I dont know whether I am or not. He cant get here.
He said, Well, I think you should go to New York.
I said, I dont know, how do you do that?
He said, Ill fix it.
So what he did was give me a route sheet with the explanation on it, and I had
to go from a lieutenant commander to the commander, to a captain, to the
admiral. That was the way I met the chain of command. When I got in the
admirals office and his ensign saidI showed that and he said, Well, youll
have to see the admiral. Scared me to death. It so happened that this admiral
00:25:00was a little bitty dried-up sort of a sour guy, and he looked at me and he says,
Young lady, you havent been here but a week! Which was true. I said, No,
Sir, but the explanations on the route slip. He looked at it, he looked at me,
he whipped out his pen and he initialed where he was supposed to, signed where
he was supposed to, stood up, pulled down his sleeve with all that gold braid,
held out his hand, and said, My sympathy and my congratulations. And thats
it. Thats always been a funny story that Iif anybody, I guess, had known the
00:26:00chain of command
HT: So it sounds like it was not an easy task to get permission to get married.
LD: Well, for somebody as close to civilian life as I was, and in the navy and
in my post for six days, to go through the chain of command to getno, it wasnt easy.
HT: How long had you known your husband prior to
LD: We graduated from high school together. We dated in high school, but it was
an on-and-offwell, he grew up but I didnt. I wasnt ready to settle down.
00:27:00
HT: Now, after you got married, you had to go back to your post, I assume?
LD: Oh yeah.
HT: And he had to do his thing, so you were
LD: He left for Africa a week later. Lets see, I had to go back to Washington
to work, but I had been up to New York that weekend, and I had taken the milk
train, one oclock [a.m.], along with all the Bainbridge boys, back to
Washington, to get back in time to go to work on Monday morning. He called me
Monday night, and I didnt see him or hear his voice again for thirty-three months.
HT: Thirty-three months?
LD: Yes. He was in Africa and Sicily, trained in England, and then Normandy,
[France], to Berlin, [Germany].
HT: What type of work did you do when you were in Washington, Mrs. Dorsett?
LD: Administrative, of a semi-technical nature. We had all of the requests for
material for the ships afloat filtered through me, and then I routed them to the
00:28:00proper technical desk.
HT: And you did that the entire time you were in the WAVES?
LD: Yes, and, of course, I wasI say I routed them, but we did it. We finally
had a section of about fifty-some people.
HT: And how long did you do this type of work?
LD: Well, for three years, til I got out. In fact, I was approached informally
about taking a spot promotion to lieutenant-commander, staying in, and cutting
that section down to size. I wasnt interested.
HT: Was this a very interesting type of work? Im sure it was very vital to the
war effort.
LD: It was at times, and it was puzzling at times, but it was challenging just
00:29:00to be able to read those things and get them to the right desk. Because you
didnt know whether you were looking at some kind of turbine or some kind of
condenser, whether it went to the one deskone place or another. Sometimes youd
make a mistake, too.
HT: Now, did you work only 8:00 to 5:00 on weekdays, or did you have unusual hours?
LD: Oh, no, no, no. We went to work at eight oclock, we got off when we could.
We worked six days a week, and we would have to work thirteen days straight to
get a Saturday off.
HT: Thats amazing. Wow!
LD: There one time we worked till nine oclock one nightthat was before the guy
whose place I took leftfiling the stuff that we hadnt had time to get to. It
00:30:00was piling in on us.
HT: Did you ever meet any interesting people while you worked in Washington?
LD: Well, I met a lot of interesting people, they have turned out to be since
then, but I did not meet any of the real notable people. Of course, I saw
President Roosevelt inaugurated from the window of one of the Bureau of Ships
buildings, because it was held on the portico, you know. That was the last one.
I was, of course there when he died. I watched all of that from the sidewalk. I
00:31:00met, but not formally, a lot of these folks. In fact one admiral stopped me as I
was going into the building one day and says, Young lady turn around. Im
admiral
[End Tape 1, Side ABegin Tape 1, Side B]
LD: they always put a higher-ranking officer in as titular head of this group.
