Oral history interview with Dorothy Coley

WOMEN VETERANS HISTORICAL PROJECTPRIVATE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION INTERVIEWEE: Dorothy Coley INTERVIEWER: Hermann J. Trojanowski DATE:November 8, 1999 [Begin Interview]

HT:It's Monday, November 8, 1999, and my name is Hermann Trojanowski, and I'm at the home of Miss Dorothy Coley, in Raleigh, North Carolina, to conduct an interview for the Women Veterans Historical Project at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro [UNCG].

Miss Coley, if you could give me your full name, please, and we'll use that as a test to see how your voice sounds on this recorder.

DC:My full name is Dorothy Frances Coley.

HT:Tell me something about your life before you joined the American Red Cross,

such as where you were born, and where you lived, and a little about your family life, and where you went to high school and where you went to college, and the type of work you did, that sort of thing.

DC:I am the oldest of six children [two girls, four boys] who grew up in the country in a neighborhood called Wilders Grove, which is five miles from Raleigh, [North Carolina]. Our family were farmers. My father raised tobacco and when we were old enough we helped him. My youngest brother didn't because he was one when my father died. He died on my brother's first birthday.

I went to school in Knightdale. That's a town about ten miles from where I lived. I graduated high school from there in 1936, and from there I went to the Woman's College, University of North Carolina in Greensboro. Of the six of us,

there were three who graduated from college. My sister went one year to Meredith [College] in Raleigh on a scholarship. The next year she went to business school. When she finished, she got a job in Wachovia Bank as a secretary for one of the head men.

One brother went to University of North Carolina [Chapel Hill, North Carolina]

and he went on to become a doctor. He went to the University of Pennsylvania to medical school. Another brother went to North Carolina State College in Raleigh,

and graduated in engineering. He worked at Westinghouse for years. Three children did not get to go. I don't know where you want me to go from here.

HT:I'll ask you a few questions then about Woman's College [WC]. What made you decide to go to Woman's College?

DC:I think one of my teachers in high school suggested it, and I said, "Well, I don't know what to take." And she said, "Well, take physical education. You're a very good athlete, so take that." I thought, well, that sounds better than teaching in a classroom, so that's what I did.

HT:Do you recall what life was like at WC during those days, in the late thirties?

DC:It was quite different from what it is now. I lived in Spencer Dorm, and I'm not sure Spencer's still there.

HT:It is.

DC:Is it? Well, I lived in Spencer. And I lived with a girl that I had been in high school with. I roomed with her my freshman year. After that, I roomed with other friends I'd made. I lived in Woman's Dorm for three years.

HT:And you said you were a physical education major?

DC:Yes, physical education major.

HT:Do you recall who your instructors were?

DC:Yes, some of them. Miss Mary Channing Coleman was head of the PE department.

Three others who I remember were Misses [Christine] White and [Dorothy] Davis who taught various sports, Miss [Miriam] Shelden was another one who taught body mechanics. There were several others whose names I don't recall.

HT:Then they might come up later on. Do you recall what type of courses you had to take to be a PE major?

DC:Basically, a science background. And then, of course, we took quite a number of courses in physical education. Tennis, basketball, dancing, swimming 00:05:00and most all sports.

HT:Was the outdoor gymnasium still in existence when you were there? It was behind Rosenthal [Gymnasium].

DC:I believe it was. But I'm not positive. That seems so long ago. I can't remember a whole lot about it.

HT:Do you recall any of the administrators, like Dr. [Walter Clinton] Jackson?

DC:I remember him.

HT:What about Miss Elliott? Harriet Elliott.

DC:Oh yes, I remember her. You give me the names, I can tell you if I know them.

But I can't come up with the names.

HT:Did you ever have the occasion to meet Dr. Jackson or Miss Elliott?

DC:Yes, both of them.

HT:I've talked to other people who graduated just about the same time you did,

and apparently these two people were very well beloved by just about all the students.

DC:They were very nice.

HT:Do you recall what Greensboro was like in those days? Was it a much smaller city?

DC:Much smaller town, yes. Well, it wasn't all that different from Raleigh,

really. I mean, as far as size and shopping and that kind of thing.

HT:Did you ever go downtown, shopping and that sort of thing?