And what they did toward the last was bring somebody in who had been out of the
country, who knew nothing about what we were doing. So he could sit there and
read the newspaper or whatever. But one of them came in, and I had, or we had,
00:32:00the most fantastic civilian girl, who was kind of the head of the office, who
knew what was going on perfectly. And he came to me one day and he said, Im
going to transfer So-and-so to Miss Smiths job and put Miss Smith somewhere
Well, the little girl he was going to transfer was one hed taken a shine to,
but she didnt know what was going on. Well, I knew what that would do, itd
just tear everything up, so I said, Commanderyou see, you dont buck emmay
I consider myself available for transfer? He said, Yes.
So I went down to personnel, Bureau of Ships personnel, and it so happened that
00:33:00the lady who had taught me in indoctrination school was head of WAVE personnel,
and I knew her. And then Bernie Koteen, the one I had seen as a week-old ensign,
was still the admirals aide. I went down and told her, Miss [Barry] ONeal
[Catholic University professor], Im available for transfer.
She said, Uh-oh! So she got on the telephone and she said, Bernie, Louise
Dorsetts down here and says shes available for transfer.
He said, Well see about that. And thats all. So I didnt know what was going
on til a senior captain called me in and said, Whats going on?
I said, I just asked to be transferred.
00:34:00
He said, More to it than that. If this was a bunch of men, wed settle that
thing right quick.
I said, Well, Captain, I cast aside every feminine prerogative when I entered
the navy. If Im supposed to be reprimanded, please go right ahead.
He said, "No, I didnt mean you. Then somebody told me just to sit back and
wait til Captain Avery, who was my former captain, got back.
Well, the upshot of the whole thing was that the office was not changed. This
guy who had tried to mess up the office was kicked upstairs. He was a commander,
was made captain and assigned to an attack-loaded transport, and I kept my job.
And I guess thats where I got this, I dont know. But it went on up, and I know
00:35:00when I left, went in civilian clothes down there, Captain Avery said, Now you
be sure and see this certain captain. Theres something in the offing for you.
He likes you. I dont know, I guess thats it. I guess because I was nervy, but
I went through the chain of command and I did it right. So my little gal didnt
get demoted and the cute little thing didnt get promoted, and all went on. But
it was interesting.
HT: That was interesting, yeah.
LD: If you had been in it, you would have
HT: Oh gosh, yeah.
LD: But I guess thats about it.
HT: Jumping backwards just a little bit, can you tell me something about your
basic training days when you were in indoctrination school, what your thoughts
00:36:00were about that?
LD: I accepted it. Frankly, since so much of my family was in service and Id
heard it from them, I accepted it and it didnt bother me. It was hard. But all
those other gals were doing it. If they could, I could. So that was just the way
we went through it. I made some wonderful friends.
HT: Did you keep those friends even after you left the service?
LD: Yes, two or three of them. Theyve died since then.
HT: Did you ever think about making the military a career?
LD: No. No, for the simple reason that I was married and was coming back to
North Carolina, and Howard wasnt going to make it a career. He couldnt wait to
00:37:00get back home.
HT: And since youd been away from each other so long, Im sure you wanted to
get back together and start a life together.
LD: Yes, we were ready.
HT: Well, do you feel you made a positive contribution to the war effort?
LD: Yes. I dont know, what I did was positive. It wasnt one of these jobs in
which you just sit around andbecause I watched some folks who were in
assignments that didnt have much work to do in the bureau, and they didnt seem
to want to get out. But I wanted to be doing something. That was my job. See, my
brother was reported missing in 43. He was lost on a submarine. And my husband
00:38:00was overseas with the 2nd Armored Division. I had things to do. I guess youd
call it today highly motivated.
HT: We touched on this just a little bit before, but many of the recruiting
posters of that time mentioned that women who joined the service could free a
man for combat.
LD: Well, I did.
HT: And I think you mentioned that thats one of the reasons that you did that.
LD: I dont think everybody did. I think they kept men from being pulled in,
they may not have freed one who was there. But I know one of my best friends was
in the Bureau of Yards and Docks, and she had a mans job. She didnt replace
anybody, but she just took a mans job that came up. A lot of them did that.
00:39:00
HT: And since this was a fairly new experience for a lot of women in those days,
do you think you were treated equally with men who had the same position as you did?
LD: By some people, yes. By some people, no. But the thing about it was,
Washington wasnt too crazy to have us. The old crowd, you know, the old navy crew
HT: The old boys club.
LD: The old boys club, the ones who wore the old school tie. So we had to earn
our way. Now, my Captain Avery that I talk about, he didnt want them.
HT: He didnt want women in his units?
LD: He didnt want [women].
HT: Did he ever change his mind later on?
LD: Oh yes! He was absolutely one of the most enthusiastic persons aboutnot
00:40:00about the women as a whole, nor was he about the men, but about individuals and
what they could do. He was a good judge of individuals. And if they could cut
the mustard, he liked them, but you had to prove you could do it.
HT: Did you ever encounter any sort of discrimination because you were a woman,
that you can recall?
LD: Not overt. Maybe a little snide, but no overt.
HT: Did you ever receive any special treatment because you were a woman?
LD: No.
HT: And were you ever singled out in any way, that you can recall?
LD: Well, you remember what the captain said, If you were a man, wed settle
this thing right now. Thats the only thing.
HT: What was the hardest thing you ever had to do, physically?
00:41:00
LD: This will surprise you. I walked to work, and we had ice for five weeks, and
I slid across Constitution Avenue every morning just getting there.
HT: Where did you live when you were in Washington?
LD: I lived in Northwest, in a little apartment house with a cousin of mine. She
just moved over and I moved in with her. I was lucky.
HT: So you were never in a WAVE dorm or anything like that?
LD: No, officers had to find their own quarters. Now, the enlisted girls had
places, but the officers had to find their places. I knew girls that moved from
hotel to hotel every three daysthat was the way they were doing it thentill
they found a place. But I just moved right in with a cousin of mine who had gone
00:42:00to Washington to work during World War I and had stayed. So I was lucky. And
where I was was about a block or two, two blocks I guess, from the Veterans
Administration building. I used to see John L. Lewis [United Mine Workers
leader] getting his shave every morning as I went by the barbershop by the
United Mine Workers. I wont say every morning, but many mornings. He didnt
speak and I didnt either, but I knew who he was. He couldnt have cared less
who I was.
HT: Im assuming you wore your uniform to work every day?
LD: You were not allowed to wear civilian clothes at any time anywhere.
HT: Did you receive any special treatment because you were in uniform, that you recall?
LD: Oh, yes. Particularly in New York. See, we traveled on the train for about
60 percent of the fare. I could stay at a good hotel in New York for six dollars.
00:43:00
HT: All because you were a member of the armed services?
LD: Yes. New York just turned itself upside-down for [us].
HT: Getting back to the question that I was asking you earlier, what the hardest
thing you ever had to do physically. What was the hardest thing you ever had to
do emotionally while you were in the military?
LD: It was that row I had with that captain. Not a row, but keeping my emotions
under control when I was furious wasnt easy, and following the prescribed route
was hard.
HT: Do you recall what your most embarrassing moment was?
LD: No.
HT: Were you ever afraid for yourself?
LD: No.
HT: And were you ever in any kind of physical danger?
LD: No, not that I know of, except from oncoming cars when I was trying to cross
the street.
00:44:00
HT: So you did not have a car there? You had to walk everywhere?
LD: Oh, heavens no! Nobody had cars. You couldnt buy a car then. No, you see,
that was in the days before everybody had a car.
HT: Did you know how to drive?
LD: Oh yeah, Id been driving since I was eight years old. I drove a Model T
when I was eight years old. In fact, when I wasoh, long before I was sixteen, I
helped my dad drive to Colorado. But we didnt have to have drivers licenses in
those days.
HT: Oh, I see. Can you tell me something about what kind of social life you and
your fellow WAVE officers had during the war?