DC:Yes.

HT:And was the streetcar still in existence at that time?

DC:Something public was, because none of us had cars.

HT:Well, I've talked to other ladies who said when they were in school, they had to walk just about everywhere because they'd try to save their money, because money was so tight.

DC:Oh, money was tight. Very tight.

HT:Did you have to work when you went to school?

DC:Well, what happened to me was, my aunt said--our family was poor, and they didn't have the money to send me to school. They wanted me to go, but they didn't know how I was going to pay for it. My aunt gave my mother some amount of money toward my college education. I don't remember what it was now, but it was to pay my first payment.

And when I wrote the check, it bounced. My mother had borrowed the money because she needed it for something for the family. She hadn't prepared me for the fact that she cashed the check, so I called her and I asked what happened. She said,

"I meant to get to you in time, but I didn't," and said some emergency had come up and she needed the money.

And so I just went to Mr. Phillips and told him that I needed some work to pay my way through school. He was in charge of employing students who needed work.

He first had me working in the dining room. Working in the dining hall interfered with my after school sports, because supper was like five or five-thirty, and we wouldn't get in till almost dark from soccer, softball, etc.

But I got through that my freshman year and then my sophomore year I worked in the dormitory, answering the phone and answering the door. That was ideal,

because I could sit at the desk and answer the phone and do my homework. I continued this work until graduation.

HT:Do you recall how much money you were paid in those days?

DC:Well, no, I don't, but the college tuition was $360 a year.

HT:But that was good piece of money in those days.

DC:Yes, it was, and I was lucky to get the job.

HT:And after you graduated, what type of work did you do?

DC:Well, I trained as a teacher and I went to Durham, [North Carolina]. I got a job in Durham the--in the elementary school, teaching physical education to the children. And I did that for one year. The next year I got 00:10:00a job at Erskine College in Due West, South Carolina. It was a small college with small classes.

But I was there for just one year. After that I went into the Red Cross.

HT:Do you feel like the education you got at WC was real good?

DC:Oh, yes. Very good.

HT:In those days, it had the reputation of being one of the finest schools in the southeast, maybe if not the east coast and that sort of thing. So I guess you did real well and it really helped you along to get these jobs in Durham and Erskine. And you said after you were at Erskine College, you went--

DC:I decided to join the Red Cross.

HT:What year was that, do you remember?

DC:I graduated from college in 1940 and taught two years. That would make it 1942 when I applied to the American Red Cross for work in military hospitals.

HT:What made you decide to join the Red Cross, and leave teaching?

DC:Well, I was interested in participating in the service and doing what I could.

HT:In the war effort?

DC:In the war effort, that's right. I started to go into the WAVES [Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service], didn't--I wrote letters to the Red Cross and somehow my letter got misplaced. So then I decided I was going to try to get in the WAVES. I was accepted and ready to go. And then I heard from the Red Cross so I thought, "Well, I better stick with the Red Cross because if I don't like it I can get out, and I can't in the WAVES."

HT:Now when you joined the Red Cross, did you have to join for a certain length of time, like the ladies who joined the WAVES and that sort of thing?

DC:No. You could go in and stay a year and resign if you wanted to.

HT:Did you have any kind of special training?

DC:Yes. We went to Washington.

HT:Washington, D.C.?

DC:Washington, D.C., as a group, and they trained us about the Red Cross and the military, and what our responsibilities would be.

HT:And what were your responsibilities? Do you recall what type of work that you did?

DC:We worked in military hospitals, as recreation workers. We didn't work with able-bodied. We worked with the wounded who were hospitalized.

HT:Did you do physical therapy type work?

DC:No, no. It was recreation. See, they had to be in the hospital until they were able to go back to duty, so this made it a long time. They could have gone in the hospital with measles or any medical disease, and they wouldn't likely be in the hospital as long as if they were wounded. But they would have to be well enough to go back to duty. Sometimes in a week they would be wandering around the hospital with nothing to do. Our responsibility was to provide wholesome recreation for them.

HT:And what type of recreation were you able to provide?

DC:When they were in the bed, we would go on the ward and talk to them, play cards with them, take them a radio if they were interested, take them a guitar if they were interested, and try to meet the needs that went along with their interests and abilities. Like one who could play a guitar might think, "Well,

that would be fun to do while I'm here."