LD: Well, my social life in Washington was a little different. I had WAVE
friends, and we would always meet for cocktails or go out to dinner or something
00:45:00like that; I had civilian friends that I had known over the years, and sort of
the same thing; and then my cousins friends took me in and I went out with
them; and then once in a while sometimes wed have just navy groups getting
together, both men and women. It wasnt a dull life.
HT: Do you recall what your favorite songs and movies and dances were in those days?
LD: I think probably one of my favorite songs was Ill Never Smile Again. And
movies, I dont know. I dont remember. Probably going down to the one movie
00:46:00house that showed just news films, seeing what was going on. Wed go down there.
My cousin and Id go down there and see the newsreels. After all, we didnt have
television, and radio wasnt much good, so that was it.
HT: Was Washington under blackouts during the war, do you recall?
LD: Semi, not like New York.
HT: So, are you saying New York was under total blackout at night? Everybody had
to draw curtains and that sort of thing?
LD: We drew curtains, but it wasntsince we werent right on the coast, it
wasnt as bad as New York.
HT: And did you ever hear anything about Washington being in danger of being
invaded, or anything like that?
00:47:00
LD: Oh no. Youd hear about it, but you just didnt pay any attention to.
HT: Just probably rumors and propaganda?
LD: Just propaganda, and most of that occurred, really, in the first year, of
course, from Pearl Harbor on into 42. And by the time 42 came, by the time I
got to Washington, that had practically died.
HT: When you went into the WAVES, was that the first period of time youd been
away from home for any extended period of time?
LD: I dont remember, but I was neverof course I was away from home at school.
I was of an independent nature and I never did get homesick, except one time in
my life, and that was at Queens, and that was when my bag was stolen. I had all
00:48:00my clothes in it and we had no money. [chuckling]
HT: You had mentioned President Franklin D. Roosevelt earlier. What did you
think of him, in general?
LD: We all admired him very much. We realized there at the last when we could
see him going by that he wasnt well at all. But I never did hear any real criticism.
HT: What about Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt, Eleanor?
LD: Oh, I saw her at a couple of dinners, and I had seen her atI guess at the
college before. She came there one time.
HT: Did she come to WC [Womans College] during the thirties?
LD: Yeah. And I thought, Thats an ugly woman, but she surely is smart. Lets
put it that way. She was a brilliant woman.
00:49:00
HT: So did you actually get a chance to meet her?
LD: I met her. But so what? I met Mrs. [Mamie] Eisenhower at the White House. So
what? They dont know me and I dont knowone of those duty handshakes.
HT: Right. Do you recall who your heroes and heroines were while you were in the military?
LD: No. Of course, I thoughtyes, lets put it this way: We in the navy thought
alike. We liked [General Dwight D.] Eisenhower. We hated [General Douglas] MacArthur.
HT: Why was that?
LD: I dont know. I guess because he stayed in Admiral [Chester W.] Nimitzs
hair so much. We didnt think too much of Admiral [Ernest J.] King, but he was
00:50:00the Chief of Naval Operations. He was a cold fish.
HT: Do you recall where you were when you heard about VE Day, Victory in Europe?
LD: I was at work.
HT: And what about VJ Day [Victory in Japan Day]?
LD: I was in Montreat, North Carolina.
HT: Had you gotten out by that time?
LD: No, I was on a few days leave and I had taken my parents up there. See, my
brother was still missing at that time.
HT: I think you mentioned earlier that once the war was over you wanted to get
out because you wanted to start life with your husband again.
LD: Well, that was it. There was no military career in the offing for meor for
him, as it turned out.
HT: Do you recall when you got out of the service?
00:51:00
LD: Yes, I actually left on October 31, 1945. My date of separation is December
7, 45.
HT: Do you recall what your adjustment to civilian life was like once you got
out of the military?
LD: Well, yes. We came here and stayed a while. Howard was worn out, so we
didnt have a place to live, we stayed with my folks or his. It wasnt too
satisfactory, but it was giving him a chance to rest. And then we went to
Charlotte on the 1st of January of 46, and we were there for about fifteen
months, and then here.
HT: Did you work?
LD: Part-time.
HT: Part-time? Was your husband recovering from the war?
LD: He was just tired.
HT: Tired. I imagine that was very typical of men coming back from overseas.
00:52:00
LD: Yes. It was a very, very hard transition.
HT: For men in particular?
LD: For men who had been in combat for as long as he had.
HT: But you dont think your transition was as difficult because
LD: Oh no. Oh no, mine wasnt as difficult. His was difficult.
HT: What type of impact do you think that being in the military had on your
life, immediately after the war and in the long-range?
LD: Well, I dont know, except that the principal I taught for, who was also a
veteran, said, You can get Dorsett out of the military, but Ill be blessed if
youll ever get the military out of her.
HT: So after you came back, you eventually taught school?
LD: Well, after I came back I didnt work for a while, and then I did social
work for eight years. And then my husband was chairman of the county board of
00:53:00education for years, twenty-some years, and they had a resignation on Saturday
and school started Wednesday. The supervisor saw him and said, So-and-so
resigned. Do you know anybody thats got a warm body and a history certificate?
Howard looked at me, I said, I have the warm body and an expired history
certificate. She said, I think youre hired. And I went to stay till they
could get somebody, and I stayed eleven years and wound up as head of the department.
HT: And this was the local
LD: The high school.
HT: The high school.
LD: Yeah, I was the department head and I was having masters teachers that I
was supervising. Not supervising, but at least checking up on.
HT: Did you enjoy your eleven years of teaching?
LD: I wouldnt have done it if I hadnt. I loved it. I have always felt that
00:54:00there are very few good high school history teachers. They dont show the
relevancy of one period of history to another. They dont show the connection,
that everything is interconnectedalways has been, always will be. They dont
show whats happening here and whats happening there at the same time and how
that finally works itself out into something. They just dont. They teach
memorization and dates. So the kids said to me, Mrs. Dorsett, are we going to
have to learn any dates? I said, No. Are we going to have to memorize
dates? I said, No. Youll learn a few. But I wasnt going to make them
memorize them, but theyd learn them because thats the way we tie things
00:55:00together. I loved it.
HT: Well, I can remember my history teacher with fond memories, and thats one
of the reasons I took it in college was because of my high school history teacher.
LD: Well, I just liked it, and I had donemost of my reading in the years had
been either historical fiction or something on that order, so I wasnt totally
left out, but I did have toas I say, I did have to teach the book the first
year. And I dont like teachers who teach the book. I want to teach the course.
HT: Do you feel like your life has been different because you were in the military?
LD: Oh yes.
HT: In what respects?
LD: It gave me an assurance that I could do what I set out to do, and I just
00:56:00havent lost it. Assurance may be one word, determination may be another one.
HT: And it sounds like youd do it again.
LD: Oh yeah. No, Im a little too old now. Im eighty-five years old.
[chuckling] But I am on the board of our community college. Were selecting a
president, and Ive been on that selection committee. We interviewed sixteen
people fromlets see, we interviewed Thursday night, Fridaywe gave them each
an hour and a half, Thursday night, Friday night, all day Saturday, and Sunday
afternoon. Got to go through it again next weekend with just eight.
HT: Do you consider yourself to be an independent person?
LD: Yes.
HT: And do you think the military made you that way, or were you that way?
LD: No, it just confirmed it. [chuckling] And strengthened it.
HT: Right. I imagine so. Did you consider yourself a pioneer, a trailblazer, or
00:57:00a trendsetter when you entered the military?
LD: For this area, yes, I was.
HT: And do you consider yourself and other women who joined the military to have
been sort of forerunners of what we call the womens movement today?
LD: I think so, yes. Yes, I do.
HT: Because women just didnt do that sort of thing.
LD: No. You see, since I was in the navy, I have never taken a job where there
was a difference in the pay between men and women. I wont take it. For the same
job, the same pay, or Im not interested. And Im fairly vocal about it.
HT: Can you tell me about how women who joined the military were perceived by
the general public, by their families, by men? I was talking to a WAC the other
day and had read something about thethere was a slander campaign, I think it
00:58:00was in 1943, the spring of 1943, that was started within the army and
LD: The army had more of that than we did.
HT: So you didnt hear much about that in the navy?