HT:And you said you received your training in Washington, D.C.DC:Yes.

HT:Did that last for several days or weeks?

DC:I don't remember but it was several days, I think.

HT:And this was not your first time away from home. I've talked to some ladies who went into the service, the military, or something like that--it was the first time they were away from home, which was quite a shock to them. You'd been away to college, so you were used to being away.

DC:Yes.

HT:Was this the first time you'd been out of North Carolina, other than South Carolina? Had you been north before this period of time?

DC:Yes, I went to New York University summer school one year, between my first year teaching and my second year, so I was out of North Carolina.

HT:And what did you think of Washington, D.C. in those days?

DC:Oh, I thought it was fascinating. I liked 00:15:00it. The summer school was part of New York University, but it was a summer camp, and there was a swimming pool. I took swimming and various other sports. It was enjoyable.

HT:What did your family think about you joining the Red Cross?

DC:They liked it. They thought it was all right. And if I had gone into the WAVES, they would have approved of that. They were not a family that felt like we should just be homebodies. They wanted us to have the experience that we were interested in.

HT:I think you mentioned earlier in our conversation that some of your siblings and your brothers were in the service. Is that correct?

DC:Yes, it is.

HT:And which branch were they in?

DC:James was in the army. No, air force. He was in the air force. Richard was in the air force. He was in Japan. James was in China, and Elwood was in the navy.

He was a med[ical] student, and so he ended up in Walter Reed Hospital, [Washington, D.C.], as a corpsman, taking care of the patients.

HT:This was all during World War II?

DC:Yes, all during World War II.

HT:You had mentioned earlier that you had thought about going into the WAVES. Do you recall what people in general thought about women who joined the military? I have heard various things about--there was some slander started against some of the WACs [Women's Army Corps] during World War II that was not very favorable.

And I think there might have been some jealousy and that sort of thing. Do you recall anything about that?

DC:No, not a whole lot. It didn't bother me, I don't think. I know I was more interested in the WAVES than I was the WACs. I don't know why, except I guess preferred the navy. And I worked in navy hospitals, too. You would go wherever you were assigned.

HT:What was the name of the hospital where you worked in D.C.?

DC:I didn't work in D.C. I was assigned to hospitals in the southeastern area.

My first assignment was at Camp Polk [Fort Polk, Leesville, Louisiana]. After that I was in Daytona Beach, Florida; Charleston, South Carolina, Navy Hospital;

and Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Atlanta, Georgia, was headquarters for this area. I later transferred to the northern area and worked in a hospital in New York. I later terminated my Red Cross while I was there.

HT:So you took your, what I'm going to call basic training, in Washington, D.C.,

and then afterwards you were assigned to various hospitals all over the Southeast?

DC:All over the Southeast.

HT:And did you do similar work in each hospital?

DC:That's right, same kind of work.

HT:Recreational work?

DC:Yes, that's right. Except when I was at Daytona Beach, Florida, Convalescent Hospital. That was different. There the men were up. They were convalescing. And they would come to the building, which was the recreation hall, for them. We didn't go to their quarters, like we did when they were in the hospital. We would go to whatever wards were assigned to you. You had certain wards you were responsible for, to visit the patients and plan the program.

And then we had a recreation hall. When the patients got up and were able to play pool or ping pong, or sit down and play pinochle or bridge or checkers,

they would come to the rec hall and play, and we would be there 00:20:00to play with them. And times, we would invite girls in and have dances.

HT:Speaking of dances, do you recall what your favorite dances and songs were from World War II?

DC:No, I don't.

HT:Do you recall what the mood of the country was during World War II?

DC:No. You know, in my environment, in the hospital, in recreation, the morale was good. And as far as people being terribly upset about the country being in war, it wasn't noticeable.

HT:Can you describe a typical day? Did you work eight to five?

DC:Some days. But we also worked noon to nine, because then we had evening programs, too. So like if we had a dance or whatever, we would cover that.

HT:What about weekend work?

DC:Yes, we worked weekends, too.

HT:But not seven days straight?