LD: No, I wasnt interested in the army. My husband was in it, but the
literature that they sent out did not appeal to me. It seemed to assume we were
second-class. So I waited till the navywithin twenty-four hours after the
information was in the paper, I had written for it.
HT: So do you think that the men who were in the navy treated the women with the
respect that was due them, for the most part?
00:59:00
LD: Some of them did and some of them didnt. It was an individual matter. It
depended on how sure the man was of himself, of his own self-image. If he had a
poor self-image, he sometimes wasnt too nice. But it all depended. It was the individual.
HT: Did you ever run into that sort of attitude?
LD: Oh yes.
HT: What were your reactions to that sort of attitude?
LD: Well, ignore it if I could. If I couldnt, let it be known that I considered
him not doing the best he could for his country or for himself, that his
attitude lacked a lot. I didnt do that to superior officers. I did it to lesser
officers, officers that worked for me.
01:00:00
HT: So you had men officers working under you and for you while you were in the military?
LD: Yes. In fact, I had one who thought he was going to get my job. But I ranked
him by a day, and it killed him.
HT: Was it easier to work with women officers than men officers, or
LD: All depended on the individual. Some men officers were wonderful to work
with, some of them were hell on wheels. And I never did work with too many women
officers. I socialized with women officers, and I did work with some. And some
were great, some wereit is a matter of self-image, I think, whether you can
handle it or not. See, some of them, you give them a little rank and they get
01:01:00delusions of grandeur. Not many, but some.
HT: Have any of your children ever been in the military?
LD: My son. He was in college, and wasnt too sure what he wanted and wasnt
doing too much with it, so he went into the air force. His sister, his older
sister, is very bright, and he thought he was dumb. He wasnt. And the air force
tests showed that he was quite bright, and so they sent him to a
thirty-nine-week school and then to England where he spent three years. And
while he was in England, he wasnt too far from Cambridge, and he got a whole
twenty-one or more hours of As off, and went back to college and graduated with
honors. Hes an MBA-CPA [Masters in Business Administration-Certified Public
01:02:00Accountant]. And our daughter has taught French, well she retired. Now shes
teaching back at the same school on contract and she teaches Spanish at Pembroke
University and shes --
[End Tape 1, Side BBegin Tape 2, Side A]
LD: a French woman in Paris asked my granddaughter for directions somewhere,
and she says, Do you know, I was able to do it back in French.
HT: How wonderful.
LD: Thats because shes not going to be as fluent as her mother is. Her
mothers a graduate of Duke.
HT: Did your daughter ever consider going into the military because youd been
in the military?
LD: No.
01:03:00
HT: No? No consideration there at all?
LD: No.
HT: What about your son? Do you think he was influenced because you and your
husband had been in the military?
LD: It might have been indirect. Well, you see, I was in the military, my
brother was in the military, Howard was in the military, and his brother was in
the military. So were all
HT: So youre a real military family, really.
LD: For short lengths of time.
HT: Your son, you said he was in the air force?
LD: Yes.
HT: And he was stationed overseas in England. When was he in, do you know? Was
it during Vietnam?
LD: After that. I cant remember, but it was the late sixties and early
seventies. He was at Mildenhall [Air Force Base, England], which is where
everybody who goes overseas goes through customs and does all that. Thats where
he got interested in computers. Im a rarity: a computer illiterate. [chuckling]
01:04:00A total illiterate.
HT: So youve never tried to work with a computer?
LD: Never tried. One of the little boys that teaches up at the community college
said, Mrs. Dorsett, we cant have that. Im going to teach you something. I
said, You dont know what youre up against.
HT: You can do it.
LD: Oh well, if I made up my mind, but I havent done that yet.
HT: Mrs. Dorsett, just a few more question about this and then Ill let you rest
a little bit. How do you feel about women in combat positions? You know, recently
LD: If theyre going in, theyre in. Period. For whatever comes up, theyre there.
HT: So you do approve of this?
LD: Yes. If youre willing to go into the service, then youre not supposed to
be special.
HT: No matter what your sex is?
LD: That has nothing to do with it. If you expect equal pay for the same job,
01:05:00then youve got to take equal risk.