DC:No. No, you'd have some time off. If you worked the weekend, then you might have the next weekend off, whereby you could leave the post or grounds, and go out of town.

HT:We talked a little bit earlier about your uniform. Can you describe the type of uniform that you had at the time?

DC:Yes. Well, the picture here shows the dress uniform. That's called a dress uniform, which is a greyish-blue jacket, and a skirt, and the cap. And then the white blouse with the Red Cross button at the neck, and the Red Cross emblem on the left sleeve of the jacket.

HT:Did you have rank?

DC:No rank.

HT:There was no rank.

DC:No rank. And then the uniform that we wore on the job, so to speak, was just this blue dress that had a Red Cross on one collar and an "ARC" on the other collar. And a Red Cross on the sleeve. On the job in the hospital we had to wear white shoes. We didn't like that a bit.

HT:Because I imagine they were difficult to keep clean.

DC:That's right.

HT:What did you and your fellow Red Cross--were you all women, or was it a mix?

DC:No, we were all women.

HT:What did you ladies do for fun when you weren't on duty, so to speak? When you went off duty, what type of--

DC:Things did we do? Well, we were allowed to go to the officers' club, so we would go to the officers' club and we would often have dates with some of the officers, and had dances, dinner parties and the usual kind of things, such as movies.

HT:And were there any males in the Red Cross that you worked with?

DC:No. I think we were all women. Now whether there were any men, I'm not sure.

I can't recall seeing a man in a Red Cross uniform, I don't think.

HT:Could you have had the chance to go overseas if you'd wanted to? You said you worked in the Southeast only, the fourteen years that you were in. Could you have gone overseas?

DC:Well, that's what I was trying to tell you over the phone, that when I came back from overseas I asked to be assigned to New York, because I had been in the South so long.

HT:Because I've talked to some people who said that they had Red Cross--that worked with Red Cross people in Australia--so apparently, there were some American Red Cross people stationed there, and in the Pacific, but I don't know if they were--I guess eventually they were stationed in Europe, I'm sure after the war and that sort of thing. Well, did you enjoy your work? It sounds like you liked your work.

DC:Oh, yes, I liked it. I never would have stayed for fourteen years if I hadn't. 00:25:00And then when I got out, I went back to graduate school and studied social work, at Catholic University in Washington and obtained a master's degree.

HT:You were a member of the Red Cross from mid-forties till when--in 1950?

DC:Well, fourteen years would be, let me see now. I graduated from Catholic University in 1960, I think, so I would have gotten out in '58. Does that make fourteen years?

HT:Yes. Nineteen-forty-four to '58 is fourteen years, which is about the time that you [unclear].

DC:Yes, that's right.

HT:During those fourteen years, what was the hardest thing you ever had to do physically? Do you recall?

DC:No.

HT:What about emotionally? Did you ever have any difficult time seeing these soldiers sick and hurt and that sort of thing? Was that difficult?

DC:Yes, that was hard. You know, you'd get attached to them, and then some of them would die, and that would be real hard.

HT:Do you ever recall being afraid?

DC:No.

HT:So you never encountered physical danger?

DC:No, no.

HT:Do you recall any hilarious or embarrassing moments, during World War II?

DC:I don't know that I do. I don't remember any. Sure there must have been some,

but I don't remember any.

HT:Do you recall when you heard about VE Day, which was victory in Europe, which was in May of '45? Do you recall where you were at that time?

DC:No, I don't remember. Let me go see if I have an outline. [Tape recorder turned off]

HT:After the end of World War II, you continued staying in the Red Cross. Do you recall why you decided not to get out and why you decided to make it a career?

DC:I just liked it, and I liked to travel, and meeting all the different people.

I mean, I felt like we were doing a good job with the sick soldiers and sailors.

HT:And of course I'm sure there was a great need, even after the war, because so many soldiers came back and had long-term injuries and convalescence and that sort of thing.

DC:Yes, that's true.

HT:While we had the tape recorder off, you showed me some photographs where you were stationed in Germany, or working in Germany, in the fifties. How did you like being overseas, do you recall?

DC:Oh, I loved that. It was wonderful. I enjoyed it very much, because we got to travel. You know, when we had holidays or weekends off, we traveled.

HT:Did you ever learn to speak German?

DC:A little bit. Auf wiedersehen and a few words. Sprechen sie deutsch.

HT:You showed me photographs of--you were working in Stuttgart and Augsburg and I think took some vacations in Garmisch and that sort of thing?

DC:That's right.

HT:So you were basically in southern Germany?

DC:Yes. I went to Switzerland, too, while I was there.

HT:Did you work in army hospitals?

DC:Army hospitals, yes.

HT:And how was that different than the type of work you did in the States?

DC:Pretty much the same. Because the men were in service and they were wounded or sick, and they were in the hospital.

HT:Of course, you worked for the Red Cross. Were your supervisors civilian Red Cross people, or were the immediate supervisors military?

DC:No, they were Red Cross people.

HT:So you had to answer to Red Cross only, not the military?

DC:That's right. And there were places where I was the head recreation worker.

HT:So you were the supervisor?

DC:I was the supervisor of the recreation workers. Now, one thing I haven't mentioned is that there were two 00:30:00services. We were recreation and social work,

and those who were in social work would take care of their problems of one kind or another that involved maybe contacting their parents or wives or whatever.

But their jobs were one thing and ours were another.

HT:I think you had said that you stayed in for fourteen years. What made you decide to leave after fourteen years?

DC:I mentioned earlier that when I came back from overseas I asked to be stationed in the northern area. Anyway, I didn't want to go south again, so I asked at headquarters if I could go to the northern part of the United States,

and that's when I ended up in New York. And then from there, they wanted me to go to Columbus, Ohio, and be the only worker in a hospital that had higher-ranking wives that would be my volunteers, and I didn't like the sound of that. So the only nice way I could get out of it was to go back to school.

HT:This is the first time you've mentioned volunteers. Did you have volunteers at the other--

DC:Yes, all the hospitals had volunteers.

HT:And so were you in charge of some of these volunteers from time to time?

DC:Yes.

HT:And how did you like working with volunteers?

DC:Oh, I liked it.

HT:Did you train people as well?

DC:Yes, we trained them.

HT:And then supervised them as well?

DC:Yes.

HT:And what about in Germany? Were there volunteers there?

DC:I would think so and don't remember any.

HT:American wives?

DC:Yes, that's right.

HT:But no German nationals?

DC:No Germans. They would be the Americans.

HT:After you left the Red Cross, can you describe your adjustment to being a non Red Cross worker, after fourteen years?

DC:Well, it didn't seem to be any problem, because I went back to school. I went to, as I said, Catholic University in Washington, and I chose that because it wasn't so far from Raleigh. I wouldn't want to go to New York School of Social Work. I went there one summer and I went to [Case] Western Reserve [University,

Cleveland, Ohio] one summer. Anyway, I like Washington and it wasn't too far from home.

HT:And what did you study?

DC:I studied social work there. I went into social work.

HT:Was this for your master's degree?

DC:Master's degree, yes.

HT:And how long did it take you to accomplish?

DC:Two years.

HT:And then after you finished school, where did you go to work?

DC:I remember all these things about Red Cross, which were much more years ago,

than I remember about social work.

HT:Well, we can always come back to it if you can recall a bit later on. Let me backtrack just a minute about your days in the Red Cross. I know the Red Cross has been in existence since, what, the 1860s, is it?

DC:I think so.

HT:I think it goes way back. But were there women in the Red Cross prior to World War II, or mainly men, because I know really nothing about the history of the Red Cross, unfortunately.

DC:No, there were some women. Like here in Raleigh, you know, the Red Cross chapter. Most of the cities had Red Cross chapters, where they took blood. That was their big service.

HT:And taking care of people in disasters and that sort of thing?

DC:That's right. And then with the servicemen, if they needed to get in touch with somebody, say, here in Raleigh, they would go to the Red Cross and ask if they could locate so and so, who was in the military.

HT:Well, do you consider yourself, having joined the Red Cross--do you consider yourself to have been a trailblazer or a trendsetter, when you did that? Were many women joining the Red Cross at that time, or was it just a few?

DC:See these crowds in this picture? Yes, there were a lot of women in the Red Cross. I don't know what the--well, the motivation may have been like mine. If you get in the Red Cross and you're 00:35:00miserable, you can get out, but if you get in the army or the navy, you can't get out until they let you out.