HT: Is there anything else that we havent covered that you would like to add
about your military service?
LD: Not that I can think of right now. Its been a long time ago.
HT: I know. Can you tell me something about what your life has been like since
you left the military?
LD: Well, we have raised two children. We both worked. My husbands been an
accountant, hes retired, and we have both been active in community and civic
and church work. Thats it. We have managed to stay quite busyno problem.
HT: It sounds like youve had a wonderful life.
LD: Well, most of the time, yes. Its had its ups and downs. Nobody in the world
but Howard Dorsett would have lived with me all these years.
HT: And why do you say that?
01:06:00
LD: Because Im so independent. And hes independent too, but we worked it out.
HT: And youve been married now, what, you said
LD: Fifty-six years.
HT: Fifty-six years. And how many years have you lived here in Mt. Gilead?
LD: Well, now since we were married. We came back here in 1947. Weve been here
since then. Weve been in this house since 1950. Is it too cool in here?
HT: Im quite comfortable, thank you. Mrs. Dorsett, I dont have any more
questions. I really appreciate you talking to me today. Its just been wonderful
to hear your stories.
LD: Well, I dont have any hair-raising stories like Im sure some folks do.
Its just
HT: Well, it was still a pleasure talking to you, and again thank you so much.
LD: And no wild experiences. I will say this, that has nothing to do with the
service, but a coincidencethats not on now, is it?
HT: Yes, it is.
LD: Well, this doesnt concern me, but my brother was killed in the Aleutians in
01:07:00a submarine, a small submarine. This was one patrol, and then they were all to
come back for a new construction. But this little S-Boat [a submarine], the
captain had won the Navy Cross in the South Pacific, and this guy wanted to win
it too. So they were cruising along on the surface, and he mistook what he
thought was a destroyer for a regular, what do you call them anyways? Anyway, a
civilian ship. And of course, they were shot down. My brother was the
engineering officer, so he was gone immediately. But seven guys got out. They
01:08:00machine-gunned all of them but two, and the two of them were taken to Japanese
prisons. Ive seen one of them twice, but the last time I saw himIm getting
ahead of my story, but at any rate, Howard and I were on a traingot on a train
in New York to go to Washington. Wed left the car there, and we went to go to
the diner, and it happened to be one of those old trains, the diner and the club
car are the same thing. And on our right was sitting a woman guzzling beer, on
our left was the chief petty officer guzzling beer, and we struck up an
acquaintance with a couple from Akron, [Ohio], who knew some folks we knew.
Well, after lunch we went back to the car. It was a no-smoking car. I smoked at
the time, so I said Id go back to the club car. Howard said hed take a nap.
01:09:00And I saw my friends and we started talking. But the chief was still sitting
over there guzzling beer. And I said about three things and he said, Whats
your name? I thought, Well, who in the Sam Hill are you? Then I realizedI
said, Louise Dorsett. By the way, are you Ernest Duva or Bill Whitemore? He
said, Im Bill Whitemore. One of the two survivors of my brothers submarine.
Now thats coincidence.
HT: This was after the war?
LD: This was about fifteen years ago.
HT: That is amazing.
LD: And the lady that I was talking to got white as a sheet. She said, This is
a coincidence beyond what I had ever thought about. That poor guy was a wreck.
01:10:00He said the navy kept him. In the submarine service. He could not go to sea
because he was an alcoholic, and that was that. But he was going down to
Washington to get his wife, to take her back up to New London.
HT: And he was still in the navy at that time, I think you said?
LD: Yeah, they were keeping him till he had enough years to retire. I said
fifteen years ago, thats probably twenty years ago. But it was something. It
was an experience. [chuckling]
HT: I can imagine so. Well, is there anything else that you can add to your
interesting stories?
LD: I cant think of anything. I dont have many interesting stories, and I
cant think of a thing to add.
HT: Well, again, thank you so much.
LD: Well, I appreciate you coming down here.
HT: Oh, youre so welcome.
LD: Why in the world you took all that bother
[Tape turned off]
LD: Of course, I do think one thing, that I was probably the first UNC Womans
01:11:00College student to go into the service.
HT: The first one?
LD: I know I was the first one in the navy. I dont know about the WAC. But Im
pretty sureif you go in and are examined August of 42, thats pretty early.
HT: That is very early. Because I cant remember exactly when the WAC started,
but there was
LD: They started about a month before we did, a month before or more.
HT: Let me ask you one more quick question. When you were in the service, did
you ever come back to the campus for any reason during the forties? Do you
recall ever coming back?
LD: I dont think I did. I came back to Carolina Power and Light Company once or
twice. Id come through Raleigh coming home. But we had so little time off, and
transportation was horrible. I know I was supposed to leave Washington one night
01:12:00at seven-something to come to Charlotte for Christmas, and we left at 11:00
[p.m.] and were supposed to get into Charlotte early in the morning. We got
there at 5:00 [p.m.] that afternoon, Christmas afternoon. It was just crowded
and irregular.
Of course, when my brother waswe got the word that he was missing, I flew
priority from Washington to Charlotte. My commanding officer at that time, the
one that I replacedit happened on a Saturday, so he got in touch with the duty
officer and did everything and got me on that plane.
HT: Was it a military plane?
LD: No, civilian plane. But I traveled with a priority. That means I kicked
01:13:00somebody off. Im sorry about that.
HT: And you say you landed in Charlotte? How did you get home here to Mt. Gilead
at that time?
LD: Well, my mother was in the hospital in Charlotte, and my brothers wife was
from Charlotte, so we were just there. And then I think I came home sometime
during the week. But my mother had a broken hip, and she was in the hospital in Charlotte.
Interesting, a little town, small-town life, but we dont seem to mind. Ive
lived in Washington and Ive lived in Charlotte and Ive lived in Raleigh, and
Ill just take it here. A good place to bring up children.
HT: And Mt. Gilead has how many people?
LD: Oh, about fourteen, fifteen hundred.
HT: And was it as small in those days?
LD: Oh yes, about the same.
HT: About the same? What type of crops are grown in this area?
LD: Not much farming. Lumber, and a little bit of tobacco. Not much. Some of the
01:14:00farmers are beginninga lot of soybeans. We only have about three or four real
farmers in the county. Everybodys into something else.
HT: And your family has always lived in this area?
LD: Well, its lived here since 1927. My mother was born in Kentucky, reared in
Missouri, and taught school in Iowa. My father was born in Missouri and reared
there, graduated from college there, and worked in Utah, Colorado, and North Carolina.
HT: So they traveled quite a bit, the families did?
LD: Oh, we used to. Oh, we used to go back to Colorado. I remember we went back
to Colorado when I was quiteprobably ten years old, in a Model T, and camped
01:15:00where we didnt have relatives.
HT: You drove all the way from here to Colorado in a Model T?
LD: Oh yeah, climbed Pikes Peak in it.
HT: Were there paved roads at that time, or some?
LD: Some. Most of the roads through the Middle West were on the section lines.
Remember when the Northwest Territories Act was passed, all that land was
divided into sections, and most of the roads were on the section lines because
nobody wanted to lose that much of his farmland to put a road through.
HT: And how long would it take you to drive from here to Colorado in those days?
LD: Well, it depended. You see, wed stop in Nashville for a few days, and we
stopped in Chicago if we went that way, we stopped in Iowa, we stopped in
01:16:00Kansas, we stopped in St. Louis. These were where we had relatives or friends.
We stopped in Oklahoma. Depending on which trip it was and whether we were going
southern or northern. But my fathers parents and two sisters and brother all
left Missouri and went out cattle ranching in Colorado, in the mountains, up
about eight or nine thousand feet.
HT: I understand thats absolutely beautiful country out there.
LD: Gorgeous. My aunt never let the fire go out in her kitchen stove. It was
that cool. In the sun it was hot, but at night you always were very happy to
have a blanket or two. I loved it.
HT: Well, again, thank you, Mrs. Dorsett. Id better not tire you out any more.
01:17:00
LD: You havent bothered me at all.
[End of Interview]
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