HT:So there's a little bit more flexibility here?

DC:Flexibility, that's right. And you had some say-so in where you went.

HT:Tell me a little bit about how that process went. Say you were stationed in Raleigh--did they just rotate people out every year or so, or how did that work exactly? I mean, you did quite a bit of traveling around.

DC:Right. No, it was where you were needed. You know, maybe someone left Dublin,

Georgia, and that left a vacancy. And you might be assigned to this vacancy.

HT:Plus, if they pulled you from here, they'd create a vacancy here.

DC:That's right. I think it had a lot to do with the size of the hospitals, too.

HT:Sure. And the needs, probably, at that particular location, and that sort of thing. Do you recall who your heroes and heroines were, when you were in the Red Cross all those years? Did you have any heroes or heroines? They could be personal friends who were outstanding or they could be national figures that you thought very highly of.

DC:No.

HT:What did you think of President Franklin D. Roosevelt?

DC:Oh, I thought he was good.

HT:And what about Mrs. [Eleanor] Roosevelt?

DC:Yes, she was an outstanding lady.

HT:I think I saw a photograph of her the other day, and she was in a Red Cross uniform.

DC:I believe she was.

HT:Do you know if she was a volunteer?

DC:No, I don't know.

HT:The lady that I interviewed who was in Australia, and Mrs. Roosevelt came to that area, in the South Pacific somewhere, and she had a Red Cross uniform on.

What about General Dwight D. Eisenhower? Did you hear of him before he became president?

DC:Yes, he was in the military.

HT:Right, sure. He was a commander of chief in Europe. What about President Harry Truman?

DC:Oh, I thought he was all right. He was president.

HT:Yes. This may or may not be something that you're real familiar with, but how do you feel about women in combat positions? You know, recently, in the Gulf War, they had, and they still do have women fighting, in combat planes and that sort of thing. How do you feel about women doing this sort of thing?

DC:Well, I don't know that I have any particularly strong feelings, other than the fact that if that's what they want to do and they're willing to risk their lives to be a pilot, that is up to them.

HT:I just have basically one or two more questions about your Red Cross days.

After you got out of the Red Cross in the late fifties, I guess it was, have you done any volunteer work for the Red Cross since then?

DC:No, I haven't.

HT:So you didn't keep in touch with them at all?

DC:I didn't keep in touch, no. No, the paths went in opposite directions.

HT:And you started doing social work?

DC:Social work.

HT:Can you tell me a little bit about the type of work you did until you retired, in the social field?

DC:Well, my last assignment was in a hospital in Creedmoor, North Carolina.

Before that, I was in a children's institution in Baltimore, and I needed to come home to be with my mother. She was by herself and she needed somebody with her. The others were tied down with babies and husbands and I was the only one who could come. The only job I could find was at Butner Hospital.

HT:Yes, I'm familiar with that.

DC:Yes, well that's where I worked. That 00:40:00was my last job. Prior to that, as I say, I worked in Baltimore, in the Children's Psychiatric Institute, for a number of years, and I liked that a great deal. I didn't have too many changes in social work.

HT:And when did you retire from social work?

DC:I retired from my assignment in New York.

HT:Do you recall which type of work you found more rewarding, working for the Red Cross or doing social work?

DC:I enjoyed the Red Cross more. In social work, you listen to people's problems and that was hard. You tried to help them find the right solutions.

HT:And I think the Red Cross sounds like it was probably more fun.

DC:Yes, it was fun. Some days I played pinochle all day long. Some guys would have to leave for appointments or something and you'd take his place and you'd be there with different people all day long, playing pinochle.

HT:Well, I don't have any more questions. Is there anything that I didn't cover or didn't ask that you can recall, that you'd like to add to your interview about your days at the Red Cross?

DC:I think you covered it very well. I'm sorry my memory wasn't better.

HT:Well, Miss Coley, I do appreciate you talking with me this evening. It's been a lot of fun, yes.

DC:Well, I enjoyed it.

HT:Brought back a lot of memories for you, I'm sure.

DC:Yes, it did.

HT:Thanks again. [End of Interview]